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Thread: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

  1. #111
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by bac2010 View Post
    Was repeating what ksr_sundar had used for fill percentage (in previous post). Floor is carpet and I added spikes that came with the stands. If there is no compelling need to add fill since resonance reduction is minimal then I'll wait. 340SE2's sound great as is.
    Ahh...got it.
    FWIW, I had custom stands built for my Sierra bookshelves. Here's an older picture. Each stand is filled to the top with play sand from Home Depot and weight about 60lbs. I primarily filled them because my kids were younger and we had a dog, and I didn't want to worry much about them being knocked over. The stands must be close to 15 years old now. Here's a link to the pic:
    https://changpics.smugmug.com/Other/...es/i-TR8Lc5j/A
    Last edited by curtis; 02-07-2023 at 06:59 AM.
    -curtis

  2. #112
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    Ahh...got it.
    FWIW, I had custom stands built for my Sierra bookshelves. Here's an older picture. Each stand is filled to the top with play sand from Home Depot and weight about 60lbs. I primarily filled them because my kids were younger and we had a dog, and I didn't want to worry much about them being knocked over. The stands must be close to 15 years old now. Here's a link to the pic:
    https://changpics.smugmug.com/Other/...es/i-TR8Lc5j/A
    Those are holding up well!

    I filled my stands only until the resonance/ringing was gone when I knuckle tapped the upright metal tubes. I don't have rugrats/pets near them so no worry of toppling.
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  3. #113
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    Ahh...got it.
    FWIW, I had custom stands built for my Sierra bookshelves. Here's an older picture. Each stand is filled to the top with play sand from Home Depot and weight about 60lbs. I primarily filled them because my kids were younger and we had a dog, and I didn't want to worry much about them being knocked over. The stands must be close to 15 years old now. Here's a link to the pic:
    https://changpics.smugmug.com/Other/...es/i-TR8Lc5j/A
    Those are absolutely gorgeous stands. I have a pair of Sierra 2s in the natural finish, where I would love the look of them. Still need to upgrade to V2 at some point, so upgrading stands isnÂ’t a huge priority.

    IÂ’m surprised Ascend hasnÂ’t tried to have something like this to stock. I imagine they would sell quite well. Though maybe the combined cost with the Sierra bookshelf speakers would be too close to to the towers where the stands no longer make sense cost-wise. I bet the 340s would look great on those too though, where it wouldn’t necessarily just be the Sierra bookshelf speakers in a natural finish that would look good on them.

  4. #114
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Those are holding up well!

    I filled my stands only until the resonance/ringing was gone when I knuckle tapped the upright metal tubes. I don't have rugrats/pets near them so no worry of toppling.
    They have been awesome....Sierra-1's to Sierra-2's to Sierra-LX's.

    Jason did a great job on them. Since they are bamboo ply, there was no resonance/ringing to begin with. Metal stands like yours are a different animal, but still not measurable from what I have read.
    -curtis

  5. #115
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by N Boros View Post
    Those are absolutely gorgeous stands. I have a pair of Sierra 2s in the natural finish, where I would love the look of them. Still need to upgrade to V2 at some point, so upgrading stands isnÂ’t a huge priority.

    IÂ’m surprised Ascend hasnÂ’t tried to have something like this to stock. I imagine they would sell quite well. Though maybe the combined cost with the Sierra bookshelf speakers would be too close to to the towers where the stands no longer make sense cost-wise.
    I was very lucky.
    An (former) Ascend owner was also a woodshop teacher, and he offered to make some stands for people, so I bit on it. Shipping was not cheap from Ohio to California, but the stands are awesome, and the fact I have been able to use them through the upgrades is a bonus!
    -curtis

  6. #116
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    They have been awesome....Sierra-1's to Sierra-2's to Sierra-LX's.

    Jason did a great job on them. Since they are bamboo ply, there was no resonance/ringing to begin with. Metal stands like yours are a different animal, but still not measurable from what I have read.
    Maybe not audible, but I had an issue with the metal cover on my last preamp (Parasound P5) resonating/ringing at certain frequencies. I ended up removing the cover and adding damping material to the underside. It may have been due to the low frequencies travelling through the floor from the subwoofers and vibrating the equipment rack, but not sure.
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  7. #117
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TimW View Post
    Thank you! I was not sure if this was a common practice, nice to know it has a name. Even among people who adjust their system based on measurements it doesn't seem to be common. I found some of Wayne Parham's (of Pi speakers) posts about it and what I am thinking of doing he refers to as helper woofers or a 'detached 2.5 way.' Practically the same thing as flanking subs but using smaller woofer subs that can play up into the low midrange. I could use my DIY 8" subs for this (RSS210HF-4) but I can't really place them the way Wayne recommends due to floor space limitations.

    Now what I am thinking of doing is taking the TP-24 stands, sealing them, installing a couple of woofers in each, and adding some stuffing. I read they are made of only 1/2" thick mdf but maybe with some simple square dowl bracing they will be stiff enough. I have a pair of Peerless HDS-835025 woofers that look like they would work well in that size sealed enclosure.
    Judging by the continued posts of filling up your stands with sand or cat litter...I guess some here equated floor bounce with speaker stands bouncing across the floor or vibrating lol.

    UPDATE/CLARIFICATION:
    After reading Dave's excellent post below, just wanted to concur with everything he stated. Do not try to get rid of the floor bounce from the mains, don't modify the mains/stands, don't add any type of crossover to them, etc.
    I only suggested the flanking subs since they can help with audible issues in the transition area (but they must be implemented correctly, i.e. not located in the mains or thier stands). Sorry for the OT stray, was just relaying something that might help, and is easy to implement/try.
    Last edited by rvsixer; 02-08-2023 at 04:21 AM. Reason: Clarification

  8. #118
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by TimW View Post
    In my current setup with the CMT-340 SE2s there is a dip I measure in my in-room response between 100-200Hz. I have had this issue in multiple rooms with different speakers and I believe it is caused by floor bounce. With different stand heights and bookshelf speaker sizes the dip ends up in a slightly different location or severity but it is always there. Multiple subwoofers help to smooth out the frequency response below 80Hz but they don't do anything above that crossover point of course. I am really enjoying my current system but I can't help but feel like a little bit of mid-bass punch is missing, especially when I look at the measurements.

    I have read that tower speakers do not have this issue or at least have it to a lesser extent. This is because most towers have multiple woofers handling bass and those woofers are at multiple heights. So while there are still floor-bounce nulls, they are spread out over multiple frequencies and one woofers null frequency will be filled by the others to result in a flatter frequency response. Much like multiple subwoofers but in the mid-bass region rather than sub-bass. I have also read about people using small 8" subwoofers for mid-bass from say 50Hz - 150Hz to bridge the gap between their subwoofers and monitors. The theory is that the small subs have a higher quality mid-bass than even a 6" mid-woofer but I believe the fact that the 8" sub sits on the floor is a large part of the benefit since it significantly reduces floor bounce.

    Now currently I do own a couple of 8" DIY subs I could use to supplement my system but what I don't have is floor space to place them. They would have to sit on top of my 12" subs which would not be ideal for sound or appearances as far as I'm concerned. What would look great, and I wish I had ordered, is the TP-24 Pedestal stands. I like how my CMT-340s look on my current steel stands but if they were sitting on top of a pedestal full of mid-bass drivers that would look even better. So I'm thinking of possibly buying the TP-24 stands and modifying them to be mid-bass stands, although I doubt their construction would lend themselves to that without significant reinforcement. I was also considering purchasing some used CMT-340s and using them just as mid-bass stands, with an active crossover of course.

    So I was wondering Dave, do these seem like bad ideas? Would the TP-24 stand be a good basis for modification into this sort of thing? Have you ever considered selling such a stand for turning these mini-towers into full floor standing towers?
    Yes, this is floor bounce and this reflection should be left alone. It is not advisable to attempt to correct for this by boosting a frequency range. This reflection is determined by the distance of the driver to the floor, the distance from your ear to the floor, and the distance from your ear to the driver. Even a slight change in listener positioning will have dramatic effects on this reflection, such that if you attempt to correct for it by boosting this frequency, you will cause more damage than good by ruining the overall in-room response. Best method to reduce this dip is to throw a bunch of thick pillows on the floor, located halfway between you and the speaker.

    So I was wondering Dave, do these seem like bad ideas? Would the TP-24 stand be a good basis for modification into this sort of thing? Have you ever considered selling such a stand for turning these mini-towers into full floor standing towers?
    I also do not recommend this. You can't simply add drivers to an empty cabinet and assume it will turn out well. Those midbass drivers would have to have a very steep low pass filter at a decently low frequency with the proper Q to even hope to get them to blend and properly sum with the bass response of the 340SE2 (or any speaker). This isn't a simple task, and you could not do it passively - it would have to be an active crossover with proper phase compensation and its own amplifier, and if that is even accomplished, you would then have to high pass the woofers in the 340.

    Trust me, leave that floor bounce alone - it averages out with spatial averaging and as such, you really don't even hear it.
    .
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  9. #119
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Another educational post from the GOAT himself!

    This is why I hesitate to take REW measurements. I see some weird response stuff and then think there are flaws to fix, but I am probably not even hearing any effects from it. Measurements are a great way to see what is happening in your room though. I will go back into my MiniDSP at some point and try to improve my dual subwoofer response, but it sounds pretty great now and I worry that I'll make it worse!
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  10. #120
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    Default Re: And here it is, the 340SE2!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Our CMT-340SE has long been one of our most revered products. First introduced back in late 2002, and then later upgraded to the SE version in 2006, our 340’s have remained extremely popular with a customer satisfaction rate averaging over 99%.

    It has been said by many that our 340’s are one of the best bang-for-buck products in the audio industry. We agree.

    Things are about to change, our 340 will no longer be considered a budget speaker, offering a level of performance that can easily compete with other manufacturer’s products at any price point.

    Taking full advantage of the capabilities our Klippel NFS offers, we spent months analyzing not only the fully assembled 340SE, but deep analysis of each individual component. Our NFS was subjected to near 24/7 usage over the course of several months, logging hundreds of thousands of individual measurements. All these results were then analyzed using advanced proprietary modeling resulting in a set of parameters that would provide MAJOR performance improvements.

    I am most proud to introduce our new Klippel NFS optimized CMT-340SE2

    Attachment 2420

    Every component of the 340SE has been optimized and redesigned for a single purpose, performance.

    Woofer:
    The original 340SE woofers were fully designed by me, from the unique cone material, damping treatment, motor system, to even the basket frame. These woofers served us well for 20 years, but analysis technology has greatly improved since then and we are now proudly and firmly at the forefront of this emerging science.

    As good as the original 340SE woofers were, our analysis revealed areas where overall performance could be improved.

    We were able to reduce moving mass resulting in +2dB higher efficiency and better transient accuracy. To compensate for the lighter mass, we went with a different damping treatment for the cone which provides better overall damping and stiffness, resulting in improved directivity, less cone resonance and lower distortion. Overall frequency response is smoother with improved directivity.

    Tweeter:
    To match the now higher efficiency of the woofers, it was necessary to change the motor system of the original 340SE tweeter. SEAS recommended a more powerful magnet, no ferrofluid in the gap, and a slightly shorter voice coil. The results were exceptional, the new tweeter looks the same from the front (same excellent SEAS textile dome) but this version has higher efficiency, lower distortion, a more linear frequency response and improved high frequency extension. It sounds smoother and does significantly better with complex passages compared to the previous version.

    Cabinet:
    To reduce cabinet resonance, we have gone with a much higher density MDF resulting in the unassembled cabinet weighing 40% more than the previous version. We have also changed the port tuning and gone with a flush mounted flared rear port tube which results in less port noise.

    While not a performance improvement, we have also gone with a cleaner more modern look with a truly seamless cabinet design combined with fully magnet grilles. The visual improvements are stunning!

    Crossover:
    They say a picture is worth a thousand words – so here you go:


    This is a massive 14 element advanced NFS optimized crossover that just barely even fits into the cabinet. You typically see crossovers of this size and complexity in large 3- or 4-way tower speakers selling for $3K and higher.

    In summary, the 340SE2 now has a sensitivity of 92dB anechoic, 96dB typical in-room. This firmly places it into the category of high efficiency, but without any of the drawbacks of HE speakers. It is a rather unique entry. Excellent dynamics, very low distortion, wide horizontal dispersion and extreme accuracy and neutrality, optimized for an exceptionally accurate in-room response.

    So how does it sound?

    In a word, controlled and extremely dynamic – even at ear-shattering volume levels. Midbass is more pronounced and punchier, mids are warmer – lusher, smoother and less in your face compared to the 340SE. Highs are more detailed and clearer with much better control.

    The overall presentation is much more spacious, easier to listen to and the overall balance from lows to highs is more natural. Vocals sound great and are not as forward, giving the 340SE2 a good sense of depth. Every performance aspect has been greatly improved aside from bass extension (which remains the same).

    Did I mention the price tag?

    We are in tough times, especially for manufacturing. Nearly all speaker manufacturers are looking for ways to reduce manufacturing costs while simultaneously raising retail prices in order to maintain their profit margins. We have done something most economists would consider a bad move, we have completely ignored the state of our economy and general business recommendations, and significantly increased our manufacturing costs for the 340SE2.

    We designed the 340SE2 to be competitive against everything offered from our many competitors regardless of price points or category (tower, bookshelf, high efficiency, music speaker, home theater speaker etc.). This is THE EVERYTHING speaker, terrific at everything you could ever throw at it. We would likely sell a ton of these if we retailed it at $999 per pair, or even $1499/pair – but times are tough for everyone right now, so we have made a decision that is for sure to truly anger our accountant…

    From now through the end of the year – we are going to offer the 340SE2 for only $698 per pair + shipping. For a Klippel NFS designed speaker that delivers this level of performance at this price point is, to be perfectly blunt, simply unheard of.

    Please, DO NOT draw assumptions as to the 340SE2 performance due to its ridiculously low introductory price. The 340SE2 costs us about twice as much to manufacture compared to the 340SE and we will absolutely be raising prices very soon, possibly by a large amount. We wanted to do something special for this holiday season and here it is.

    Please use the 340SE2’s excellent measurements to do any comparisons, its retail pricing is by no means a reflection of performance or component quality.

    The 340SE2 is a true performance benchmark at under $1K/pair. Please get orders in quickly – 340SE2 will start shipping in an estimated 3-weeks.

    Oh - did I mention low distortion?

    Attachment 2421

    Attachment 2422

    At 96dB SPL, THD is averaging ~ 0.3% (50dB less than the fundamental), even below 100Hz. This is a remarkable achievement for any speaker at any price.

    As always we thank you for your interest!

    Will an upgrade kit be made available?

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