The Tower Discussion Thread!

[davef]

With our first set of towers being delivered today, I thought it was time to dedicate a thread to our exciting new loudspeaker.

I will do my best to post as much information as possible and answer as many questions as I am able.

But first a few pictures (sorry for the bad quality on this first set of shots)

[davef]

Attached is an in-room frequency response measurement taken in our listening room. The microphone distance is 2 meters and the speaker is positioned 3 feet in front of the wall behind it.

A few important comments:

1. The two large dips (one at 70Hz and the other at 250Hz) are room reflections and should be ignored.

2. Note the incredibly flat frequency response and impressive high frequency extension. In our well treated listening room and at 2 meters distance, the high frequency response is -3dB at 27kHz. 1" and even smaller soft dome tweeters are typically at least -10dB at 20kHz @ 1 meter in-room - and as much as -16dB at 2 meters due to high frequency losses.

3. While the speaker has not been designed for deep bass, in-room and positioned so there is little bass reinforcement from the front wall, the speaker is -3dB at 34Hz. Anechoic bass response is -3dB at 41Hz.

4. Typical in-room sensitivity is 92dB at 2.83v at 1 meter. Anechoic sensitivity is 89dB at 2.83v at 1 meter.

5. Minimum impedance = 4 ohms with a nominal impedance of 6 ohms. The impedance response is smooth and free of any artifacts (wrinkles) which would indicate potential resonance problems, thanks in part to the bamboo cabinet and exceptional transducers :) In addition, the electrical phase angle never exceeds +/- 30 degrees which means despite the 4 ohm minimum impedance, the speaker will work well with most 8 ohm rated receivers.

And just a few more specifications:

Shipping weight = 57 pounds each (although this may change slightly as we are still finalizing the packaging details.)

Dimensions = 43" high x 7.5" wide x 10.5" deep

Loudspeaker power handling = massive! ;) (we have yet to reach the speaker's limits but I would estimate it to be about 350 clean watts)

[Reflections1]

Those speakers are beautiful. What color is that considered?? Are you going to post some pictures with other colors that are avilable ? Are these the pictures of Brandon's speakers ?? Sorry for all the questions, but getting excited about what Brandon is going to say about them. I'm not sure if i missed what equipment he would be playing them on.

Thanks Rich

[Strange_Days]

Man, those look nice!! why do they have to look so nice...

[kma100]

Dave,

Thanks for posting the pictures and specs. A few questions:

-Will they be offered in the natural bamboo (like the Sierra's)?
-Is there a center in the works? If not, what would you recommend people use for a matching center...Sierra Nrt?
-Do you have an approximate price or is that still being refined?

Thanks.

[merrymaid520]

Those speakers are beautiful. What color is that considered?? Are you going to post some pictures with other colors that are avilable ? Are these the pictures of Brandon's speakers ?? Sorry for all the questions, but getting excited about what Brandon is going to say about them. I'm not sure if i missed what equipment he would be playing them on.

Thanks Rich

Rich,
For you and anyone else wondering what equipment I will be running these with:
Proceed amp3 for front 3 channels - 150w/ch at 8ohm, 250w at 4ohm
Parasound 2100 preamp with HT bypass & yamaha Rx-v2600 for movies
Squeezebox Touch (source)
Oppo 981 DVD player for SACD & DVD_Audio
Rythmik D-15SE sub EQ'ed very flat with Behringer FD

[curtis]

Drool.....

also because I pretty much know how these will sound...

[kma100]

Drool.....

also because I pretty much know how these will sound...

Curtis - I recall you mentioned you heard a prototype? Have you heard this recent production model as well? Initial reviews were very positive.

[curtis]

Curtis - I recall you mentioned you heard a prototype? Have you heard this recent production model as well? Initial reviews were very positive.
Unfortunately, I haven't. My schedule has not allowed for it.

[Mag_Neato]

Drool........slober.....wipe chin......repeat!!

Ok, so those look really sexy. I hope someone close to me orders a pair so I can make a new friend!!

[avsnoob10]

Rich,
For you and anyone else wondering what equipment I will be running these with:
Proceed amp3 for front 3 channels - 150w/ch at 8ohm, 250w at 4ohm
Parasound 2100 preamp with HT bypass & yamaha Rx-v2600 for movies
Squeezebox Touch (source)
Oppo 981 DVD player for SACD & DVD_Audio
Rythmik D-15SE sub EQ'ed very flat with Behringer FD

Brandon: If I remember correctly you are using Sierra-1s (non-Nrt) as your surrounds, how do you have them placed - wall mounted or on stands? After few emails back and forth to Dave and advice from Cutris I might just stick with direct radiating/monopoles for my surrounds instead of dipoles and ideally would like Sierra-1s as surrounds if I go with monopoles to match new towers but not sure about the look of wall mounted Sierra-1s due to their depth.

[merrymaid520]

Brandon: If I remember correctly you are using Sierra-1s (non-Nrt) as your surrounds, how do you have them placed - wall mounted or on stands? After few emails back and forth to Dave and advice from Cutris I might just stick with direct radiating/monopoles for my surrounds instead of dipoles and ideally would like Sierra-1s as surrounds if I go with monopoles to match new towers but not sure about the look of wall mounted Sierra-1s due to their depth.

You are correct. They are wall mounted using the Btech77 mounts. They make great surround speakers for Multi Ch music and Blu-ray movies.

See this thread for more info and pics....
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3896

[ronbo]

The midrange looks very similar to a Tangband full range driver.

[ebh]

super sexy without the grills. that's gotta be how you rock it. i look forward to pics of them in natural, but i think it's piano black for me this time.

[Mag_Neato]

UPS has gotta be there soon??!!!

:D

[hearing specialist]

:eek:

Very nice and I will be the first to offer my home for some R&D listening time. :D

I have the very last picture from the first post as my external wallpaper on my phone. My previous pic was the Sierra 1 so I'm gonna have to pull rank and let the tower pic run the show for now...

[merrymaid520]

UPS has gotta be there soon??!!!

:D

Update...

Me sitting here twiddling my thumbs nervously awaiting for the "brown truck" to arrive:) I have been told by my "usual" driver, an ETA of around 4-5pm Central time, not long now.

[Mag_Neato]

Central time? Rats!! I will be either getting ready for, or actually having dinner with my lady to celebrate 4 years of unwedded bliss!:D

I will definitely be checking in later this evening!:cool:

[merrymaid520]

Central time? Rats!! I will be either getting ready for, or actually having dinner with my lady to celebrate 4 years of unwedded bliss!:D

I will definitely be checking in later this evening!:cool:

Congrats is in order to you! I can see it now, "Honey, let me go fill that wine glass for you" as you sneak into the office and view the "Tower Thread".
:D

[GirgleMirt]

Wow... Congrats Dave on a very fine, classy looking speaker! The piano black finished bases also look great and seem to add quite a nice touch, really looks top notch...

Any ETA on the for sale date? How much is shipping going to run on these? Any guesstimates for shipping costs to Canada?

[merrymaid520]

We have touchdown!!!!

Reporting back in 2 weeks......

[ebh]

We have touchdown!!!!

Reporting back in 2 weeks......

:p

pics or it didn't happen!

[curtis]

We have touchdown!!!!

Reporting back in 2 weeks......
2 weeks!????

That's not going to work!

[Strange_Days]

We have touchdown!!!!

Reporting back in 2 weeks......

2 weeks ... I was thinking more like every two minutes would be more like it :p

[kma100]

We have touchdown!!!!

Reporting back in 2 weeks......

You have a great responsibility ...

30 minute updates should work.

[davef]

Those speakers are beautiful. What color is that considered??

This pair is a very unique true piano black. What makes them unique is that they are 100% hand finished, hand buffed Made in the USA - and the finish is a polyester resin based piano black. Most piano black finishes (especially from Asia) are polyurethane. Polyester buffs to a higher sheen and is harder. The finishing on this pair was completed by an experienced guitar finishing company.

Regrettably, this is a very expensive option and will add $700 to the introductory base price of $1898/pair.


Are you going to post some pictures with other colors that are avilable ?

Yes, we intend to post pictures of the various finishes that we are able to offer.

As of right now, the standard finish options will be:

Natural
Espresso (with a satin sheen, not nearly as glossy as the Sierra-1)
Dark Cherry (with the same satin sheen)
High Gloss Black (not as perfect a mirror finish as the true piano black, which is nearly a perfect mirror)
Satin Black
Black Matte (this is a textured black matte paint, extremely durable and very attractive) It is the same finish that is used for M&K speakers

Because we are building these locally, we are able to offer various custom options (various veneers, different color paints such as white) for additional fees.


Are these the pictures of Brandon's speakers ??

Yep.... And I miss them :(

[GaryB]

Hi, Dave. How would the "true piano black" and "high gloss black" finishes on the towers compare to the "piano black" finish on the Sierra-1?

[curtis]

OK...it's been 90 minutes. Where did he go?

[merrymaid520]

OK...it's been 90 minutes. Where did he go?

Technical difficulties with the new speaker wire not fitting into the binding posts on my proceed amp, problem solved now!

Almost there, needed a beer too!
:p

[ripcordaff]

This pair is a very unique true piano black. What makes them unique is that they are 100% hand finished, hand buffed Made in the USA - and the finish is a polyester resin based piano black. Most piano black finishes (especially from Asia) are polyurethane. Polyester buffs to a higher sheen and is harder. The finishing on this pair was completed by an experienced guitar finishing company.

Regrettably, this is a very expensive option and will add $700 to the introductory base price of $1898/pair.



Wait, so you have two gloss blacks? The "True piano" and the "high gloss black", with the True piano costing a whopping $700 more?

[indulger]

I already told my wife what next years state tax refund is going to!! She was so overwhelmed with excitement, she replied...."Whatever". I'm taking that as a definite "OK".

[davef]

Wait, so you have two gloss blacks? The "True piano" and the "high gloss black", with the True piano costing a whopping $700 more?

That is correct... High gloss black is not "piano" black -- the difference being that piano black is a mirror finish, such that it will reflect back nearly every detail just like a mirror. High gloss black does not have the same degree of reflectivity, reflected detail is somewhat blurry.

A "Made in the USA" true piano black finish is nearly impossible to come by. It is extremely labor intensive and uses chemicals that require very specific environmental licensing, especially here in California. For example, I believe Salk charges $1400 for the option. The $700 additional fee we are charging has no added profit in it for us -- it simply covers the cost of the process and the additional handling required.

It was also our desire to manufacture the speaker cabinets here in the USA.

That being said, since piano black is a very popular finish and the $700 increase in price is hard to swallow, we are considering having our Sierra-1 cabinet maker produce piano black cabinets for us which will reduce the cost of this option dramatically. This will take several months though...

[ebh]

Wait, so you have two gloss blacks? The "True piano" and the "high gloss black", with the True piano costing a whopping $700 more?

and it looks like two less glossy blacks as well. Very interesting. Can't wait to see pictures and get cost details for the various options.

[merrymaid520]

Well I have them up and running and only had a little bit of time to listen. I wont get into details until I have some serious time with them. So far, very impressive. What jumped out at me from the first track was the imaging, detail and timbre accuracy, then male vocals.

Dave....
They arrived safely and the finish is superb!

Stay tuned. I have all day tomorrow to do more tweaking and evaluations.

So far I'm:):D:p

[davef]

Dave....
They arrived safely and the finish is superb!

Thanks for the update, now I can breathe a bit easier :)

Let me know how the packaging stood up to UPS and if the foam wrap fully protected the finish.

Also, be sure to run them full range when you get the chance and let me know your thoughts on the bass response.

I agree, the imaging and detail is fantastic and many others have commented on how well they reproduce vocals. Don't be afraid to turn them up :D

[merrymaid520]

Thanks for the update, now I can breathe a bit easier :)

Let me know how the packaging stood up to UPS and if the foam wrap fully protected the finish.

Also, be sure to run them full range when you get the chance and let me know your thoughts on the bass response.

I agree, the imaging and detail is fantastic and many others have commented on how well they reproduce vocals. Don't be afraid to turn them up :D

No problem. Let me do a real thorough inspection of the finish tomorrow to make sure for you. Right now with my Parasound 2100 preamp they are running crossed over at 80Hz, my only option is this or full range. I will experiment with both, but will ultimately go with 80hz having the Rythmik doing the lows:)

More feedback to come tomorrow!

[davef]

No problem. Let me do a real thorough inspection of the finish tomorrow to make sure for you. Right now with my Parasound 2100 preamp they are running crossed over at 80Hz, my only option is this or full range. I will experiment with both, but will ultimately go with 80hz having the Rythmik doing the lows:)

More feedback to come tomorrow!

If you are going to use the towers with the D15, I strongly recommend a lower crossover setting. The mid-bass and punch of the towers is excellent and I had better results integrating the towers with a Rythmik sub at 50Hz. For most music, I preferred the towers without a sub.

Unlike the Sierra-1, because of the dedicated mid-woofer and it being in its own sealed enclosure within the cabinet, removing deep bass from the tower will not result in any noticeable improvement to the midrange.

[merrymaid520]

If you are going to use the towers with the D15, I strongly recommend a lower crossover setting. The mid-bass and punch of the towers is excellent and I had better results integrating the towers with a Rythmik sub at 50Hz. For most music, I preferred the towers without a sub.

Unlike the Sierra-1, because of the dedicated mid-woofer and it being in its own sealed enclosure within the cabinet, removing deep bass from the tower will not result in any noticeable improvement to the midrange.

Based on my only 2 options within my preamp for music, would you recommend full range then over 80hz? With movies, I can select 60hz through my yamaha receiver so that won't be an issue.

[curtis]

I say full range, but try both.

[ebh]

I think these towers are crying out for full range for music. I generally preferred my sierras full range (though do not have a Rythmik....yet) so I can only imagine how much better the towers will be.

[Peen]

Very nice! So they are all 5.25" Speakers? If anyone compares these to Energy RC towers let me know how they do :)

[GARY410]

Hello everyone! I'm the new guy lol.I must say those speakers are very nice.I was wondering is their a ETA on these Badboys our pre-order? Thanks for your time.

[Mag_Neato]

I say run them full range with the sub filling in the bottom, especially if 80hz is the lowest crossover you can go. My receiver, with Audyssey MultEQ set my Sierra's up as large with the sub running at the same time. I naturally changed it to small, but I use 60Hz crossover which is the lowest I can go.

[merrymaid520]

I say run them full range with the sub filling in the bottom, especially if 80hz is the lowest crossover you can go. My receiver, with Audyssey MultEQ set my Sierra's up as large with the sub running at the same time. I naturally changed it to small, but I use 60Hz crossover which is the lowest I can go.

Sounds like the way to go! I will change the Parasound 2100 preamp to run them full range and for movies through the yamaha receiver, I already lowered the crossover to 60Hz and kept them set at small. I plan to take some in room measurements with REW and my RS SPL meter later today as well to make sure my Rythmik sub is still blending well with the towers.

[mariob33]

Sounds like the way to go! I will change the Parasound 2100 preamp to run them full range and for movies through the yamaha receiver, I already lowered the crossover to 60Hz and kept them set at small. I plan to take some in room measurements with REW and my RS SPL meter later today as well to make sure my Rythmik sub is still blending well with the towers.

we need pictures..glorious 10MP pictures and we need them fast....:D

[Jonnyozero3]

Nice! These look fantastic. I can't wait to get my hands on a pair. :)

Dave - any updates on the center channel would be welcome as well!

[merrymaid520]

Ok boys,
Some eye candy:) I admit my camera is just a basic canon, nothing special. The pics turned out OK.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6149.jpg
I had to poke a little fun at the Salk owners who always photgraph the UPS/Fedex truck pulling up:p

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6150.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6152.jpg
Bought some bulk speaker wire from Ascend
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6154.jpg
Gloves, check!
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6157.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6155.jpg
Response graph

[merrymaid520]

More pics....
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6153.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6156.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6168.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6166.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6163.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6161.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/IMG_6169.jpg

Enjoy!

[mariob33]

More pics....

Enjoy!

man those are some sweet looking speakers.:eek: I just drooled all over my keyboard..:o

[merrymaid520]

Hey guys,
Below are some measurements I took up to 2000Hz using my RS SPL and REW. I decided to recalibrate my Rythmik sub using my BFD. The towers are run full range with the 2100 preamp. With the Yamaha receiver I have them crossed at 60Hz. All graphs smoothed to 1/12.

Measurement with my preamp running both L&R towers and sub
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/Towerswith2100preampfullrange.jpg

Measurement with Yamaha receiver running both L&R towers with sub
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/TowerswithYamahareceiver.jpg

Previous measurement with Ascend Sierras crossed over at 80Hz through the same preamp, only difference other than the speakers is the new acoustic 4" panels behind them. Could this be why I cannot achieve as flat a response with the new Towers?
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/Sierras80hzwith2100.jpg

Suggestions? I did try messing with the variable phase setting on the Sub and could not do any better.
Thanks,
Brandon

[TomK]

WOW! What can Brown do for you? Congratulations on your new Towers!! I've been waiting (not patiently) for the Towers to finally launch. How long will you take to break them in? I'd be willing to bet they sound pretty darned good right now. Looks like you have killer system. Now, what to watch? I'll tell you if you want a full blast sound track try "Inception".

Dave if you're reading this; when will the web site have the photos and ordering information like the other speakers? These are going to sell like hot cakes!
My best,
Tom

[merrymaid520]

WOW! What can Brown do for you? Congratulations on your new Towers!! I've been waiting (not patiently) for the Towers to finally launch. How long will you take to break them in? I'd be willing to bet they sound pretty darned good right now. Looks like you have killer system. Now, what to watch? I'll tell you if you want a full blast sound track try "Inception".

Dave if you're reading this; when will the web site have the photos and ordering information like the other speakers? These are going to sell like hot cakes!
My best,
Tom

Thanks Tom! I believe Dave did his share of breaking them in before he sadly departed with them. It was the only pair and he tried to talk me out of buying them;):D They do sound fantastic! My setup is complete for some time now. I do have Inception on Blu-ray, unwatched....should make for a good demo.

Take care,
Brandon

[curtis]

how about measurements without a sub?

[merrymaid520]

how about measurements without a sub?

Hopefully tomorrow! I can only measure up to about 3000hz, the RS meter maxes out around there.

[merrymaid520]

how about measurements without a sub?

Here are all sorts of new measurements from today.
I messed around with the phase settings on the Rythmik sub and did some more EQing on the BFD. The results were better this time around for both the Yamaha receiver and 2100 preamp. All measurements with the sub playing are with it EQ'ed.
Graph of Towers through 2100 preamp with and without the sub playing.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/graphoftowers2100withandwithoutsubto250hz.jpg
Same graph but measured up to 3000hz
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/graphof2100towerswithandwithoutsubfullrange.jpg
Graph of all 2100 preamp measurements:
Colors:
Red - both towers no sub
Yellow - Left tower no sub
Brown - Left tower with sub
Green - right tower no sub
Purple - right tower with sub
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/graph2100fullrangeallmeasurements.jpg

Graphs of all Yamaha receiver measurements - using 60hz crossover, Towers set to small, any measurements with sub playing is EQ'ed.
Colors:
Red - Both towers and sub
Yellow - both towers no sub
Brown - left tower no sub
Green - Left tower with sub
Purple - right tower no sub
Blue - right tower with sub
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/graphyamaha60hzallmeasurements.jpg


I think this time around, the mains and sub are blending much better. Thoughts?

Brandon

[curtis]

So with the 2100, no matter if you have the sub on or off, the speakers are playing full range?

Can you do an overlay of the Yamaha and Parasound with no sub?

[Bill Mac]

Brandon,

Are using YPAO with the Yamaha? The big question is how do the Towers sound;)?

Bill

[merrymaid520]

So with the 2100, no matter if you have the sub on or off, the speakers are playing full range?

Can you do an overlay of the Yamaha and Parasound with no sub?

Yes, with the 2100 preamp, the towers run full range with or without the sub playing. The 2100 has two options, one connection for a 80hz XO with the mains or another connection for full range (the one Im using). No other adjustments other than the sub XO which is set around 80hz as well.

Give me second to post the overlay graph for you.

[merrymaid520]

Brandon,

Are using YPAO with the Yamaha? The big question is how do the Towers sound;)?

Bill

Bill, No I never use any YPAO etc, I only have ever level matched with my SPL meter and EQ'ed the sub with the BFD.

They sound very very good! I will try and put together a more formal review in the next day or so. I may have said this already but the imaging, vocals, and timbre accuracy of instruments are extremely impressive! The towers are by far in another league over my previous non Nrt sierras;)

[merrymaid520]

Curtis,
Here is the Graph showing both towers playing with no sub same settings as above.
Red - 2100 preamp
Yellow - Yamaha
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll4/bbriesath/graphof2100andyamahabothtowersnosub.jpg

[curtis]

That is so strange.....almost a 10dB difference is some areas.

[Sam1000]

Congratulations Brandon...
I had a similar in room response as well with my Sierra (Room treatment is not an option for me.) The picture of the graph posted along with your speaker is really flat though. Along with Towers, I'm waiting for Outlaw 978 to overcome these issues caused by the room.

You mentioned that the Towers are in another league compared to classic Sierra. How do they compare against NRT for mids? I expect the highs to be very comparable.

Enjoy the speakers :-)

[merrymaid520]

That is so strange.....almost a 10dB difference is some areas.

Im not really sure why that is. Both the 2100 and Yamaha were calibrated to 74db on my SPL meter before I did the sweeps.....hmmm. Could it be how each piece handles the info below the crossover point?

[merrymaid520]

Congratulations Brandon...
I had a similar in room response as well with my Sierra (Room treatment is not an option for me.) The picture of the graph posted along with your speaker is really flat though. Along with Towers, I'm waiting for Outlaw 978 to overcome these issues caused by the room.

You mentioned that the Towers are in another league compared to classic Sierra. How do they compare against NRT for mids? I expect the highs to be very comparable.

Enjoy the speakers :-)

Thanks Sam! I have just the three room treatments, all the wife would allow for now:) Not sure if they did much good or not, I have not measured without them yet. The high frequencies cannot be measured through my current SPL meter anyway.

The towers were worth the wait! I only had upgraded one sierra to the Nrt (center one) so comparing is not very ideal. The highs are very similar being the same tweeter, which I very much enjoy. To me so far, the male vocal range and drum type instruments sound fuller on the Towers. The mid range region has more weight to it, more realistic versus the sierra-1 Nrt.

[curtis]

Im not really sure why that is. Both the 2100 and Yamaha were calibrated to 74db on my SPL meter before I did the sweeps.....hmmm. Could it be how each piece handles the info below the crossover point?
No crossover should be set because the speakers are running full range.

It is very strange.

[Allen]

Dave,

Which standard finish option (or options) qualifies for the introductory price of $1898/pair? Do you have a sample of some sort showing the three black options mentioned in post 26?

Does one have to be on a preorder list to qualify for the introductory price, or will the price apply for a limited time after the towers are offered for sale on your website?

Will the towers come with spiked feet and/or other options do make them secure on carpet?

Will the q-plugs for the Sierra-1 also fit the towers’ ports?

I have two Emotiva UPA-1 mono-block amplifiers each rated 350 watts RMS x 1 into 4 ohms. From your comments on the towers’ power handling it would seem I am safe to use the mono-blocks with the towers.

[merrymaid520]

No crossover should be set because the speakers are running full range.

It is very strange.

But not through the Yamaha, its crossed over at 60hz. Does that explain it?

[merrymaid520]

Allen,
I can comment on one of your questions, mine came with spikes but I chose not to use them so I can slide them around. I would call ascend and be placed on their preorder list, I imagine its growing every day:) I am sure any high powered amp is fine with the towers, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it better to feed them more power then too little and risk clipping the amp and blowing a driver?

[curtis]

But not through the Yamaha, its crossed over at 60hz. Does that explain it?
Yeah...

Run them both no sub, no cross, full range.

[merrymaid520]

Yeah...

Run them both no sub, no cross, full range.

I figured. I put all the measuring equipment away and the wifes relaxing, no more annoying sweeps today:p

I had chosen to cross over the yamaha at 60hz running them small vs large for movies of course, should I disregard that idea and run the towers full range for movies as well? I was always under the impression with the low bass of modern soundtracks, running the front speakers this way may cause issues?

[curtis]

For movies, I would try setting them to small and crossing at 50-60hz. Of course I would check them out fullrange too.

Not sure how serious I would take the measurements with the Radio Shack SPL meter. Good for a general idea of what is going on, but nothing to take too seriously.

On that note, good to see that you are getting low 30's extension without a sub.

[Allen]

Allen,
I can comment on one of your questions, mine came with spikes but I chose not to use them so I can slide them around. I would call ascend and be placed on their preorder list, I imagine its growing every day:) I am sure any high powered amp is fine with the towers, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it better to feed them more power then too little and risk clipping the amp and blowing a driver?

merrymaid520,

Thanks for your advice regarding the spiked feet. I believe you are correct about the Amps, but Dave’s comments in Post 2 got me concerned. I will call Ascend tomorrow regarding the other issues plus determining whether they bill one’s credit card at the time of the preorder or at the time they ship the towers.

[merrymaid520]

merrymaid520,

Thanks for your advice regarding the spiked feet. I believe you are correct about the Amps, but Dave’s comments in Post 2 got me concerned. I will call Ascend tomorrow regarding the other issues plus determining whether they bill one’s credit card at the time of the preorder or at the time they ship the towers.

No problem. Ascend I believe typically never bills your CC until they are ready to ship.

[malaplace]

Nice speakers. I'm really looking forward to the formal launch myself. I agree with Curtis -- much of the odd measurements could be due to the unreliability of the RS SPL meter. When I went to a calibrated mic, I got very different readings. The RS mic appears to be a bit erratic. Nonetheless, please continue to post some listening impressions!

[Mag_Neato]

Damn you!! Damn you all to H*ll!!!:mad:

I just upgraded my Sierra's to the NrT and love them. Now you guys are showing all this tower stuff. Ugh!!:(

So now I have to start a tower trust fund:cool:

[choirbass]

Damn you!! Damn you all to H*ll!!!:mad:

I just upgraded my Sierra's to the NrT and love them. Now you guys are showing all this tower stuff. Ugh!!:(

So now I have to start a tower trust fund:cool:

It's always nice to dream either way ;)

[hearing specialist]

merrymaid, coming from a guy who religously uses my YPAO, if you haven't tried it you have no idea how it will transform the sound of your towers, imo. If your Yammy has the "Front" calibration program I would use that of the 3 choices (Front, Flat, or Natural). You can also set the towers to "Large" and still have them crossed over at 40hz and let your Rythmics take it from 40hz (40hz is lowest setting) down for movies and for PCM 2.0 processing to allow your towers to still rock fullrange. The Parametric program within YPAO is very powerful and exact and using "Front" will allow these to demo their fantastic abilities.

I have countless hours using YPAO and configuration schemes with my Yamaha receiver always trying to extract the best sound and experimenting with the boundaries of the Yamaha processing. I have to fully believe in proper setup to extract the flavor of these awesome towers.


Brian in Bakersfield...

[pegleg]

Damn you!! Damn you all to H*ll!!!:mad:

I just upgraded my Sierra's to the NrT and love them. Now you guys are showing all this tower stuff. Ugh!!:(

So now I have to start a tower trust fund:cool:

This is known as "the gunslinger hypothesis". No matter how fast you are, there's always someone just a little faster. In speaker terms, there is always something newer, better, just a little less/more expensive.
I've also been guilty of upgrading like this, but have decided to stop. Maybe in 5-10 years I'll need something to replace my "old" Sierra. If I can still hear at that time! (Yes, Mr. Neato, I know you're joking. As I am.)

Pegleg

[merrymaid520]

Brian,
Thanks for the comments. My yamaha is the Rx-V2600 and does have YPAO and the "front" setting. I have choosen not to use this approach since I already EQ my Rythmik sub using a RS SPL meter(with the calibration file) and REW. I then make the appropriate adjustments on my Behringer FD to flatten the bass repsonse below 80hz in my room. The other issues above this crossover point are typically room related.

There seems to be two camps on EQing speakers. One says you should treat the room, the source of the issue to begin with, and leave all alone with the speakers freq. respsonse. The second camp believes the Auto calibrations such as Audyssey and YPAO work for adjusting the sound. Since I already level matched all my speakers, EQ'ed the sub, and set distances etc by hand with the RS SPL meter, what more could be done with YPAO?

Just picking your brain:)

Brandon


merrymaid, coming from a guy who religously uses my YPAO, if you haven't tried it you have no idea how it will transform the sound of your towers, imo. If your Yammy has the "Front" calibration program I would use that of the 3 choices (Front, Flat, or Natural). You can also set the towers to "Large" and still have them crossed over at 40hz and let your Rythmics take it from 40hz (40hz is lowest setting) down for movies and for PCM 2.0 processing to allow your towers to still rock fullrange. The Parametric program within YPAO is very powerful and exact and using "Front" will allow these to demo their fantastic abilities.

I have countless hours using YPAO and configuration schemes with my Yamaha receiver always trying to extract the best sound and experimenting with the boundaries of the Yamaha processing. I have to fully believe in proper setup to extract the flavor of these awesome towers.


Brian in Bakersfield...

[GaryB]

Brandon, when you get a chance could you please measure the height of the binding posts above the floor? From Dave's pics I would estimate ~ 18" but an exact measurement would help.

Speaker cable considerations... :)

[hearing specialist]

Awesome!!! Here we go...

I would calibrate using the "Front" but not include your subs in the calibration. You would need to unplug the patch cords to them so YPAO cannot sense them or trigger them to come on, even if you have the bass set within the receiver to only be "Front" it will still turn the subs on. Unplug the patch cord! You will hear a completely different sound out of your mains doing this allowing YPAO to do its magic mainly on your towers and forcing your rears to mimic their performance as well, win, win. I am so confident in it because the "Front" just focuses on the problems while still allowing the mains to exercise their talents. All of this I believe is necessary to hear what the leader of this fine company has intended thru proper design and engineering. It's all about extracting all its designed to do within your listening space. Time alignment is too powerful to ignore. My opinion based on tried and true experimentation with the YPAO systems.

Yes treating the room is important, but also use of existing Parametric assistance can't be argued either. If it doesn't sound better I will allow you to poke me in the eye and kick me in the junk!:D

[merrymaid520]

Brandon, when you get a chance could you please measure the height of the binding posts above the floor? From Dave's pics I would estimate ~ 18" but an exact measurement would help.

Speaker cable considerations... :)

You got it! When I get home today, I will take a look.

Brandon

[merrymaid520]

Awesome!!! Here we go...

I would calibrate using the "Front" but not include your subs in the calibration. You would need to unplug the patch cords to them so YPAO cannot sense them or trigger them to come on, even if you have the bass set within the receiver to only be "Front" it will still turn the subs on. Unplug the patch cord! You will hear a completely different sound out of your mains doing this allowing YPAO to do its magic mainly on your towers and forcing your rears to mimic their performance as well, win, win. I am so confident in it because the "Front" just focuses on the problems while still allowing the mains to exercise their talents. All of this I believe is necessary to hear what the leader of this fine company has intended thru proper design and engineering. It's all about extracting all its designed to do within your listening space. Time alignment is too powerful to ignore. My opinion based on tried and true experimentation with the YPAO systems.

Yes treating the room is important, but also use of existing Parametric assistance can't be argued either. If it doesn't sound better I will allow you to poke me in the eye and kick me in the junk!:D

You are very convincing:) I will give it a whirl using the techniques you mentioned above. Can I just turn off the sub or do I have to unplug the sub cable from the Yamaha? I am also debating on whether or not to buy a better mic/preamp combo for taking more accurate measurements plus the RS meter only is accurate up to around 5Khz. I might not like what I find though(room issues):(

Thanks.

[hearing specialist]

Since the auto (turn on) feature for sub is signal based I would turn them off but more importantly and a must do is unplugging the rca's from either the sub itself or receiver. I'm sure it's easier just to do it at the sub amp. You want YPAO focusing on your mains and rears/surrounds only.

Use the mic engineered for YPAO from Yamaha when calibrating and i'm sure you will but just wanted to be sure. I've spent a bunch of time e-mailing Yamaha engineers about the supplied mic and YPAO boundaries. It really is a good system and when I upgrade to the Aventage 3000 receiver that will have their best calibration system with the ability to see what its fixed and adjust off of it by taking the Parametric calibration and then copying it straight into the manual side and tweak till your hearts content.

Sourcing a better mic for REW is always good and the Dayton mic is a good choice and wife friendly (cost), fwiw. There appears to be a lady in your life based on one of your pics, how does she like them and curious what her first reaction to them was???

If I could just figure a solution for the WAF... I would be a rich man...:D

[malaplace]

Brian,
Thanks for the comments. My yamaha is the Rx-V2600 and does have YPAO and the "front" setting. I have choosen not to use this approach since I already EQ my Rythmik sub using a RS SPL meter(with the calibration file) and REW. I then make the appropriate adjustments on my Behringer FD to flatten the bass repsonse below 80hz in my room. The other issues above this crossover point are typically room related.

Just picking your brain:)

Brandon

I'd be careful putting too much stock in the RS SPL meter with the calibration file. When I calibrated my sub using a more well regarded calibrated mic, I got much different (and better) results, even on the low end frequencies for sub calibration, which supposedly the RS SPL meter is decent at measuring.

[scape]

I have yet to read thru this whole thread; but first things first: the speaker looks beautiful, Dave-- great job! the ~34hz - ~27khz is also amazing, I'm curious how you go about fixing some of those dips, but as a whole that's amazing.
anyone plan on wiring in a series pair per channel? ;D

[merrymaid520]

Brandon, when you get a chance could you please measure the height of the binding posts above the floor? From Dave's pics I would estimate ~ 18" but an exact measurement would help.

Speaker cable considerations... :)

Gary,
15.25" from carpet to binding posts

[curtis]

I have yet to read thru this whole thread; but first things first: the speaker looks beautiful, Dave-- great job! the ~34hz - ~27khz is also amazing, I'm curious how you go about fixing some of those dips, but as a whole that's amazing.
anyone plan on wiring in a series pair per channel? ;D
What dips?

[GaryB]

Gary,
15.25" from carpet to binding posts
Thanks, Brandon... much appreciated.

[merrymaid520]

Since the auto (turn on) feature for sub is signal based I would turn them off but more importantly and a must do is unplugging the rca's from either the sub itself or receiver. I'm sure it's easier just to do it at the sub amp. You want YPAO focusing on your mains and rears/surrounds only.

Use the mic engineered for YPAO from Yamaha when calibrating and i'm sure you will but just wanted to be sure. I've spent a bunch of time e-mailing Yamaha engineers about the supplied mic and YPAO boundaries. It really is a good system and when I upgrade to the Aventage 3000 receiver that will have their best calibration system with the ability to see what its fixed and adjust off of it by taking the Parametric calibration and then copying it straight into the manual side and tweak till your hearts content.

Sourcing a better mic for REW is always good and the Dayton mic is a good choice and wife friendly (cost), fwiw. There appears to be a lady in your life based on one of your pics, how does she like them and curious what her first reaction to them was???

If I could just figure a solution for the WAF... I would be a rich man...:D

Ignore my previous post here....I figured it out. With the yamaha setting the front speakers to large, I have a huge suckout below 30hz. It looked as if the sub was not running but I believe the towers low bass when set to large was canceling out the subs bass in that same freq area.

[hearing specialist]

OK, if you ran with the sub on you will need to go thru the receiver setup to the "Levels" section and scroll thru until you find "SUB". You will notice that YPAO will turn sub level almost all the way down. Re-adjust the sub level to whatever you like, half signal or whatever. If your sub is super efficient it will do that or in your case super awesome.

Running YPAO without sub: You will need to go to the "Configure" section within "Setup" and you will see that "Bass" will be set to "Fronts". Your choices should be SWR, Front, or Both. Re-set "BASS" to "SWR" and re-plug in your signal cable and should be good to go with however your subs were calibrated.

[merrymaid520]

What I chose to do is save both the YPAO configuration and my original one in the yamaha's memory and do some listening. Of course I need to change the YPAO setting of my front speakers from Large to small to eliminate that huge suckout.

Brian,
The wife said "wow those are big" when she first saw them but she's a great sport in supporting my audio/video obsessions:)

[Eddie Horton]

Dave, and crew, I haven't been on here in a while, but just wanted to stop in and say that those towers look fantastic. My first "real" HT system was put together in 2004 and consisted of 3 CMT-340's and 2 CBM-170's with a HSU VTF-3MkII sub. That system kept me smiling for years. After our daughter was born, the system was sold to unclutter the living room and scale back a little. Over the years, I've continued to work on the downstairs theater and went with mostly pro-audio high sensitivity designs, but I'll never forget the sound of that first "real" system. Many thanks for years of happiness and for getting me hooked on HT that real folks can afford. Continued success!

[Sam1000]

Hi Dave,
Did you have a chance to measure off axis response while the speakers were in the shop?

[davef]

Dave - any updates on the center channel would be welcome as well!

Matching center is in the works :)

[davef]

Hello everyone! I'm the new guy lol.I must say those speakers are very nice.I was wondering is their a ETA on these Badboys our pre-order? Thanks for your time.

The towers are available for pre-order right now. Please send me a PM or an email for full details.

[lugnut]

Please excuse me if I have over looked the specs for the towers, could someone point me to this info or is it to come soon ? Thank You

[merrymaid520]

Please excuse me if I have over looked the specs for the towers, could someone point me to this info or is it to come soon ? Thank You

Did you see page one of this thread? It has just about all the specs;)

[lugnut]

Thank You , I don't know how I missed that !

[Blutarsky]

I would like to read a review of the Towers with a good 2 Ch. system instead of a HT Receiver. I envision them as primarily for music without a Sub.

If anyone in Monterey gets them I would love to hear how they sound.

[merrymaid520]

I would like to read a review of the Towers with a good 2 Ch. system instead of a HT Receiver. I envision them as primarily for music without a Sub.

If anyone in Monterey gets them I would love to hear how they sound.

I might be able to help, although I am not local to you;)

See below.....

[merrymaid520]

Ascend Tower Review

Its been a week and I felt it was time to post some more formal thoughts on the Towers. I have been spending each night after work listening to various tracks, movies, trying different configurations, locations, etc. After about a week of tweaking and of taking measurements using my RS SPL meter and REW, I have them dialed in as best I can for now.

First off I want to say I am not overly experienced in writing my thoughts down in regard to audio reviews. I am not one to go out to various A/V stores and listen to various speakers from different manufacturers. I have instead gone the Internet direct route based on all of the positive reviews from all of you over the years. Plus, I just don’t feel as comfortable going into these stores and sitting there for quite some time listening to music other folks in there may or may not like including the sales folks. To summarize my musical (speaker) resume it would include the following:
Most of the Ascend Acoustic models from the little HTM-200SE’s to the Sierra-1 Nrt’s and everything in between.
Boston Acoustic Towers from about 10 years ago (VR-950’s or something)
Salk Song Towers (Ribbon Tweeter)
Paradigm S8’s, their matching bookshelf, and the Studio 100’s and matching bookshelf as well.
AV123 Towers speakers, 850’s maybe?
Dynaudio Contours (don’t know model)
SVS MTS line of Towers and Bookshelf’s including both first and 2nd versions
Emotiva Bookshelfs
Various other smaller speakers from some of the previous GTG’s I have attended.

On to the goods! I will start out by describing my setup so everyone knows what they are being run off of.
Proceed Amp 3 – 150w @ 8ohms for front three speakers, 250w @ 4ohms per channel (the Towers fall somewhere between 4-6 ohms so I imagine they are being fed over 200w easily)

Parasound 2100 2ch Preamp with HT bypass

Squeezebox Touch - as source playing mostly FLAC files.

Rythmik D-15SE sub EQ’ed pretty flat in room with a Behringer FD and REW.

Ascends bulk 11g speaker wire for front three speakers – nothing fancy here, sorry.

Room is 17’ wide and about 30’ long splitting into an area with a pool table, and it also open up into the Kitchen and hallway. Ceilings are vaulted and peak at about 13’. Speakers are toed in slightly, I sit about 13’ from them, and they are about 9’ apart.

I choose to create a CD / playlist of my personal favorite tracks that I feel were well recorded. I use these 18 tracks for most of the critical listening.
Track list:
Nils Lofgren – Keith don’t go and Man in the Moon
Daryl Stuermer (from genesis) – In too deep & Man on the corner
Dire Straits – Ride across the River
Jesse Cook – Switchback, Virtue, Matisse the cat, Café Mocha
Jack Johnson – Breakdown, Rodeo Clowns, Upside down
Rob Thomas – all that I am
Santana – Corazon Espinado
NIN – Into the void
Fleetwood Mac – Go insane (Live), Seven Wonders, Family Man


To start my review I must publically thank Dave F over at Ascend for all he did for me during the creation of these speakers. I had actually ordered the Salk songtowers and ended up cancelling the order after speaking with Dave one day when he told me he had some Tower ideas being thrown around☺ I opted to wait it out, not knowing it would take over 18 months, but now that I look back, it was well worth the wait. Along the way, he provided me updates and even asked for my feedback(not sure how helpful I was). I probably emailed him weekly asking “are they done yet” ☺ Anyways, he is a perfectionist and made sure every aspect of this design was fully optimized before he would release them. The results definitely exceeded me expectations. Thank you Dave!

Delivery –
The Towers arrived packaged in separate boxes (I took a pic of the UPS truck pulling up just to follow in the footsteps of all the Salk owners over on AC) ☺ Each one double boxed, held in place with foam and wrapped up well.

Finish –

This was maybe one of the largest roadblocks Dave encountered along the way. He originally was shooting for a local CA vendor to do a specific finish and things did not quite work out. He then opted to try another local Guitar finishing company that does a true hand finished Piano Black. The results are stunning! Here is what Dave posted
“This pair is a very unique true piano black. What makes them unique is that they are 100% hand finished, hand buffed Made in the USA - and the finish is a polyester resin based piano black. Most piano black finishes (especially from Asia) are polyurethane. Polyester buffs to a higher sheen and is harder. The finishing on this pair was completed by an experienced guitar finishing company.

Regrettably, this is a very expensive option and will add $700 to the introductory base price of $1898/pair.”

In my opinion, the finish on these look much better than the sierras I have although my sierras were very early run models and things have improved greatly since. They are truly mirror like. Construction - Full bamboo cabinet, which is probably the most inert tower speaker I have felt.

Sound (finally right)
Originally I had them running off my 2100 preamp with a 80hz crossover setting from my previous Sierra setup. Both Dave and others convinced me to run them full range instead (the only other option with the 2100). So I did. If you did not know already, the Towers are a full 3 way speaker design with 2 modified sierra-1 drivers for bass duty only, the same 1” SEAS NrT tweeter used in the upgraded Sierra, and a new 5.25” SEAS midrange driver housed in its own enclosure. With the mid driver in its own enclosure, leaving the 2 two woofers to play deeper bass will not negatively effect the mid range performance, hence me running them full range. With the sierra-1, running them full range with too much bass material will ultimately effect the mids(in a negative way) since the driver has double duty.

First thing I notice, the IMAGING! These things image like crazy and fill my room much better than the sierras. Where as the sierras had a great soundstage and imaged well, the Towers take it to the next level if not more. Vocals float in the air centered between the two speakers while other instruments come from all around. Certain tracks especially the NIN one (why I chose it) is crazy. The opening part has this buzzing sound emanating all around you like surround sound, I had never heard it quite like this until now, very impressed.

Bass – I’ll admit, the sierras have phenomenal bass for such a small bookshelf speaker and only a 5.25” driver. So I had pretty high expectations for the Tower version. I was not disappointed. They are by no means a bass monster, but the bass is very articulate and clean. I can say the bass has more “texture” or detail to it than the transmission line design of the Salks(its easier to remember bass notes over mids or highs) They provide plenty of low end if one chooses to forego a sub. Although I have not heard these directly compared to other speakers, some Towers with larger 6.5” or bigger drivers will probably reach a bit lower. Dave has admitted his design goals were not for extra low bass reproduction. For music, they are more than sufficient, for movies, I still firmly feel a sub is needed to satisfy that extra low material found in many modern Blu ray releases. Lately I have been experimenting with the Rythmik on and off while listening to music. I still prefer the Rythmik playing although without a real accurate sub with servo like the Rythmik, I would lean towards leaving the Towers to run solo. The bass hits hard and low with authority and I have not even come close to their limits.

Power Handling –
Another thing that jumped out at me right off the bat was they require less volume on the preamp, they are obviously more efficient! Plus my amp is probably feeding them quite a bit more juice than the sierras received. So those with mid level receivers, don’t worry, they don’t need much power. Although, they do rate around 4-6 ohms, so make sure your gear can handle it. I have not taken any max in room SPL numbers thus far, but the Towers will blow your socks off if asked to do so. They provide a lot more output than the sierras. I did crank them pretty loud several times and they handled it effortlessly. I know Patrick (warpdrv) can attest to this, the sierras can max out without trying to hard(of course they were being fed over 250w). I highly doubt the Towers will run into this issue, in fact I do not want to find out how LOUD they go.

Mid Range / vocals
This was one of two areas I felt the sierra-1s needed improving on. After first hearing the towers were going to be a true 3-way design, I knew good things were in store. Most of my listening consists of male vocals but so far, all vocals have more weight and detail to them without being “honky” or muddy in any way. The vocals are very airy like and simply fill the room with clean, and very articulate sound. It was much easier to pinpoint the vocals coming out of the sierras when you closed your eyes during listening. Now with the towers, they hover all around from the front soundstage and you don’t get the feeling they are coming from a music “box” per say. I listened to several tracks, which really stood out, and one is the Rob Thomas track I listed. His vocal performance on this track is amazing and the way its portrayed on the Towers is very intoxicating. The vocals move around and it’s a neat experience. I did listen to Stevie Nicks voice on several of the Fleetwood mac tracks and even some Diane Krall not listed above. So far, all sounded improved on over and above the sierra-1 even the Nrt version, which has a little better mid range over the standard version.
After hearing Nuances Songtowers for the first time, I knew what a great midrange sounded like. It was this sound I was hoping for on the new Towers. I cannot say which speaker is better(my audio memory in this regard is not that good), but the Towers provide better mid range and vocal performance over the sierras which I will use as my reference point.

Highs
After first hearing the NrT tweeter on my sierra-1, I was sold. Myself, and a few others I know had always felt the sierra-1 needed a bit more energy and detail up top. I would not call it veiled, but it lacked that sparkle some highly refined tweeters have such as the Be one found in the Paradigm S8’s. The Nrt tweeter is spectacular and closes the gap. I have not heard a ton of soft dome tweets, but this is by far the best one for me to date. Its very airy(sorry to use this term again) and extremely detailed without the negative attributes such as sibilance. Its very snappy if that makes sense. Cymbals and other similar instruments sound much more natural and realistic. The Nrt is far from laid back or veiled, in fact if you prefer that type of sound, you may not like it. I like my highs to be somewhat forward as long as they do not cause any fatigue or harsh sibilance. After hearing live music up close, it always seems the cymbals and etc playing back on my previous speakers could not match the timbre accuracy or “power” of the live performance. With the Towers, I feel like this frequency range is portrayed much more accurately. I will not call them “forward” speakers but rather a very very accurate speaker.
The tracks here that really showed off the Nrt tweeter(and mid woofer) were the acoustic guitar tracks from Nils. This live album was recorded so well. Its unbelievable how realistic the guitar sounds in my room. The intricate plucks, finger sliding, etc is portrayed so well and with so much detail, its very cool. The “Keith don’t go” track is highly recommended if you want to hear some awesome guitar work. Other tracks by Jesse Cook provide some ear candy for highs as well. His work is very unique and it incorporates such a variety of instruments and interesting sound. It really showed off the Towers and their ability to accurately reproduce complex passages. In my mind, I am most critical of a speakers top end as it seems to jump out at me first. Some metal dome tweeters sound too harsh while some soft domes sound veiled. After hearing The Salks Ribbon tweeter, and the Be tweeter form the S8’s, I truly feel the Nrt can hold its own against them.

Conclusion
Overall as you can tell, I am very impressed with the Ascend Towers. They improved upon the two areas I felt the sierras needed work on(mid range & highs). I feel the 3-way design was crucial in improving upon those areas allowing each driver to focus on what its best at. I know 3-way designs often falter due to poor crossover integration among the drivers, but Dave definitely did his homework here and it shows. I would not have the slightest clue on how to “describe” how the proper blending of the drivers sounds, other than I don’t hear it. Simple as that, they sound like one unit, all playing together in harmony☺ If you were to ask me what I like best or what the biggest difference is between it and other speakers such as the sierra-1, I would say the imaging is phenomenal and the detail and accuracy of the mids/highs is very realistic. I wanted to get this review completed before I host a small GTG at my place next weekend. I will be curious to hear others thoughts on them and if they mirror my own impressions.

Thank you guys for sticking with me as I waited for my dream speakers! I feel very privileged to own the first Ascend Tower speakers.

Brandon

[edmondwolfman]

You're not going to be driving through Oklahoma with your towers in your trunk by chance are you:D

[merrymaid520]

You're not going to be driving through Oklahoma with your towers in your trunk by chance are you:D

Had not planned on it:p

[Reflections1]

Brandon , thank you much for spending your time and keeping us informed on your thoughts and impressions of the new towers. Can't wait to hear other's impressions of them. Now on to the questions for Dave. When are they going to be officially released ? Any pictures yet of the other colors ? i am on the pre-order list, is it long ? Maybe a PM back !

Thanks Rich

[edmondwolfman]

Merry, if you had the Songtowers and now had heard the Ascend towers would you be disappointed that you had the Songtowers? Would you sell the Salks and replace them with the Ascend Towers?

[Blutarsky]

A very intriguing seres of opinions. My last Towers had a very low SAF. They were Genesis 6.1s from my friend Arnie Nudell. I think they represented the end of a quest for me. I down sized to Usher Be-718 Monitors with a Martin Logan Depth i Sub. It is a pretty good set up.
I feel it lacks Mid Range warmth and, is a little bright. Thus, The new Ascend Towers appeal to me.
Keep the reviews coming....

[merrymaid520]

Merry, if you had the Songtowers and now had heard the Ascend towers would you be disappointed that you had the Songtowers? Would you seel the Salks and replace them with the Ascent Towers?

Edmond,
I have not heard the ST's in quite a while. I did hear them in my room with my gear. I have a feeling the bass and sheer power handling will be better on the Ascends. As for the highs and mids, I'm not sure its fair to judge without comparing side by side. I will say I did compare the original sierras directly against the ST's while they were at my place. During the comparison the ST's had noticeable better mid range (not leaps/bounds) and a bit more sparkle/detail on top end (Ribbon tweeter). Using that info, the Ascend Towers have quite a bit better mids, much more airy and detailed. The highs have better extension and timbre accuracy as well. The mid driver in the Ascend may give them the edge in the midrange, but I would need too hear them both side by side to judge the highs.

If I can convince my buddy to bring them back down next weekend for my speaker event, that will answer all inquiring minds.

Hope this helps,
Brandon

[edmondwolfman]

Edmond,
I have not heard the ST's in quite a while. I did hear them in my room with my gear. I have a feeling the bass and sheer power handling will be better on the Ascends. As for the highs and mids, I'm not sure its fair to judge without comparing side by side. I will say I did compare the original sierras directly against the ST's while they were at my place. During the comparison the ST's had noticeable better mid range (not leaps/bounds) and a bit more sparkle/detail on top end (Ribbon tweeter). Using that info, the Ascend Towers have quite a bit better mids, much more airy and detailed. The highs have better extension and timbre accuracy as well. The mid driver in the Ascend may give them the edge in the midrange, but I would need too hear them both side by side to judge the highs.

If I can convince my buddy to bring them back down next weekend for my speaker event, that will answer all inquiring minds.

Hope this helps,
Brandon

Now that would be great. You could put those suckers side by side using the same equipment and same music. That would be an apples to apples comparison. Bribe him if you have to:D

Hey Merry, do you like your "touch" as much as I do? I think the touch has been one of the best additions I've done in a long while. I also use a 4th generation iPod (with iPeng) as a wireless remote :D

[merrymaid520]

Now that would be great. You could put those suckers side by side using the same equipment and same music. That would be an apples to apples comparison. Bribe him if you have to:D

Hey Merry, do you like your "touch" as much as I do? I think the touch has been one of the best additions I've done in a long while. I also use a 4th generation iPod (with iPeng) as a wireless remote :D

I will be bribing him with good micro brews;) My other buddy coming has the Salk HT2-TL's which are quite a step up from the Songtowers too. If one of the guys can bring theirs, I would be grateful!

I love the Squeezebox Touch! It replaced the SB3 I had before. I love not having to fiddle with CD's and the analog outs to my preamp sound great, I even tried a PS Audio DacIII to compare, and sold the DAC:)
Forgot, I use ipeng on my iphone as well, works great!

[GirgleMirt]

Hey Merry, do you like your "touch" as much as I do?
omg, take it to pm you two love birds... This isn't the place for that kind of ero-sensual thing! :D


Bass – I’ll admit, the sierras have phenomenal bass for such a small bookshelf speaker and only a 5.25” driver. So I had pretty high expectations for the Tower version. I was not disappointed. They are by no means a bass monster, but the bass is very articulate and clean. I can say the bass has more “texture” or detail to it than the transmission line design of the Salks [.....] The bass hits hard and low with authority and I have not even come close to their limits.
Thanks for the detailed review :) Curious, how much better is the bass on the towers vs the bookshelves? Think I read you had the Paradigms S8, or maybe it was someone else... Anyhow, how would you rate them compared to them, or maybe another speaker besides Salks? (Salks being un-hearable) Thanks!

[merrymaid520]

omg, take it to pm you two love birds... This isn't the place for that kind of ero-sensual thing! :D


Thanks for the detailed review :) Curious, how much better is the bass on the towers vs the bookshelves? Think I read you had the Paradigms S8, or maybe it was someone else... Anyhow, how would you rate them compared to them, or maybe another speaker besides Salks? (Salks being un-hearable) Thanks!

HA! ^^^ He asked first;)

anyway,
Ok Tower vs Sierra. To me, same quality of bass, not much difference in that regard. I credit that to the same drivers and bamboo cabinet. Amount of extra bass is noticeable on the towers but not a large night/day difference. I believe specs say roughly a 3-4db deeper (anechoic) for the towers. Previously there was no way I would run the sierras without a good quality sub, with the towers, I could live without one(music only). Hope that answers your question.

I have heard a friends Sig8's, not at my place, only the bookshelf version here. They IIRC had larger 6.5"-7" drivers and put out a touch more bass. As for other comparisons, I have not really heard many other Tower speakers lately other than the Paradigms and Salks. I would consider them(Ascends) well above average for bass response but not necessarily in the league of really superb highend big towers with real large cabinets, drivers, etc.

Hope that helped somewhat,

Brandon

[edmondwolfman]

omg, take it to pm you two love birds... This isn't the place for that kind of ero-sensual thing! :D


Oh I forgot...this is the tower thread. Let me rephrase. Merry do you like your "touch" as much as I do...WHILE IT'S PLAYING THROUGH YOUR NEW ASCEND TOWERS? :D

[TomK]

OK for the geezers in the group...what the Harry is a "Touch". And do I need it? Would I want it?

[edmondwolfman]

OK for the geezers in the group...what the Harry is a "Touch". And do I need it? Would I want it?

You need it and after you try it you will be glad you have one :cool:

Logitech Touch using Squeezebox server to stream music from your computer and will play HD music with sample rates up to 96kHz/24 bit. It has a touch screen but comes with a remote. It also displays the album art of the music playing (if your music is tagged appropriately). It plays probably 1000's of radio stations and knows by location which ones are local to you.

What I like is to use an iPod touch or iPhone (a device you can add to your wireless network) like Merry and install an app called iPeng. That will work as wireless remote control that you can control from outside, another room or anywhere your wireless network will reach. iPeng displays album art also and you can display by artist, album, genre, year, etc. If you use the search feature it will find and display the music you are searching for most of the time before you are finished typing.

If you don't want to play music on your computers across your network you can plug a USB or SD card directly into the Logitech touch and not even need a network but I use a network as I have thousands of songs.

And to keep in line with this thread you can listen to it through YOUR NEW ASCEND TOWERS! :D

[TomK]

Mr. Wolfman I understand now. Not sure if I want it but I may need it.
As for the Towers; I'm waiting to see a layout on the "Home" page showing photos of the finish choices, listing of specifications, and ordering info. I wonder why the delay.

[Mag_Neato]

Mr. Wolfman I understand now. Not sure if I want it but I may need it.
As for the Towers; I'm waiting to see a layout on the "Home" page showing photos of the finish choices, listing of specifications, and ordering info. I wonder why the delay.

My guess for any delays would be parts availability. The NrT drivers & crossovers were all spoken for and Dave was awaiting the next shipment. That's for the Sierra's. I suspect it is a similar situation for the towers. Remember, the first pair of towers that Merrymaid received are more or less the prototype. I'm sure Dave needs to finalize the little details like cabinet production and parts supply, as well as official packaging. I think he may have underestimated demand, which is a good thing!

[TomK]

Mags,
If they are half as good as I think they are they will sell like hot cakes!
I was extremely happy with my original 340s (not the improved ones.) So I am anticipating really fine speakers. Your answer makes sense. Before putting the final Towers up for sale all the ducks have to be in a row. So I'll be patient.......times up.!

[muzz]

Very Sexy looking....if they sound half as good as they lo......................

[davef]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for all of the delays.

Below are pictures of the initial finishes that will be offered.

Here are Espresso and Dark Cherry, both have a satin finish to them (20 sheen).

These finishes match the Sierra-1, but are not nearly as glossy and don't hide the grain as match.

[davef]

Below is what we are calling our black sand finish. This is a non-reflective, textured black paint that is extremely durable. It is the same finish that is used on M&K speakers. I personally think it is a great finish for the towers, especially for those who will be using the towers in a dedicated theater room.

[davef]

Below are what we are calling our high gloss black (80 sheen) and satin black (20 sheen). Both are a smooth black finish, that upon very close inspection, will reveal a slight amount of the unique grain of the natural wood.

Note: high gloss black is not piano black. Our piano black offers a true mirror-like finish.

We tried to capture the difference in reflectivity between the high gloss and satin finish.

[davef]

Below is the pre-order pricing with the different finish options:

Natural finish (identical to Sierra-1) = $1898/pr + shipping (with satin black base)

Black Sand Finish = $1898/pr + shipping (with black sand base)

Espresso = $1998/pr + shipping (with satin black base)

Dark Cherry = $1998/pr + shipping (with satin black base)

Satin Black = $1998/pr + shipping (with satin black base)

High Gloss Black = $1998/pr + shipping (with high gloss base)

True Piano Black = $2598 + shipping (with piano black base)

Due to the high cost of the American made piano black, we are considering using our Sierra-1 cabinet maker for piano black, which will reduce the retail cost of the piano black option by approximately $500. However, I must say that the quality of the American made piano black (hand buffed polyester resin based) is notably superior. In addition, I would estimate that it will be at least 5 - 6 months before we have any of the lower cost piano black towers available for sale.

For those of you on our tower pre-order list, we will be confirming finish options with you over the next few days. I should mention that it is highly doubtful that we will be able to maintain this initial pre-order pricing. Our profit margin at these intro prices is far below industry standards and that is without factoring in our own internal labor for assembly, testing and packaging.

Thanks again for your patience!

[muzz]

Without having to read 12 pages, do the Towers use the NRT tweeter?
I assume they do, I'm just not digging the pages is all.

Thanks

[merrymaid520]

Without having to read 12 pages, do the Towers use the NRT tweeter?
I assume they do, I'm just not digging the pages is all.

Thanks

Yes, they use the same NrT tweeter and slightly modified sierra-1 drivers.

[ebh]

Just need to decide between high gloss or satin black. Would love to see pictures of the speakers in these finishes from a distance as well.

[Mag_Neato]

So the prices will get a hike soon. That's going to make it that much more unobtainable for me. I am going to have to formulate a plan that will get these into my hands some day. A small savings plan of some sort.

In the mean time I will just have to be content with my Sierra NrT's!

[curtis]

Yes, they use the same NrT tweeter and slightly modified sierra-1 drivers.
and that sweet midrange driver! :)

[curtis]

In the mean time I will just have to be content with my Sierra NrT's!
After finally hearing a pair of NrT's in my room last weekend, that is certainly nothing to feel bad about. :)

[ripcordaff]

Just need to decide between high gloss or satin black. Would love to see pictures of the speakers in these finishes from a distance as well.

I agree.

Dave, would it be possible to see the three blacks from a distance? The best would be the three black towers standing next to each other, but even just swatches of each color from a bit further back would be great! Thanks!

[DaveHo]

What's the regular pricing going to be? What's the time frame for the monster center? I want the towers, but will not purchase until the center is available. I don't want to use a Sierra NRT for center duty.

-Dave

[Allen]

I agree.

Dave, would it be possible to see the three blacks from a distance? The best would be the three black towers standing next to each other, but even just swatches of each color from a bit further back would be great! Thanks!

Concur with ripcordaff.

Before making a decision, I would like to see the difference between the three blacks swatches in one picture.

[muzz]

and that sweet midrange driver! :)

I was looking at that big Sexy myself........ :D

[merrymaid520]

As long as you all order the satin or high glass black, my hand rubbed Piano Black ones will retain higher resale value, thanks in advance.














;)
:D

[edmondwolfman]

What's the regular pricing going to be? What's the time frame for the monster center? I want the towers, but will not purchase until the center is available. I don't want to use a Sierra NRT for center duty.

-Dave

I too wonder what the price increase will be. I had been saving up for the towers since they were announced but a mother and her 2 daughters lost their husband (and father) last year (he was only 43 and retired Air Force) and they lost their heat during 0 degree winter. 3 of my friends and I pitched in and bought them a new heat and air unit so my speaker money went back down to $0. I've started a new speaker fund but I'm pretty sure I won't have enough to get in on the current prices and just hope they don't go up too much.

[Reflections1]

Brandon , your speakers are making me drool, hoping to hear good things about the listening session tomorrow. I really love your speakers but that is a big jump in price, need to see better pictures of the other blacks. Your pictures with the other blacks is what is needed. Hoping for those, please Dave.


Thanks Rich

[RCDAVE]

I too wonder what the price increase will be. I had been saving up for the towers since they were announced but a mother and her 2 daughters lost their husband (and father) last year (he was only 43 and retired Air Force) and they lost their heat during 0 degree winter. 3 of my friends and I pitched in and bought them a new heat and air unit so my speaker money went back down to $0. I've started a new speaker fund but I'm pretty sure I won't have enough to get in on the current prices and just hope they don't go up too much.


Edmond, you're a great man doing that for those people. You may have zero audio funds from it, but at least it was from a great cause. Good on you!:)

[edmondwolfman]

Edmond, you're a great man doing that for those people. You may have zero audio funds from it, but at least it was from a great cause. Good on you!:)

I appreciate that RC, it was the right thing to do. I don't mind donating for a cause at all if I can see it actually doing some good :)

Now I'm on the trail of some speakers and maybe some type of valve preamp down the road :D

[merrymaid520]

Brandon , your speakers are making me drool, hoping to hear good things about the listening session tomorrow. I really love your speakers but that is a big jump in price, need to see better pictures of the other blacks. Your pictures with the other blacks is what is needed. Hoping for those, please Dave.


Thanks Rich

Thanks for the comments Rich! Today should be a blast, looking forward to hearing some great speakers and chatting with good friends. I agree with you all, its tough to determine what black finish based on small pictures of samples. It may be a while before Dave has actual cabinets in each finish but maybe instead he can snap some pics of each sample side by side. Im actually sort of fond on that flatter black textured look, seems very practical and probably wont show as much dust, imperfections, etc.

[edmondwolfman]

Thanks for the comments Rich! Today should be a blast, looking forward to hearing some great speakers and chatting with good friends. I agree with you all, its tough to determine what black finish based on small pictures of samples. It may be a while before Dave has actual cabinets in each finish but maybe instead he can snap some pics of each sample side by side. Im actually sort of fond on that flatter black textured look, seems very practical and probably wont show as much dust, imperfections, etc.

Merry, I too am looking forward to your reviews, especially compared to the Salk Songtowers (if you get them there). The Songtowers were at the top of my list. I was looking at the Sierra-1s but my wife doesn't really like small speakers on stands although the stands from Ascend do make the sierras look like tower speakers. Then came the announcement of the towers so I held off buying anything new and now I may be able to get a review of the Ascend towers and the Songtowers in head to head match :D

[chicubs]

Well I scored tickets first row upper deck behind home. For this I missed the hometown Ascends!! Was it worth it? I'm not sure. How did things go Merrymaid? I'm dying to know. I'm sure you guys had a blast.

[merrymaid520]

Check the GTG thread in here:)

[TomK]

MerryMaid,
Well, I'm on the pre-order. Did you get the foam bungs with your Towers?

[merrymaid520]

MerryMaid,
Well, I'm on the pre-order. Did you get the foam bungs with your Towers?

Congrats!, No, no foam plugs. Not sure if Dave is working on them or not.

[waynes]

what center channel will come with this speaker ? will it be overkill in a14x14 room with hardwood floors?

[merrymaid520]

what center channel will come with this speaker ? will it be overkill in a14x14 room with hardwood floors?

Currently the sierra-1 with the NrT upgrade would match well although a larger center with the mid driver is in the works.

[waynes]

If I order sierra-1 LCR do I just ask for the upgrade prior to shipping. Also in my 14x14 room with hardwood floors would using my 340's as surrounds be over kill.Finally does anyone have experience with the yamaha rx-a2000,onkyo 808 or marantz powering the sierra-1 nrt's.

[Mag_Neato]

I had a Denon AVR with 90 watts per channel, and a 100 watt per channel Onkyo powering my Sierra-1s. I now have a Marantz SR6003 powering my Sierra-NrTs. It sounds great!

[natetg57]

To Waynes, the advantage of the HTM-200's over 170's is that they can be mounted close to the wall since they have no port. I'm doing that in my room and am very satisfied with the way they blend with Sierra LCR.

[TomK]

Waynes,
For what it's worth, I use the 200s for my L/R Surrounds. They do a good job but have a small footprint. If that helps.

[RicardoJoa]

Hi Dave, Im not sure if im understanding your discriptions about the finish of the towers. The available dark cherry and expresso have a satin sheen and are not as glossy as the sierra1. I have the original dark cherry and the finish is quiet glossy, if i decided to buy the towers, the satin sheen wont exactly match the old sierra right? Is it possible to have it finish with that glossy dark cherry? Also, you have mentioned that the these are made locally and can be made with a different finish such as paint or veneer. How much extra for finishing with veneer? Thanks

[davef]

Hi Dave, Im not sure if im understanding your discriptions about the finish of the towers. The available dark cherry and expresso have a satin sheen and are not as glossy as the sierra1. I have the original dark cherry and the finish is quiet glossy, if i decided to buy the towers, the satin sheen wont exactly match the old sierra right? Is it possible to have it finish with that glossy dark cherry? Also, you have mentioned that the these are made locally and can be made with a different finish such as paint or veneer. How much extra for finishing with veneer? Thanks

This is correct, we will be offering a satin sheen with the Espresso and Dark Cherry finish for the towers. These cabinets are being manufactured here in California and due to extremely restrictive environmental regulations (and costs), the same piano gloss sheen of the dark cherry and espresso Sierra-1 will not be offered.

The stain (grain and hue) will match, but the sheen of the towers is not mirror-like. Most consumers I have spoken with do not want the piano gloss sheen of the bookshelves on the towers -- for a large imposing speaker, it simply becomes too reflective.


Also, you have mentioned that the these are made locally and can be made with a different finish such as paint or veneer. How much extra for finishing with veneer?

That is correct. The cost will vary considerably based on the specific veneer and/or paint. I would estimate the minimum charge for any type of customized finish will be at least $200 per speaker cabinet.

[RicardoJoa]

Thanks Dave.

[RicardoJoa]

Dave, is me again. Would like to know what is the best center to match the towers. The oubvious should be the sierra with nrt tweeter, but then the woofer wont exactly match the mid of the tower. How close would they come? Why not use the mid from the tower and have it in TM configuration for the mids?
Thanks

[HiFiDon]

I asked this same question many weeks ago. My guess is the mid range unit in the Tower will just not have the low frequency ability to match the exceptional Nrt tweeter if used alone in the Sierra 1. I would think an entirely new Sierra 1 woofer will have to be designed and maybe a new crossover. I'm sure that will be forthcoming and, hopefully, be an upgrade to the current model but I wouldn't expect it soon. I'm sure Dave has his hands full with getting the current new speakers to market.

[GirgleMirt]

I think I remember reading that there would be a dedicated tower center...

[Mag_Neato]

Dave did mention somewhere about a matching 3 way center speaker. It would need to be fairly tall due to the vertical alignment of the midrange & tweeter. That would be flanked on both sides by the woofers.

I'd say, in the meantime, a Sierra-NrT would perform just fine.

[merrymaid520]

Speaking from experience, the towers blend well with the Sierra Nrt I have as a center.
;)

I will be definitely investigating the yet to be released matching center when its ready.

[RicardoJoa]

I just did a quick shipping quote via fedex and ups over my place (asia) and im suprised of the cost, it will cost 700-800 to ship those towers over. I hope Dave offer other less costly carriers, otherwise the towers can only be in my want list.:(

[TomK]

Dave,
Not to throw a monkey wrench into the gears......but, have you
ever given thought to selling your speakers in kit form for the DIYs out there? You could offer just the parts and enclosure plans, or the complete kit including parts and finished enclosure. Just a thought for saving money. Anyone have an opinion?
I apologize for the monkey wrench!

[curtis]

Dave,
Not to throw a monkey wrench into the gears......but, have you
ever given thought to selling your speakers in kit form for the DIYs out there? You could offer just the parts and enclosure plans, or the complete kit including parts and finished enclosure. Just a thought for saving money. Anyone have an opinion?
I apologize for the monkey wrench!
IMO, the biggest problem with offering complete products and kits/parts is that you now have to support two different kinds of customers. This increases support costs and time.

[davef]

Does one have to be on a preorder list to qualify for the introductory price, or will the price apply for a limited time after the towers are offered for sale on your website?

Yes --- every pair of towers is being built-to-order. It is doubtful we will have much, if any, excess inventory for quite some time.


Will the towers come with spiked feet and/or other options do make them secure on carpet?

Spiked feet are included :)


Will the q-plugs for the Sierra-1 also fit the towers’ ports?

Yes -- the Q-plugs fit.


I have two Emotiva UPA-1 mono-block amplifiers each rated 350 watts RMS x 1 into 4 ohms. From your comments on the towers’ power handling it would seem I am safe to use the mono-blocks with the towers.

Most definitely! This will be a terrific combination...

[TomK]

IMO, the biggest problem with offering complete products and kits/parts is that you now have to support two different kinds of customers. This increases support costs and time.

But Curtis, doesn't this also mean that you have MORE customers?

[curtis]

But Curtis, doesn't this also mean that you have MORE customers?
Sure, but the type of support is the issue, and the cost to provide it.

It takes much more time to support a DIY person....you have to provide support for each piece you sell. Support becomes much more detailed. You will be providing support for each individual piece.

For a finished product, Ascend checks every speaker when it is completed to insure quality and function. Turn that into a kit, and have the customer assemble...what can Ascend now be assured of? What kind of support should they provide? How much time would Ascend be spending just to make sure the customer assembled the speaker correctly before any other trouble shooting can begin?

[pinchharmonic]

few questions from new guy here,

1.) when dave mentioned he can customize certain things about the tower, what does that mean? is that just different colors of the cabinet? By any chance do the cones or their brackets come in different colors if I were to pay?

2.) before I realized this was available I was considering the Salk Songtowers, and the PSB Imagine, or PSB Synchrony (used to fit into this price category), anyone care to take a crack at how this could compare?

thanks everyone,
Dave

[curtis]

few questions from new guy here,

1.) when dave mentioned he can customize certain things about the tower, what does that mean? is that just different colors of the cabinet? By any chance do the cones or their brackets come in different colors if I were to pay?

2.) before I realized this was available I was considering the Salk Songtowers, and the PSB Imagine, or PSB Synchrony (used to fit into this price category), anyone care to take a crack at how this could compare?

Dave has posted that custom finishes are available at an extra charge. I doubt that drivers will be available in different colors.

The tower, in the least, will compare very well to the PSBs and the Salk.

[pinchharmonic]

thanks for the response.

another curiosity, i read that a lot of towers used curved cabinets to reduce standing waves. unless I can't tell that the cabinet is curved slightly from the pics, the speaker looks like a perfect rectangle. Is there some other technology used instead of the curved cabinetry?

[curtis]

another curiosity, i read that a lot of towers used curved cabinets to reduce standing waves. unless I can't tell that the cabinet is curved slightly from the pics, the speaker looks like a perfect rectangle. Is there some other technology used instead of the curved cabinetry?
Yeah...there's dampening material in the cabinet.

[TomK]

Sure, but the type of support is the issue, and the cost to provide it.

It takes much more time to support a DIY person....you have to provide support for each piece you sell. Support becomes much more detailed. You will be providing support for each individual piece.

For a finished product, Ascend checks every speaker when it is completed to insure quality and function. Turn that into a kit, and have the customer assemble...what can Ascend now be assured of? What kind of support should they provide? How much time would Ascend be spending just to make sure the customer assembled the speaker correctly before any other trouble shooting can begin?

I get your point. Having designed and built my own speakers from scratch I did not factor in the problems that could arise with a "noobie". That situation could be dealt with. However, I could see that Ascend's reputation could be hurt by DIYs using inept assembly skills. The internet is full of "reviews" and "opinions" about products many of which are downright lies or misinformation written by people who either can't or won't read the instruction manual.

[GirgleMirt]

I get your point. Having designed and built my own speakers from scratch I did not factor in the problems that could arise with a "noobie". That situation could be dealt with. However, I could see that Ascend's reputation could be hurt by DIYs using inept assembly skills. The internet is full of "reviews" and "opinions" about products many of which are downright lies or misinformation written by people who either can't or won't read the instruction manual.

They'd also be cannibalizing their own speaker sales which I think is a bigger issue than support... although implementing new DIY products line probably isn't that simple...

Plus, if they sell the drivers + assembled crossovers, some profit has to be factored in the sale. Ex: Ascend uses SEAS tweeters, so has to purchase tweeters from SEAS, if they resell the tweeters, they have to factor in some profit... To be profitable, I'm guessing selling the components vs selling complete speakers, the profit margin would have to be at least comparable. So how great would that work for DIY? Take $850 Sierras, how much would you be willing to pay for 2 tweeters, 2 woofers and 2 assembled crossovers? 300? 400? 500$?

The introductory price for the NrT upgrade was around 350ish I think, then went up... Add the price of two woofers, and you'd have your DIY Ascend kit... I guess you could always email Ascend for a quote on 2 'replacement' tweeters, woofers and crossovers ;) They're really great folks and in my experience will more than likely be willing to help you out :)

Damn.. off topic...;)

[RicardoJoa]

Well I have them up and running and only had a little bit of time to listen. I wont get into details until I have some serious time with them. So far, very impressive. What jumped out at me from the first track was the imaging, detail and timbre accuracy, then male vocals.

Dave....
They arrived safely and the finish is superb!

Stay tuned. I have all day tomorrow to do more tweaking and evaluations.

So far I'm:):D:p
Hi merrymaid, havent heard from you awhile, just wondering how are you liking with the towers? anything you would like to add since they have been with you so long
Thanks

[merrymaid520]

Hi merrymaid, havent heard from you awhile, just wondering how are you liking with the towers? anything you would like to add since they have been with you so long
Thanks

Hey Ricardo,
I still am enjoying them every day! The more I listen to them, the more I appreciate how dynamic they are. For a smaller Tower cabinet, they sound "big". I still feel the mids are more forward than the sierra, but in a good way and i like it. They have a weight and clarity to them that only the sierra Nrt could come close to (in the ascend line). The highs are crisp and detailed, and have never caused any fatigue even with all of the different material I have played from the time they arrived.

I know some of the people that heard mine at a GTG did not care for the mids, but I feel the Towers have that "live" sound which is a bit more forward than other ascend speakers making them to me, sound like you're at the show! As you can see from the measurements Dave posted, they are very "flat" with no emphasis anywhere. Its difficult to describe this other than saying they have more weight in the mids and they stand out a bit more than the sierras. Both in my opinion, a postive attribute, especially if you are accustom to hearing live music. Again, with anything audio, some may love this others may not. Use your own ears, right:)

On a related note for those who followed the AVS GTG thread, the next upcoming one looks like it will be held next Saturday 4/23. In attendance will be my Ascend Towers, the Salk HT2-TL's, Salk Songtowers with Ribbons, maybe some Paradigm sigs, and etc. I will be curious to hear my Towers not only in a much different room but on very different gear (tubes, seperate DAC, etc)

Stay tuned......


Brandon

[RicardoJoa]

Thanks, look forward to the GTG, hopefully more on discriptions of the sound rather then who is better. Also,i noticed on pg 5 the graph that you took from the manual, the upper frequency is bump up, wonder if that have anything to do with the way they sound.

[merrymaid520]

Thanks, look forward to the GTG, hopefully more on discriptions of the sound rather then who is better. Also,i noticed on pg 5 the graph that you took from the manual, the upper frequency is bump up, wonder if that have anything to do with the way they sound.

No problem. I am not sure how the results will pan out this time around at the next GTG, but I imagine the Salk folks will still prefer the sound of their speakers while I will like mine.....personal preferences;)

The bump between 10Khz-20Khz on the measurement you are referring to should only effect the top end(higher frequency material). The good thing is that most who heard the new NrT tweeter both on the Tower and upgraded sierra-1 felt it was a noticeable improvement and did not cause any sibilance or other issues. I think that slight bump adds to the overall extension of the NrT giving it that extra energy up top. The prior standard tweeter dropped off rapidly after 20Khz while the new one stays strong up to 27Khz.

[avsnoob10]

Brandon: Is 2nd GTG happening on April 30th?

[merrymaid520]

Brandon: Is 2nd GTG happening on April 30th?

Nope, moved up to 4/23.

[avsnoob10]

Oh wow, thats good news. Have another question, is piano black finish on your towers significantly better than Sierra-1 or they are close enough?

[davef]

I agree.

Dave, would it be possible to see the three blacks from a distance? The best would be the three black towers standing next to each other, but even just swatches of each color from a bit further back would be great! Thanks!

We will do our best to try and capture the differences in the different black finishes.

However, it is very difficult to show differences in the blacks from a distance, especially since the main difference is in reflectivity, which will vary based on the angle of the camera. At certain angles, all the blacks look the same. At other angles, the piano black, for example, simply reflects all light back into the camera and a picture isn't even possible...

It is also important to note that we are building these to order (at least initially). Maybe I can request a larger panel from the builder, perhaps just the side baffle of the speaker and take a few pics of these?

[davef]

What's the regular pricing going to be? What's the time frame for the monster center? I want the towers, but will not purchase until the center is available. I don't want to use a Sierra NRT for center duty.

-Dave

Hi Dave,

Impossible for me to predict right now -- I am keeping my fingers crossed that we don't have to raise the price.

However, as you may know -- the price of rare earth metals has skyrocketed and has shown no signs of slowing down. both The Neo-Ring tweeter (NrT) and the mid driver in the tower use a lot of neodymium. As an example, our price on the tweeter has increased by nearly 20% just in the last 6 months :(

With American made bamboo cabinets + 4 very high quality drivers + full assembly in our factory, at the current prices -- this is the lowest profit margin product we have ever offered.

Perhaps after the inevitible price increase, we can offer a discount for customers who are willing to send payment by check, considering close to 3% of the total purchase price is going to the credit card company.

[RicardoJoa]

Hi Dave,

Impossible for me to predict right now -- I am keeping my fingers crossed that we don't have to raise the price.

However, as you may know -- the price of rare earth metals has skyrocketed and has shown no signs of slowing down. both The Neo-Ring tweeter (NrT) and the mid driver in the tower use a lot of neodymium. As an example, our price on the tweeter has increased by nearly 20% just in the last 6 months :(

With American made bamboo cabinets + 4 very high quality drivers + full assembly in our factory, at the current prices -- this is the lowest profit margin product we have ever offered.

Perhaps after the inevitible price increase, we can offer a discount for

who are willing to send payment by check, considering close to 3% of the
total purchase price is going to the credit card company.
For what you are offering, i think is a great deal.
Dave, what kind of freight do you offer for international customers. I did a quote via fedex and ups, and the shipping cost is really expensive, 700-800. For reference, my sierra costed 250.

[ripcordaff]

It is also important to note that we are building these to order (at least initially). Maybe I can request a larger panel from the builder, perhaps just the side baffle of the speaker and take a few pics of these?

That would be perfect. And I do understand the difficulties in capturing the differences with a simple photo--I am sure they look much better in person!

[merrymaid520]

Oh wow, thats good news. Have another question, is piano black finish on your towers significantly better than Sierra-1 or they are close enough?

The finish on the Towers is better(more durable and more uniform) although I have the original Sierras back when the finishing had some small issues(lots of B stock ones). As for it matching the current sierras PB finish, one probably could not tell the difference from a few feet away.

Hope this helps,
B

[davef]

For what you are offering, i think is a great deal.
Dave, what kind of freight do you offer for international customers. I did a quote via fedex and ups, and the shipping cost is really expensive, 700-800. For reference, my sierra costed 250.

We get better international rates than what is available to the general public. Send me a PM or email with your exact shipping address and I would be happy to give you a freight estimate.

Thanks again!

[davef]

Dave, is me again. Would like to know what is the best center to match the towers. The oubvious should be the sierra with nrt tweeter, but then the woofer wont exactly match the mid of the tower. How close would they come? Why not use the mid from the tower and have it in TM configuration for the mids?
Thanks

The best center right now would be the Sierra-1 center with the NrT upgrade. When we release the tower center (what I was referring to as our monster center), this will be the perfect center to match the towers...

[davef]

Dave,
Not to throw a monkey wrench into the gears......but, have you
ever given thought to selling your speakers in kit form for the DIYs out there? You could offer just the parts and enclosure plans, or the complete kit including parts and finished enclosure. Just a thought for saving money. Anyone have an opinion?
I apologize for the monkey wrench!

Hi Tom,

It is really two very different business models... We prefer to have complete control over the final products we offer, which allows us to properly support our customers and to offer exceptional quality control. DIY products are a bit different and come with many outside variables that we can't control which would make after-sale support quite a bit more challenging.

When you then factor in other items such as inventory management, pre-sale support and the fact that we have contracts in place that do not allow us to retail some of our proprietary drivers, I see the possibility as very problematic...

Take care!

[davef]

Hi Dave,


few questions from new guy here,

1.) when dave mentioned he can customize certain things about the tower, what does that mean? is that just different colors of the cabinet? By any chance do the cones or their brackets come in different colors if I were to pay?

We will be able to offer certain customized cabinet finishes and minor modifications to the crossover (like dual inputs for bi-wiring/bi-amping)

Offering different color woofer cones and frames is not possible, unless of course, you want to order about 250 tower pairs (so we reach our minimum purchase quantities from our driver manufacturers) :p

[davef]

thanks for the response.

another curiosity, i read that a lot of towers used curved cabinets to reduce standing waves. unless I can't tell that the cabinet is curved slightly from the pics, the speaker looks like a perfect rectangle. Is there some other technology used instead of the curved cabinetry?

There are both advantages and disadvantages to curved cabinety. The common way to produce curved cabinets is cut slits into the wood, glue and bend. This does reduce internal standing waves but it also reduces cabinet rigidity.

The type of curved cabinet you are describing is not possible with vertical grain bamboo. Instead, our midrange driver is housed in its own sealed enclosure that is fully packed with damping material to absorb standing waves. The bass section of the tower is also well damped but internal standing waves would not be an issue at these lower frequencies.

Hope this makes sense!

[davef]

Thanks, look forward to the GTG, hopefully more on discriptions of the sound rather then who is better. Also,i noticed on pg 5 the graph that you took from the manual, the upper frequency is bump up, wonder if that have anything to do with the way they sound.

That bump you mention is a specific design of the new tweeter (NrT). It will only show up on anechoic measurements where there is no room absorption. The bump is there to specifically compensate for room absorption so that the upper end response yields a flat in-room response, rather than a high frequency response that rolls-off. This is important because this is a large dome tweeter (29mm) and it is more directional than smaller dome tweeters, highs will roll-off quicker when off-axis. Larger domes provide a cleaner and more dynamic lower frequency response (better mids) and also provide tremendous power handling.

So, what we have here is the best of both worlds, the advantages of a larger dome tweeter combined with the high frequency response of a smaller dome tweeter :)

[Mag_Neato]

Dave, have you made any progress as to the name of the tower?:)

[RicardoJoa]

There are both advantages and disadvantages to curved cabinety. The common way to produce curved cabinets is cut slits into the wood, glue and bend. This does reduce internal standing waves but it also reduces cabinet rigidity.

The type of curved cabinet you are describing is not possible with vertical grain bamboo. Instead, our midrange driver is housed in its own sealed enclosure that is fully packed with damping material to absorb standing waves. The bass section of the tower is also well damped but internal standing waves would not be an issue at these lower frequencies.

Hope this makes sense!
Dave, have you considered a sealed version of the tower with appropriate cabinet volume, i dont mean just to cover the port but a proper volume for the cabinet. Oubviously it will loose the low end, but
what can be gained? Wouldnt the upper BASS/lowermidrange frequency be different? By the way, will there b a anechoic FR graph? Thanks

[millerwill]

Dave, Is it a reasonable assumption that this new 'monster center' will be the same width (7.5") as the towers, i.e., 7.5" high when lying long-wise as I presume it will be? And do you know yet how wide it will be?

I'm very happy with my Sierra-1nrt center, but for HT one is always interested in the best possible center speaker. I presume that the new 'monster center' will play well with Sierra-1nrt'a on the Left and Right?

PS Is there any 'pre-order' list for the monster center? And any possibility of trading in a Sierra-1nrt Center for it?



The best center right now would be the Sierra-1 center with the NrT upgrade. When we release the tower center (what I was referring to as our monster center), this will be the perfect center to match the towers...

[GaryB]

I think you can count on the tower center being ~ 11.5" high, as Dave initially hinted. This is necessitated by the WTMW driver array (vertical tweeter/midrange with flanking woofers) and diameters of the driver flanges.

Someone posted on AVSforum that Dave has indicated that the tower center will be about the same width as the CMT-340 SE, i.e ~ 21". And my calculations indicate that a depth of ~ 10.5" (the same as the tower and Sierra-1) will create just enough internal volume for two Sierra-1 woofers and the required midrange subenclosure.

So my bold prediction is 11.5" high by 21" wide by 10.5" deep. While the depth is quite manageable, this will be a very imposing speaker when viewed from the front. It will also likely weigh at least 40-45 lbs., depending on the driver weights and internal bracing configuration.

One more bold prediction... two front Sierra-1 type ports, since there'll be lots of free front baffle space for them and front ports make sense in a center channel speaker which may be mounted in a confined space, such as inside a cabinet.

Of course if I'm way off base, I suspect someone will say so... ;)

[millerwill]

I think you can count on the tower center being ~ 11.5" high, as Dave initially hinted. This is necessitated by the WTMW driver array (vertical tweeter/midrange with flanking woofers) and diameters of the driver flanges.

Someone posted on AVSforum that Dave has indicated that the tower center will be about the same width as the CMT-340 SE, i.e ~ 21". And my calculations indicate that a depth of ~ 10.5" (the same as the tower and Sierra-1) will create just enough internal volume for two Sierra-1 woofers and the required midrange subenclosure.

So my bold prediction is 11.5" high by 21" wide by 10.5" deep. While the depth is quite manageable, this will be a very imposing speaker when viewed from the front. It will also likely weigh at least 40-45 lbs., depending on the driver weights and internal bracing configuration.

One more bold prediction... two front Sierra-1 type ports, since there'll be lots of free front baffle space for them and front ports make sense in a center channel speaker which may be mounted in a confined space, such as inside a cabinet.

Of course if I'm way off base, I suspect someone will say so... ;)

Thanks, Gary; I just heard about this new project from a friend and so am late getting in on the info. Sorry to hear about the 11.5" height, though.

My situation is that I have a 16" high (6 ft wide) equipment cabinet (no doors) below a fixed frame projector screen, and my present Sierra Center sits on top of it, just barely fitting below the screen. With the dimensions you estimate for the Tower Center, it would thus not be possible to put the TC on top of the cabinet. However the space inside the equipment shelf is 12.5"H and 23"W, so your dimensions for the TC would fit, though pretty snuggly. The question is, would the TC, sitting enclosed, sound much better than the Sierra Center, sitting out in the open? The TC would also be closer to the floor (though I can angle it upward), which I know is not so great.

[davef]

Dave, have you made any progress as to the name of the tower?:)

Sierra Tower :)

[davef]

Dave, have you considered a sealed version of the tower with appropriate cabinet volume, i dont mean just to cover the port but a proper volume for the cabinet. Oubviously it will loose the low end, but
what can be gained? Wouldnt the upper BASS/lowermidrange frequency be different? By the way, will there b a anechoic FR graph? Thanks

The midrange driver is housed in its own enclosure (sealed.)

Offering a sealed bass enclosure would require different woofers and there would be a considerable loss in efficiency and a larger cabinet. I don't see any benefit to this...


By the way, will there b a anechoic FR graph?

I believe this has already been posted somewhere... I will have to check but yes, once the Towers are officially released, expect to see our standard suite of measurements :)

[davef]

Dave, Is it a reasonable assumption that this new 'monster center' will be the same width (7.5") as the towers, i.e., 7.5" high when lying long-wise as I presume it will be? And do you know yet how wide it will be?

I'm very happy with my Sierra-1nrt center, but for HT one is always interested in the best possible center speaker. I presume that the new 'monster center' will play well with Sierra-1nrt'a on the Left and Right?

PS Is there any 'pre-order' list for the monster center? And any possibility of trading in a Sierra-1nrt Center for it?

The STC (Sierra Tower Center) should come in at just under 11" high. We are experimenting with a lower profile version (7.5" high) but this version can not match the off-axis response of the taller version.

[Jonnyozero3]

Sierra Tower :)

Genius!!! :p

[davef]

Genius!!! :p

LOL :)

I have been calling it the Sierra tower for so long now (at our facility and with our vendors) that naming it anything else at this point would simply confuse me :o

[millerwill]

The STC (Sierra Tower Center) should come in at just under 11" high. We are experimenting with a lower profile version (7.5" high) but this version can not match the off-axis response of the taller version.

Thanks for the heads up; I'll stay tuned!

[Jonnyozero3]

LOL :)

I have been calling it the Sierra tower for so long now (at our facility and with our vendors) that naming it anything else at this point would simply confuse me :o

Too funny :) Well, even though I didn't win the hat...I did have fun googling for an hour with a bottle of scotch trying to come up with a creative name. It was totally worth the failed effort :D

[davef]

I owe everyone a huge thank you for being so patient with us while we prepare for the release of our most exciting product to date. Production of the Sierra Tower has proven to be quite a challenge for us and I have some good news and some bad…

First, the bad…

We were all set to start mass production 2 months ago but at that time we were not aware that several of the components used in the crossover were being sourced from a Japanese company. Our crossover vendor assured us that although the delivery of these parts would be delayed due to the awful situation over there, they would have no problems acquiring them. It turned out that this was not the case and we were offered no assurances or guarantees as to when these necessary parts would be delivered.

With the help of our vendor, we immediately began working on sourcing suitable replacement parts. This took some time as each possible replacement had to be fully evaluated and as many of you know, I would never and have never compromised performance in order to meet a deadline.

And now for the good…

We have selected replacement components for the crossovers and they are now in full production. During this delay and based on feedback and extensive testing, we have also made a few changes to the initial crossover design as well as a mechanical change to the tweeter, all of which have given way to what I consider to be a large increase in performance from the initial prototype pair and the first pair we shipped.

On the crossover, a series component (capacitor) was removed on both the midrange bandpass filter and the tweeter high-pass filter. This had a rather surprising effect on performance as the midrange response is now purer with a bit more warmth and less of an edge. The speaker is now smoother in presentation and the additional warmth that comes through makes it sound slightly less forward. The overall result brings us yet one more step closer to perfect reproduction of the source material.

After a meeting at our facility with our tweeter manufacturer’s (SEAS) head of R&D, who visited us from Norway, we were granted approval of a minor tweak to how an adhesive was being used in the tweeter assembly. It was necessary to obtain this approval prior to implementation in our factory for vendor warranty purposes. The result of this tweak is minor and most likely not audible to most listeners, but it is certainly measurable and provides for a smoother frequency response and more linear off-axis dispersion.

The Sierra Tower sounds extremely balanced, dynamic and “live” – with an incredibly pure and natural sounding midrange. I feel the production delay was actually a blessing in disguise and for those of you patiently waiting; you will be rewarded with performance that actually surpasses all of the initial reports and comments.

And now for the big question, when will we be able to start shipping? ;)

Tweeters, woofers, midrange drivers and port tubes are in stock. Cabinets and crossovers are in full production. Based on the timeline given to us by our cabinet vendor and crossover vendor, we expect to be able to start shipping several pairs per week starting in about 4-5 weeks. For those of you on our pre-order list, expect to see another correspondence from us within 48 hours.

It is important to understand that these speakers are being built-to-order (at least for the first 2 production batches.) For those of you not on our pre-order list but would still like to get in on the first large scale production run, I believe we have 4-5 slots still open but please contact us ASAP.

Please feel free to post your questions and comments and thank you so much for your patience and understanding. Trust me when I say that your patience will be well rewarded with a product that, much like the Sierra-1, will set another standard for performance.

[merrymaid520]

I look forward to hearing my towers with the new Crossover! From what you have mentioned, it sounds like a fairly substantial improvement! I hope some of my feedback was helpful! I still enjoy them everyday! I still like that "live" and dynamic sound they produce even over those Salk speakers:p If you were able to smooth out the mids just a touch, better tweeter / mid integration, all without sacrificing accuracy, I will be very pleased:D

One question I had, I know I will be getting the new XO's once they ship, what about the NrT tweak?

Thanks!

B

[TomK]

Dave,
Thanks for the update. This has been an interesting lesson in how a product comes to market. A lot of hard work and sleepless nights! This one sentence is why we are so loyal to Ascend. "I would never and have never compromised performance in order to meet a deadline." Too bad more companies don't think this way.

Two questions.

1. Will the color of the finishes be the same as those on the present Sierra's?

2. Will the foam plugs be available if needed for tuning?

[Mag_Neato]

Congrats, Dave! Sounds like the towers are going to be very popular.

I have a question. Would the tweeter modification be beneficial for the Sierra-1 NrT's? Also, would the crossover mod apply, in any way, to the Sierra-1 NrT crossover as well, e.g. increased performance? Meaning, is there a parallel mod for the Sierra-1 NrT's? Just wondering. Don't mean to open a can of worms because I'm loving the NrT upgrade.

[davef]

I look forward to hearing my towers with the new Crossover! From what you have mentioned, it sounds like a fairly substantial improvement! I hope some of my feedback was helpful!

Brandon,

Your feedback was very valuable!



I still enjoy them everyday! I still like that "live" and dynamic sound they produce even over those Salk speakers:p If you were able to smooth out the mids just a touch, better tweeter / mid integration, all without sacrificing accuracy, I will be very pleased:D

Let me just say that you will be VERY pleased :p Removal of these bothersome capacitors actually improves transient response as well so the speakers will sound even more dynamic and live.


One question I had, I know I will be getting the new XO's once they ship, what about the NrT tweak?

We can mod your tweeters. Actually, if you want to send back the original crossovers now (as opposed to us shipping you a new set when they are availalbe) we can bring them up to date and take care of the tweeter mod as well. It is going to take some work on your end though and some soldering will be required in either case.

Let me know either way...

[davef]

Dave,
Thanks for the update. This has been an interesting lesson in how a product comes to market. A lot of hard work and sleepless nights! This one sentence is why we are so loyal to Ascend. "I would never and have never compromised performance in order to meet a deadline." Too bad more companies don't think this way.

Two questions.

1. Will the color of the finishes be the same as those on the present Sierra's?

2. Will the foam plugs be available if needed for tuning?

Thanks Tom... This has indeed been the most challenging product in my long career in this industry. I can't wait to get these speakers into our customers homes!

Here are finish options and pre-order pricing as posted a while back:

Natural finish (identical to Sierra-1) = $1898/pr + shipping (with satin black base)

Black Sand Finish (this is a textured black matte paint, extremely durable and very attractive) = $1898/pr + shipping (with black sand base)

Espresso (with a satin sheen, not as glossy as the Sierra-1 but same hue) = $1998/pr + shipping (with satin black base)

Dark Cherry (with same satin sheen, not as glossy as the Sierra-1 but same hue) = $1998/pr + shipping (with satin black base)

Satin Black = $1998/pr + shipping (with satin black base)

High Gloss Black (high gloss but not a true mirror finish) = $1998/pr + shipping (with high gloss base)

True Piano Black (mirror quality finish) = $2598 + shipping (with piano black base)


2. Will the foam plugs be available if needed for tuning?

Yes...

[merrymaid520]

Brandon,

Your feedback was very valuable!




Let me just say that you will be VERY pleased :p Removal of these bothersome capacitors actually improves transient response as well so the speakers will sound even more dynamic and live.



We can mod your tweeters. Actually, if you want to send back the original crossovers now (as opposed to us shipping you a new set when they are availalbe) we can bring them up to date and take care of the tweeter mod as well. It is going to take some work on your end though and some soldering will be required in either case.

Let me know either way...

Very exciting news! I cant wait for the Sierra Tower 2.0:)
I can send in the old XO and Tweeters this week. If you can shoot me an email with specific directions on Tweeter and XO removal, that would be appreciated so I don't mess anything up. As for re-installing, my father in law can handle the soldering...again just let me know the specifics!

Thanks for taking the parts in early, much appreciated as usual!

Brandon

[davef]

Congrats, Dave! Sounds like the towers are going to be very popular.

I have a question. Would the tweeter modification be beneficial for the Sierra-1 NrT's? Also, would the crossover mod apply, in any way, to the Sierra-1 NrT crossover as well, e.g. increased performance? Meaning, is there a parallel mod for the Sierra-1 NrT's? Just wondering. Don't mean to open a can of worms because I'm loving the NrT upgrade.

The Sierra-1 NrT crossover is entirely different and uses a different crossover point and filter slope in order to provide the best integration with the Sierra-1 woofer. The changes to the Tower crossover would not benefit the Sierra-1 NrT -- they would actually not work well and the critical integration between woofer and tweeter would be compromised.

The modification to the tweeter is something I would have to test out with the Sierra-1 NrT as it mostly affects dispersion and off-axis response and is something that is more measured than heard. The Sierra-1 and the Sierra Tower have different dispersion characteristics.

[Jonnyozero3]

Great news Dave, thanks for the update. I know this is selfish, but I won't be home for about 4-5 weeks, so this works out PERFECTLY for me :) Hooray! :P

[Mag_Neato]

The Sierra-1 NrT crossover is entirely different and uses a different crossover point and filter slope in order to provide the best integration with the Sierra-1 woofer. The changes to the Tower crossover would not benefit the Sierra-1 NrT -- they would actually not work well and the critical integration between woofer and tweeter would be compromised.

The modification to the tweeter is something I would have to test out with the Sierra-1 NrT as it mostly affects dispersion and off-axis response and is something that is more measured than heard. The Sierra-1 and the Sierra Tower have different dispersion characteristics.

Ok, gotcha Dave! Just wondered.

As much as I love my Sierra-NrT's, I have wanted to someday go back to a floorstanding tower. Pretty much since replacing my Vandersteen 1b's with some B&W 602's, which became the CBM-170's, then the Sierra-1's, and now the NrT's. I think the Sierra Tower would satisfy that nicely, just a little shy of funds.

[gorthocar]

The STC (Sierra Tower Center) should come in at just under 11" high. We are experimenting with a lower profile version (7.5" high) but this version can not match the off-axis response of the taller version.

Hi Dave, that's great news about Sierra Towers getting ready for production. I'm hoping that the delay means that we should have a matching center sooner. I'm really looking forward to the Towers, but I was somewhat cringing at the thought of having 6 months with my CMT-340 SE center between 2 Sierra Towers. I know you won't ship them until they are ready, and I'll patiently wait for them.

On that tangent, what is the width of the Sierra Tower Center? I know that you are still experimenting with prototypes and specs are subject to change, but I'm curious if it would fit in my home theater furniture. I have way over 11" height clearance, but my width clearance is only approximately 34".

[davef]

On that tangent, what is the width of the Sierra Tower Center? I know that you are still experimenting with prototypes and specs are subject to change, but I'm curious if it would fit in my home theater furniture. I have way over 11" height clearance, but my width clearance is only approximately 34".

The dimensions of the prototype (and what we hope will be the production version) are 10 7/8" high x 28" wide x 10.5" deep. It is large but not too large compared to some centers out there. Performance is fantastic!

[davef]

I'm really looking forward to the Towers, but I was somewhat cringing at the thought of having 6 months with my CMT-340 SE center between 2 Sierra Towers. I know you won't ship them until they are ready, and I'll patiently wait for them.

I assure you, the center should be available within 3 months after the towers start shipping :)

[Jonnyozero3]

The dimensions of the prototype (and what we hope will be the production version) are 10 7/8" high x 28" wide x 10.5" deep. It is large but not too large compared to some centers out there. Performance is fantastic!

Hey Dave,

Are you willing to share any more initial details on the center, such as driver config or how the performance looks good? :) Has it required a lot of work in comparison to the tower?

[davef]

Hey Dave,

Are you willing to share any more initial details on the center, such as driver config or how the performance looks good? :) Has it required a lot of work in comparison to the tower?

Happy to :)

Driver config, from left to right is

woofer, mid-woofer - tweeter (vertically oriented - mid-woofer on top of the tweeter etc.), woofer. Performance of this speaker on-axis is identical to that of the tower. It has wider vertical dispersion (perfect for the center to allow for versatile placement options) and about a +/- 30 degree horizontal listening window (which is very wide).

Performance specs will be the same as the tower (same power handling, efficiency, frequency response, impedance etc.)

The speaker will be front ported....

So far the design is working out quite nicely and is a perfect match to the tower, carrying with it a very smooth yet detailed response with excellent dynamics and a very "live" sound...

It will be an amazing center channel speaker :)

[Hadden]

Wow. These speakers are really looking awesome and the sound of these speakers should be very good to hear. If you have some more pictures then please share with us.

[scape]

this center channel excites me, maybe more so than the towers. I really like the front ported design, which will help mount these close to the wall (seeing how they will stick out almost a foot), as well the more compact size is nice. is there an opportunity to sell the center channels as main L/R channels as well?

I'm also going to take a stab at center channel pricing: 600sh$?

thanks for all your hardwork dave, and listening to the community :)

[ronbo]

I'm also going to take a stab at center channel pricing: 600sh$?

If it's just as capable as the tower than I'm guessing the price is going to be at least half the cost of a pair for towers, around $1K.

[scape]

1k for a single cab would certainly be a new market for ascend. regarding the pricing structure, i'd be surprised if it exceeded a pair of sierra's by that much; but then again maybe it really is that much better. i still think the center sounds more exciting, especially if it's comparable; having a dedicated Left and Right of similar dimensions and layout would be smart i would think.

[davef]

this center channel excites me, maybe more so than the towers. I really like the front ported design, which will help mount these close to the wall (seeing how they will stick out almost a foot), as well the more compact size is nice. is there an opportunity to sell the center channels as main L/R channels as well?

I'm also going to take a stab at center channel pricing: 600sh$?

thanks for all your hardwork dave, and listening to the community :)


If it's just as capable as the tower than I'm guessing the price is going to be at least half the cost of a pair for towers, around $1K.

The STC (Sierra Tower Center) is basically a single tower speaker with a more complex cabinet design. It has the same components as the tower and while I certainly wish it were possible, we could not possibly sell this in the $600 range.

Think about it this way when comparing to a pair of Sierra-1 -- the center will have more bamboo than a pair of Sierra-1, the neo-ring magnet tweeter (NrT - which is more than twice the cost of a pair of Sierra-1 tweeters), two similar woofers + the new midrange woofer...

Ronbo is correct, the retail price point will likely be around $1000+ depending on the finishes.

[soundseeker]

If it's just as capable as the tower than I'm guessing the price is going to be at least half the cost of a pair for towers, around $1K.

I agree. Plus, if you consider the components used, we're looking at two woofers, a mid, and a tweeter.

[scape]

that's a fair assessment, the speaker sounds like it will sound awesome! :) any pictures of the center yet?
and on another note: it'd be cool to see a behind the scenes pic of your work area.. some of us cannot afford to travel to cali to check out the facility

[Mag_Neato]

I agree. Plus, if you consider the components used, we're looking at two woofers, a mid, and a tweeter.

The tower is using the same number of components. Given what Dave has posted here, it is going to be quite a center speaker. Even though it is likely to be "slightly" out of my price range, it's nice to have a higher-end option for Ascend. Look at all the people who would not bat an eye at spending more than this on a competitors' speaker, only to gain a fancier wood finish or paying for a brand name.

[GirgleMirt]

Think about it this way when comparing to a pair of Sierra-1 -- the center will have more bamboo than a pair of Sierra-1, the neo-ring magnet tweeter (NrT - which is more than twice the cost of a pair of Sierra-1 tweeters), two similar woofers + the new midrange woofer...

"two similar woofers". So the woofers aren't the same on the towers vs the Sierra1? Or are the woofers different for the center? If they are different, what are the differences?

[merrymaid520]

"two similar woofers". So the woofers aren't the same on the towers vs the Sierra1? Or are the woofers different for the center? If they are different, what are the differences?

IIRC, the Tower woofers were modified for a different(deeper)bass response over the sierra-1 woofer. Something with the voice coil maybe? So yes, they are different, only slightly:)

[davef]

"two similar woofers". So the woofers aren't the same on the towers vs the Sierra1? Or are the woofers different for the center? If they are different, what are the differences?


IIRC, the Tower woofers were modified for a different(deeper)bass response over the sierra-1 woofer. Something with the voice coil maybe? So yes, they are different, only slightly:)

The tower woofers are actually quite a bit different than the Sierra-1 woofer. Same basket frame but it uses a higher mass cone, higher impedance and radically different T/S parameters. These changes optimize the woofer for the cabinet volume and port tuning of the Sierra Tower. The woofers are not interchangeable from the Sierra-1 and the Sierra Tower.

[millerwill]

The tower woofers are actually quite a bit different than the Sierra-1 woofer. Same basket frame but it uses a higher mass cone, higher impedance and radically different T/S parameters. These changes optimize the woofer for the cabinet volume and port tuning of the Sierra Tower. The woofers are not interchangeable from the Sierra-1 and the Sierra Tower.

So would you recommend against using a Tower Center with 2 Sierra-1's as L and R speakers in a HT setup? (Surrounds are HTM-200's.)

[davef]

So would you recommend against using a Tower Center with 2 Sierra-1's as L and R speakers in a HT setup? (Surrounds are HTM-200's.)

Quite the opposite actually... The Sierra Tower Center will be closely timber matched to the Sierra-1 (even closer to the Sierra-1 NrT) and will be a fantastic center channel with better detail and far superior dynamics compared to using the Sierra-1 as a center. If you like your HT loud, room-filling and with lots of punch, the STC will be the best option with Sierra-1 or Sierra Towers as your front left/right speakers.

[millerwill]

Quite the opposite actually... The Sierra Tower Center will be closely timber matched to the Sierra-1 (even closer to the Sierra-1 NrT) and will be a fantastic center channel with better detail and far superior dynamics compared to using the Sierra-1 as a center. If you like your HT loud, room-filling and with lots of punch, the STC will be the best option with Sierra-1 or Sierra Towers as your front left/right speakers.

Very interesting. For HT it is clear that the CC is the most imp speaker, and it is worth having one of the highest quality.

Did I read earlier that you would have a trade in program, e.g., for my Sierra-1 NRT center channel for the new Tower Center?

[Sam1000]

Brandon,
We can mod your tweeters. Actually, if you want to send back the original crossovers now (as opposed to us shipping you a new set when they are availalbe) we can bring them up to date and take care of the tweeter mod as well. It is going to take some work on your end though and some soldering will be required in either case.

Let me know either way...

Hey Brandon:
Did you mod your crossover and tweeter already? It would be interesting to read your impressions after the mod. (will keep us amused till we get our hands on the speaker.)
cheers..

[merrymaid520]

Hey Brandon:
Did you mod your crossover and tweeter already? It would be interesting to read your impressions after the mod. (will keep us amused till we get our hands on the speaker.)
cheers..

Hey Sam,
dave was working on the mod for my tweeters and XO's this week. Not sure if they have shipped back to me yet or not. I am also looking forward to hearing my towers after the mods as well. I will most defintely keep everyone informed on the results although not being able to compare old vs new side by side and not having my towers for the past few weeks will be tough:)

[curtis]

Hey Sam,
dave was working on the mod for my tweeters and XO's this week. Not sure if they have shipped back to me yet or not. I am also looking forward to hearing my towers after the mods as well. I will most defintely keep everyone informed on the results although not being able to compare old vs new side by side and not having my towers for the past few weeks will be tough:)
I told Dave to ship them to me and that you were OK with that. :p

Or did I dream that? :)

[merrymaid520]

I told Dave to ship them to me and that you were OK with that. :p

Or did I dream that? :)

Why not. Although without the Towers to put them in, not sure how much use they would be to you:p

I'll send pictures:D

[curtis]

Why not. Although without the Towers to put them in, not sure how much use they would be to you:p

I'll send pictures:D
oops...I forgot that little detail. :)

[steven1110]

Hey Dave,

Just curious if there's any update in regard to production/shipping of the Towers. I'm getting very excited as time draws near as I'm sure many others are as well!

Thanks!

[scape]

a snapshot of the center channel would be nice too :)

[davef]

Hey Dave,

Just curious if there's any update in regard to production/shipping of the Towers. I'm getting very excited as time draws near as I'm sure many others are as well!

Thanks!

Sorry for the delay...

Ok, here is where we stand as of today :)

Cabinets are being sanded and will be ready to start the finishing process next week. We will be sending out emails over the weekend with regard to confirming finish choices.

Crossovers are basically completed and we are having a small supply air-shipped to us in order to arrive at about the same time as the fully finished cabinets.

The custom binding posts should be here next week.

Spike feet should also be here within about ten days.

Packaging materials are also due here in about ten days.

Port tubes are in stock and ready.

Tweeters, woofers and mids are also in stock and ready.

Yes -- all of these puzzle pieces are coming from different vendors from all of the world. Coordinating everything has and continues to be the most challenging project I have ever undertaken.

I will be heading to the cabinet maker next week to check quality and take some pictures :)

Almost here :)

[davef]

a snapshot of the center channel would be nice too :)

Next week for sure. We are just working out the details of the front porting...

[steven1110]

Sorry for the delay...

Ok, here is where we stand as of today :)

Cabinets are being sanded and will be ready to start the finishing process next week. We will be sending out emails over the weekend with regard to confirming finish choices.

Crossovers are basically completed and we are having a small supply air-shipped to us in order to arrive at about the same time as the fully finished cabinets.

The custom binding posts should be here next week.

Spike feet should also be here within about ten days.

Packaging materials are also due here in about ten days.

Port tubes are in stock and ready.

Tweeters, woofers and mids are also in stock and ready.

Yes -- all of these puzzle pieces are coming from different vendors from all of the world. Coordinating everything has and continues to be the most challenging project I have ever undertaken.

I will be heading to the cabinet maker next week to check quality and take some pictures :)

Almost here :)

Nice!! Can't wait to see some pictures.

[davef]

Attached are some pics sent to me by the cabinet maker today. All of the cabinets are now assembled. (3) pairs should be ready by the end of this week (satin black, high gloss black, black sand) of which the plan is to provide some pictures showing the differences in these finish choices.

[scape]

awesome progress! i can't even understand how much work it must be to put something like this together.

what is black sand? sounds awesome and durable haha

[Jonnyozero3]

Attached are some pics sent to me by the cabinet maker today. All of the cabinets are now assembled. (3) pairs should be ready by the end of this week (satin black, high gloss black, black sand) of which the plan is to provide some pictures showing the differences in these finish choices.

Hey that one's mine! Me wants it! :p

[Sam1000]

Hi Dave:

Is the Matt Black finish similar to 340se?

[curtis]

Hi Dave:

Is the Matt Black finish similar to 340se?
Dave can confirm, but the 340SE's finish is a wrap, whereas the Tower is painted.

[davef]

Hi Dave:

Is the Matt Black finish similar to 340se?

Yes - but MUCH nicer. The black matte (black sand) is a lightly textured black painted finish. If you have ever seen an M&K loudspeaker, it is the exact same finish.

[davef]

I hope all of you had a wonderful 4th!!!

Some good news to share... I have just picked up some finished cabinets from the cabinet maker consisting of:

High Gloss black
Satin black
Black matte (black sand finish)

Many of you have asked for pictures comparing the different black finishes and you will have these within 24 hours. We plan on taking some pictures tonight so that we can finally confirm customer finish choices and get the final finishing completed :)

We will take some photos comparing

Piano Black
High Gloss Black
Satin Black
Black matte

I am no photographer so I have no idea how to best show the differences in digital pics. Any advice?

BTW, all finishes look GREAT!!!!

[merrymaid520]

Quick update for those wondering,

The new updated crossovers( and slightly modified Tweeters) for my Towers will arrive hopefully tomorrow night. The plan is to install the XO's and drivers which will be a bit of a project and have them up and running by Thursday. The issue is I leave Thursday afternoon, so hopefully I can hear them play before departing.

I am excited to hear the Tower version 2.0:D Sounds like those of you on the preorder waiting list will be getting your pairs soon, very cool! I feel kind of alone being the only person with the Sierra Towers:p

[markie]

*Someone* has to lead the pack, and you're it Curtis!

I'm wondering what might sound different with version 2. Too bad you won't be able to do an A/B. :) So, we hope you have the sound of your version 1 absolutely memorized so you will know the difference when you listen to version 2 of the towers. Again, no pressure. :D And we don't want you to feel pressure to get the new crossover and tweaked tweeter installed and performing before you leave on Thursday. Just because we depend and hang on your every word is no reason to loose sleep to get it done, really. :D

your fans,

[curtis]

I heard version 2 briefly a month ago for a few minutes. I wasn't far from Ascend for a local audio show, and stopped in.

No direct A/B with the previous version, and it had been long while since hearing the previous version. So all I can say is it sounded great!

[merrymaid520]

*Someone* has to lead the pack, and you're it Curtis!

I'm wondering what might sound different with version 2. Too bad you won't be able to do an A/B. :) So, we hope you have the sound of your version 1 absolutely memorized so you will know the difference when you listen to version 2 of the towers. Again, no pressure. :D And we don't want you to feel pressure to get the new crossover and tweaked tweeter installed and performing before you leave on Thursday. Just because we depend and hang on your every word is no reason to loose sleep to get it done, really. :D

your fans,

I think you were responding to me? Its Brandon:) I have been without V1 for a good month, so going off auditory memory will be tough. I am confident i will appreciate V2 once I get acclimated. I hope all of you are not pinning your hopes and dreams on my Tower feedback....Im just one guy:p Here's hoping UPS shows up on time tonight, if not it throws my whole game plan off for at least a week:eek:

Some recent feedback to me from Dave indicates he truly likes the V2 much better over my original pair. At first I was a little hesitant(I liked my pair) but from what he describes, I should be very pleased. I never wanted to lose the dynamic nature of the overall sound and it sounds like I wont. Having the mids smoothed out and better driver integration is what I had invisioned.

Wish me luck on the transplant(speaker) surgery!

B