-
Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
It has been a long time coming… 18 months ago I sent a simple email to a humble and honest electrical engineer requesting some information about his unique products. Time passed and I got to know this engineer well and quickly came to realize that he and I shared some unique traits; a true passion for sound quality, and of even more importance, an honesty and integrity rarely found in this industry.
That initial email led to hundreds of correspondences, months of testing and negotiations that would make even the most seasoned politicians cringe. After surveying our customer base, the overwhelming majority desired a subwoofer that placed sound quality as the highest priority. Size, output and looks all took a backseat to performance.
You asked for it and together with someone I am proud to call my friend, we have delivered it to you in spades.
We are honored to now carry the new line of Rythmik Direct Servo subwoofers. I have spent countless hours testing and measuring these units, tearing them apart component by component and most importantly, simply listening to them. As some of you know, I have been involved with subwoofers since their early days (22+ yrs ago). I have shied away from introducing our own line simply because of how the subwoofer market has changed since the early days. Today, it is all about inexpensive amplification – which manufacturer can obtain the most wattage at the least cost and then develop a woofer to make best use of this power. Make no mistake about it, the amplifiers and woofers used in the majority of subwoofers out there are far from what I or anyone in the know would consider “audiophile” quality. They are designed for maximum output at the last expense.
Rythmik subwoofers are a different breed altogether. Every component is designed for sound quality first. Even without their patented Direct Servo technology, which brings sound quality to an unmatched level, the amplifier and woofer are leagues above any competing units (and yes, I have a factory full of competing subwoofers to prove it ;) ).
I can go on and on about these units and how they are the perfect match to our Sierra-1, but rather than have me ramble on and on, I want to introduce you to my dear friend, Chih-Shun (Brian) Ding. I must make one additional point, Brian is not an audio hobbyist turn subwoofer designer. Unlike many subwoofer designers these days, Brian has a PHD in Electrical Engineering from USC and you simply won’t find a more knowledgeable engineer or someone so willing to share his passion and intellect with anyone interested.
This forum section will be dedicated to Rythmik subwoofers and it is here where you can ask questions and get direct answers from Brian himself. All I ask is that you show the same patience and respect that you have given me over the years. Since one of the goals here is to create a section whereby anyone can find more detailed info regarding Rythmik subwoofers, please post new questions in new separate threads. Brian will say hello later today and do his best to answer questions.
Brian, it has been my sincere pleasure and honor, let me be the first to welcome you!
Enjoy!!!
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Congratulations Dave! The subs look terrific and it's nice to see a long project come to fruition! I have just have to keep saving up for one.... The prices as always with Ascend offerings look extremely competitive. I can't wait to read some reviews.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
well... this is an interesting development... :)
i don't suppose we could get some custom veneers? a pair of those 15's would find their way into my room if i could get a bamboo veneer to match the sierra's... :D
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Hi Dave,
It's great to finally hear the subwoofer news. I have waited years for you to announce something before purchasing from some other company.
Can't wait to hear more details from Brian!
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
How exciting! Too bad I just bought my Epik six months ago or I'd be jumping all over this.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Interesting News
It will be great for people to purchase Ascend speakers in a package complete with subwoofer. :D
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Wow. Very cool.
Brian is a great guy. He worked with Brian Bunge to tune the rythmik amp specifically for the custom sub Brian built for me years ago.
Congrats on the new product. Now I know where to get my next sub if I ever need an upgrade.
Derek
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Just when I thought I was putting the subwoofer upgrade to bed, then this comes along :eek::eek: Now, what to do!!!!!!
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
This is great news......from the last couple of months, you all know what I think of the Rythmik sound.
Congrats Dave...good move!
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Need a package price for those who have already purchased Ascend speakers or for those who wish to put together a system. And...a price for duals...must have duals.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
congrats dave and brian! i have heard a lot of good things about Rythmik in the past, and i look forward to hearing more details about these subs. i'm pretty sure one of them will find its way into my home in the not too distant future...
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Congratulations to both Ascend and Rhythmik!
It's funny, I've been lurking on Rhythmik's website ever since Dave made a nice comment about them in the "talking about subwoofers" thread. Been plotting & scheming ever since, and I can say with all honesty that the D-15 is exactly what I want.
Well, almost...any chance that will be offered in the walnut finish? Or better yet...bamboo veneer?
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
very interesting development... I'm not familiar with these subs, anyone want to give their opinion on them? What are the differences between the 3 and how would they compare to HSU (i have a VTF2-MK3 paired with my sierras)?
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clarke68
Or better yet...bamboo veneer?
ok dave, that's two of us now who want the bamboo... :D
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccotenj
ok dave, that's two of us now who want the bamboo... :D
Y'know ccotenj, Dave probably has a couple laying around from all the experimenting he was doing. How long do you think we'll need to camp out in this thread before he offers them to us? :cool:
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Hi Dave,
Will the subs be available for local pickup to save on shipping. Also, any pre-order specials :) to go with this fantastic announcement. I'm in the market for a pair of HSU ULS-15's but that might change real soon.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
called it! Sorta. :p
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...6&postcount=12
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...1&postcount=16
can't wait to order one!
edit: also would love a bamboo veneer if there is any way to do that. otherwise it might be piano black for me.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Dave will be be carrying the F12 (non SE)? What is the diiference besides the finish?
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clarke68
Y'know ccotenj, Dave probably has a couple laying around from all the experimenting he was doing. How long do you think we'll need to camp out in this thread before he offers them to us? :cool:
kinda like jake and elwood going to get mr. fabulous...
"how much for the bamboo sub? how much for your little subs?"...
:D
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccotenj
kinda like jake and elwood going to get mr. fabulous...
Sell me your children!!! :cool:
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clarke68
Sell me your children!!! :cool:
LOL! still one of my favorite movies of all time... :)
but seriously... i wouldn't really even need the 15's... i'd settle for dual 12's in bamboo... put one in the front and one in the back of the room... i could get a reasonable chunk of the cost back by selling my paradigm...
it's his own fault that we want the bamboo finish... :p
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Very nice, but two weeks too late for me. :-((
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ccotenj
it's his own fault that we want the bamboo finish... :p
Serious. If he didn't make speakers that look so freaking cool, we wouldn't want subwoofers to match them!
Actually, what I like best about the D15 is that it could pass as an end table. Of course, I still want two...gotta have symmetry. :eek:
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
This is great news!!! I almost pulled the trigger to go with the HSU UL-15's but decided to wait until I hear more about what Dave will be offering. Anyone know how the F-15 compares to the UL-15's? Any chance of getting the F-15 in piano black (F-15 SE) to match our PB Sierras?
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blake1214
This is great news!!! I almost pulled the trigger to go with the HSU UL-15's but decided to wait until I hear more about what Dave will be offering. Anyone know how the D-15 compares to the UL-15's? Any chance of getting the D-15 in piano black (D-15 SE) to match our PB Sierras?
Piano black IS the standard finish.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
Piano black IS the standard finish.
Sorry, I meant the F15. Right now, it's only in walnut or black oak.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blake1214
Sorry, I meant the F15. Right now, it's only in walnut or black oak.
Ah. The finish is most likely the main factor in the price difference between the F15 and the D15. Other than one being front firing and the other down firing. I would think they are equal performance-wise.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
Ah. The finish is most likely the main factor in the price difference between the F15 and the D15. Other than one being front firing and the other down firing. I would think they are equal performance-wise.
Yup, since both uses the same components. The reason I'm trying to stay away from down firing subs is because I live in a high rise condo. I currently have the Sierras matched with a SVS PC plus. I don't know the physics behind it but tested with my neighbors downstairs using down firing vs front firing subs. They are able to hear the bass travel of the SVS downfiring a lot more in their unit even though it sounds the same in my condo. The weird thing is, the PC plus even has a base plate. So to prevent myself from worrying so much everytime I watch a movie with bass, I've decided to just get 2 front firing subs. I would definitely want it in PB finish to go with my PB Sierras though.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Hi Dave,
I know this is kind of early but I have to ask. Would you consider making a front firing sub with an 15" driver in PB (F15SE)? This woofer is too pretty to be pointed downwards and not seen. I want to see this woofer move when it shakes my home.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blake1214
Yup, since both uses the same components. The reason I'm trying to stay away from down firing subs is because I live in a high rise condo. I currently have the Sierras matched with a SVS PC plus. I don't know the physics behind it but tested with my neighbors downstairs using down firing vs front firing subs. They are able to hear the bass travel of the SVS downfiring a lot more in their unit even though it sounds the same in my condo. The weird thing is, the PC plus even has a base plate. So to prevent myself from worrying so much everytime I watch a movie with bass, I've decided to just get 2 front firing subs. I would definitely want it in PB finish to go with my PB Sierras though.
Weird, I always thought it wouldn't make a difference, most bass being omnidirectional and all. You could try getting a subdude to place underneath.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ebh
Weird, I always thought it wouldn't make a difference, most bass being omnidirectional and all. You could try getting a subdude to place underneath.
Thought about that too. But keep in mind, my condo is a miniscule 927 sq ft. If you've seen these subs in person, you'll know adding another few inches to their already water tank dimension will truly warf my living area.
Besides, that won't give me an excuse to upgrade my HT. :cool:
Dave, besides the F15 in PB finish, any plans on a package discount for returning customers or people who buys more than one sub?
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
I'm glad to see that this time, a choice was made to go with a sub that focuses primarily on sound quality. I hope this is the focal point of comments about this sub at 3rd party forums like AVS.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Thanks for the introduction from David. Direct servo subwoofers may be relatively new for most members here. So please feel free to ask questions. I should be able to visit to forum once to twice a day. If you don't get reply in a timely manner, feel free to send me PM to remind me. Secondly, my writing style can be very dry and too technical. If that is the case, please feel free to remind me.
Two questions that I have heard so far:
1) F12 is same as F12SE except finish. Currently we have very limited inventory for F12.
2) F15 piano finish is still under evaluation. So I cannot give definitive answer in terms of which driver/amplifier will be used.
DirectServo subwoofers have been in the market for quite a few years, although in a slightly different form. The design objective has always been musicality first and within that boundary try to get the highest possible SPL. With that being said, for majority of customers I am pretty confident that the SPL output is sufficient for HT usage. Also, we have a very flexible extension filter setting that allow us the trade off SPL with extension. For those who would like to get higher SPL, please set that to 28hz/low damping, or 20hz/low damping. For the most musical sound, 14hz high damping is what most will use.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Welcome to the forum, Brian!
It'll be great to have you around...I always appreciate a chance to pick the brain of people who know how to get good sound. Question for you about the following quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RythmikAudio
The design objective has always been musicality first and within that boundary try to get the highest possible SPL. For the most musical sound, 14hz high damping is what most will use.
What is "musicality" from an engineering perspective? How do you determine when a subwoofer is "musical" or not?
This term gets used quite a bit in the audio press without a clear definition. I use it often myself to describe sound that is realistic & emotionally engaging. I know it when I hear it, but I don't necessarily know when I don't hear it (hopefully that makes sense). Still, I have no idea how it could be produced (or not) or measured using the tools you have as an engineer, or what would determine the "boundaries" of musicality that you mention.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clarke68
Welcome to the forum, Brian!
It'll be great to have you around...I always appreciate a chance to pick the brain of people who know how to get good sound. Question for you about the following quote:
What is "musicality" from an engineering perspective? How do you determine when a subwoofer is "musical" or not?
This term gets used quite a bit in the audio press without a clear definition. I use it often myself to describe sound that is realistic & emotionally engaging. I know it when I hear it, but I don't necessarily know when I don't hear it (hopefully that makes sense). Still, I have no idea how it could be produced (or not) or measured using the tools you have as an engineer, or what would determine the "boundaries" of musicality that you mention.
Great question Clarke and I too look forward to Brian's response.
For me, I define "musicality" when referring to a subwoofer as the unit's ability to present tonal accuracy and, more importantly, to be able to reproduce and clearly distinguish multiple tones at the same time. For example, reproduction of a bass guitar note at the same time as a pipe organ. This is more complicated than it might seem due to high-excursion demands where the woofer loses motor force and control. Imagine a woofer reproducing a 20Hz tone with massive excursion demands while also having to reproduce a 60Hz tone at the same time. The 20Hz tone can have a tremendous negative impact on that more subtle 60Hz tone, especially at high output levels, where the 60Hz tone will suffer a loss of detail or be “glossed over" completely. Often referred to as "one note bass".
One note bass is often quite adequate for home theater because most people are more concerned with impact and room rumbling deep bass and they don’t care about subtle details (nothing really subtle about a train wreck ;) ) However, this is not acceptable for music listening, IMO, where much of the music detail can be lost. It is in this area where Direct Servo excels, the amplifier is constantly monitoring both the velocity and excursion of the woofer and errors are instantly corrected at the speed of light, which is faster than sound so they are corrected before you hear them.
Imagine shooting a high-power rifle at two distinct targets and you must fire each shot within a millisecond of each other. The very best rifleman might be able to hit that first target, but the kick of the first shot will prevent any chance of that second shot reaching the target. What if that rifleman had to fire 5 or 6 shots within 1 or 2 milliseconds? What a mess. Now imagine if the flight of each of those bullets was controlled by a high speed computer such that they would be directed to the target regardless of any external variables or operator error. That is the difference servo control represents.
The woofer is precisely controlled and every note is reproduced cleanly without a loss of detail. The result is what I define as "musicality" :D
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clarke68
What is "musicality" from an engineering perspective? How do you determine when a subwoofer is "musical" or not?
This term gets used quite a bit in the audio press without a clear definition. I use it often myself to describe sound that is realistic & emotionally engaging. I know it when I hear it, but I don't necessarily know when I don't hear it (hopefully that makes sense). Still, I have no idea how it could be produced (or not) or measured using the tools you have as an engineer, or what would determine the "boundaries" of musicality that you mention.
My 5th grade son has been learning piano for about 7 years now. I constantly comparing between how he and his teacher playing the same piece of music and try to communicate with him what he should pay attention to when he practices at home. This analysis mode, plus other experiences listening to stereo systems makes me think more about musicality. For me, musicality is the correct combination of contrast (some call it dynamics), articulation, and pace that give us goosebumps and make us tap our foot. Our company's name should remind you this :-) Musicality is not the same as sound quality where it is more about the texture of the sound even though they can be related in sound systems. It is like my son and his teacher playing on the same piano. Sound quality wise, the two are exactly the same, and yet one is more musical than another. Another example is that a Yamaha piano can be as musical as a Steinway in the right hands and yet their sound texture is very different. I have heard some good sound systems with pretty good sound texture and yet it fails to convey the musicality (for instance my ULD15-II).
To reproduce the correct contrast in a sound system, it needs to have the same monotonicity time over time. Low memory effect is the key here. In my son's playing, he has a weak 4th and 5th fingers. So whenever he uses 3rd finger on the current note, you can expect 50% of the time, the next note to be played not as loud as it should be. That is a form of memory effect. That is, the strength of current note depends on the past history of his fingering position. Even though in sound systems, the memory effect is not as bad as in my son's case, But it can still be quite audible. In audio's history, we have 16ohms LS3/5A as a proof. The 16ohms LS3/5A was a success for BBC. Later they come up with a new revision with 8ohms impedance. However, the sound was audibly less dynamic (when I sold my LS3/5A, some potential buyers told me they were only interested in the 16ohm version and mine is not). For those not knowing the inside story may think 16ohms is less a burden to the amplifier and therefore produces a better sound. Actually it is not the case, the root cause was later traced to the new surround material on the 8ohm version. That surround material has a pretty high "creep" effect which is a form of memory effect. In speakers there are at least two forms of memory effects: one is thermal and one is mechanical, such as spider/surround.
Articulation is more related to the time domain response with minimal ringing and minimal boxy sound. One note can be clearly separated from the next notes. In my son's playing, he needs to lift his fingers higher. In sound system, the sound needs to start and stop very fast. The start related to (BL)^2/Re, and the stop is determined by the Q value. A boxy sound from the enclosure can easily make the sound muddy.
Pace again is largely determined by the memory effects. In my sons playing, his 4th and 5th finger is not only weaker, but also slightly slower.
In conclusion, we have a couple of things here: 1) low memory effect, 2) low Q value for the system, and 3) minimal boxy sound. It is not a coincident that our servo subwoofers address all of them.
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Welcome, Brian! I have been enjoying my DIY'd DS12 for over a year now. I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me on the phone regarding the proper amount of polyfil to use in my enclosure and other questions about the operation of the sub.
I noticed on the new subs here that a 1-band PEQ has been included as well as a defeatable rumble filter. I was curious if the power output of the amp has been increased (370W) over the amp I have from a year ago without the PEQ/rumble filter? Also, has the driver changed since then?
Just curious. I am completely happy with the performance, but if there is an upgrade available............:D
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Welcome Brain!
In the other thread we chatted about not using the downfiring D15 on wood subfloors. The F series would truly be perfect in the piano fininsh for alot of us. If its not feasible or along way out, can the D15 be turned on its side?(with the amp up of course;)
I have been chating with Dave F about your subs and thought I would run this past you also. My current subs is in a 17x17 living area with virtually no walls opening into a 12x18 kitche, then a 17x17 dining room. Will the 15" be sufficient in terms of HT performance. I dont listen at ref levels nor have I every bottomed my current SVS PC Ultra 12" out yet.
Thanks!
Brandon
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mag_Neato
Welcome, Brian! I have been enjoying my DIY'd DS12 for over a year now. I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me on the phone regarding the proper amount of polyfil to use in my enclosure and other questions about the operation of the sub.
I noticed on the new subs here that a 1-band PEQ has been included as well as a defeatable rumble filter. I was curious if the power output of the amp has been increased (370W) over the amp I have from a year ago without the PEQ/rumble filter? Also, has the driver changed since then?
Just curious. I am completely happy with the performance, but if there is an upgrade available............:D
Ed,
The amplifier output is still the same. Only the preamp stage has been redesigned. PEQ is valuable if your room has a significant room mode. Rumble filter is more for those who likes to play really loud or have LP players. If you feel you would be more comfortable with an upgrade, please send me an email and we will figure out what to do.
-Brian
-
Re: Wishing a warm welcome to Rythmik Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by
merrymaid520
Welcome Brain!
In the other thread we chatted about not using the downfiring D15 on wood subfloors. The F series would truly be perfect in the piano fininsh for alot of us. If its not feasible or along way out, can the D15 be turned on its side?(with the amp up of course;)
I have been chating with Dave F about your subs and thought I would run this past you also. My current subs is in a 17x17 living area with virtually no walls opening into a 12x18 kitche, then a 17x17 dining room. Will the 15" be sufficient in terms of HT performance. I dont listen at ref levels nor have I every bottomed my current SVS PC Ultra 12" out yet.
Thanks!
Brandon
The comparison of sealed vs vented subwoofers is a bit difficult because there are weakness in each. The vented box would have more output between 18hz to 40hz band only (EDIT: I made a mistake earlier), and lose to sealed subwoofer below port tuning frequency (for the rumble effect). But I have a few PC Ultra customers, after they hear the sound of our subwoofers, they are pretty much surprised there is such a huge difference. One customer, Kevin, even said our sound is just cleaner, there is no other way to describe it. If you are into sound quality and not into SPL competition, our sealed 15" have plenty output.
BTW, I won't recommend turn D15SE side way, it just doesn't look good. The reason we are still evaluating what to do with a piano finish F15 is that we can use a different driver. If there is any improvement in SPL we'd want to do, the reward is higher if it is done on 15".
-Brian