Fun ELX Demo Today

[SunByrne]

It was really more about a comparison in bass response, both punch and extension. We have had so many inquiries from consumers stating it isn't possible for our 6" LX woofers to compete with 8", 10" or even 12" woofers - not only do they compete, they surpass in most cases. And, not just the actual woofers, but the size of our ELX cabinet is so small compared to the competition. Most consumers simply can't comprehend the fact that these small towers can sound so huge and have such impressive bass.

I think it’s excursion that people really don’t get. The total volume of air moved is (roughly) area times excursion, and I suspect people only think about the area part. Maybe you should post of video clip of the LX woofer cranking out near maximum excursion—it’s really quite a thing to watch. They really move an amazing amount of air. I still sometimes can’t believe the bass that the Sierra-LXs deliver.

I’m a bass player, and it’s no coincidence that one of the best sounding bass guitar cabs out there is the Phil Jones C8, which uses 5” drivers. Sure, it uses 8 of them, but that’s for volume. High-excursion drivers FTW!

[davef]

That is totally understandable! But can I ask what was the most expensive price speaker you compared to? Price question, not brand. Thanks Dave! My ELX upgrade kit is on order, but I already jump the gun and changed my signature.

Thanks for ordering the ELX upgrade kit. We have compared to speakers ranging in price from $4k/pair to $12K/pair.

[FallenCow]

Have you compared these with the new MartinLogan XT100/200? I couldn’t be happier with the ELX ribbons but the MLs just look so good and gave a ton of buzz. Curious how they compare.

[davef]

Have you compared these with the new MartinLogan XT100/200? I couldn’t be happier with the ELX ribbons but the MLs just look so good and gave a ton of buzz. Curious how they compare.

Yes, and rather intensive listening sessions. I personally found both the floorstanders and bookshelf unlistenable due to nearly instant fatigue. A customer lent me the bookshelf speakers and I ran an NFS spin to see if what I heard was revealed in the spins, and yes - the measurements very much matched up with what I heard. I believe this was covered in our main ELX thread, with some comments from a customer who also listened to the ML floorstanders.

I personally don't understand all the buzz but I do agree that the speakers are aesthetically stunning.

[CarloM]

I may or may not have been in the room when the B100s were demoed by Dave...

As someone who has listened to the F100 towers in multiple Best Buy/Magnolia listening rooms, A/B'ing it with other towers in their showroom, it literally sounds like the Loudness function was baked into the speakers.

For those who remember the loudness button in older A/V receivers from the 80's and earlier, it was designed to offset the old phenomenon of, as you lower the volume on speakers, the bass and upper treble fall off faster than the mids. So by pressing the loudness button, the older receivers just boosted the bass and treble (kind of like a smile shaped EQ). But you were only supposed to engage the loudness function at low volumes so that at those levels you got the bass and treble back. But if you kept it on at loud volumes, you just got bass and treble boosted inappropriately. That's what the new ML line sounds like to me. It sounds great at low to low-medium volumes, but put it at say 70db average (or higher) and then the bass (for the towers, as the bookshelves don't have the same bass extension) and the trebles are boosted inappropriately.

So I think a lot of the internet reviewers who are more "subjective focused" who love the new ML line may be falling for the old "louder is better" audio phenomenon. The MLs, due to the boosted bass and trebles, sound "better" because they're louder in the bass and treble region. It's interesting that we haven't seen (at least I haven't, as of my writing this) seen Klippel NFS measurements of this line from the likes of Erin's Audio Corner, or Amir from ASR. We can quibble with our own personal audio preferences differing from those (and other) reviewers, but there is definitely a value in seeing the Klippel NFS measurements of speakers.

I bet that once someone puts the F100 on the Klippel NFS, they'll find boosts in both the bass and the treble regions.

[davef]

I may or may not have been in the room when the B100s were demoed by Dave...

As someone who has listened to the F100 towers in multiple Best Buy/Magnolia listening rooms, A/B'ing it with other towers in their showroom, it literally sounds like the Loudness function was baked into the speakers.

For those who remember the loudness button in older A/V receivers from the 80's and earlier, it was designed to offset the old phenomenon of, as you lower the volume on speakers, the bass and upper treble fall off faster than the mids. So by pressing the loudness button, the older receivers just boosted the bass and treble (kind of like a smile shaped EQ). But you were only supposed to engage the loudness function at low volumes so that at those levels you got the bass and treble back. But if you kept it on at loud volumes, you just got bass and treble boosted inappropriately. That's what the new ML line sounds like to me. It sounds great at low to low-medium volumes, but put it at say 70db average (or higher) and then the bass (for the towers, as the bookshelves don't have the same bass extension) and the trebles are boosted inappropriately.

So I think a lot of the internet reviewers who are more "subjective focused" who love the new ML line may be falling for the old "louder is better" audio phenomenon. The MLs, due to the boosted bass and trebles, sound "better" because they're louder in the bass and treble region. It's interesting that we haven't seen (at least I haven't, as of my writing this) seen Klippel NFS measurements of this line from the likes of Erin's Audio Corner, or Amir from ASR. We can quibble with our own personal audio preferences differing from those (and other) reviewers, but there is definitely a value in seeing the Klippel NFS measurements of speakers.

I bet that once someone puts the F100 on the Klippel NFS, they'll find boosts in both the bass and the treble regions.

I didn't hear boosted bass, I heard a lack of bass combined with heavily boosted highs. Since Klippel NFS is unquestionably the new industry standard, maybe I should post the spin of the bookshelf? I am sure at some point Amir or Erin will get their hands on one but it might be a while.

[Beave]

I don't think you should post it - it might appear to some as bashing a competitor.

On the other hand, if it were to, oh, I don't know, get leaked out to a forum by somebody who happened to get a copy somehow, well....

[CarloM]

My boosted bass comment was meant only for the F100s I’ve heard in two Magnolias. It’s gotten to the point where I wondered if there was a sub inadvertently left on with only the F100 and not the other demo speakers in their room (there wasn’t, I checked them all).

Of course magnolias also use that crappy switcher system so maybe something was messed up in the settings.

[davef]

My boosted bass comment was meant only for the F100s I’ve heard in two Magnolias. It’s gotten to the point where I wondered if there was a sub inadvertently left on with only the F100 and not the other demo speakers in their room (there wasn’t, I checked them all).

Of course magnolias also use that crappy switcher system so maybe something was messed up in the settings.

Yes, I listened to the floorstanders on 2 occasions at Magnolia. Both times they had practically no deep bass, even the salesmen (2 of them) commented on that. The Kef R3 had much deeper bass. I'd prefer to listen to a set in our demo room, but after listening to the bookshelf versions in our demo room, I had the same impressions, extremely boosted and fatiguing highs, I just couldn't listen to them.

[davef]

I don't think you should post it - it might appear to some as bashing a competitor.

On the other hand, if it were to, oh, I don't know, get leaked out to a forum by somebody who happened to get a copy somehow, well....

Sage advice as always... So if someone is actually interested, please contact me privately.