Sierra 2EX V2 Subwoofer Integration Question

[Oldie1]

Hi,

I was fortunate enough to acquire a pair of preowned 2EX’s at a very good price point.

I am currently evaluating a few different configurations with existing equipment that I own.

I paired them with a Billie Amp V1, but the Billie pairs much better with a set of Philharmonic BMRs that I own.

My second configuration is with a Parasound Pre 200 preamp and either a Mini GaN5 or Vintage Superphon DM200.
I also have an SVS2000 subwoofer.

The Parasound preamp has a bass management, so I can use a high pass filter to the 2EX’s.

Questions for those who use a subwoofer with the 2EXs are:
- Do you use a high pass filter for your mains?
- If so, what frequency do you recommend?

Quite honestly, I’m not sure that I even “need” the subwoofer, but I already own it.

Thanks

[racrawford65]

I'd try an 80 hz x-over to start. I'd probably not go too much lower or higher.

[Oldie1]

Thanks, I’ll try 80hz first.

Did you notice any sound quality difference from the main speakers using the crossover?



My room is far from perfect.

[natetg57]

Hi,

I was fortunate enough to acquire a pair of preowned 2EX’s at a very good price point.

I am currently evaluating a few different configurations with existing equipment that I own.

I paired them with a Billie Amp V1, but the Billie pairs much better with a set of Philharmonic BMRs that I own.

My second configuration is with a Parasound Pre 200 preamp and either a Mini GaN5 or Vintage Superphon DM200.
I also have an SVS2000 subwoofer.

The Parasound preamp has a bass management, so I can use a high pass filter to the 2EX’s.

Questions for those who use a subwoofer with the 2EXs are:
- Do you use a high pass filter for your mains?
- If so, what frequency do you recommend?

Quite honestly, I’m not sure that I even “need” the subwoofer, but I already own it.

Thanks

If I was you, I'd prioritize the V2 upgraded crossover for your speakers. That will make a bigger improvement and difference than changing amps.

[novaduckfan1]

Thanks, I’ll try 80hz first.

Did you notice any sound quality difference from the main speakers using the crossover?



My room is far from perfect.

Hello Oldie1,

I have a pair of 2EXv2s and a pair of SVS SB2000 Pro subwoofers. I agree with racrawford that setting your LPF/HPF to 80Hz is a very good place to start; that setting works very well for me in a 2.2 configuration. Before I added the 2nd subwoofer, I used a 60Hz LPF/HPF, which worked well but with two subwoofers all frequencies below 80Hz sound much smoother in more room locations. I think natetg57 is correct that the amplifiers are not likely to make as much difference as the speakers themselves.

[Oldie1]

If I was you, I'd prioritize the V2 upgraded crossover for your speakers. That will make a bigger improvement and difference than changing amps.

Thanks. I didn't realize that one was available. I received the speakers after the previous owner upgraded to V2 (I presume). The old components and crossover were given to me by the dealer.

[natetg57]

Thanks. I didn't realize that one was available. I received the speakers after the previous owner upgraded to V2 (I presume). The old components and crossover were given to me by the dealer.

If the previous owner upgraded to V2, then there should be a 'V2 NFS Optimized' sticker on the back of each speaker. You could also look at the crossover itself and compare it to the upgraded one at this link. https://ascendacoustics.com/collections/upgrades/products/sierra-2ex-to-sierra-2ex-v2?variant=40434233278518

[Oldie1]

If the previous owner upgraded to V2, then there should be a 'V2 NFS Optimized' sticker on the back of each speaker. You could also look at the crossover itself and compare it to the upgraded one at this link. https://ascendacoustics.com/collections/upgrades/products/sierra-2ex-to-sierra-2ex-v2?variant=40434233278518

Thanks Nate. Will check it out when the dust settles after the holidays.

[davef]

Hi,

I was fortunate enough to acquire a pair of preowned 2EX’s at a very good price point.

I am currently evaluating a few different configurations with existing equipment that I own.

I paired them with a Billie Amp V1, but the Billie pairs much better with a set of Philharmonic BMRs that I own.

My second configuration is with a Parasound Pre 200 preamp and either a Mini GaN5 or Vintage Superphon DM200.
I also have an SVS2000 subwoofer.

The Parasound preamp has a bass management, so I can use a high pass filter to the 2EX’s.

Questions for those who use a subwoofer with the 2EXs are:
- Do you use a high pass filter for your mains?
- If so, what frequency do you recommend?

Quite honestly, I’m not sure that I even “need” the subwoofer, but I already own it.

Thanks

How are you determining that your Billie amp is not pairing well with the Sierra-2EX?

[Oldie1]

Hi David,

Thanks for responding.

I should have explained:

The Sierras sound "good" with the Billie, but not as the Billie paired with my BMR monitors. The Billie sounds a bit "lean" with the Sierras compared to the BMRs.

On the other hand, with my Parasound preamp + Superphon amp combo, the BMRs have too much bass while the Sierras sound really nice.

I am attempting to add just a little to the bottom end to the Sierras. (Admittedly, not really a need. It's just that I already have the subwoofer and bass management features and an experimenting before I sell anything off). If I didn't already own the subwoofer, I don't think I'd be looking for one.

[davef]

Hi David,

Thanks for responding.

I should have explained:

The Sierras sound "good" with the Billie, but not as the Billie paired with my BMR monitors. The Billie sounds a bit "lean" with the Sierras compared to the BMRs.

On the other hand, with my Parasound preamp + Superphon amp combo, the BMRs have too much bass while the Sierras sound really nice.

I am attempting to add just a little to the bottom end to the Sierras. (Admittedly, not really a need. It's just that I already have the subwoofer and bass management features and an experimenting before I sell anything off). If I didn't already own the subwoofer, I don't think I'd be looking for one.

The BMR's do have a bit deeper bass extension than our Sierra-2EXv2, as they should being significantly larger speakers with much more cabinet volume.

While an amplifier should reproduce 20Hz - 20kHz with a ruler flat response (typically within +/- 0.1dB) - I have come across some amplifiers that do boost lower bass signals. Sounds like either your Billie is a bit thin on bass, or that the Superphon might be slight boosted (most likely the case)

[Oldie1]

David,

I’ll be be running additional configurations into the mix next week and will post my assessment. I have a Mini GaN5 for evaluation.

[bkdc]

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out. I find it surprising that modern amplifiers can boost bass or have audible effects. These days, you really have to TRY to design a solid state amplifier poorly so that it is not transparent and ruler flat.

I caved recently and purchased the MiniDSP Flex 8 with Dirac room correction. Bluesound Node -> MiniDSP -> 2 channels to amplifier, 2 channels to subwoofers. Makes integration with subwoofers a DREAM. The SVS software was easy to use but allowing Dirac to do the work and having DSP control over each channel really makes things easy (and complicated at the same time). I couldn’t give up the guitar pluck detail on the Sierra-2EX in exchange for the benefits of the LX. I listen to mostly acoustic and classical. Now with two SVS 3000 Micro subs and some extra TLC with Dirac room correction, I’m a happy camper.

[Oldie1]

I spent 9 hours driving up the East Coast during the ice storm yesterday. Sooo, I just had to mess with my system when I got home 😵*💫

Parasound Pre using the 80hz sub out and the high pass filter to the mains at 60hz sounded better than doing both at 80hz for some reason. This is with the Mini GaN 5 amp. The sound is a tad bright and "analytical". I'll hook up the Superphon amp later today or tomorrow after taking care of the snow and ice.

The Parasound + Mini GaN combo was way too bright through the BMR2s. Some recordings from the late 80s are extremely bright.

The Billie Amp used as a preamp only sounds incredible with anything I've paired it with. That's another rat hole!

[Oldie1]

Thank you for all of your responses. I'm going to wrap this up:
- I could not dial in the sound I wanted with the Parasound Pre / SVS Subwoofer / Mini GaN amp. I changed crossover points via the bass management system and changed interconnect cables - but not satisfied.

- I came across a pre-owned Conrad Johnson tube preamp and ran the speakers full range with the GaN -> Done! No need for the subwoofer. Very pleased with the sound.

[choirbass]

I would suggest a 40Hz sub xover..Higher than that is too localizable (spelling).

[curtis]

I would suggest a 40Hz sub xover..Higher than that is too localizable (spelling).
I would say play around with a crossover below 100hz. Try difference settings to see what sounds best for you. Studies have shown that sub may not be localizable up to 200hz.

I have the LX and cross to a F15hp at 60hz. On their own, I get good response from the LX in my room down to the low 30's hz.

When I had Sierra-2's, I crossed at 80hz.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/subwoofer-localization-studies.3058756/

[billy p]

If it's feasible....you could also implement separate cross-overs for music & home theater....in the latter, I perfer... the sub set at 90hz....I get better tactile feel ...in my room...music it's 60hz....ymmv.

[choirbass]

Hey Curtis,

After checking the link, they gave 100Hz as the highest, not 200.

My highest is 40Hz, after spending years of simply disliking any sub I heard. I could always hear the sub. Which is not what you want. A sub should act as support, not as an additional speaker. Above 40Hz becomes directional

[curtis]

Hey Curtis,

After checking the link, they gave 100Hz as the highest, not 200.

My highest is 40Hz, after spending years of simply disliking any sub I heard. I could always hear the sub. Which is not what you want. A sub should act as support, not as an additional speaker. Above 40Hz becomes directional
Read the entire first post:
"Very little directional information below about 200Hz".

80hz has been the defacto standard to sub crossover settings and to when bass becomes directional since THX standards were developed, That said, this hobby, as we all know, is very subjective, all rooms are different, and we all should do what we are happy with.

[choirbass]

The 80Hz THX standard for movies is much too high IMO. Yes 40Hz is half that. Just read this but 40Hz is good for brain therapy.

As far as sub xover preference. i'm just largely going on youtube personalities like Paul McGowan
of PS Audio

Yes, this hobby. It's my life. As far as why I don't have newer than the S2, it's due to parental restrictions. Scratch that, I have a pair of Lunas that I purchased a few years ago. They were being used until just recently. Turning my 2 ch dac into a 4 ch dac with the use of pro logic was more of an eye opener

[N Boros]

The 80Hz THX standard for movies is much too high IMO. Yes 40Hz is half that. Just read this but 40Hz is good for brain therapy.

As far as sub xover preference. i'm just largely going on youtube personalities like Paul McGowan
of PS Audio

Yes, this hobby. It's my life. As far as why I don't have newer than the S2, it's due to parental restrictions. Scratch that, I have a pair of Lunas that I purchased a few years ago. They were being used until just recently. Turning my 2 ch dac into a 4 ch dac with the use of pro logic was more of an eye opener

I know when I had a single Outlaw Audio subwoofer, I felt like it couldn’t keep up with my Sierra 2s in the 50 to 80Hz region. In other words, when lowering the crossover from 80 Hz to 50Hz I could hear more detail in that region with material that I was familiar with. I also noticed a slight bit of localization that you discussed with an 80Hz crossover, with some material. In my case I am primarily using my system for movies and TV, where a 50Hz crossover is too low for LFE effects. I was nervous about damaging the woofer.

After upgrading to a pair of Rythmik Fv15HPs, that I place across the room from each other to help cancel out any big peaks or dips, both concerns have been fixed. Bass is not localizable in any seat in the room. Bass is pretty consistent in any seat in the room. I can use an 80Hz crossover or a 50Hz crossover and I hear the same detail in that 50 to 80Hz range. The advantage of letting the subs handle the 50 to 80Hz range is that they can do it much much better, because I can now turn up the volume dial as loud as I can stand without worrying about damaging the Sierra 2s woofers if their is a big LFE effect. In fact the Sierra 2s are probably the bottleneck for how loud the system can get, but it is more than enough for me. I don’t go more than -15dB.

I see you have one L12 sub. Maybe try another placed across the room from the first one. I bet it will fix any localization issues if you use a higher crossover.

[choirbass]

Rooms too small to accommodate a second sub, don't think I'll be moving any higher than 40Hz on the xover anyhow.Tho a pair of stacked subs would work regarding space limitations. The reality however is that all of my HI-FI purchasing is on hold for the foreseeable future

[choirbass]

https://youtu.be/X-yIjCx92iQ?si=95XJbbi21qMotFc8

heres one video on youtube explaining how to set a sub xover frequency

[curtis]

I know when I had a single Outlaw Audio subwoofer, I felt like it couldn’t keep up with my Sierra 2s in the 50 to 80Hz region. In other words, when lowering the crossover from 80 Hz to 50Hz I could hear more detail in that region with material that I was familiar with. I also noticed a slight bit of localization that you discussed with an 80Hz crossover, with some material. In my case I am primarily using my system for movies and TV, where a 50Hz crossover is too low for LFE effects. I was nervous about damaging the woofer.

After upgrading to a pair of Rythmik Fv15HPs, that I place across the room from each other to help cancel out any big peaks or dips, both concerns have been fixed. Bass is not localizable in any seat in the room. Bass is pretty consistent in any seat in the room. I can use an 80Hz crossover or a 50Hz crossover and I hear the same detail in that 50 to 80Hz range. The advantage of letting the subs handle the 50 to 80Hz range is that they can do it much much better, because I can now turn up the volume dial as loud as I can stand without worrying about damaging the Sierra 2s woofers if their is a big LFE effect. In fact the Sierra 2s are probably the bottleneck for how loud the system can get, but it is more than enough for me. I don’t go more than -15dB.

I see you have one L12 sub. Maybe try another placed across the room from the first one. I bet it will fix any localization issues if you use a higher crossover.
This is pretty much the same scenario I had with a Hsu subwoofer (Hsu designed the Outlaw sub) and my Sierra 2's. When I changed to Rythmik F15, I could easily raise the crossover point with no discernable difference in sound.

Now, to the LX, I heard a difference between 60hz and 80hz crossover points. At 80hz, the sound lost some of its punchiness (still not localizable thought), at 60hz the punchiness was back.

[curtis]

https://youtu.be/X-yIjCx92iQ?si=95XJbbi21qMotFc8

heres one video on youtube explaining how to set a sub xover frequency
He leaves out some critical steps.

What level do you set the subwoofer and how do you set it.

He also doesn't talk about bass management. Is he sending a full range signal to the mains and just setting the crossover on the sub? Is he using bass management and high passing?

Some very important points in setting up a subwoofer.

[choirbass]

All I can say is he has quite a few videos, what he leaves out in one video he covers in a different video. Can only talk about so much for 5 minutes.