Endgame Sierra Bookshelf?

[Mj30250]

First off, I don't think that 7-8 feet would be "too close" for the towers at all. It's not like you'd be anywhere near close enough for driver integration to fall apart. You'll still be able to adjust toe-in to taste in order to dial in the best soundstage/imaging/treble output at the MLP. The only real concern is whether your ears would be significantly below / above the tweeter while seated. This matters less and less the further out you go, but unless you have an unusual seating arrangement relative to the speakers, you'd likely be just fine.

Regarding your woofer question, what you ask is surely not impossible, but it would be quite difficult to pull off effectively in a small 2-way speaker. You're asking the woofer to maintain deep bass extension and high output while also effectively going high enough to cross to the RAAL ribbon (even the wide one) without seriously sacrificing directivity. That would likely involve a hefty premium due to the various challenges involved in engineering such a driver and crossover. Everything in speaker design involves compromises and tradeoffs.

Your least compromised solution here is to simply go for the ELX towers.

[N Boros]

First off, I don't think that 7-8 feet would be "too close" for the towers at all. It's not like you'd be anywhere near close enough for driver integration to fall apart. You'll still be able to adjust toe-in to taste in order to dial in the best soundstage/imaging/treble output at the MLP. The only real concern is whether your ears would be significantly below / above the tweeter while seated. This matters less and less the further out you go, but unless you have an unusual seating arrangement relative to the speakers, you'd likely be just fine.

Regarding your woofer question, what you ask is surely not impossible, but it would be quite difficult to pull off effectively in a small 2-way speaker. You're asking the woofer to maintain deep bass extension and high output while also effectively going high enough to cross to the RAAL ribbon (even the wide one) without seriously sacrificing directivity. That would likely involve a hefty premium due to the various challenges involved in engineering such a driver and crossover. Everything in speaker design involves compromises and tradeoffs.

Your least compromised solution here is to simply go for the ELX towers.

I’m kind of tall where my seated ear height is 42 inches off of the floor. If I recline then it is obviously a bit lower. I don’t have a measurement of my recloned ear height. I don’t notice much of a difference in timbre from sitting upright and being reclined from the front speakers (Sierra 2s), but I get partial obstructions on the side surround and rear height speakers. I tend to sit up with critical listening and recline with more casual listening. My Sierra 2s are on a 32 inch stand if I am remembering correctly, so the tweeter in the towers would be a bit lower, since the midrange is on top in the towers though.

You are right that the ELX towers would provide the least compromises, except that I just don’t need that much output at 7 to 8 feet away. I would much prefer, if there was a bookshelf speaker like I am describing at entry level Sierra tower pricing. But, as you say, perhaps asking a woofer to do all of what the LX and EX woofers can do is very difficult (expensive). I figured I’d ask to see if others would have such an interest. Probably a long shot, but I figured I’d ask.

[RMW]

Dave has used the higher end RAAL in a bookshelf before. As mentioned earlier, requires cabinet mods.

https://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sh...Game#post66952

[davef]

Endgame I'd say the Seas Diamond with the appropriate midwoofer...remove any what ifs.

We have built and sold a few pairs of these already, with the EX woofer and they are fantastic. Problem with the SEAS White Diamond is the expense. This would be an $8K / pair of speakers with this tweeter.

[davef]

I could be wrong, but I thought there were a handful of people that Dave has done custom speakers for with the 70-20XR in the Sierra bookshelf cabinet. I know one such person even had the Sierra tower midrange for the woofer with this upgraded tweeter. If so he can likely speak about how such a speaker would sound, in comparison.

Yes, we have built and sold many iterations of Sierra bookshelf speakers with the RAAL 70-20.

What I am more interested in would be a new woofer that has the best aspects of both the LX and EX woofers. In other words the detail and perfect match (directivity) with the RAAL ribbon tweeter AND the power, mid bass punch and extension of the LX woofer.

Not possible. I'll explain. A woofer like the LX requires a massive amount of force. To generate such force, the woofer cone must have quite a bit of moving mass. Force = Mass * Acceleration. This is just the opposite with the EX woofer, which is designed for fantastic mids and upper mids / lower highs etc. A design like the EX woofer requires low moving mass, high moving mass limits frequency extension due to inertial mass. Low moving mass lowers force, but has lower inertial mass thus higher frequency extension. This is one of the reasons why we have separate tweeters and woofers.

Our EX woofer is already the best compromise for this, still very good bass (although not near what the LX can produce) while also having fantastic extension and directivity.

[N Boros]

Yes, we have built and sold many iterations of Sierra bookshelf speakers with the RAAL 70-20.



Not possible. I'll explain. A woofer like the LX requires a massive amount of force. To generate such force, the woofer cone must have quite a bit of moving mass. Force = Mass * Acceleration. This is just the opposite with the EX woofer, which is designed for fantastic mids and upper mids / lower highs etc. A design like the EX woofer requires low moving mass, high moving mass limits frequency extension due to inertial mass. Low moving mass lowers force, but has lower inertial mass thus higher frequency extension. This is one of the reasons why we have separate tweeters and woofers.

Our EX woofer is already the best compromise for this, still very good bass (although not near what the LX can produce) while also having fantastic extension and directivity.

Thank you. This makes a lot of sense. I thought it might be too good to be true to hope for a woofer that can do all of those things. It seems that is the case since some of those characteristics are competing with one another.

I've been waiting until some of the dust settles on all of the upgraded products and new products that you have introduced. It makes the most sense to me to just upgrade my Sierra 2s to the 2EX V2, since I already have the RAAL ribbon tweeter, which I love. I can't imagine how they could sound much better, as is, but I'm looking forward to hearing what sounds like a big upgrade overall in sound quality. I'll also likely sell my CMT 340's from a different room to upgrade to either the new version or maybe try out the Sierra LX instead.