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Thread: L12 or F12??!

  1. #11
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    Mar 2004
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    Default Re: L12 or F12??!

    Quote Originally Posted by theophile View Post
    Ed & Robert,

    Appreciate sharing of your experiences on bass management! I never got into any of the automatic digital evaluation/equalization sources for room management (not sure I ever will). Being an older audiophile, I just use my analog ears (still testing well below the 20db normal human hearing), test CD's (20Hz-20KHz sweeps) and a wide genre of very familiar music! To my sweep spot ears, there is virtually no peaks/nulls in the full range response (till it gets beyond 15kHz, my current upper hearing limits), thus no reason for any room equalization! Guess you could qualify my music playback achievements as the old fashion "SWAG" methodology, with a "KISS" of attitude!

    Ed, your descriptions, "super clean, detailed, powerful, seemingly endless headroom" is what I have Now with my current single sub in my 990cf listening room! There really is nothing I Need to improve what I have in musical bass (tonality, slam, speed, tightness, accuracy, depth...it's all there), but Want to make a Visual set-up change in my very small dedicated music room. This will dictate "2" smaller subs (one behind each S-2EX) and a small -center channel placed- equipment rack. Again, all for mostly Aesthetic reasons (and hopefully keeping the sub performance I already have)!

    My question remains, should I get the L12's or the F12's?

    Ted
    I hear you! I had what I considered tight, tuneful, powerful bass with just the 1 sub as well. It wasn't until I measured the response that I discovered a huge dip. Never knew it was missing because I never had it. I agree that from 80hz & up my frequency response looks pretty darn good. Bass is a different animal when it comes to room interaction and really, most of the time, needs correction. Once I was able to identify what was actually going on in my room, I was able to correct for it. By boosting bass output with multiple subs, I was able to raise those dips enough to allow me to then create an EQ curve in REW that cut out the nasty peaks that muddy bass detail and speed. I never expected the results after doing that to make such a big difference.

    I understand being happy with what you have. You will be richer and happier if you don't worry about improving it. The pitfall of this hobby!

    I'd at least recommend trying to take measurements of what's going on in your room, just as a baseline.
    Ed

  2. #12
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    Default Re: L12 or F12??!

    Just realized I did not try to answer your question regarding which sub to get.

    I've never listened to the L12. If I did not already have (1) F12, I probably would have got 2 L12's just for budgetary reasons. I think with (2) L12's you will have plenty of output. Keep in mind, the F12 digs to 14Hz while the L12 is rated to 18Hz at the -3db point.
    Last edited by Mag_Neato; 06-09-2021 at 10:14 AM.
    Ed

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    S.E. La. - USA
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    200

    Smile Re: L12 or F12??!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Just realized I did not try to answer your question regarding which sub to get.

    I've never listened to the L12. If I did not already have (1) F12, I probably would have got 2 L12's just for budgetary reasons. I think with (2) L12's you will have plenty of output. Keep in mind, the F12 digs to 14Hz while the L12 is rated to 18Hz at the -3db point.
    Ed,

    I've no doubt that either two sets (2-L12's or 2-F12's) will have way more output in my small room than I'll ever use! Musicality is my main focus and goal and if I can maintain that criteria with the budget minded L12's, than that'll be my route! However, if the F12's will be more musical, then I'm willing to absorb that additional investment!!

    Thanks for the link, Robert...have reposted my question HERE!

    Ted
    Last edited by theophile; 06-09-2021 at 10:27 AM.
    Sierra-2EX, Axiom EP 500, Emotiva USP-1, Emotiva UPA-2, Phillips CD880 (dedicated 2.1 listening room)!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    711

    Default Re: L12 or F12??!

    no worries, Ted. I saw that you posted there and already have several replies / opinions (and at least one more option to consider).

    Good luck with your decision and let us know what you chose. I know it's difficult - I went through the same process with my E15's...versus F15s..versus F18s. I knew I wanted sealed as I believe they are more musical (although the Rythmik ported from what I've read are very musical, as well). Weight / size were important, as well -- something I could move easily myself (not as young as I used to be). I do wish I had bought them at the same time - the standard amp on the current iteration is different than my original. Not a big deal (except for the OCD in me). Maybe I'll get a 3rd - use the two newest in the front for music, put the 3rd behind my seat for additional tactile feel during the occasional movie,

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Somewhere in the Boston area
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    168

    Default Re: L12 or F12??!

    I have owned a L12 for a few years now, together with a pair of CMT-340SE as my mains, crossed at 80Hz and driven by an Emotiva Fusion 8100 AVR, in a 5.1 configuration.
    I wanted a "music first" system that had also decent performances for movies, and I believe to have achieved that goal.
    The system is in the family room, hardly optimized, but thanks to carpet, rugs, a very stuffed couch and the mains placed a few feet away from the side walls, it sounds great to my ears.
    The room is approximately 18x14, with speakers on one of the long sides, with L and R mains spaced about 8' and listening distance is around 10'.
    The L12 is positioned slightly to the right of the right main.
    Despite the room having two openings, to the left of the left speaker and to the right of the right speaker (to kitchen and front door foyer respectively) and the modest power of the Emotiva, the 340s sensitivity and the L12 power and extension make up for that quite well.
    What I really like of the L12 is that it does not "fake it". It seamlessly extends the low frequency range, it plays deep if there is content down there, otherwise it does not intrude.
    It is fantastic with music and when I watch a movie I bump the gain by 3dB with the sub trim of the AVR remote to add a bit more bite.
    As mentioned by another poster, the L12 goes down to 18Hz at the -3dB point and I have measured audible output down to ~15Hz. One of the advantages of a sealed sub is that it gracefully slopes down as it reaches the limit of its frequency response.
    You won't be left wanting by the L12 for music. For movies, it may not have the brute force output of a larger, ported sub, but if the LFE channel has content down in the 15-20Hz range you will ear and feel it 😄.
    Having two L12 is more about smoothing response than adding power, although the additional 3dB of output can come handy, especially in the form or more headroom and less strain on each sub.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    S.E. La. - USA
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    200

    Exclamation Re: L12 or F12??!

    Thanks to everyone for their "Sub Experience/Suggestions" input! No doubt, the Rythmik sealed Servo Subs would have been my next route, but believe I just created another solution that works for me with what I already have...See HERE!

    Ted
    Sierra-2EX, Axiom EP 500, Emotiva USP-1, Emotiva UPA-2, Phillips CD880 (dedicated 2.1 listening room)!

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