Old FV12 with AA S1-V2's

[moonthink]

Hi, I recently picked up an old used but good condition Rythmik FV12 and I am trying to integrate it with my newer Sierra 1-V2's.

I would love any and all info related to:
1) specific info about this older sub, and what settings work best
2) recommended crossover settings
3) help with determining/setting correct phase/delay

My setup is:
Chi-fi preamp (I like seeing volume numbers since it is hard to see the amp's knob, and having bass/treble controls, though usually both set at zero) to Cambridge Audio CXA61.
FV12 Sub is front right, between center console and R speaker. Sierra are on 24" stands, 2' from front wall, and 3-4' from side walls, about 7'-6" apart, and roughly same distance to MLP.

Current setting on sub are 20hz low extension, medium damping. Level at about 10:30, crossover around 60Hz, Phase at about 8:30 (best I could do by ear). Cambridge's sub out has no crossover adjustment ability.

I do have a umik and REW, but while my neighbors tolerate my music (I listen around 60-65db typically), they complain when I do testing.

It sounds pretty good as is, but still not quite right.
FWIW, I had a newer SVS PB-1000 (non pro) down there before the Rythmik, and I can't believe how much cleaner the sound is with even an old FV12.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice...

[Mag_Neato]

Is it possible to run sweeps with REW while the neighbors are not home?

Without a sweep, you are guessing at where your Sierra's are rolling off and how steep of a rolloff slope. Since you cannot hi pass the Sierra's and they are playing full range, I would want to know that so I could get close to properly integrating the sub at the best crossover frequency. The phase knob is basically a distance adjustment to time align the bass with the mains at the listening position. Once you determine the crossover frequency as mentioned above, if you don't have a sound pressure level meter (You can easily download a SPL app to your phone and use the internal phone mic), you will have to rely on your ears to adjust the phase. That will require playing a test tone of the frequency of the crossover point and adjusting the phase knob until you have the loudest output.

Hope that makes sense!

[racrawford65]

Agree with Ed and you should try to run a sweep. You can do a timing reference with REW between sub and FL (or FR) to tell you how much delay is required (in ms).

Rythmik also has an integration guide. See link below (guide is towards bottom of the page).

Damping and extension are what you prefer, generally. For what it's worth, I use 14 hz and high damping on my E15s

https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html

You may also want to consider adding a miniDSP (Flex is a good choice). You'd probably need to put it between the preamp and the integrated amp. In this way, you can bass manage the Sierra's (e.g. add cross-over) so you aren't getting "double" bass. You can then also EQ sub bass. When I had a separate 2 channel system, I used one for this purpose. I also had set up 4 configurations - 1 for 2.1 with flat bass EQ, 2.1 with house curve, 2.0 with bass eq, 2.0 no eq

[curtis]

I agree with all of the suggestions made so far.

For what it's worth, I use 14 hz and high damping on my E15s

That's how my F15HP is set as well.

[racrawford65]

I agree with all of the suggestions made so far.


That's how my F15HP is set as well.

Only 1 sub?

[curtis]

Only 1 sub?

yeah yeah...don't rub it in.
I have another one, just not a good place to put it.
So, loaned it to a buddy. He loves it so much, I don't think I will ever see it again.

[moonthink]

Is it possible to run sweeps with REW while the neighbors are not home?

Without a sweep, you are guessing at where your Sierra's are rolling off and how steep of a rolloff slope. Since you cannot hi pass the Sierra's and they are playing full range, I would want to know that so I could get close to properly integrating the sub at the best crossover frequency. The phase knob is basically a distance adjustment to time align the bass with the mains at the listening position. Once you determine the crossover frequency as mentioned above, if you don't have a sound pressure level meter (You can easily download a SPL app to your phone and use the internal phone mic), you will have to rely on your ears to adjust the phase. That will require playing a test tone of the frequency of the crossover point and adjusting the phase knob until you have the loudest output.

Hope that makes sense!

There are a lot of people living next door, and they always seem to be home! Oh well, maybe I'll go have a conversation with them and ask when a good time might be.

The crossover seems easy enough to do by ear (just dial it up until the upper base starts to resonate/over-modulate, then dial it back a hair. Listen and repeat), though I'm sure I could get more accurate with the sweeps.

I relied on my ears for the phase already -- listening for loudest output, and I think it's close. I might try the reverse polarity trick tonight and see if that gets me the same result (wire speakers in reverse, then listen for the bass to get QUIET at the crossover point).

I have an SPL meter app on my phone, and it seems pretty accurate compared to my actual SPL meter at work (I'm a live theater technician/designer), but it's not at all accurate with deep bass. For example, at a recent Peter Gabriel concert, it read 85-88db consistently, but I could feel bass in my body, so it must be a limited frequency range.

Thanks for the reply/advice!

[moonthink]

Agree with Ed and you should try to run a sweep. You can do a timing reference with REW between sub and FL (or FR) to tell you how much delay is required (in ms).

Rythmik also has an integration guide. See link below (guide is towards bottom of the page).

Damping and extension are what you prefer, generally. For what it's worth, I use 14 hz and high damping on my E15s

https://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html

You may also want to consider adding a miniDSP (Flex is a good choice). You'd probably need to put it between the preamp and the integrated amp. In this way, you can bass manage the Sierra's (e.g. add cross-over) so you aren't getting "double" bass. You can then also EQ sub bass. When I had a separate 2 channel system, I used one for this purpose. I also had set up 4 configurations - 1 for 2.1 with flat bass EQ, 2.1 with house curve, 2.0 with bass eq, 2.0 no eq

I will try to run a sweep at some point. The sub is right next to the R speaker, so in theory the delay should be fairly minimal, right?

I read the integration guide, but I felt like it didn't do the best explanation of what each setting specifically does and why set it a certain way.

I have been considering the Flex actually, I have this weird feeling that if I bought it, they'd release a newer/better version the following week! Just my luck... I will most-likely get it at some point, after I have exhausted every option/variable that I can do myself. For me, half the fun of speakers/sound systems is figuring out how to make them sing!

I wonder, the FV12 has speaker level in-and-outs, do you think it also has high pass in this?

Thanks for the reply and advice!

[moonthink]

I agree with all of the suggestions made so far.


That's how my F15HP is set as well.

I had it set to that initially, but when I watched POOR THINGS the other day, there's one section of music with a single instrument, possibly a contra basson? Anyway it had ridiculously low output. I also saw the film in a movie theater and it didn't distort, but my FV12 didn't like it and made some weird sounds (port chuffing maybe?). I keep my main volume pretty low on the amp and sub (around 10:30-11:00 on the knob). Anyway, my system is 80% music and 20% movies/games, so I really don't need sub 20Hz content. That's why I changed it to 20/medium.

[moonthink]

yeah yeah...don't rub it in.
I have another one, just not a good place to put it.
So, loaned it to a buddy. He loves it so much, I don't think I will ever see it again.

My previous sub was an SVS PB-1000 (non pro), and initially I thought to use both, but they sound so different, and I'm having enough trouble getting just the one sub dialed in to perfection. Also, I don't need the extra output, and typically I'm the only one down there, so I don't need better coverage either. Since I haven't measured, I'm not sure about nulls or modes, but I haven't heard anything that would make me suspect a problem there.