Tonewinner pre/pro.

[billy p]

https://www.summithifi.com/products/at-300-16-channel-pre-pro-releasing-soon

I stumbled upon this for affordable pre-pro AV processor unit...up to 16ch, most...if not, all the bells and whistles...but I'm hesitant to pay for the luxury of 16ch of amplification...what do you guys think and what's the word on various audio circles.

[rvsixer]

In comparison to the competition....I'll start off with its not a true 16-channel processor, lacks room correction, etc.

Tonewinner adds more competitive features under the Emotiva label.

[curtis]

...lacks room correction, etc.

Well...it lists this:


Built-in auto room correction by Tone Winner

[curtis]

I stumbled upon this for affordable pre-pro AV processor unit...up to 16ch, most...if not, all the bells and whistles...but I'm hesitant to pay for the luxury of 16ch of amplification...what do you guys think and what's the word on various audio circles.
billy...I know Tonewinner makes some stuff for Emotiva, and you know I am not a fan.

I would put that $1700 into a receiver from one of the major brands, or look for a used processor.

[billy p]

billy...I know Tonewinner makes some stuff for Emotiva, and you know I am not a fan.

I would put that $1700 into a receiver from one of the major brands, or look for a used processor.

Yea...given todays standard most AV companies use proprietary REQ....hardware. I read somewhere they provide some of the parts for the newer Emotiva line...but I'm very suspect of them, given all the issues they had with previous units which you've alluded too.

I sold my current unit and looking at several closely priced options from Anthem(15% off spring sale), Denon and new Marantz *C* lineup.

The new X3800H will be Dirac compliant via SW update...albeit additional cost and from my past experiences both ARC and Audyssey xt32/app get very good results...but for some reason or another I've always wanted separates and the new class D amps offer tons of affordable options...gears are constantly spinning...oye!!

[racrawford65]

I echo Curtis' post...I'm definitely not a fan of Emotiva, particularly processors, based on my experience with the UMC-1 (it sounded good but was buggy as hell. After a year of firmware upgrades, still not nearly good enough. Emotiva gave up and I returned mine) and from what I've read about later processors.

There's a couple of MRX1120's on usaudiomart for around $2K. Newer models (MRX) is currently on sale

[curtis]

I lust after a new processor, but can't justify it. They are so expensive. If I could, Anthem is high on my list as I have been very happy with my AVM 60, as is the new Marantz, as well as other Dirac capable receivers/processors...seems to be some good options out there.

If someone wanted to make a donation, I would love a Trinnov unit. :)

[N Boros]

Sometimes going with something off the beaten path can be a good thing. I would say that Ascend speakers definitely fit that trend, where you get performance far exceeding what you get for the price from just about any other company. The same thing was true for Oppo Blu-ray players when they were still being made. The performance of the Oppo player was second to none, especially at the price point. In fact these players made it so that other "flagship" Blu-ray players seemed ridiculously priced and I think Oppo kind of killed off the high end Blu-Ray player sales even from excellent companies like Denon.

What's not to love about the Oppo players? I still have my Oppo BDP-83, which still works great. However, about 20 to 30% of the time when I would rent a Blu-ray disk from Netflix (when they still did that) and I would have playback issues on the Oppo player. I might need to fast forward through 5 to 10 minutes of the movie to get past a spot that would lock it up and it would just freeze there unless you power cycle the player. Very frustrating! I was less concerned about running into this issue with purchased blu-ray's because I could always just return it saying it didn't play. Though I think Best Buy now checks it in one or two of their blu-ray players and if the disk plays fine in there, they will not accept a return even if it doesn't play on your blu-ray player. Going with a name brand blu-ray player as an alternative you won't run into this issue much if at all, since the manufacturers make sure they work fine in those players, but aren't likely testing them in Oppo players. That is what I found in a Panasonic blu-ray player that I have. Oppo was great and probably did eventually sent out firmware updates to fix playback issues, but it ended up being a big inconvenience.

What does this have to do with the Tonewinner pre/pro? Pre-pros and receivers are very complicated, with all that is going on inside of them. With my Denon 3600H I have not had a single glitch with things not working correctly over the past 3 years. Everyone has heard about countless glitches in Emotiva products that sometimes get fixed after quite some time and sometimes not. I would imagine Tonewinner is a similarly sized smaller company, where there is a good chance you run into the same type of thing. I don't have patience for that, especially if one is paying extra money for a more premium product.

If you go off the beaten path with a passive loudspeaker, you will know within a few days or likely just a few minutes if everything is working or not. With a pre-pro or receiver, you might encounter a glitch outside of the warranty period and then you need to live with it. Maybe they are an excellent company and promptly fix any glitches, but being a smaller company it is going to take much longer than most of us have patience for when we just want to sit down at the end of the day and enjoy some music or a movie or tv show at the end of the day. I would suggest just heading over the accessories4less and look for a Denon or Marantz or Yamaha receiver that has the features you want at the price point you can afford and go with that. I think you will be much happier in the longrun.

[billy p]

I lust after a new processor, but can't justify it. They are so expensive. If I could, Anthem is high on my list as I have been very happy with my AVM 60, as is the new Marantz, as well as other Dirac capable receivers/processors...seems to be some good options out there.

If someone wanted to make a donation, I would love a Trinnov unit. :)

Ha...you'd require a lot of donations...lol.

OR...set up a go fund me page...;)

[billy p]

Sometimes going with something off the beaten path can be a good thing. I would say that Ascend speakers definitely fit that trend, where you get performance far exceeding what you get for the price from just about any other company. The same thing was true for Oppo Blu-ray players when they were still being made. The performance of the Oppo player was second to none, especially at the price point. In fact these players made it so that other "flagship" Blu-ray players seemed ridiculously priced and I think Oppo kind of killed off the high end Blu-Ray player sales even from excellent companies like Denon.

What's not to love about the Oppo players? I still have my Oppo BDP-83, which still works great. However, about 20 to 30% of the time when I would rent a Blu-ray disk from Netflix (when they still did that) and I would have playback issues on the Oppo player. I might need to fast forward through 5 to 10 minutes of the movie to get past a spot that would lock it up and it would just freeze there unless you power cycle the player. Very frustrating! I was less concerned about running into this issue with purchased blu-ray's because I could always just return it saying it didn't play. Though I think Best Buy now checks it in one or two of their blu-ray players and if the disk plays fine in there, they will not accept a return even if it doesn't play on your blu-ray player. Going with a name brand blu-ray player as an alternative you won't run into this issue much if at all, since the manufacturers make sure they work fine in those players, but aren't likely testing them in Oppo players. That is what I found in a Panasonic blu-ray player that I have. Oppo was great and probably did eventually sent out firmware updates to fix playback issues, but it ended up being a big inconvenience.

What does this have to do with the Tonewinner pre/pro? Pre-pros and receivers are very complicated, with all that is going on inside of them. With my Denon 3600H I have not had a single glitch with things not working correctly over the past 3 years. Everyone has heard about countless glitches in Emotiva products that sometimes get fixed after quite some time and sometimes not. I would imagine Tonewinner is a similarly sized smaller company, where there is a good chance you run into the same type of thing. I don't have patience for that, especially if one is paying extra money for a more premium product.

If you go off the beaten path with a passive loudspeaker, you will know within a few days or likely just a few minutes if everything is working or not. With a pre-pro or receiver, you might encounter a glitch outside of the warranty period and then you need to live with it. Maybe they are an excellent company and promptly fix any glitches, but being a smaller company it is going to take much longer than most of us have patience for when we just want to sit down at the end of the day and enjoy some music or a movie or tv show at the end of the day. I would suggest just heading over the accessories4less and look for a Denon or Marantz or Yamaha receiver that has the features you want at the price point you can afford and go with that. I think you will be much happier in the longrun.

I agree, with the Ascend and OPPO models. I have my trusty 103D(even owned the dv971 unit from long ago), thou I don't use it as much because of todays streaming services...but every now and again when I re-watch some of my BRD or 4K collection it's spectacular. As is often the case most folks use avrs or used market for good processors. Denon in particular design's & packs their higher end avrs to rival their separates which cost thousands more...I understand the esoteric market somewhat those folks wouldn't touch a moderately priced mid hifi solution...I reckon those boutique mfgs brands don't need to sell thousands of unit to turn a profit....after all...appearance, plus the name on the outside is what matters most to folks.

[rvsixer]

Well...it lists this:


Built-in auto room correction by Tone Winner

In the owners manual, its called something else, and with little/no explanation of what it does or how it does it.

So I am sure not really on any level remotely as sophisticated as as Audyssey, Dirac, etc. At least it does have some nice manual EQ.

[racrawford65]

I lust after a new processor, but can't justify it. They are so expensive. If I could, Anthem is high on my list as I have been very happy with my AVM 60, as is the new Marantz, as well as other Dirac capable receivers/processors...seems to be some good options out there.

If someone wanted to make a donation, I would love a Trinnov unit. :)

You'll really love the AVM70 or AVM90 (if you have the $$). I've been tempted to upgrade from the 70 to the 90 based on multiple comments on the AVS Owner's Forum and consolidate my equipment.

[curtis]

You'll really love the AVM70 or AVM90 (if you have the $$). I've been tempted to upgrade from the 70 to the 90 based on multiple comments on the AVS Owner's Forum and consolidate my equipment.
yeah...I know...you are a bad influence. :D


Speaking of Oppo, I still have my 205. People are still asking $3k for them on eBay. I rarely use it except for SACDs and multichannel files. I mainly listen music via Roon, but my current Roon path doesn't handle multichannel.

[billy p]

yeah...I know...you are a bad influence. :D


Speaking of Oppo, I still have my 205. People are still asking $3k for them on eBay. I rarely use it except for SACDs and multichannel files. I mainly listen music via Roon, but my current Roon path doesn't handle multichannel.

He most certainly is...I'm admiring his re location property in Rio...the location is beautiful...by all accounts.

[racrawford65]

I know. :o

Well, if I upgrade to the 90, my 70 would be for sale ;)

As to Oppo, I still have my 203 and 103D. I think the 203's are listed for around 1K. I only use it for 4K movies on occasion. I use the 103D for blu-ray/dvd movies and CDs, when I play either.

[billy p]

3 way trade proposal...I'll buy the amv 60 from Curtis...in turn Robert you sell him the 70 and get yourself the new AMV90 to go with those ELX upgrades...lol. Honestly thou...if I could buy thru the US market it would be great but the shipping + duties are enormous....at this current time and let's not even discuss exchange rate:(

[racrawford65]

Tempted on the 90, but no way at the moment. Too much money being spent on the work on the Rio property. Plus, the cows, chickens, ducks, geese, and peacocks eat too much (and my wife is adamant the cows get proper cow food and not just graze grass in the pastures). Those cows better start producing more milk so we can sell it and her dad make cheese, otherwise we'll have a nice barbecue (of course, all our welcome).

[curtis]

I'd be interested in that three-way transaction when/if it is possible.

I am also thinking about getting back into the OLED game...I really miss not having an OLED.

OLED is probably ahead of a processor

[racrawford65]

jeez, looks like the ball is in my court.

[billy p]

jeez, looks like the ball is in my court.

Not really...I had, spoken with Dave the other night and he suggested shipping across border right now has many disadvantages. This was moreso related to shipping my LRC back but oversea or another country is expensive...but I'm sure you can relate to that.

[billy p]

Well, I decided on buying the denon x3800h...it's future proof via firmware and subscription for dirac live...plus audyssey xt32...for time being...technically it's superior to the xt version ...we'll see how it goes. Amazon has a very easy 30 day return policy.

[racrawford65]

Congrats on the new AVR!

[billy p]

Thanks Robert,

The ability to future proof with dirac...swayed my decision vs. the 3700h.
My other options were the Anthem mrx 540 similarly priced here or Marantz Cinema hundreds more.

[MusicHead]

Well, I decided on buying the denon x3800h...it's future proof via firmware and subscription for dirac live...plus audyssey xt32...for time being...technically it's superior to the xt version ...we'll see how it goes. Amazon has a very easy 30 day return policy.

Congratulations, the 3800h is on my shortlist should I decide to upgrade. I hope yours was shipped and sold by Amazon (who, as far as I know, is a Denon authorized dealer). If it was shipped by Amazon but sold by a 3rd party, they may or may not be authorized dealers.

Crutchfield has a 60-day return policy, by the way.

[billy p]

Yea...both offer excellent CS, RA and trial period. Amazon offers equal payment options...I've used them in the past for larger transactions....in and around home.

BTW...my wife marches upstairs and says...did you just buy a (2.5k cdn) receiver...dang account is in her name.


Sometimes...it's better they don't know..
Perhaps Crutchfield was the better option ...:D

[MusicHead]

BTW...my wife marches upstairs and says...did you just buy a (2.5k cdn) receiver...dang account is in her name.


Oooops... We have separate Amazon accounts, linked so that we only pay one Prime fee, but we cannot see each others' orders. However, I am the one getting the email notifications about the credit card charges ;)

I have kind of potentially expensive hobbies (audio, photography and ham radio), she plays tennis, likes to sew and recently got a pretty expensive PFAFF sewing machine and of course she occasionally buys shoes, dresses and the like. However, we both grew up in families of modest means. Now that we enjoy good financial security we still are very careful about how we spend our money.

We both spend on our preferred "toys" every now and then and call it even :)

[N Boros]

Well, I decided on buying the denon x3800h...it's future proof via firmware and subscription for dirac live...plus audyssey xt32...for time being...technically it's superior to the xt version ...we'll see how it goes. Amazon has a very easy 30 day return policy.

Excellent choice. I think you’ll be very happy with it.

[billy p]

Thanks....just waiting for V2s now...before I re connect all my gear and run REQ.