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Nicholas Mosher
04-24-2005, 09:28 PM
I've decided against going for a 480p 42" plasma in favor of a 720p 72" projected image. :D

72" image at an 8' viewing distance is above the 1.3 distance recommendation for 720p.

While I'm a couple/few months away from purchasing a projector (have to get one more sub first), I've started doing my research. Pretty soon I'll be finding some places to audition as well. I'm also purchasing knowing that HD-DVD and 1080p will hopefully be mainstream within 2 years, so I'm keeping my spending capped at around $2500 for the PJ.

I want 720p resolution, but haven't decided on a technology yet. Both DLP and LCD PJs both have their issues. Obviously LCDs have poor blacks, darker images, larger SDE, and a rumored blue-chip degradation. DLPs have the rainbow effect, dithering (a lagging/smearing during fast pans), and relative higher cost.

For LCD projectors I'm considering...
Sanyo PLV-Z3 ~$1800
Panasonic AE700U ~$1900 w/Rebate
InFocus SP5000 ~$1800

On the short DLP list are...
Toshiba TDP-MT700 ~$2500
BenQ PE7700 ~$2800

(Note: BenQ produces both of these HD2+ 720p DLP PJs, but the Toshiba ironically has Faroudja processing at a lesser price)

I currently plan on purchasing a 72" Carada screen.
Here is a mock-up of what a 72" screen will look like made to scale out of posterboard (minus the black border). I'll have another SVS 16-46 PC+ next to my FL speaker, the mini-TV will be going, and my stack of equipment will also be relocated. The photo is kind of skewed as I'm standing slightly to the side at the rooms entrance.

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/tempscreen.JPG

Just for reference, my room layout again...

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/newroom.jpg

I read the whole Toshiba TDP-MT700 thread at AVS last night. First off, here are a couple screenshots I stole showing a comparison between the Toshiba and the older Sanyo Z2. The difference in black levels between the HD2+ equipped Toshiba and 3xLCD setup of the Sanyo is quite obvious.

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/z2vs700a.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/vs700b.jpg

I'm definetly going to have to check out how singlechip DLP affects me though. Anyhoo, thats my progress in this endeavor thus far. ;)

curtis
04-24-2005, 11:06 PM
That is going to be an awesome setup! I agree, if you can pull it off, the projector is the way to go. I am envious!

A good friend of mine(some of you remember, the audiologist and one of the Ascend Genies), just got the Panasonic AE700U. I have not had a chance to sample it yet...but I will soon. She tells me it is fabulous.

One question though, with your sub so close to the speaker, do you notice any imaging/dispursion issues? That is a very close reflection/absorbtion point.

Nicholas Mosher
04-24-2005, 11:32 PM
I was also worried about my sub interfering with the FR speaker while setting it up, but I didn't notice any detrimental effects after moving it a few times so that was a relief! :eek: :)

On another note, the new sub purchase has been delayed a couple/few weeks. For 7 or 8 years now I've wanted to learn how to play the guitar (acoustic). My local music shop had their yearly mega sale this week so I bought a guitar package centered around an Ibanez Dreadnought. My fingers hurt so bad... I practiced for about 8hrs over the past few days (three days ago I couldn't even read music). I can play twinkle twinkle little star, mary had a little lamb, and the intro to dueling banjos. Look out Madison Square Garden! :D :p

curtis
04-24-2005, 11:35 PM
That is great! There are at least a couple of other Ascend owners/forum members that are guitarists.

Guitars like Ascends! :)

bikeman
04-25-2005, 05:24 AM
On another note, the new sub purchase has been delayed a couple/few weeks. For 7 or 8 years now I've wanted to learn how to play the guitar (acoustic). My local music shop had their yearly mega sale this week so I bought a guitar package centered around an Ibanez Dreadnought. My fingers hurt so bad... I practiced for about 8hrs over the past few days (three days ago I couldn't even read music). I can play twinkle twinkle little star, mary had a little lamb, and the intro to dueling banjos. Look out Madison Square Garden! :D :p

I've read the newer five string bass guitars can go down to 30hz. Should we start a pool to guess how long before Nicholas owns one? :D

David

Nicholas Mosher
04-25-2005, 07:53 AM
:p...

metalaaron
04-25-2005, 04:36 PM
I was also worried about my sub interfering with the FR speaker while setting it up, but I didn't notice any detrimental effects after moving it a few times so that was a relief! :eek: :)

On another note, the new sub purchase has been delayed a couple/few weeks. For 7 or 8 years now I've wanted to learn how to play the guitar (acoustic). My local music shop had their yearly mega sale this week so I bought a guitar package centered around an Ibanez Dreadnought. My fingers hurt so bad... I practiced for about 8hrs over the past few days (three days ago I couldn't even read music). I can play twinkle twinkle little star, mary had a little lamb, and the intro to dueling banjos. Look out Madison Square Garden! :D :p

hehehe. i can remember those days! and, to be honest, i still play those songs! i can't encourage you enough to learn nursery rhymes, show tunes, christmas songs, etc. as cheesy as that sounds, it's exactly what i did when i started. there's so much good material in there. ah, memories. i can remember when i bought my first marshall amp, distortion, and wah pedal my senior year of high school. i chunked out ride of the valkyrie so much that my sister was ready to kill me! there's nothing quite like the electric experiences, but acoustic guitar is the real beauty of this instrument. excellent choice. you're on your way to a lifetime of enjoyment.

there are so many cool resources on the internet for guitar now. online lessons, etc. it's great stuff. here's a new thing i stumbled upon just a few weeks ago ... http://www.guitarport.com/ it's pretty neat.
www.harmony-central.com (http://www.harmony-central.com/) is also a good site that i like to visit pretty often (you can probably write a review for your equipment there too).
i'm just grabbing sites as they pop into memory ... check out a program called http://www.power-tab.net/downloads.php and the accompanying sheet music site is http://www.powertabs.net/.

let me know if you want any tips, or just want to chat. rock on!

Nicholas Mosher
04-25-2005, 11:36 PM
I'll definetly check those links out metalaaron... thanks!
I'll probably PM you with questions as they come up too... :confused: :)

I had a false start at learning the guitar (electric) while in 10th grade. I had a knockoff Stratocaster made by Peavey called a "Raptor" along with a little amp. At the time I could play one song... Smells Like Teen Spirit. Of course I had no idea at the time what effect pedals were, so to get the distortion sound I cranked my little amp up to lift-off volume and ran it into the ground... :p

The setup has since been passed down to other family members. Now I really want to learn how to play, read/write music, and get to where I can play without thinking about the technical aspects of it. I figured acoustic would be a good approach as a basic platform. Then I can get my flying V, distortion & wah pedals, bajillion gigawatt amp to blow the skirts of passerbys up, and a skull tattoo... :D

metalaaron
04-26-2005, 07:57 AM
haha, skull tattoo! :p

there are so many different styles. i have noticed over the few years i've played that you really can not learn or know everything about the instrument. there are so many different approaches to producing music with a guitar. it's an instrument without limitations. for example, i live in what you'd probably call bluegrass country (the hills of tennessee). i took some lessons for the first time 2.5 years ago by someone who is a known bluegrass celebrity around here. it was COMPLETELY different from ANYTHING i've ever done before. the lessons were so weird because he didn't show you ANY sheet music, or let you have any material to take home other than a cheap mono tape recording of the lesson. he started a bluegrass run and you had to try to keep up. he was pretty relentless if you didn't hit the right note. he laid out some ground rules and then he threw a complete curveball at me. he started singing bluegrass. i messed up as soon as he started singing because it was so unexpected, and just down right hilarious. so there i was, a fairly preppy guy sitting in a guitar shop that looked like a log cabin, pickin' out bluegrass songs with an ol' country man, and his dog staring from a nearby space heater. i stopped the lessons because his teaching style as well as bluegrass was not for me. i still listen to the tapes from time to time because they're so funny. it's fun to play some of the songs because they bring back some funny memories.

my pride and joy is my acoustic. you really made a great choice. whenever someone tells me they want to try guitar, i always tell them to start on an acoustic. acoustic sounds wonderful, and it is the best platform to begin on because it will build your strength and dexterity much faster than an electric. it also develops a better ear for the music, IMHO.

smokey
04-26-2005, 03:40 PM
Not to take the discussion in an inadvertently on-topic direction ;) but I would love to hear from Nicholas if he gets a chance to demo any of the projectors he listed. I hope to do FP as well someday but will have to live vicariously through others until I can amass sufficient funds.

-Smokey.

PS: I bought my first electric guitar about a year ago, and started taking lessons, but got interrupted when my daughter arrived 7 months (!) ago. Now I'm thinking of waiting until we can take lessons together.

Nicholas Mosher
04-27-2005, 02:31 PM
Smokey, I plan to start looking for places to view different projectors sometime next month (after I get my second sub). Depending on how much overtime I get at my new job (I start tomorrow) and which projector I get I'll be purchasing a PJ in late June/Early July.

Thats the plan anyways. Then I'll pick up a screen a couple weeks after that, and some home theater seating towards the end of summer (to replace my old green couch :p).

Guitar is going good. Now my fingertips don't hurt much, but the knuckles in my left hand index finger are ready to explode from squeezing the frets... :eek: :rolleyes:

Jonnyozero3
04-29-2005, 02:29 PM
Nicholas -

Too bad you aren't closer to Omaha. I just bought the Toshiba MT700 a few weeks ago. I demo'd a few (Sony HS51, Sharp ??2000, $$$ Yamaha) in a stores, and I am IMMENSELY satisfied with the Toshiba. The LCD's are a great choice, but I really wanted to get the best black levels possible, so I ponied up the extra $600. That means my sub is a month away now...as well as surrounds...very sad :( But anyhow, I'd demo it for you, but I guess screenshots will have to do.

Projector:
http://community.webshots.com/album/331614577HhULDO

Rest of Room setup:
http://community.webshots.com/album/109804667bgmVCV

I've said this a million times in reference to these photos - but the camera captured images absolutely do not do justice to the sharpness/contrast/brightness/color of the image. It's also only calibrated by eye since I have a crappy dvd player and didn't waste the effort. Just keep that in mind :)

curtis
04-29-2005, 02:48 PM
I am so envious of you guys that have rooms that can pull off an FP setup.

Jonnyozero3
04-29-2005, 03:42 PM
Curtis...for a modest fee you can use mine :) Just kidding. This setup was a long time in coming for me, and I'm not sure if I should have blown this much money on it...but seems worth it to me! :) It's one of those finally-a-regular-decent-paycheck-harry-homeowner-type things.

Nicholas Mosher
04-29-2005, 05:15 PM
Jonny those blacks look great!

Unfortunately I had an unfortunate experience with DLP today...

I went to a couple stores (a big-box and a hifi shop) after work today. The local CC finally hooked up some DVD players to each TV and dimmed all the lights in the TV section so I could finally test out some of their display units. I brought AVIA and a few DVDs. You should have seen the sales guys when I started screwing around with the basic AVIA modes using the colored filters to get reasonably accurate colors that werent red saturated maximum brightness images... :p

Them: "Yes sir, this is what we call a high definition TV... um... what are you doing sir?" :D

I am happy to note that on the newer rear-projection DLP units with the uber-speed color-wheels I can see absolutely no rainbow effect. Black levels were spectacular.

Thats where the fun ended though. After about ~10min of viewing my eyes started hurting. I switched to watching an LCD or Plasma and the problem went away. I was also very dissapointed with the dithering. The lagging/smearing (compared to LCD based units) in some scenes had me raising an eyebrow. With some material it was borderline aggravating. Everytime it happened the picture lost its realism and ruined the experience.

Black levels and lack of screen door effect severity were superior on the DLP units I viewed (including an InFocus SP4805), but everything else seemed less than desirable to me.

I think I'm back to looking at LCD based projectors. The 4 or 5 DLP units I checked out were all at the bottom of my favorite list after auditioning today.

The best rear projection unit I saw was a 50" Hitachi Ultravision. Nice TV.

Jonnyozero3
04-29-2005, 08:39 PM
Nick (Do you prefer the short version? :p ) -

It is unfortunate that each technology today has it's issues and trade-offs. I guess that's the nature of the beast until we're all running Blu-HD-fed 1080p Super Displays with 6^292352593475:1 contrast ratios, infinitely adjustable lumens, and UTSC universal tuners that tune 2-way cable, OTA HD, Dish, DirecTV, AM/FM/CB/HAM/....

groan.

Back to reality. It's unfortunate you've had a bad experience with DLP so far. I had a hard time choosing between LCD and DLP for a front PJ, and it was pretty much contrast that did it for me. But that's me...not you :)

A few points from my limited experiences with DLP:
1- I have found that the dithering (lagging/smearing) effect you mentioned can be affected by the source. I've used an Apex (480i), a Sony DVP-315 (480i), a Panny RP-82 (480p), a Harman/Kardon DVD-31 (480p), an XBOX (480i/480p) and a Cox Motorola HD/DVR (720p/1080i) to feed my MT700 pj. I haven't, to my best recollection, noticed any (noticeable) dithering artifacts on HD or with the RP-82. The only thing I can pick up on them for the most part is Rainbow effect (which I am *very* susceptible to, but live with :( ).

The sony DVD player and the apex, however, were *very* bad in this department depending on the source material. The Xbox looks fine on Burnout3 (racing game), but Halo has many dithering issues at times with the very quick movement. Since I've seen differences depending on the source, I would suggest trying to narrow things down by using a quality dvd-player or recorded HD (if possible) to do your comparisons.

2- About eyestrain. I've watched hours of different material on my setup and have induced some eyestrain (feeling crappy, almost a headache, etc). But, this hasn't happened on HD, or during my Firefly SD DVDs (very rough tv quality) that I watch over and over (yes I'm a geek, but go see the movie when it comes out). I haven't had a problem on SD cable or other movie DVDs (Incredibles) either. But, when I play Xbox I get tired of it *very* quickly. It's kind of odd. I do feel my setup is a little too bright and that may play a part in it. I'll probably grab an ND2 filter to cut it down.

But anyhow, I've heard stories about display setups in stores with hi-gain screens that are just too bright and fatiguing. The brightness of the PJ contrasted with the darkness of the dim room isn't easy on the eyes. Were the LCDs and Plasmas in the same dim area? If not, it may mean your eye was just working too hard in the dark space with the PJ. Just something to keep in mind and I think it would apply to LCD pj's also. I may install a dim backlight behind my own PJ screen to help out my eyes.

Okay - So what's my point? There are a lot of factors at play here other than just LCD vs DLP. You know what you're doing and you're a very discriminating customer, so I encourage you to give both techs a couple tries if you can. Hopefully it'll help you double check yourself and the equipment and find what will be best for you back in your apartment - where you are in control of the environment.

Phew. Time for bed!

(awesome replies in the subwoofer thread, but I need to get to sleep - I will get to that thread tomorrow!)

Jonnyozero3
05-02-2005, 02:32 PM
Update - Hey Nicholas, one of the AVS forum guys came over to check out my MT700. He had previously seen one of the Infocus 4805's and suffered bad eyestrain/headaches. We watched the MT700 for about 2 hours on different material (Nemo, Master n Commander, Pirates of the Carrib, Incredibles, HD), and he found that he didn't get any eyestrain at all. I still find my setup a tad too bright and a little fatiguing, but he said it was much better than the 4805. He also didn't see any rainbows while I still do :rolleyes:

Anyhow, I don't think this is a plus for the MT700 or a knock on the 4805 - it's more a validation in my eyes that its the setup that counts. I think eyestrain is really only induced by a too-bright setup, and that can be dealt with.

Phew, okay, good luck searching! Keep me updated on your search, I'm interested to see how it turns out for you. Also - I may sound like I am defending DLP, but I'm really impartial in all this. I think each tech has it's tradeoffs and it's just best to evaluate as fairly as possible!

jimsiff
05-02-2005, 02:51 PM
Nick,

Another thing to consider: Are you verifying at least basic calibration settings before demoing the PJs? I remember that you used your sound meter to level match speakers during your audition process. You should consider taking a DVD with the THX Optimizer so you can tweak the PJs basic output before you start the demo. Don't trust a dealer to properly calibrate TVs or PJs before they show them off to the public.

I remember noticing some dithering effects on my Samsung when watching HD Without A Trace on CBS. The opening credits have a birds eye view of the New York skyline with lots of straight lines and sharp contrasts moving across the screen. Since calibrating the set and turning off all video enhancements (DNR, DNiE, etc) the image is much better and I no longer see dithering.

You could always step up to a Runco 3 chip DLP. I'd just about guarantee you'd be happy with that. :D

jeh
05-03-2005, 07:17 AM
the extensive research i did before my projector purchase wore me out...i decided to quit thinking and go with the infocus x1 and i couldn't be happier. honestly, i am 100% satisfied with it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/jehagain/2.jpg

Nicholas Mosher
05-05-2005, 06:36 PM
I brought AVIA with me and tweaked all the settings such as contrast/brightness/tint, etc. I couldn't see the Rainbow Effect, but the dithering and eyestrain was just too much. The blacks were definetly superior though. LCD based units in the same area didn't affect me in these ways, although the black levels were worse. Although I'm not considering RPTV, anyone interested in LCD RPTV's should check out the Hitachi Ultravision lines. They were simply spectacular!

I'm kinda turned off from DLP now and leaning towards the LCD based Sanyo PLV-Z3 PJ, but I haven't completely ruled DLP out, as I'm always open to change. Coincidently though, the Sanyo is just under $2k, so my screen budget will also increase :cool:.

Next Friday (not tomorrow) I will hopefully be ordering my second SVS 16-46PC+. My audio setup will then be "Finished", and I can start squirrling away for my PJ.

Jonnyozero3
05-10-2005, 06:43 AM
Hey Nicholas, what do you guys have in Boston for hi-fi a/v shops (ones with projectors)? My best friend lives in boston and is in the market for a PJ - I'm giving him some pointers and wanted to point him in the direction of some good places to check out. Thanks...

Nicholas Mosher
05-10-2005, 06:09 PM
I dunno, I live in the central part of the state.
I'll be looking into it myself this summer...

Jonnyozero3
05-11-2005, 07:25 AM
Ahh okay. My bad - I thought you were in Boston for some reason. Thanks. Any developments in your search?

Nicholas Mosher
06-15-2005, 08:43 PM
I've definetly settled on going LCD over DLP for my front projector. Given the +/-'s for the LCD PJ's in the $2k range, I'm also pretty much settled on getting the Sanyo PLV-Z3.

My home theater project coffer has about half the clams I need. Should be ready to purchase one by the end of July... :)

curtis
06-15-2005, 08:50 PM
Nicholas,
Can you give us a rundown on the pros and cons of LCD vs DLP in that price range?

Nicholas Mosher
06-15-2005, 09:34 PM
Well this is what I found on DLP and LCD units in the $2000 range.

DLP
+ + +
~ Excellent black levels.
~ Excellent resultant contrast.
- - -
~ Temporal Dithering Artifacts.
(This is what bothered me most. During some scenes on DLP units parts of the image were blurry/lagging.
~ Slightly higher cost than comparable LCD units.
~ Although I can't see them, "Rainbow" artifacts.

LCD
+ + +
~ Fantastic colors (seemed a bit better than comparable DLP units for some reason).
~ No visible artifacts. Image is clean, crisp, and fluid.
~ Slightly cheaper than comparable DLP units.
- - -
~ Black levels definetly not as good as comparable DLP units.
~ Resultant contrast not quite as good as comparable DLP units.

While the blacks werent as great with LCD units in side-by-side comparisons with DLP units, when viewed seperately I didn't really notice a huge difference after a few minutes of viewing. Whereas with the DLP unit I was instantly bothered with artifacts and a slight headache for some reason.

Now that I settled on LCD based front projection, I looked at the popular units in the $2k range.

Sanyo PLV-Z3
InFocus SP5000
Panasonic AE700U
Sony HS51

Based on reviews, the Panasonic and Sony have the best contrast, but each have a multitude of minor problems. The Panasonic also uses a special lens/filter that acts like a fancy mirror and splits every projected pixel into multiple pixels. Apparently this reduces viewable pixelation, but any pixelation that is viewable has a "wavy" look to it rather than perpendicular lines. I wasn't all that excited by this description. The Panasonic and Sony are also more expensive than the InFocus and Sanyo by a few hundred dollars. The InFocus has the worst specs, but cheapest price. The Sanyo PLV-Z3 is apparently a simple unit that doesn't try to do what it can't. To me it seems like a good comprimise, and can be had for about $1800 shipped. It's reviews place it right beside/slightly behind the Sony/Panny units in contrast levels, but it doesn't seem to have any technical issues, and it offers many practical features for a perfect setup. The LCD panels are also user-cleanable. With 1080p DVDs hopefully around the corner and 1080p projectors on the market, I'll be upgrading in a few years to 1080p projection anyways which really takes any desire out of me for spending more than $2k on a PJ.

Here is a review...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/sanyo-plv-z3-projector-5-2005-part-1.html

http://www.sanyo-ssm.com/overseas/activities/img/plv-z3.jpg

curtis
06-15-2005, 09:43 PM
Thanks a lot! That would be the same price range I would be in as well.....but not for some time.

What about LCD's "screen door" issue?

Nicholas Mosher
06-15-2005, 10:00 PM
If you sit really close you can see it, but it's not as bad as it use to be. Visible screen door effect is now about the same on DLP units as it is on LCD machines.

It really comes down to better blacks & contrast along with artifacts for DLP, or a nearly flawless image with a bit worse blacks & contrast for LCDs. As the above linked reviewer stated, "I'll choose the latter".

curtis
06-15-2005, 11:34 PM
Thanks again Nicholas.

I have a friend that has a DLP projector. She says she can see the rainbow effect......I can not.

I have a DLP RPTV, if I think about it and look for it, I can see screen door.

Can't complain though, I got a great deal on a the TV and got into HDTV a year ahead of schedule.

jojo
06-16-2005, 06:30 AM
If you sit really close you can see it, but it's not as bad as it use to be. Visible screen door effect is now about the same on DLP units as it is on LCD machines.

It really comes down to better blacks & contrast along with artifacts for DLP, or a nearly flawless image with a bit worse blacks & contrast for LCDs. As the above linked reviewer stated, "I'll choose the latter".

since your in an apartment, how big do you think you can get your screen to be. and how are you going to control the light situation if you have sunlight problems.

Nicholas Mosher
06-16-2005, 09:11 AM
These projectors have 720p resolution. Maximum recommended screen diagonal for 720p is your viewing distance divided by 1.3. I sit 8' from the wall, so the maximum recommended screen diagonal is 72". This affects different people in different ways though, so once I get the PJ I'll experient and see just how big I can go without serious image quality degradation.

In one of the above posts I have a mock 72" screen I made out of posterboard. I definetly have the room to go to 92" if I'm satisfied with image quality.

Ambient light is definetly a concern. My room has four huge windows. I'm going to combat this in two ways...

1. Double layered black velvet curtains.
2. A screen with a higher gain reflects light better giving you a brighter image. I plan to order screen samples a week or so before ordering the PJ. Different screen materials play a huge part in your image characteristics.

jojo
06-16-2005, 09:30 AM
your going to have a plush setup wish i could see. hope you have pics once everything is setup. hopeful when i decide to go pj the dlp tch will improve.

Jonnyozero3
06-27-2005, 12:19 AM
Nice choice Nick. If I had gone for LCD it would have been a Z3 or AE700 for me. I bet you'll love it.

In case you haven't seen it, here's a complimentary review of the Z3 from a guy on AVS who has over the past few months shown to be rather objective and discerning in my eyes. The Z3 looks like a good budget choice.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=549660&highlight=sanyo+z3

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=38874

Nicholas Mosher
07-17-2005, 04:57 AM
Still saving my clams for a PJ. I recently took a job offer that has a 5min commute and about 25% more pay (along with a 48hr week), so I should be ready to order sometime in the next 2-3wks or so (hopefully).

I did order some screen samples though from Carada. I also plan to get some from Stewart as well.

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/caradasample.JPG

Anyhoo, figured I'd keep the thread alive. I still plan on going for a Z3. They're $1,725/shipped now! :eek: :)

Jonnyozero3
07-17-2005, 08:43 AM
Can I get a 25% raise with a 5min commute? :eek:

Congrats on the raise bro. And thanks for keeping the thread alive. Sometimes I think I kill threads - I post and they die. It invariably happens :rolleyes:

Anyhow, in regards to screens - if you would consider a budget option I would give the Optoma Graywolf an audition :

http://www.optomausa.com/optomausa/doc/screen/GrayWolf_DS92106PM.pdf

I picked it up at Best Buy of all places (106" for $299). They only have the 106 and a 92" version. I have some issues with it, but my overall impression is positive. I'm giving it a chance for 30 days (easy enough to keep the receipt) and planning on getting samples from the more expensive screen builders like you are. Anyhow, I just thought you might like to take a look at it.

Are you getting samples from more companies like Da-Lite and Draper as well? I need to compile a list of who to get them from...

Nicholas Mosher
07-17-2005, 04:27 PM
I actually left this job in May of 2004 to go travel. So, it's nice to be back. Commuting an hour each way at my last job was just wearing me down... :o

Yeah I plan on getting some from Draper and DaLite too, as well as a few others. Stewart seems to get some of the best reviews, but they are pricey. Throughout my whole HT building process, I've been going with mid-fi budget products, and Carada seems like a promising purchase. It's another online company, and they get glorious reviews from other Outlaw Audio and SVS type owners. Just have to compare the samples once I get a PJ setup so I can make the determination myself.

Jonnyozero3
07-17-2005, 09:39 PM
Damn man, an hour each way blows. I'm at about 15mins plus 5-10 mins to the squadron depending on how busy the gate is to get on base (which reads as: depending on how close I am to being late for work). :p
You've definatley done well reducing that commute.

I think that we are on somewhat of the same page as far as mid-fi goes. That seems to be where I'm landing, but at a notch below you (HK AVR-435 and not separates, but with Toshiba MT700). I am very very concerned about bang for my buck, and this Optoma Graywolf seems to be a nice screen. I was going to post additional negatives tonight, and maybe it's the wine talking, but it looks damn great tonight. I can't wait to see how it fares against more expensive competition.

I didn't know Carada was another of the "online only" type companies. It makes me very intrigued. Very funny how I now percieve "internet direct" as "hi-fi/hi quality" now. Thanks Ascend...haha :D

Nicholas Mosher
07-28-2005, 11:00 AM
Well guys, I took the plunge today and purchased a Sanyo PLV-Z3 through Visual Apex. Excellent price and customer service.

I'm biting my nails about having the image go blue and the lamp blow at hour 2. :E

chas
07-28-2005, 11:58 AM
I'm biting my nails about having the image go blue and the lamp blow at hour 2.

Don't worry...as long as you have a good lawyer you should have no problem getting it serviced under warranty. :D

Nicholas Mosher
07-28-2005, 12:07 PM
Don't joke about those incidents on AVS. They almost had me switching to the Panasonic unit... :D

chas
07-28-2005, 12:37 PM
I know... I saw your post over there and thought I'd give you a little grief. :o

Actually I'm really looking forward to your review of the Z3. :)

Jonnyozero3
07-28-2005, 12:59 PM
Congrats Nick - I can't wait to see some pics and hear your impressions.

And don't worry, I'm fairly certain things could maybe be just fine :)

Nicholas Mosher
07-29-2005, 08:59 AM
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/ss1.JPG

A quick shot of the Da-Lite samples I received. The top left sample is their "High Power" material which has a gain of 2.8! (Note that the paper the samples are mounted on are Matt White and have a Gain of 1).

It also rejects ambient light, giving you an image that won't get as washed out when the room isn't completely blacked out. I can't wait to test this particular material. It's one of those things that make you say "Wow" when you handle it.

Downside is that it has a 30* cone of effect, and you must have the PJ either table mounted, or only a couple feet above your head or less. My room/seats/planned PJ position all fall within these guidelines, so this material would fit my application. It has rave reviews as well.

Due to my purchase of the Z3, I received a preferred quote from VA of $895 (incl. shipping) for a 77" High Power screen tensioned in a Pro-Trimmed (velvet lined) 3" wide Cinema Contour frame. I'll be ready to pounce on this in mid/late August if I like it after actually testing it with my Z3.

Thats if I get a DVD player back that functions properly... :rolleyes:

Jonnyozero3
07-29-2005, 01:10 PM
Thanks for posting the pic. I just recieved my samples from Carada and a bunch from Da-Lite are on the way. I'm looking forward to see what I like best with my M700.

Nicholas Mosher
07-29-2005, 03:16 PM
I hear high-gain screens don't work so hot with DLP PJs. They exacerbate color-wheel artifacts. Just what I heard. The 1.0Gain Carada is an excellent deal with the criterion frame.

Jonnyozero3
07-29-2005, 08:59 PM
Hmm, interesting - I'll have to watch for that. I'm assuming you are talking about motion-dithering? If it's RBE I could see it on a black wall, :( , but I ignore it.

I've been checking out the Optoma Greywolf for the past week or so, and it's not bad. Rated at 1.8 gain but realistically is around 1.4-ish I guess. I haven't noticed an increase in dithering, but I did notice a reduction in RBE; due to the grey color of the screen I assume. The texture still bothers me a little, but my jury is out on that. Also, since it's retro-reflective (vice angular reflective IIRC) and my pj is ceiling mounted I lose some brightness at seating height. That same viewing angle drop-off happens horizontally as well and hurts my widest two seats.

I'm hoping several of the da-lite's and carada screens will be better options, without a great increase in price. I may build my own frame to save money. Does carada sell fabric only? I need to check on that...

Nicholas Mosher
07-31-2005, 05:36 AM
Carada definetly makes money off the screen materials. After comparing the material quality of their samples with Da-Lites, it's no contest. Da-Lite materials (except the RP materials) are nice and thick, and laminated/bound to a tightly woven undermaterial. From pictures Carada's velvet lined frames look top-notch though.

The Carada Brilliant White is definetly less reflective than equivalent rated screens from Da-Lite. I think it's more like 1.1 or something.

T minus four days until the PJ arrives... :D

Eddie Horton
07-31-2005, 10:26 AM
Let us know how it goes. I'm looking forward to a LCD projector in my home. My wife and I went over to a friend's apartment complex last night that has a 15 seat theater that you can rent out if you are a tenant. The screen was a very nice Stewart, the speakers were M&K, but the bass was very lacking. The PJ was an Infocus 7205, and the RBE was terrible to me and one of the other guys there, but my wife didn't notice it. We watched "The Machinist". Freaky.

chas
07-31-2005, 06:56 PM
Wow...that hi-power material looks like it glows in the dark. Can it double as a night-light?

Is the Carada material thin enough that you would worry about rips/tears/punctures more than the Da-Lite?

Nicholas Mosher
08-01-2005, 08:12 AM
The Carada material is definetly much thinner than the Da-Lite materials (except the RP materials). To me the Carada materials seem like simple PVC sheets without much thought behind them. One is gray, one is a bit off-white, and one is white white. I'd be a little worried about wrinkles/waves if it's not tensioned properly.

You can tell Da-Lite spent alot of time/thought/engineering on their materials. Some of them are pretty complex looking combinations of backing/surface/coating/emulsions etc.


The Carada Criterion frames look like pretty solid units, especially how the Criterion frame goes right down to the screen surface. I hope teh Da-Lite Cinema Contour frame is of equal quality, and there is no gap between screen and frame. The High Power material is just so cool though. A couple times a day I pick it up and check it out. It's pretty neat stuff.

My PJ arrives Thursday! :)

Nicholas Mosher
08-04-2005, 01:19 PM
Well guys, I officially have a front projector! :-y

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/z3a.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/z3b.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/z3c.JPG

The Sanyo PLV-Z3 arrived today. Unfortunately I just received an eMail that the used Denon DVD-2910 replacing my failed DVD-2900 is shipping today. I have to check out the tracking number they sent me after 8pm EST.

But oh man is this thing cool! Just made a rough placement on a bookshelf behind the couch. The projector will actually be mounted just 2ft above where it sits on top of the bookshelf now. The lens shift works kick-@$$! Not sure how anyone could live without this feature.

With my new black curtains I bought last week, my room is more than dark enough even during the middle of the day. The lamp is set on low too! I'm going to have to shorten my center speaker stand by 4-6". Right now all five monitors are at ear level, but this is a sacrifice I'll have to make, the screen just seems too high...

Did some experimenting with screen samples using various menu options and colors. Was quite suprised...

Things I found I disliked...
1. Textured materials. They soften the image some, and don't preserve that razorsharp digital quality.

2. Any material gray in color. Blacks are definetly better as well as the resulting contrast, but colors look like $#!t! That vibrant chlorophyl green color of spring grass becomes november pine needle green and Tomato red becomes a maroonish offshoot. Blechhhhh! Not to mention that the brightest white you can see is the color of the gray screen...

3. Any coating/finish that sparkles. It bugs the hell out of me, and plays tricks on my eyes. Silver screen, glass beaded, even the "High Power" I was boasting about.

4. Screens with a viewing angle less than 45*. Even though my couch is within a 30* angle of each screen edge, the only seat that looks 100% is the middle one.

This eliminated every single Da-Lite screen sample I have. :rolleyes:

Oddly enough, I thought the best image was produced on the Carada Brilliant White (1.4 Gain) material! There isn't any weave to it that softens the image, white's are white, colors are pure, there is no sparkling/shimmering, and it looks the same almost 180*, no matter where you sit/stand. It's really not that much different than the Carada Matte White material. The matte seems to be slightly off pure white while the Brilliant White is like Elmer's glue white. The Criterion frames look quite impressive too. I'm just worried about having enough tension with the Carada material. It's slightly stretchy, and I'm worried it will lose it's elasticity/resiliency and sag after a couple years. I suppose if it does they will replace the material.

Found out with my placement option, 80" is the smallest Carada screen size I can go with (min zoom on the PJ produces a 74" diagonal image). So here is what I plan to get...

Carada Brilliant White 80" Diagonal Criterion 1.78 to 1 Screen ~US$645

I'll most liekly be ordering it on the 24th. Have to pay the bills and flight tuition first... :D

chas
08-04-2005, 01:59 PM
Congrats on the new projector Nick! Gotta be tough to wait on the new used Denon and screen......

Interesting feedback on the screens. Good to hear that net-direct is still a winner.

guess you won't miss that little tv for movies! :D

thanks for the update and pics. looking forward to the continuing saga!

Jonnyozero3
08-04-2005, 02:21 PM
Awesome Nick - looks like your setup is coming together nicely. I was suprised to see you screen choice after your recent comments - very ironic. It's good to see you don't give yourself bias ;) How did you evaluate the screen materials? Did you just tape them to the wall or something? I have to attach all of mine to something so I can do a big comparison.

jermy4
08-04-2005, 09:22 PM
I'm going to have to shorten my center speaker stand by 4-6". Right now all five monitors are at ear level, but this is a sacrifice I'll have to make, the screen just seems too high...

I wondered if you were going to be able to pull off all 5 speakers stands at the 30" mark. I remember seeing the mock screen you had on your wall and thinking to myself "that looks awfully high."

Lucky for you the Ascend's have an outstanding off axis response. Although, if your only going down a few inches you might not even be able to tell the difference.

I do happen to know someone who uses 5 identical floor standing speakers in his setup. He spent some serious cash on an acoustically transparent screen that works very well.

Nicholas Mosher
08-05-2005, 05:38 AM
Shortened my center speaker stand 6". It has an insert tacked in on each end with a threaded fitting, so all I did was grind the tacks off, pop the insert out, chop 6" off the tube, weld the insert back in, and touched it up with some flat black paint. I also cut the tubing at a 5* angle, which tilts the speakers up just right for the listening position. The tweeter is now 6" below the tweets on the other four monitors, but it makes a huge difference with screen positioning. I can already tell I will be getting a degradation in SACD/DVD-A quality from doing this though. Oh well...

I'm going to design a mount for the PJ today, and hopefully have it fabricated with the PJ up by the end of the weekend. The screen will come later this month.

Still waiting on the Denon... :rolleyes:

EDIT The samples I simply tacked to the wall. Then it was a simple game of "One of these things, doesn't belong here...". :p

Even though I don't have the room to run a perforated screen, they sure do look horrible with images! (atleast the Da-Lite ones).

chas
08-05-2005, 06:10 AM
Wow...quite a little operation on your speaker stand. The 5* angle is a nice touch.

Hope you'll find the time to document your projector mount project (with a few photos). :)

Any tracking info on the Denon?

jermy4
08-05-2005, 07:27 AM
Even though I don't have the room to run a perforated screen, they sure do look horrible with images! (atleast the Da-Lite ones).
Not always 100% true. You have to pay lots of money to get a good one.

That's why I said the screen cost some serious money. I think the acoustically transparent screen that a friend of mine has cost thousand of dollars. I'm not a screen expert but the picture is very impressive.

I'm more of an audio guy myself. In fact, I really liked your 13" TV. I do most of my TV watching on my computer's 20" LCD monitor or my old cheap ass 25" television. :D

Nicholas Mosher
08-05-2005, 10:04 AM
The used 2910 being sent as a replacement for my 2900 won't get here until next Thursday the 11th... :(

Another week of no music/no DVDs... :mad:

JohnnyCasaba
08-05-2005, 11:04 AM
Pick up a $60.00 player from Best Buy or Circuit City to tide you over.

bikeman
08-05-2005, 12:14 PM
Pick up a $60.00 player from Best Buy or Circuit City to tide you over.

Another good option is run a optical cable from the computer to the prepro and listen to Internet Radio. This is one area of marked improvement on my new Panny 55 receiver (review coming maybe next week) over the Kenwood it replaced. I'm one happy camper with this new receiver.

David

Kurt C.
08-05-2005, 12:40 PM
Are you planning a trip into Boston anytime soon? I have a POS DVD player that I'd be happy to give you. Nothing is cheaper than free.

Nicholas Mosher
08-06-2005, 01:09 PM
Too lazy to set it up with my computer, I'd have to buy a longer cord or move my whole PC setup (not happening... :D ). I actually considered getting one of the $40 APEX type players at Walmart, but decided just to wait. Thanks for the offer Kurt. The theater is slowly coming together. It should be ready to show-off in early september if you're still interested in checking it out. Started research in August '04 when I returned from my big roadtrip. Read alot of reviews and auditioned alot of stuff until November '04 when I started purchasing stuff. I was layed off from Mid February to Mid April which slowed purchases down to a crawl (1 sub), but I'm cruising again now. Almost finished. A cable, a screen, and some chairs (and a DVD player making it's laps around the world via UPS).

I have to say I was most relieved when I fired it up and the image was plenty bright enough. I was worried I was going to be squinting in my room due to four huge windows and the ambient light that escapes around the edges of the thick black material. There's enough light to read the remote and eat, which is great!

I went over to a hardware store and Walmart to find an articulating arm that I could weld onto two plates and make a great mount from. Found a TV wall mount similar to the brackets you find at hospitals and autoparts stores that hold the TVs up n' out of the way. Works pisser! Only $35 too. ;)

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/z3d.JPG

Four more days until the DVD player arrives. Picking up a 35'-40' HDMI cable (have to measure again) in two weeks, then the Carada screen in three weeks. With the current projector position I have to go 84" due to the PJ moving back about a 1'. The minimum zoom produces an 82" image. 84" is alot more than the recommended 72", but you gotta' do what you gotta' do I guess... :B

I'll be able to tell what size/quality is acceptable once I get the DVD player.

Excited! http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/headbang.gif http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/ahh.gif

Nicholas Mosher
08-06-2005, 01:15 PM
BY THE WAY GUYS...

Two days after I ordered the Z3 it went on sale for US$1499.00! It ticked me off because I hadn't even received mine yet, and the company won't credit me (I payed $1725). I was going to return and repurchase (to screw 'em) but they're one step ahead of me with a 20% restock fee... :mad:

For anyone else though, thats a great deal for a 720p projector that is rated along with the Panny AE-700U as being one of the best performance/values in the sub $3k PJ arena.

curtis
08-06-2005, 02:37 PM
I hate that restocking fee BS!

eRob
08-06-2005, 04:33 PM
How far back from the screen are you going to be?

N/m. Been awhile since I last looked at the thread that I forgot you already mentioned it in your first post.

Looks good so far. Looking forward to the screen shots once you get your Carada screen in.

Nicholas Mosher
08-11-2005, 12:28 PM
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/ss2.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/ss3.JPG

(note this is with 3x12' composite cables linked end to end with the 2910 doing the processing, HDMI with the Z3 doing the processing should be even better).

A couple quick shots. The three screen samples are the Carada samples (from L-R; Brilliant White, Classic Cinema White, High Contrast Grey). Changed my mind again too! With actual video being played, I've eliminated the Brilliant White and am now in a toss-up between the Classic Cinema White and High Contrast Grey.

I'll post a much more in depth opinion tomorrow w/more photos. Have to hit the hay...

Very very cool having an 84" widescreen image...

EDIT: To soothe my dissapointment with the Z3 price drop 2days after I ordered, Visual Apex is extending my PJ warranty to 4 years and I just received a 128MB USB Thumb Drive in the mail. I feel a little better now.

I'll also include pics/review of the 2910 which replaced my busted 2900 tomorrow.

Have a good one boys!

chas
08-11-2005, 12:37 PM
Wow, surprising how different each screen material looks. It will be interesting to hear how you make the final decision.

Glad to hear Visual Apex tried to take care of you ... 4 year warranty is not too shabby!

Nicholas Mosher
08-13-2005, 05:47 AM
I spent alot of time playing around with the Z3 yesterday. Switching between AVIA, FInding Nemo, LOTR: ROTK, and Sideways I tried various preset tunes, as well as some of my own.

I really can't do anything serious until I get my HDMI cable though. The 36' $1.99 composite cable which has two unions in it definetly does not bring the best out of the Z3. I temporarily moved the DVD-2910 next to it and used a short S-Video cord which was a definite improvement. With the long composite cable and 480i output of the DVD-2910 I'm getting some noise around white objects (not due to sharpness setting), and there is what I believe is called "crushing" around objects with a deep black background (such as in the Fish Are Friends meeting in chapter 8 of Finding Nemo). The S-Video cable eliminated that whitish noise and slightly improved the crushing. I'm looking forward to ordering/receiving a high-quality HDMI cable this Thursday the 18th. Then I can really take advantage of the Z3's capabilities which has a highly regarded processing ability (scaling, etc).

84" may be a bit big for my 8' eyeball to screen distance. I can barely see the screendoor (if I focus on it), but even scaled DVD resolution at this size/viewing distance is pushing it with some films. I'm used to watching DVDs on a 20" 1600x1200 LCD w/Power DVD... :B After seeing Sauron on 84", I don't think I'd want to see him at 72" anymore though. I also notice that as you enlarge the display, the rate at which the quality decreases becomes less and less. 72" is definetly sharper than 84", but 96" really isn't that much worse than 84". Interesting...

By ever so slightly de-focusing the PJ any visible screen door effect is eliminated, and the picture gains a slightly softer film quality which seems to increase the watchability with some tough scenes (such as small bright objects in a dark setting). The above screen shots of LOTR: ROTK have this slight de-focus.

I've got the Contrast/Brightness/Sharpness/Saturation/Hue settings down, but still working on making more detailed adjustment using the individual adjustable RGB color slides (which apparently is more accurate than using the simpler Saturation/Hue controls).

I really can't decide between Classic Cinema White (G1.0) and High Contrast Gray (G0.8). Blacks look so much better with the gray screen, and the picture for some reason appears a bit smoother. The colors definetly take a hit though. The reef scenes in Finding Nemo don't have the same pop as they do with a white screen. 90% of scenes look better on the gray screen though, especially darker scenes.

Anyhoo, thats a taste of what I've been playing with. I'll have some screen shots and more chit-chat later tonight or tomorrow.

bikeman
08-13-2005, 10:58 AM
Anyhoo, thats a taste of what I've been playing with. I'll have some screen shots and more chit-chat later tonight or tomorrow.

Even though I won't be purchasing a projector or screen anytime in the foreseeable future, I've really enjoyed you sharing your quest for video nirvana with us. I can't start on the video side of things till I'm done with the audio side and when are we ever done with the audio? Thanks, Nick.

David

curtis
08-13-2005, 03:09 PM
I second David's thoughts.

I have enjoyed following your process and money spending.

chas
08-18-2005, 09:27 AM
Nick,

Did you at any point consider a DIY screen? I don't know how well respected the reviews are at ProjectorCentral, but this review mentions that they felt the Goo Systems Digital Grey Lite paint "clearly" outperformed the Carada High Contrast Gray screen. I'm a bit skeptical of such a claim, but here it is:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/goo_systems_projector_screens.htm

chuck

Jonnyozero3
08-18-2005, 04:02 PM
Projector Central seems a bit....incomplete in their evaluations of different products I think. I used to go there, but their opinions don't impress me anymore. Kind of like the non-dvd player portion of Hometheaterhifi :(

Nicholas Mosher
08-20-2005, 02:08 PM
chas - I thought about the DIY screens, but if you figure your own time into it $600-$700 isn't bad considering that you would have to buy aluminum framing, velvet to line it, material, attachment mechanisms, brackets, etc. I guess I'm willing to pay a little extra for the service of manufacture.

Haven't abandoned the thread, just been working. Put 83hrs in this week, and just flew a "cross-country" flight this afternoon around a few local airports in the north-east.

Ordering the screen and HDMI cable this Thursday. I should have pics and stuff up after they arrive.

See-ya boys!

chas
08-21-2005, 05:27 PM
I thought about the DIY screens, but if you figure your own time into it $600-$700 isn't bad considering

I agree...especially for a person with my DIY skills. And when you look at the price of some of the other screens out there, $700 is pretty reasonable. Of course 43 hours of OT takes a bit of the sting out of the cost as well! :D

Nicholas Mosher
08-25-2005, 10:01 AM
Ordered a Carada 1:1.78 84" Criterion screen today with the High Contrast Gray material. I was on the fence for such a long time deciding between the 1.0 and 0.8 Gain screens. Had some people over for some quick opinions, and everyone preferred the gray screen. Seeing as I liked both for their different strengths, I went with the popular vote.

Also ordered a 40' HDMI cable from Blue Jeans Cables.

Pic's definetly to come when I receive everything.

Gotta' go!

Have a good one boys!

chas
08-28-2005, 05:32 AM
Sounds like it will all be coming together soon! Are there any issues running long lengths of HDMI?

Nicholas Mosher
08-28-2005, 05:47 AM
Received the 40' HDMI cable. Nothing special exterior wise, but the cable is thick/heavy which is always a good sign in long cable runs. After trying it out just on my wall, all I can say is that if you have the option to run HDMI, do it! The decrease in noise is incredible. I see no "crushing" around objects in dark scenes now, and that blur and/or pixelation around objects in highcontrast scenes has vanished. Excellent shipping by Blue Jeans btw. Ordered Thursday around noon, and had the cable Saturday morning.

I ordered the screen from Carada around the same time last Thursday. They eMailed a receipt and my bank has locked out the funds, but I haven't received a shipping notice yet. Hopefully it will be on Mon/Tue or I will have to give'em a call. Can't wait to get it all setup. I'll be sure to post pictures and opinions when it's all up and going.

Nicholas Mosher
09-01-2005, 04:31 AM
Screen should arrive sometime today.
Pics when it's setup.

Nicholas Mosher
09-03-2005, 12:24 PM
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/carada1.JPG

More to come once it's all calibrated.
Excellent quality/price ratio!
Another winning internet direct manufacturer!

curtis
09-03-2005, 02:40 PM
Sweet!!

Nicholas Mosher
09-04-2005, 11:15 AM
Ok guys, have everything hooked up and calibrated.

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/ss01.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/ss02.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/ss03.JPG
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/ss04.JPG
(note: these images seem to be pushing red a bit. Actual reading is <+5%)

To review, my Video path is...

Denon DVD-2910 Universal Player
HDMI Cable
Sanyo PLV-Z3 Projector (1280x720 3 Chip LCD)
Carada 84" Criterion Screen w/ 0.8 Gain High Contrast Grey Material

To start off, I'm glad I bought a PJ setup over a 50" 720p Plasma. There's simply no comparison to a big 84" image from 8' away. It was also cheaper in the long run saving me well over $1k.

Dark scenes/films require the elimination of most ambient light for that plasma-type brightness. I have four huge windows in my room which are covered with thick black curtains. Light still spills over the top and around the edges, but even with the doorway open letting in light from the kitchen, I can achieve more than adequate darkness for a rich image. Of course it gets even better when watching at night with zero ambient light. Blacks are only as dark as the screen appears with the PJ shutoff. Bright whites on the screen are only as white as the screen is with the lights on. Knowing these two things, the greyscreen gives impressive blacks, but cut's down on the whitest whites a bit. The increase of black depth definetly increases the contrast ratio though. It also seems to smooth out the image. Color "snap" does seem to suffer a bit, but it's 90% acceptable.

The 2910 black setting was set to 'Enhanced" which outputs the deepest of blacks and whitest of whites. Output from the 2910 via HDMI is RGB 720p. I felt the 2910 scaler was better than the Sanyo's. The Z3 has a manual Iris which I closed as far as it would go. Other than the sharpness being cut to -4, pretty much all of the other stock settings were perfect. I boosted the Contrast a bit and decreased the brightness a bit, just a tad mind you. Lamp mode is on low.

I ended up with a +5% red, and -5% blue, with green at an even neutral using AVIA. I'm going to experiment a bit more to see if I can get this exactly neutral. It looks damn near perfect now though, so I'm in no rush.

Another trick which works excellent is slightly defocusing the image. I'm talking very slightly. I can't see the actual gaps between pixels from my seat, but with the focus completely sharp I can notice the limitations of DVD resolution during complex scenes with lots of small objects. Ever so slightly defocusing blends the edges of each pixel with the next giving a filmlike quality to the image. It also seems to help when viewing poor transfers, and makes ultrasharp digital animation even more breathtaking.

Going with an HDMI cable is an absolute improvemnet over a composite cable too! Not sure of it's gains over other methods though. I'd bet DVI looks equally impressive. Every aspect of the image is improved, and it's more than marginal. I'd even go as far as saying that it's even more important than a screen.

My A/V setup is finally complete. All I have left to get now is three chairs/ottomans to replace my fugly couch.

The PJ/Screen/Cable was only US$2600.

chas
09-06-2005, 07:03 AM
Looks terrific Nick! Congrats on the entire AV set-up and thanks for taking us with you through the process....I know I've learned a lot through your research. How are you liking the 2910 ?

Nicholas Mosher
09-06-2005, 09:35 AM
Thanks Chas! The planning process began in August of 2004, and the purchases begain in November 2004. It's been about a year worth of research, auditioning, and spare cash to get to this point. Just can't wait to get comfy chairs/ottomans to enjoy it from. My couch just seems so out of place now... :p

I don't notice a single difference between the 2900 and 2910 but I'm still sore about Denon's response (or lack there of, they failed to return twenty some-odd phone calls). I'm no longer recommending Denon to my friends/family because of this. The 2910 has been fantastic so far though. Rest assured, my next player (as in HD-DVD/Blu-Ray) will not be a Denon... they lost my business for life.