Wow! We have very similar tastes! Duals may be overkill, but I sure smile every time a movie plays with any content below 20hz:)
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True! It does provide a much better integration and room response! I think the everyday (non audiophile) person would think its overkill...I know folks who visit my place look at my setup and go "why do you need so many speakers and why are they so huge?". LOL!
I just ordered the EX to EX2 upgrade package and have a silly question - the current EX crossovers that I will be swapping out - can they be used in another pair of normal S2's that I use in a different setup? I am guessing "probably not" is the answer as that kit has a different woofer to install to get the full EX experience, but I thought'd I'd check. :) Can't wait for the EX2 kit to get here!
Edit: fixed typo.
Not sure I understand your question. You'd have EX, not EX2 cross-overs left over. I don't think you can use them in normal S2's as the woofer is different. You may want to see if you can get the old EX woofer (or just upgrade the S2's to EXV2) :)
Yes, sorry - typo. I meant using the old EX crossovers in a normal S2.
figured that's what you meant. Same amswer as before - likely not due to woofer being different.
Ok. Completely unrelated to my above upgrade. I purchased another pair of Sierra-2EX’s off one forum member’s estate last year (he lived in rural Illinois, and I assume the speakers were sitting in his garage for a period of time before they were sent to me) and I finally swapped the crossovers to V2.
What do I see? One speaker contained a few mouse droppings. The other speaker had numerous seeds within it. I guess they do make a perfect rodent hangout.
I could only chuckle and shake my head. Again, I could hear the improvement. It’s amazing what a well designed crossover can do with the identical drivers.
Ha - that's funny!
We recently performed an ELX upgrade on a pair of towers for a customer. During testing and moving the speaker around, I heard some noise that concerned me. We couldn't find the issue until we took the woofers back out and then Joe reached into the bottom of the cabinet where the port tube is and found 3 little foam balls. They looked like the small balls some nerf guns shoot. I believe we returned these to the customer :)
I have owned the Sierra 1, 2, 2EX, LX, and now the 2EX V2. (All fantastic in their own ways)
But WOW! The Sierra 2EX V2 is just sublime. I listen to 60-70s rock, blues, bluegrass, country, jazz, classical, some newer pop, electronic, and metal. The 2EX V2’s really knock all of these genres out of the park. Usually I can get a speaker happy with a few genres but not ALL genres! Truly just enjoying music fatigue free.
It is incredible how the RAAL ribbon has all the detail without the harshness. The 2EX V2 blending of the RAAL ribbon and woofer is seriously faultless. It almost feels like a coaxial speaker, that’s how awesome the blend is.
I recently attended an orchestral performance here in MN because I was really curious how well the 2EX V2 would compare to a real performance. Now obviously the sheer visceral nature of a live orchestra will not be replicated by any speaker. BUT, the tonality and air the 2EX V2 displays was about as close as I can imagine a speaker getting. I could count way more similarities than dissimilarities which is simply awesome!
My speaker history spans outside of Ascend Acoustics. Previous speakers owned include floorstanders and bookshelf speakers ranging from $2,000-$15,000. The 2EX V2 is competitive with all of them and seriously one of my favorites EVER. Obviously the 2EX V2 will not have the vast sonic size of say a Magnepan 3.7i or the ultra low bass of some other floorstanders, but count me 110% pleased.
Dave, you’ve got yourself a winner in the Sierra 2EX V2. The addition of the Klippel system and your expertise have seriously transformed this speaker. Well done, glad to benefit from your outstanding work.
For anyone curious my current system: Sierra 2EX V2 on 24in stands, McIntosh MC312, Audio Research LS-28, Chord Qutest, Raspberry Pi streaming from Roon/Tidal. Full Gik Acoustics treatments.
@Nautrachkfriend
What do you use, or did you use, the LX for? If music, which genres, artists?
I agree that the 2EX V2s do a great job reproducing a classical symphony performance. I have a number of SACDs from the Pittsburgh Symphony that I listen to with my 2EX V2 speakers. The Pittsburgh Symphony has got a number of Grammy nominations over the years for their releases and won one back in 2018. Plus, they are recorded in Heinz Hall where they have their performances. Since I live in Pittsburgh, unlike music recorded in a studio or venue I have not been to, I can make a direct comparison between what I get at home and the live performance. With these speakers, and I have gone through a number over the years, I definitely get as close as I am likely to get replicating a live performance in my home.
I used the LX in the same spot my 2EX V2's are in now. 100% music, 2 channel, same genres as specified before. I ended up swapping them for the 2EX V2 because the ribbon tweeter just can't be beat. I'd also give the edge in midrange clarity to the 2EX V2.
The biggest strength of the LX was the bass region, it sounds like a full tower. I did also like that you could move around in the room and the sound stayed quite consistent. For the record it was the first metal dome tweeter I have ever enjoyed, which is a fantastic feat. I have experienced Beryllium and Diamond domes too.
Still loving my Sierra-2EX's with the V2 upgrade! I am still astounded by how much further I can hear into the recording with the V2 crossover. Thanks Dave!
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I continue to be amazed at how good the Sierra-2EX V2 sounds as well. IMO, the V2 upgrade put these speakers in another league. The reproduction of the music I listen to on it seems absolutely perfect. I can't imagine better sound coming out of a speaker than this.
I know Ascend Acoustics has more expensive speakers in the ELX Towers but it's hard for me to fanthom how much better they can be. I'm sure they have better bass and can play louder but I dont think those aspects are critical to my listening habits.
BTW, when I upgraded to the V2s, I also limited the Audyssey frequency range to below 300 hz. This completely smoothed out the sound. I never realized it but I think Audyssey adds a harshness to the sound by flattening out the FR. With the NFS, it's completely unnecessary to use room EQ above 300-400 Hz on these speakers. This also really improved on the SQ for me.
Really? I haven't A/Bed them. And I only the original Sierra 2's that I plan to do the EX V2 upgrade on soon. But, the ELX towers switched out the V1 midrange to the woofer in the 2EXs, because Dave found it had nearly perfect textbook directivity. He then implemented the LX woofers for the bass region, because that is where they shine. Yes the towers can have a much better ribbon tweeter too, but the much of the midrange in the EX V2 is handled by the woofer, which he thought would be perfect for the dedicated midrange driver in the ELX tower. Again I can't say for certain because I haven't A/Bed the 3 speakers you are talking about, but just in terms of the drivers used in the various speakers I'm not so sure how that would be true.
I have S2s as my surrounds (now, used to be my mains). RAAL ELX Towers now my mains (upgraded from V1). Not heard the upgraded S2 EX. Midrange in the ELX Towers is excellent- much better than the v1 and the S2.
I think Sunbyrne is probably right despite the driver comparison. Midrange is dedicated in the Tower so doesn’t have to handle lower bass. I assume the x-over designs also impact.
I would agree with this statement regarding the v1 towers and original 2 EX speakers. Both are good speakers, but the v1 towers had a significant edge in the midrange department with the dedicated driver. If memory serves me right, as one reviewer here put it, you went from sitting a few rows back with the 2EX to being in the front row with the towers.
I'm prepping for the ELX tower upgrade this weekend. Not sure what to expect moving from the v1 towers, but maybe it will be like rocking out on the actual stage with the ELX as opposed to "just" the front row. :)
Here was the statement from Dave in the first post of the "We save the best for last thread".
"With our newer and NFS optimized EX and LX speakers, we have come very close to matching the performance of our towers. Both the EXv2 and LX have surpassed the towers in certain very specific performance characteristics, and this was our goal. With the LX, we surpassed the towers in overall dynamics, bass extension and power handling – with the EXv2, directivity and midrange accuracy and detail."
So the EXv2 appears to have a better midrange than the V1 tower.
Anyway, for certain listening preferences such as classical or acoustical music, and not at extremely high volumes, is the EXv2 pretty close to the ELX Towers?
This is purely a guess as I have neither speakers. My mains are Sierra 2s that I really want to up grade to EX V2 soon. The better tweeter and LX woofers in the tower will change the crossover, where the EX woofer can probably eek out better midrange detail. How noticeable? Subtle or night and day? Only people who have both speakers and have critically listened to both can tell. I’m sure Dave could tell you.
I would also add the ELX using the 70-20 allows for even lower crossover point...which would free up further the mid range in a already dedicated midrange design...iirc...the original tower had a equal or slight advantage vs. S2EX....I hasten to say the ELX has a significant advantage...lower volume maybe...much closer.
So happy to hear this, thank you. And I agree, with our NFS optimized line of speakers, it is likely best to avoid all room EQ above the room's transition frequency.
From a technical / objective standpoint, yes - the ELX do provide performance improvements across the board, in mids and the highs.
From the standpoint of the midrange, the ELX midwoofer is not tasked with reproducing bass frequencies that do interfere with the reproduction of mid frequencies (major reduction in IM distortion). Also, the midwoofer is housed in its own critically damped sealed chamber that completely absorbs backwave radiation. This can not be done in the Sierra-2EXV2 as there wouldn't be much output below 100Hz. Additionally, with the big RAAL (70-20xram), we are able to cross lower so much of the upper midrange response is handled by the RAAL.
Regarding the highs, the RAAL 70-20xram is the better sounding tweeter compared to the RAAL 64-10X, it is smoother and more transparent, has a more linear polar response and lower distortion.
We do have a pair of ELX Ribbon Towers and Sierra-2EXv2 in our demo room. When my time frees up, I think I will do some critical A/B comparisons using a high crossover point to eliminate the major bass advantage the ELX Tower has and then share my thoughts on this.
Hey Nautrachkfriend and sliang - Heading over to this forum to say thank you for sharing your thoughts on the 2EXv2s. As much as I enjoy classical music, your comments were key in making my final decision to purchase these instead of the LXs. In fact, I just attended Beethoven's 9th at the Kennedy Center last Friday and have compared to my home system using the recording of the Pittsburg Symphony Orchestra directed by Manfred Honeck. Of course the live version in a huge venue is on another level, but I still am amazed at how close I can get to that experience using the 2EXv2s (with a sub).
Also, I'd be interested to know more about your set-ups. Are you using one or more subwoofers? If so, what crossover point are you using? As of today I am using 60Hz and letting a single SVS 2000 Pro cover all frequencies below that point. It sounds fantastic! Later this summer I'll purchase a second 2000 Pro and maybe experiment with 80 Hz. Also, what amplifiers are you using?
Glad I could help you with your purchase decision.
My set up consists of a Marantz NR 1710 and one SVS PB 2000 Pro subwoofer. I use Audyssey in my AVR (only bass frequencies up to 250 Hz) since, along with some bass traps, that is the only way to clean up the bass due to the configuration of my room. I cross over to my pair of 2EX speakers at 80 Hz. While my AVR only puts out 50 watts per channel, it is plenty of power for me sit since I only sit about 7 feet away and I am only running a 2.1 set up. Also, I am not running my system very loud for music (70 to 80 dB for classical, a little louder for rock).
Quick question:
With the S2EX V2, Is there any more to making one a "Center" than simply rotating the tweeter 90 degrees?
I'm looking to lay flat one of my front L+R speakers to fit better with my new TV.
Will dispersion be significantly affected? And, If i lay one flat, should the other be layed flat to make everything equal?
Thanks in Advance!
That is all you would need to do in order to lay it horizontally. I would do it to both speakers just so they are identical, but if you need to have one vertical it is likely fine. Also, if you order a center version directly from Ascend it would come with a full length grill to cover the entire baffle.
Thanks for the input.
I wanted to get my thoughts down on this before I end up losing my page of scribbled notes lol.
OK - I ended up spending a good 3 hours comparing our ELX Ribbon Towers and Sierra-2EXv2 with level matched direct A/B switching using a 100Hz high pass filter. Obviously, there is no comparison between these 2 speakers when it comes to bass, and there shouldn't be. ELX is a near full range speaker, flat to 25Hz in our demo room!
The biggest surprise to me was the difference in the highs. It has been a while since I compared our RAAL 70-20xram with the RAAL 64-10x. What was most noticeable was the much smoother sound of the 70-20 combined with far better instrument separation with complex passages. I expected this, but I was surprised at how noticeable the differences were. Add to this a less metallic / more natural sound from the 70-20. I have said this many times, but I believe the 70-20xram to simply be one of (if not) THE best sounding tweeter in the world today. It is just so accurate and refined, you forget you are actually listening to a tweeter.
Regarding this mids, as expected - the ELX mids are significantly lusher, warmer - more spacious sounding, with an effortless character to complex male and female vocals. S2EXv2 sounded thinner, with less depth and, perhaps, just a slight edginess to them compared to the ELX.
The differences between these 2 great speakers are indeed quite noticeable, even taking away the dramatic differences in bass and dynamics. ELX are simply in a different league in all aspects of performance.
I hope this helps!
Interesting. That brings up something I've been idly thinking about: Have you designed a Klippel-optimized bookshelf speaker with the EX midwoofer and the 70-20xram tweeter? It would cost a lot more than the current S2EXv2, but there may be a market for it.
Along those lines, I was thinking about different combinations of woofers and tweeters that you could use for different bookshelf speakers. I figure the Titan woofer and the 64-10 is a no-go due to incompatible crossover needs, but you could do a Titan woofer with the 70-20 RAAL, or maybe the EX woofer with the Titan tweeter?
Again, just idle thoughts when I can't sleep at night! :-)
We have made many custom bookshelf speakers with the 70-20xram, with various woofers. It is a considerable amount of work for us due to the massive depth of the 70-20 ribbon as it interferes with the port tube and requires different internal tweeter cutouts. It is too much work for us right now, ideally - we would need to design a new cabinet. The 70-20 would work well with the Titan woofer or the EX woofer.
Hadn't even thought about that combination, pricing would be higher compared to the LX and other than a few dB higher sensitivity, I am unsure if it would outperform the standard LX. I might have to design a proto just to see...Quote:
or maybe the EX woofer with the Titan tweeter?
Ahh - so many projects, so little time :)
Thanks! Good info there. I keep forgetting the 70-20 is so much deeper and that it would get in the way of the port tube in the bookshelf cabinet!
As for the EX woofer with the Titan tweeter, I assume you'd gain a bit of sensitivity but lose some bass extension as the biggest differences?
Well, get to work! You replied at 1:30AM so obviously you're not busy or anything! :p
Dave: If you decide to explore any of these options (very excited if you do decide to pursue these!), one research question I'd humbly suggest would be an analysis (using Klippel measurements and actual music in your dedicated listening room) comparing the 70-20 with EX woofer vs. 70-20 with LX woofer. I'd be keenly interested in your assessment of the midrange and high frequency integration of both prototypes using the high-pass filter at 100 Hz that you used for your analysis comparing to the ELX RAAL with the 2EXv2. Meanwhile...back to enjoying my 2EXv2s!!
Dave - thanks for the quick assessment. I think I understand. I was assuming that deep bass would be taken out of the equation with the high-pass filter at 100 Hz, because clearly the LX is far better in that area. With highs being very close if not the same, if I have this right, the key difference ultimately would be directivity vs. mid-bass (above 100 hz) punch. Trying to wrap my mind around this difference given my own direct experience with the excellent midbass of the 2EXv2. :cool:
My comparison with the 100Hz high pass enabled was between ELX Ribbon Towers and Sierra-2EXv2. However we had a listening session at the office maybe a year ago and we were specifically comparing LX to Sierra-2EX, and even with a 100Hz high pass, differences in midbass and overall fullness were clearly audible.
Very clear: LX woofer/70-20 combination is superior not only in deep bass but also in the mid-bass and overall fullness above 100Hz. Although I have dual sealed subs that are already very well integrated with EXv2 to meet my requirements for frequencies below that threshold, given my music preferences the LX woofer has some key features that I would greatly appreciate. Your candor, attention to detail and accessibility to customers is first rate. Thank you for this information - it's very helpful in thinking longer term about options.