Buy a pair of Rythmik L12's?

[larson92]

I need your help!

I'm new to Ascend, but I have three LX speakers on their way!

I also have two brand new SVS SB-1000 PRO subwoofers that are still on their trial period, so I could easily return them. But I've noticed that everyone on this forum seems to love the Rythmik subs.

For me, it would have to be the L12 subs, not the F12 due to cost. Cost is a little more than I got the SVS subs for, but not terrible. However, the L12's are on backorder until mid-October. :(

I could also get the REL HT-1205 MKII for just a little more ($650 each), but they are a little deep (in size) for the cabinet that they're going in (which I'm still designing, so I might be able to convince myself to make the room).

The room is nominally 14 x 16 with 9 ft ceilings, but it's an open floor plan that extends on three sides by 10 ft, 8 ft, or 14 ft.

The purpose is probably 70% Home Theater/30% music, and with the LX for L/C/R speakers I figured the subwoofers are primarily for HT. Plan to crossover at 60 or 80 -- thinking maybe 80 just because the LX's will be in a cabinet maybe 6-8 inches from the back of it.

Surrounds are Bowers & Wilkins M-1's. Probably cross them over at 80.

I don't think the REL sub goes low enough to really make a huge difference with the LX's (compared to using the LX's full range), even though musically it's a great sub.

So, I'm considering ordering the L12. What do you think?

Thanks!

[MusicHead]

I have owned a single L12 for many years now, together with a pair of Ascend CMT-340SE as L/R mains, crossed at 80Hz.
If I had the space I would add a second one in a heartbeat!
My room is a tiny bit longer and larger than yours but with 8ft ceiling. It is an open floor plan as well, but it extends on two sides into the rest of the lower level.
I am very satisfied with the results for both HT and Music. Being sealed, the L12 does not have the sheer output than a ported sub would have. However, because it is sealed, the frequency response drops off more gently than a ported sub. With the gain added by the room, it means that it will still have usable extension below 20Hz.
In your case, with two L12s you are adding 3dB of output, so you are golden.
Considering how controlled the L12 is, both because it is a sealed design and because of the servo, I think you will enjoy it with music too. I sure do!
I have no direct experience with SVS or REL, but the L12 at its price is an incredible value.

[Mag_Neato]

Although a bit larger and a little more money, the LV12M is the latest version of the LV12F, which I own 2 of. They will give you higher SPL vs the L12 by approx +3db. The L12M is more compact than my L12F, which may be the only significant difference. For a ported sub they are very tight and controlled, likely due to the Direct Servo technology. They may be on par in that category with most other manufacturer's sealed subs.

[larson92]

Although a bit larger and a little more money, the LV12M is the latest version of the LV12F, which I own 2 of. They will give you higher SPL vs the L12 by approx +3db. The L12M is more compact than my L12F, which may be the only significant difference. For a ported sub they are very tight and controlled, likely due to the Direct Servo technology. They may be on par in that category with most other manufacturer's sealed subs.

Thanks! It's the height and depth on the LV12M that kill me (along with the 60 lb weight).

My biggest hesitation on the 12L is that it will be placed in a cabinet with only a few inches on the sides, above, and behind and it weighs over 50 lbs. Since all of the controls are manual knobs on the back, this means that every little adjustment will be awkward.

The other slight hesitation is that the 12L doesn't have a 12V trigger input--and the Standby power consumption is a little high (7W). Similar to the above, I won't be pulling it out of the cabinet just so I can turn it on or off, so that means 7W of wasted power 24/7 -- which equates to 5 KWhr per month of wasted energy.

[Mag_Neato]

Thanks! It's the height and depth on the LV12M that kill me (along with the 60 lb weight).

My biggest hesitation on the 12L is that it will be placed in a cabinet with only a few inches on the sides, above, and behind and it weighs over 50 lbs. Since all of the controls are manual knobs on the back, this means that every little adjustment will be awkward.

The other slight hesitation is that the 12L doesn't have a 12V trigger input--and the Standby power consumption is a little high (7W). Similar to the above, I won't be pulling it out of the cabinet just so I can turn it on or off, so that means 7W of wasted power 24/7 -- which equates to 5 KWhr per month of wasted energy.

I don't know, does 5 KWhr/month equate to a lot? I guess you could use a smart power strip that is WI-FI connected? For my 2 mono amps that only have a on/off switch on the front, I have them plugged in to a remote controlled outlet pigtail. All 4 of my Rythmik subs (2 LV12F's and 2 F12's) are just on standby.

[Mag_Neato]

Once set up correctly you should not need to access the amp controls, but yeah, trying to dial it in like that will be a major PITA. What room correction method are you going to use, i.e Audyssey, Dirac, etc.? For most types of auto correction, you should only need to get the sub volume within acceptable range for the correction software to finish the setup, so if you can dial that in within a few tries you should be golden. The software will handle distance(phase), final volume levels and any applied room EQ.

[larson92]

Sorry folks, but in attempting to edit my post, it got deleted. Here it is again:

For two subs, it’s less than $1/mo, so it’s not much at all. And I should be able to work around this with something like a switched power strip.

The bigger hesitation is the challenge with adjusting them for my room (and I’ve heard the L12s are pickier than average for adjusting). The SVS subs are very easy to make adjustments on using the SVS app. But you should only have to adjust them each once, right?
—————————————-
Note that by comparison, the SVS is 0.5 watts in standby.

[larson92]

I have Audyssey.

It’s playing with the phase that scares me—and I don’t think Audyssey does anything with phase.

[larson92]

I reread Mag Neato’s post, and I forgot that distance was the same as phase. So maybe all will be well! :-)

[curtis]

If you have two people and an SPL meter, setting phase is easy.

BTW...I think I read the sub is going into a cabinet? What kind of cabinet? It is generally not a good idea.

[novaduckfan1]

larson92,

I have not heard the Rhythmiks so I cannot comment on them. I'm confident that the reviews you cite are accurate. I do have 2 SVS SB-2000 Pros crossed over at 80 hz with my 2EXv2s and they sound fantastic. Having dual subs provides several benefits in terms of room modes, a wider soundstage, etc. while also providing amazing deep bass to complement all sound above the crossover point on the 2EXv2s. In addition, having the SVS app makes it very simple to adjust directly from my listening area without having to constantly fiddle with the settings on the back of each sub. I am just curious to know about your assessment of the SB-1000s and why you are looking for alternatives, especially given the LXs already can provide very good bass, allowing you to use an even lower crossover point.

[larson92]

If you have two people and an SPL meter, setting phase is easy.

BTW...I think I read the sub is going into a cabinet? What kind of cabinet? It is generally not a good idea.

I’m building a HT built-in, and the subs will be under the L/R speakers. Size is approx 18w x 17h x 18d. L/R speakers will be just above in a similar “cabinet”/shelf.

[larson92]

larson92,

I have not heard the Rhythmiks so I cannot comment on them. I'm confident that the reviews you cite are accurate. I do have 2 SVS SB-2000 Pros crossed over at 80 hz with my 2EXv2s and they sound fantastic. Having dual subs provides several benefits in terms of room modes, a wider soundstage, etc. while also providing amazing deep bass to complement all sound above the crossover point on the 2EXv2s. In addition, having the SVS app makes it very simple to adjust directly from my listening area without having to constantly fiddle with the settings on the back of each sub. I am just curious to know about your assessment of the SB-1000s and why you are looking for alternatives, especially given the LXs already can provide very good bass, allowing you to use an even lower crossover point.

I think it’s just been seeing how everyone here loves the Rythmik subs. I haven’t even taken the SB-1000 Pro’s out of the box yet (got on their Labor Day special) as I’ve been playing with a borrowed SB-1000 Pro first to see how I like it (and the room is currently in an unfinished basement). So far, it seems okay but often I am not sure it it’s even on (even though I know that it is and can even see the driver moving). Still playing with Audyssey and the setup.

I’m glad to hear that someone loves their SVS subs combined with Ascend speakers. Not sure why the SB-2000 Pro costs so much more than the SB-1000 Pro. Even then, I’ve considered upgrading to the SB-2000 Pro just to be safe, but I think the SB-1000 Pros will be enough. The room is 14x18 with 9ft ceilings, but it’s an open floor plan and so it extends on 3 sides.

[curtis]

I’m building a HT built-in, and the subs will be under the L/R speakers. Size is approx 18w x 17h x 18d. L/R speakers will be just above in a similar “cabinet”/shelf.
For the best sub bass in the room, the best location for the sub is usually not the same location as the speakers. That said, aesthetically, I understand people like the symmetrical look. Do your best to make the cabinet as inert as possible...no vibration/resonance. If it vibrates/resonates, everything attached/touching that cabinet will be affected.

The LX's are also capable of causing some bass shaking too.

I run LX's with a Rythmik F15HP, crossed at 60hz. My room is the size of yours, but not open. I've had the F15HP for a while paired with CMT-340SE's, Sierra-1's, Sierra-2's, and now the Sierra-LX's. Other than the LX's, the others were crossed at 80hz.

[novaduckfan1]

I think it’s just been seeing how everyone here loves the Rythmik subs. I haven’t even taken the SB-1000 Pro’s out of the box yet (got on their Labor Day special) as I’ve been playing with a borrowed SB-1000 Pro first to see how I like it (and the room is currently in an unfinished basement). So far, it seems okay but often I am not sure it it’s even on (even though I know that it is and can even see the driver moving). Still playing with Audyssey and the setup.

I’m glad to hear that someone loves their SVS subs combined with Ascend speakers. Not sure why the SB-2000 Pro costs so much more than the SB-1000 Pro. Even then, I’ve considered upgrading to the SB-2000 Pro just to be safe, but I think the SB-1000 Pros will be enough. The room is 14x18 with 9ft ceilings, but it’s an open floor plan and so it extends on 3 sides.

Understood. In my case, the SVS 2000s are worth every penny - amazing. I suggest you try using one of the SVS 1000s you bought along with the loaner, and with the LPF set at 60 Hz to benefit fully from the LXs (probably the best overall Ascend speaker not named ELX). If for some reason it doesn't work out, go for the Rhythmiks. Really I think the hard part is over - you bought Ascend speakers! Go dual and see how that addresses any room issues you might have, with and without Audyssey. Hope this helps!

[larson92]

For the best sub bass in the room, the best location for the sub is usually not the same location as the speakers. That said, aesthetically, I understand people like the symmetrical look. Do your best to make the cabinet as inert as possible...no vibration/resonance. If it vibrates/resonates, everything attached/touching that cabinet will be affected.

Thanks for the reminder about vibration and resonance. I'm doing my best on this.

[larson92]

Understood. In my case, the SVS 2000s are worth every penny - amazing. I suggest you try using one of the SVS 1000s you bought along with the loaner, and with the LPF set at 60 Hz to benefit fully from the LXs (probably the best overall Ascend speaker not named ELX). If for some reason it doesn't work out, go for the Rhythmiks. Really I think the hard part is over - you bought Ascend speakers! Go dual and see how that addresses any room issues you might have, with and without Audyssey. Hope this helps!

I tried adding the second SB-1000 Pro subwoofer, and it's crazy how much difference it makes!

Audyssey came up with levels of +6dB for the F/C/R (all LX's) and -8dB/-10dB for the subs, so I think I have some room as far as subwoofer levels go.

It all sounds pretty darn good now, too!

[Mag_Neato]

Understood. In my case, the SVS 2000s are worth every penny - amazing. I suggest you try using one of the SVS 1000s you bought along with the loaner, and with the LPF set at 60 Hz to benefit fully from the LXs (probably the best overall Ascend speaker not named ELX). If for some reason it doesn't work out, go for the Rhythmiks. Really I think the hard part is over - you bought Ascend speakers! Go dual and see how that addresses any room issues you might have, with and without Audyssey. Hope this helps!

Dual subs (Rythmik F12's) addressed a room issue for my 2EX V2's. I have the 2EX's positioned where they sound the best, but there is a significant dip in frequency response between 50-80hz on their own. I was getting that same dip with a single F12, but adding the 2nd with the ability to locate it in the room where it gave a boost in the 50-80hz range was key. I was then able to correct/EQ the response with the MiniDSP 2x4HD.

[novaduckfan1]

I tried adding the second SB-1000 Pro subwoofer, and it's crazy how much difference it makes!

Audyssey came up with levels of +6dB for the F/C/R (all LX's) and -8dB/-10dB for the subs, so I think I have some room as far as subwoofer levels go.

It all sounds pretty darn good now, too!

Fantastic! Glad that "going dual" appears to have helped your system sound better. At some point we have to stop and enjoy the music, so I hope that you're closer to that point if not already there. Keep us posted as you continue your sonic journey!

[racrawford65]

IMO, going dual subs, properly placed, should help anyone's system sound better, primarily by evening out bass response.

[novaduckfan1]

Dual subs (Rythmik F12's) addressed a room issue for my 2EX V2's. I have the 2EX's positioned where they sound the best, but there is a significant dip in frequency response between 50-80hz on their own. I was getting that same dip with a single F12, but adding the 2nd with the ability to locate it in the room where it gave a boost in the 50-80hz range was key. I was then able to correct/EQ the response with the MiniDSP 2x4HD.

Glad this worked out for you. :cool:

Having dual subs has had so many benefits for me that I would always recommend the investment, particularly for music lovers who don't have "full range" speakers (or close to it) and/or who also use their systems for movie watching. It provides more listeners with a better deep bass experience from a wider range of listening positions.