This newbie bought used Sierra 2's & Horizon center. What now? Subwoofer? Receiver?

[Jason08]

Hi -- I'm a neophyte audiophile.

I first dipped my toe into the home theater ocean about 10 years ago with the purchase of a 5.1 system assembled from Polk Monitor Series II 40/30's, CS1, and PSW505. They worked when I plugged them in and sounded alright. I didn't learn any more than that. I've definitely been wading around in the kiddie pool here.

I still don't know how to swim, but last week, I jumped in head-first into the depths after finding a great deal locally on second-hand Ascend Sierra 2's and a Horizon center. I heard them before purchase with the seller and they were incredible. Of course, he had paired them with two Rythmik subs and knew how to configure the system properly. I have yet to set them up and hear them in my own space.

Even second-hand, this purchase was way over my initial budget. Now, I'm looking at spending even more on a decent subwoofer and, possibly, a receiver to outfit a killer 3.1 system for film, games, and music. I am hoping that the folks here can share some recommendations that won't melt my wallet. It's easy to get carried away.

1. I already own a Yamaha TSR-700 (7.2, 100 watt) receiver. Is this sufficient? Would I be that much better off with a Denon X3800H ($999 on sale recently) with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 or Dirac ($259)? I could also tune down the bass/LFE for the benefit of my neighbors?

2. I already ordered a couple of SVS subwoofers last week at clearance pricing. Emotiva is also having a clearance sale. As an apartment resident, I want to be considerate of my neighbors and I'm interested more in musical depth than rumble.

Considering:


Rythmik L12 ($690)
Emotiva Airmotiv XS10 ($400)
Emotiva Airmotiv Se12 Flex ($269)
SVS SB-1000 ($350)
SVS PB-1000 Pro ($500)


What's the best value?

Thanks!

[racrawford65]

My opinion on the subs
Rythmik, then SVS, and wouldn’t touch Emotiva

I think the Yamaha would be fine. I’d use it for awhile and listen. Then maybe consider a different AVR

Are the S2’s the original version? If so, maybe consider upgrading to EXv2 or LX (with the LX, could delay a sub purchase). You might want to call Ascend to get their thoughts.

[natetg57]

I had a ported SVS sub a long time ago but wasn't happy with the way it sounded. Always was boomy in my small room. I much prefer Rythmik. I have 2 L12s and they sound great to me. They drop down to $600 each if you buy two.

[Jason08]

My opinion on the subs
Rythmik, then SVS, and wouldn’t touch Emotiva

I think the Yamaha would be fine. I’d use it for awhile and listen. Then maybe consider a different AVR

Are the S2’s the original version? If so, maybe consider upgrading to EXv2 or LX (with the LX, could delay a sub purchase). You might want to call Ascend to get their thoughts.

Thanks for your thoughts. They are original Sierra 2's. Beautiful sound: I can't imagine anything better. But spending on an upgrade might make more sense than a subwoofer for all the other benefits plus deeper bass. And my neighbors might prefer that I skip the sub...

I'll give Ascend a call; that's a good idea.


I had a ported SVS sub a long time ago but wasn't happy with the way it sounded. Always was boomy in my small room. I much prefer Rythmik. I have 2 L12s and they sound great to me. They drop down to $600 each if you buy two.

Thanks! Yeah, I definitely don't want boominess . From everything I've read online, the consensus seems to be Rythmik. I could also plan a weekend road trip to Austin from Houston to save on shipping.

[natetg57]

Thanks for your thoughts. They are original Sierra 2's. Beautiful sound: I can't imagine anything better. But spending on an upgrade might make more sense than a subwoofer for all the other benefits plus deeper bass. And my neighbors might prefer that I skip the sub...

I'll give Ascend a call; that's a good idea.



Thanks! Yeah, I definitely don't want boominess . From everything I've read online, the consensus seems to be Rythmik. I could also plan a weekend road trip to Austin from Houston to save on shipping.

If you love the raal tweeter, then consider eventually upgrading to 2EX V2, even though the LX sound amazing with rock. The Raals are a little better for acoustic guitar and violin. But what you have now is good too!

[racrawford65]

Where in Houston are you?

[Jason08]

Where in Houston are you?

Hey, another Houstonian? I'm near Memorial Park. :cool:

[racrawford65]

Cool. I live near Spring

[racrawford65]

One other thought. I’m wondering if you are in an apartment or townhouse - thus your concern about a sub/neighbors? Who cares. Lol just kidding. If you watch a lot of movies and feel the tactile response isn’t good, you could consider some shakers/transducers. I started with some buttkickers (they were just ok). I then moved to a pair Crowsons and they are awesome. They are expensive and a couple of month waitlist, but being the feel to movies. I sometimes even use them with music. Enrico at Rythmik recommended them to me when I spoke with him about possibly adding another (3rd) sub nearfield for more tactile response. Rythmik, like Ascend are a great value and you’ll get honest/best recommendations

[Jason08]

Enrico at Rythmik recommended them to me when I spoke with him about possibly adding another (3rd) sub nearfield for more tactile response. Rythmik, like Ascend are a great value and you’ll get honest/best recommendations

I actually bought my Sierra speakers from Enrico. Great guy. He spent an afternoon auditioning the speakers and shooting the breeze with me. If I ever decide to buy a sub, I'll buy a Rythmik from him.

But, yes, I'm in an apartment and worried about the neighbors. It's a solid building with robust walls, though, so I can get away with more than most. That said: I find the Sierra 2's already have plenty of low-end. If the 2EX V2's can reach deeper, that would probably be all I'd need.

Unfortunately, after a few weeks of movies and music, I've been a little underwhelmed by the Sierra 2's. I don't know the lexicon, exactly, but they seem a bit thin and harsh at high and mid-ranges. Maybe it's because I've had old Polk Monitor 30's previously and I prefer a warmer sound rather than sweet. (I think that's the way to describe it.)

I hooked my old Polks along and a $160 RSL CG23M center to an entry-level Onkyo (150W) AVR in my parents' living room. I was enveloped and immersed in the sound and I didn't want to stop listening. I haven't had that experience with the Sierra 2's. On some music, and most TV, I'm fatigued from listening pretty quickly. On other music, it has incredible clarity and accuracy. But I still just don't relish the sound.

The S2's really shine with percussive sounds and the low-end. Hearing every pebble hit the ground after an explosion is remarkable. Guitar, piano, drums, and the like are clear and crisp. Bass is excellent. Baritone voices are sublime. But higher voices and wind and string instruments (violin, horns) can be simply grating. I'm having a hard time discerning if it's the source material -- or my room, but I haven't found anything that sounds good in these ranges.

I placed the speakers on Iso-Acoustics stands to add isolation, elevation, and tilt and that was a significant improvement.

But I've also ordered some RSL CG25's on a free trial to see if I just like their sound better.

It seems like the obvious path is upgrading both Sierra 2 bookshelves and the Horizon center (is there a Horizon upgrade kit?), but that's a significant additional expenditure. Whereas I could probably recoup the cost of Sierra 2's by selling, and go with the RSL's for $1180 and be done.

Anyway, kinda bummed and not sure what I'll end up doing.

[racrawford65]

If you read the summary on the Ascend site for the S2 EXv2, the upgrade makes the speaker warmer/fuller than the S2, along with improving the bass. One of these days, I plan on upgrading my S2's to the EXv2 but not in a hurry as using them for surrounds (and I'm mostly music).

Yes, there are at least two Horizon upgrade kits - the V2 (cross-over only, I'm fairly certain) and ELX (cross-over, two LX drivers, 1 EX driver).

I'm not sure why the S2's are fatiguing & sound bright in your system and/or room. As you mentioned, maybe it will take some more time to adjust to the sound difference from your previous Polks. Also, did you run room correction or are you using any of the Yamaha sound "modes"? Maybe that's impacting the sound negatively.

[Jason08]

If you read the summary on the Ascend site for the S2 EXv2, the upgrade makes the speaker warmer/fuller than the S2, along with improving the bass. One of these days, I plan on upgrading my S2's to the EXv2 but not in a hurry as using them for surrounds (and I'm mostly music).

Yes, there are at least two Horizon upgrade kits - the V2 (cross-over only, I'm fairly certain) and ELX (cross-over, two LX drivers, 1 EX driver).

I'm not sure why the S2's are fatiguing & sound bright in your system and/or room. As you mentioned, maybe it will take some more time to adjust to the sound difference from your previous Polks. Also, did you run room correction or are you using any of the Yamaha sound "modes"? Maybe that's impacting the sound negatively.

I reached out to Enrico and Dina at Ascend today. It sounds like my receiver is probably insufficient to get the most of these speakers.

I'll probably snag a Denon AVR-X2800H that's on sale at Adorama for $500. And I'll start saving up for upgrades to EXv2 / ELX.

Thanks again for your help!

[racrawford65]

You're welcome. If you get the Denon, post back on if that's resolved the issue.

[martinm0]

Unfortunately, after a few weeks of movies and music, I've been a little underwhelmed by the Sierra 2's. I don't know the lexicon, exactly, but they seem a bit thin and harsh at high and mid-ranges.

Hey Jason08. I had a similar experience with the Sierra Towers w/ RAAL (v1) many years ago where I found the RAAL to be too bright and on the cusp of fatiguing. I had the original Sierra-2 speakers as well, and at that time I kept the S2s and sold the Towers.

Just last month I bought the S2-EX V2 upgrade kit and installed into my first gen S2s. Immediately I found the sound thin and harsh, with very little depth and soundstage. It took me a while to put the pieces together that the S2-EX V2 is really now on par with the original RAAL Tower v1, but along with it came the same issues with Towers from several years ago.

I have been running the Marantz NR1608 for the last few years. Before that I had a Denon AVR-X4000. I even added an Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 stereo amp to ensure I had all the power I could need for any tower or 3-way speaker I pick up in the future.

Last week I grabbed a used NAD T778 Digital AVR and WOW did the speakers suddenly transform! The soundstage opened up, along with way better imaging and the harsh brightness has dialed way back.

I don't know if these Denon and Marantz mid-level AVRs just are that mediocre, or if these speakers just demand a little more, but I had no idea how much I had been missing with all of these Sierra speakers until last week. I feel like I made a huge mistake selling those Towers now since I'm back in it again and looking at the ELX line!

My advice (if you can swing it) - jump to something more high end for your AVR/processor. Maybe something in the Anthem realm (which is next on my list). I truly thought adding tons of power with an external amp would fix any flaws from my AVRs, but my experience feels similar to yours and I can at least assure you that the Sierras truly do sound wonderful and I believe you can achieve this with some electronics to drive them.

[racrawford65]

martinm0 - Anthem is an excellent choice. I've been using them for years (MRX510, MRX720, now AVM70). If you have the amps (and budget), consider either the AVM70 or AVM90. Otherwise, one of the MRXx40 that fits your needs (e.g. # of speakers). I sold the 510 awhile ago. Still using the 720 at our house in Rio and the 70 is here in the States.

ARC Genesis is really a very good RC program.

The WebUI on the newer models works great and makes set up / tweaking so much easier.

Sound is awesome for both music and movies, as is immersion for movies

[Jason08]

Thanks so much for your thoughts, martinm0.

I purchased an open box Denon X3800H from Adorama for $930. It was an improvement over the Yamaha TSR-700. However, I still feel like the sound is missing depth. Audyssey room correction helps but still lacking. I've considered adding an Emotiva BasX A3. I think my room is a big problem: it's an open-concept apartment with high ceilings and mostly hard surfaces.

I'm wondering if I should return the Denon X3800H and look for a used high-end receiver locally. I really have no idea what to look for, though. I'm only running a 3.1 system; future expansion possible to 5.2 at the most.

With the X3800H, I can upgrade to Dirac down the road.

EDIT:

Found these locally:
Anthem MRX720 $900 (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/641601228171931/)
NAD T748 $200 (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1532134010874074/)

[martinm0]

Thanks so much for your thoughts, martinm0.

I purchased an open box Denon X3800H from Adorama for $930. It was an improvement over the Yamaha TSR-700. However, I still feel like the sound is missing depth. Audyssey room correction helps but still lacking. I've considered adding an Emotiva BasX A3. I think my room is a big problem: it's an open-concept apartment with high ceilings and mostly hard surfaces.

I'm wondering if I should return the Denon X3800H and look for a used high-end receiver locally. I really have no idea what to look for, though. I'm only running a 3.1 system; future expansion possible to 5.2 at the most.

With the X3800H, I can upgrade to Dirac down the road.

EDIT:

Found these locally:
Anthem MRX720 $900 (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/641601228171931/)
NAD T748 $200 (https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1532134010874074/)

You are most welcome! My space might be similar to yours - a large open concept ranch, where the room is 30x20 but opens up into a kitchen and dining area, as well as some cutouts to hallways. Ceilings are high, and one wall is all glass sliders, though there is carpet.

Regarding the Denon you bought, I really wish I could give you an authoritative response that is a yay or nay on it, but on paper it has plenty of power and all the typical items you would ever need in your AVR. Keep in mind I even added the very powerful Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 stereo amp (300w/ch at 8 ohms), but the sounds signature from the receiver never changed. I also run a large subwoofer with the S2s crossed over at 80Hz, so in theory I had all the power I needed without the external amp (and even adding the amp did not change things dramatically).

I have not yet experienced the Anthem products, but with several models of Denon and one Marantz AVR, I feel like I would say if you can swing picking up the used Anthem, do it and see how it compares. I would think it would be better than the Denon you picked up, so while the Anthem is used and can't be returned, I expect it to be better overall for the speakers.

I hope you can find a solution that works for you. The speakers really great. I wish I had tested the S2s with the NAD before I did the upgrade to S2-EX v2 so I could give you a more like for like experience.

[racrawford65]

The MRX720 is a nice unit. I had one in my main system before moving to the AVM70. The 720 is now at my other house in Brazil.

ARC is a really good room correction program. That said, I didn't use ARC with the 720 for music. In my room / system, it seemed to dull music. Worked great for movies, though.

You may want to check out usaudiomart or other used equipment sites and see if you can find one of the newer Anthems (x40 series). The WebUi for the new units is awesome for set up and tweaking. They also have additional features for use with Genesis (distance, phase, etc.)

[martinm0]

Thanks! I actually spend quite a bit of time using HiFishark.com searching used gear across a variety of AV classifieds! The webUI is definitely something I look forward to, especially with NAD's limited app/remote options for this model.

Now I just need some time to actually sit and enjoy it all (and try and dial things in more). All my experiences have been mostly just watching basic TV with only being able to play a few songs since I got the unit last Friday. (I am giving a lot of praise without even scratching the surface yet!)

[muzz]

With any decent Sub, this should sound ridiculous.