New: Sierra-2EX V2!!!

[davef]

We are most pleased to announce the new V2 version of our Sierra-2EX!

Taking full advantage of the most advanced loudspeaker R&D available today, we have developed a new crossover topology to best integrate the RAAL true ribbon tweeter with our EX woofer.

From an objective standpoint, measurements are greatly improved, most specifically in overall directivity and estimated in-room response. In fact, the directivity measurement of the V2 is flat-out remarkable and horizontal dispersion, as indicated in the beamwidth measurement, is class-leading.

From a listening standpoint, the Sierra-2EX V2 sounds more spacious, with slightly warmer and more detailed mids and there is about ½ dB more midbass energy.

While this new crossover is more expensive, we are holding firm on pricing with Sierra-2EX V2 retailing for the same as the original Sierra-2EX at least through this year.

A full suite of Klippel NFS measurements for Sierra-2EX V2 are now published on our main website and customers can now order actual NFS measurements like we offer for the LX.

Please contact us if you would like to upgrade your Sierra-2EX to Sierra-2EX V2.

We continue to be fully committed to providing our customers with the best performing products utilizing the latest and most advanced technologies available today.

Enjoy!!!

[rifmon]

Wow Dave, Thanks! What a surprise to wake up to! I have the EX and have been considering the LX kit. Now I will be considering this upgrade. Possibly another Christmas upgrade!

A comment from an earlier post comparing the EX and LX stated;

"when the ES is better, it’s 20% better and when the LX is better, it’s 80% better."

I can only imagine that this crossover upgrade may change that percentage to; when the ES is better, it’s 40% better and when the LX is better, it’s 60% better. It may depend on the user’s listening habits..HT, Jazz, Classical, Rock etc..

Very exciting!

[theophile]

Dave,

Great news! Although with my new amp, an Orchard Audio Starkrimson Stereo Ultra (see HERE (https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/)), my 2EX has really opened up in the midrange/mid-bass regions, would be very interesting to hear what further improvements the new xover could make!!! :cool:

Ted

[racrawford65]

Nice review on the amp, Ted.

[SunByrne]

A comment from an earlier post comparing the EX and LX stated;

"when the ES is better, it’s 20% better and when the LX is better, it’s 80% better."


That might have been me—if it wasn't, it's certainly consistent with how I feel about the comparison.

I do think overall one of the things that makes the LX better is overall flatter FR—it doesn't have so much brightness baked in. If the new crossovers in the EX addresses this, well, that'd be something indeed.

I suspect the EX V2 still won't have the slam of the LX—there's only so much the EX woofer can do with that high crossover. Still, would be fun to check it out.

[rifmon]

Nice statement. I think it was quoted elsewhere too.

What we need now is a person who has both the EX and LX, then to upgrade their EX to the V2 and then do a comparison review! It will be fun and interesting!

[Blingleberry]

Thanks Dave - what do you think the cost of upgrading from 2EX to V2 would be? Is the update only a crossover replacement?

Are upgrades being planned to the towers?

[racrawford65]

As to the Towers, Dave had alluded earlier (I recall in the LX thread) that something was in the works and advised not to sell the Towers...

[Blingleberry]

Since I've been thinking about whether to upgrade from the S2EX to the Towers, you can see where I'm on the fence waiting to see what happens next ;-)

[davef]

Dave,

Great news! Although with my new amp, an Orchard Audio Starkrimson Stereo Ultra (see HERE (https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/)), my 2EX has really opened up in the midrange/mid-bass regions, would be very interesting to hear what further improvements the new xover could make!!! :cool:

Ted

More spacious sounding, a bit warmer with more detailed mids, and a slight touch of added midbass :)

[davef]

Thanks Dave - what do you think the cost of upgrading from 2EX to V2 would be? Is the update only a crossover replacement?

This would be a crossover change only. We are offering the Sierra-2EX V2 crossovers for $135 each + shipping. There is almost no profit at that price so we will likely have to raise prices at the start of 2023.

I will add this to our site soon to allow for easy purchases.

[davef]

Wow Dave, Thanks! What a surprise to wake up to! I have the EX and have been considering the LX kit. Now I will be considering this upgrade. Possibly another Christmas upgrade!

A comment from an earlier post comparing the EX and LX stated;

"when the ES is better, it’s 20% better and when the LX is better, it’s 80% better."

I can only imagine that this crossover upgrade may change that percentage to; when the ES is better, it’s 40% better and when the LX is better, it’s 60% better. It may depend on the user’s listening habits..HT, Jazz, Classical, Rock etc..

Very exciting!

It very much depends on listening habits and music genres. The S2EX V2 is the more detailed speaker and is best for acoustic music, jazz, most classical. The LX has way more "slam" and much deeper bass and with enough power, can play much louder without strain. The LX is better for rock, dynamic home theater and is the better choice for those who "listen to everything".

[davef]

Sierra-2EX to Sierra-2EX V2 upgrades now available for direct purchase.

Please see here: Sierra-2EX V2 (https://ascendacoustics.com/collections/upgrades/products/sierra-2ex-to-sierra-2ex-v2?variant=40434233278518)

[Billmac58]

Hi Dave,

Do you have any idea when the domestic cabinet will be back in stock? I'm very interested in the Sierra-2EX V2 but would want the domestic cabinet. I currently have Sierra-2s and would assume the Sierra-2EX V2 would be a big improvement. Thanks!

Take care, Bill

[Mag_Neato]

Hi Dave,

Do you have any idea when the domestic cabinet will be back in stock? I'm very interested in the Sierra-2EX V2 but would want the domestic cabinet. I currently have Sierra-2s and would assume the Sierra-2EX V2 would be a big improvement. Thanks!

Take care, Bill

I believe Dave's domestic cabinet builder fell victim to the current economic conditions and is no longer able to build them. Those who have the domestic cabinets have a high-value commodity!

[Billmac58]

I believe Dave's domestic cabinet builder fell victim to the current economic conditions and is no longer able to build them. Those who have the domestic cabinets have a high-value commodity!

Thank you Ed for your reply! That's a bummer. I had a chance to buy a used pair of Sierra-2EXs in satin black with the domestic cabinet for $1100 awhile back. Now I'm really regretting not buying them :-(!

[racrawford65]

Unless you still need the S2's, if they are in domestic cabinets, why not upgrade them?

[N Boros]

Sierra-2EX to Sierra-2EX V2 upgrades now available for direct purchase.

Please see here: Sierra-2EX V2 (https://ascendacoustics.com/collections/upgrades/products/sierra-2ex-to-sierra-2ex-v2?variant=40434233278518)

Will Sierra 2 to Sierra 2EX V2 kits be available?

[Mag_Neato]

Will Sierra 2 to Sierra 2EX V2 kits be available?

https://ascendacoustics.com/collections/upgrades/products/sierra-2-to-sierra-2ex-upgrade-kit?variant=40053180432438

[merrymaid520]

I’ve had the S2 EX v2s for a few weeks now. They replaced standard S2s. They are my living room surround speakers so a direct comparison was not in the cards nor did I have the time:). I did listen to quite a bit of multi channel high res music and they sound fantastic! I also tried some all channel stereo to see how they sound full range.

Overall, very impressed! They sound fuller and more spacious (room filling ) Than the S2s! For movies, the same applies. The sound effects seem to envelope more of the room both wider and taller which is helpful.

[N Boros]

https://ascendacoustics.com/collections/upgrades/products/sierra-2-to-sierra-2ex-upgrade-kit?variant=40053180432438

Thanks! Glad I patiently waited.

[SunByrne]

What we need now is a person who has both the EX and LX, then to upgrade their EX to the V2 and then do a comparison review! It will be fun and interesting!

I did a monster review of the EX vs. the LX:

http://byrneweb.com/sunburn/blog/2022/05/01/ascend-acoustics-sierra-lx-vs-sierra-2ex-comparison/

I will probably upgrade the EXs (because, really, there hasn't been a Sierra bookshelf upgrade I've missed yet, so why start now), but I don't know if I have another review like that in me for a while. It'd be next summer at the earliest.

[curtis]

I did a monster review of the EX vs. the LX:

http://byrneweb.com/sunburn/blog/2022/05/01/ascend-acoustics-sierra-lx-vs-sierra-2ex-comparison/

I will probably upgrade the EXs (because, really, there hasn't been a Sierra bookshelf upgrade I've missed yet, so why start now), but I don't know if I have another review like that in me for a while. It'd be next summer at the earliest.

It is your duty! :)

[rifmon]

I did a monster review of the EX vs. the LX:

http://byrneweb.com/sunburn/blog/2022/05/01/ascend-acoustics-sierra-lx-vs-sierra-2ex-comparison/

I will probably upgrade the EXs (because, really, there hasn't been a Sierra bookshelf upgrade I've missed yet, so why start now), but I don't know if I have another review like that in me for a while. It'd be next summer at the earliest.

That was a great review. An additional review for the v2 will be greatly appreciated if, or whenever you get to it..

[davef]

Hi Dave,

Do you have any idea when the domestic cabinet will be back in stock? I'm very interested in the Sierra-2EX V2 but would want the domestic cabinet. I currently have Sierra-2s and would assume the Sierra-2EX V2 would be a big improvement. Thanks!

Take care, Bill

Hey Bill - hope all is well!

Unfortunately, unless things take a drastic change for the better in this current economy - manufacturing speaker cabinets here in the US has now become next to impossible. This is due to several reasons.

Most importantly, costs - labor, lumber and paint costs are now 3-4 times what they were 18 months ago. We would have to charge nearly double the old prices for domestic cabinets to remain even somewhat profitable. ( no one is going to pay that )

Secondly, California environmental policies have gone a bit crazy - every paint / dye we used had to be reformulated to meet these new standards and, to be honest, the quality is simply horrible now.

Lastly, due to continuing supply chain issues and massive labor shortages, our quoted lead times went from 3-4 months to 1 year. Sadly, we can't operate with 1 year lead times - I am not sure any company could.

I do hope things change for the better, I would love to build our cabinets here again - we invested heavily in building cabinets here, it is shocking to me how in the course of about a year - everything changed. In my near 40-years in this industry, I have never experienced anything like this before.

[racrawford65]

Yeah, it seems to be the State of the Union here (cost increases, labor shortages, etc.). I think Europe is in even worse shape - almost time to buy euros (down around 10% and almost on par at 1.03 to 1) and/or British pounds (similarly, down around 30% at 1.09 to 1) as both are beaten up pretty heavily versus the dollar. Brazilian reals are even a better bargain (5.1 vs typical 2 or 2.5 to 1) - so much that we bought some land in Brazil as a currency play.

[natetg57]

It very much depends on listening habits and music genres. The S2EX V2 is the more detailed speaker and is best for acoustic music, jazz, most classical. The LX has way more "slam" and much deeper bass and with enough power, can play much louder without strain. The LX is better for rock, dynamic home theater and is the better choice for those who "listen to everything".

I currently have S2EX up front and Luna's as surrounds and am considering either V2 or LX. I listen to everything from classical to Porcupine Tree. I can only use my Denon X4500H to power all five speakers. Would that be enough power at 10 feet away to experience the benefits of the LX? I only listen at moderate to loud volumes, nothing crazy. Whereas before it seemed almost everyone preferred the LX, does the V2 close the gap some?

[Blingleberry]

Is there any benefit to using the 2EX cross over on an S2 and it's original woofer?

If I upgrade to V2, I can give the old crossovers to my brother, who I gave a pair of original S2's to.

Thx

[N Boros]

More spacious sounding, a bit warmer with more detailed mids, and a slight touch of added midbass :)

I have a pair of Sierra 2's and I am trying to decide between an LX upgrade kit or a 2 EX V2 upgrade kit. I love the Sierra 2's, since they allow me to enjoy music and home theater at healthy volumes without producing listening fatigue. With my previous pair of speakers my ears would be ringing the rest of the day if I simply watched a movie at -30dB for 2 hours. Now with the Sierra 2's I can do movie marathons at -20dB to -15dB without any such listening fatigue! For my listening habits it is 95% home theater and 5% blu-ray concert videos. Would you suggest sticking with the ribbon tweeter and upgrading to the 2 EX V2? Or will the LX also be fine as far as not giving me listening fatigue? I'm not sure what is wrong with my ears, but the Sierra 2's have seemed to fix the problem and I don't want to upgrade and end up with listening fatigue all the time.

[SunByrne]

It is your duty! :)

I'm gonna need a few more hours in the day for a review at that level to be viable any time in the near future... :(

[SunByrne]

Or will the LX also be fine as far as not giving me listening fatigue?

Only you know for sure how your ears will respond, so my experience may not match yours. For me, the LX domes are the first metal domes I've ever heard that didn't give me at least some level of listening fatigue. I have some PSBs with aluminum domes that do quite well, but even with those I notice a little ringing if I listen too loud for too long. I listened long and loud to the LXs as part of that review before I made them my main daily speakers and so far all is well.

Personally, for HT I definitely think the LXs are the better speaker than the EX V1, but I haven't heard the V2 yet.

[Blingleberry]

I have a pair of Sierra 2's and I am trying to decide between an LX upgrade kit or a 2 EX V2 upgrade kit.

I thought LX's were a totally different series with different cabinets but just realized that's wrong and there are two choices to upgrade an S2.

Probably this is a Dave question but why would someone upgrade a S2 or S2EX to an LX? What's the criteria for deciding to go from an S2EX to an LX instead of a V2?

I saw your answer re Rock then LX vs Jazz&classical then V2, but honestly speaking, that's extremely subjective. If most of my music is rock&jazz&classical&electronic what then?

I suppose for marketing purposes choices are good, but to me if one sounds better and is measurably better, then the other is obsolete.

FWIW, I'll try the V2 upgrade because a) I'm already invested in the S2EX and b) I'm somewhat skeptical. Also, if the V2 crossovers are of value to an original S2, then I can give the old crossovers to my brother.

Thx :-)

[rifmon]

After considering either a V2 crossover upgrade or the LX change for my Sierra 2 EX, I'm beginning to realize that these new versions present a different experience. Dave's statement : "More spacious sounding, a bit warmer with more detailed mids, and a slight touch of added midbass"

Its not really a case of which is better but that they have different strengths.. The LX has more bass and slam and room filling vertical response while the EX V2 presents a spacious warm sound with more detailed and added midbass.

Choices are good!

We're all waiting to hear first-hand impressions from people's living rooms!

[natetg57]

I'm gonna need a few more hours in the day for a review at that level to be viable any time in the near future... :(

I think we'd be happy with a few thoughts about the differences with the EX-V2s when you get them. Thanks for what you've already done

[N Boros]

Only you know for sure how your ears will respond, so my experience may not match yours. For me, the LX domes are the first metal domes I've ever heard that didn't give me at least some level of listening fatigue. I have some PSBs with aluminum domes that do quite well, but even with those I notice a little ringing if I listen too loud for too long. I listened long and loud to the LXs as part of that review before I made them my main daily speakers and so far all is well.

Personally, for HT I definitely think the LXs are the better speaker than the EX V1, but I haven't heard the V2 yet.

My speakers prior to having Sierra 2s were Axiom Audio M22s. It was unpleasant listening at -30dB and I ended up the last couple of years using closed captions and doing only -35 to -40dB. Then I sold them along with the VP150 and QS8 surrounds, after realizing that having speakers I can’t actually listen to is a waste. Fortunately I was able to sell them for just about enough to cover the cost of the Sierra 2s. I couldn’t be happier with listening fatigue being gone mostly.

I have CMT 340s, and HTM 200 surrounds in a different room and they are not as easy on my ears as the Sierra 2s. Nowhere near as bad as the Axiom speakers, but I need to be a little more cautious with the volume than the Sierra 2s. -30 dB is fine with the SE series speakers for much of the day. With Sierra 2s I can do -20dB movie marathons and things are fine.

[curtis]

I thought LX's were a totally different series with different cabinets but just realized that's wrong and there are two choices to upgrade an S2.

Probably this is a Dave question but why would someone upgrade a S2 or S2EX to an LX? What's the criteria for deciding to go from an S2EX to an LX instead of a V2?

I saw your answer re Rock then LX vs Jazz&classical then V2, but honestly speaking, that's extremely subjective. If most of my music is rock&jazz&classical&electronic what then?

I suppose for marketing purposes choices are good, but to me if one sounds better and is measurably better, then the other is obsolete.

FWIW, I'll try the V2 upgrade because a) I'm already invested in the S2EX and b) I'm somewhat skeptical. Also, if the V2 crossovers are of value to an original S2, then I can give the old crossovers to my brother.

Thx :-)
Per Dave earlier in this thread:
“ It very much depends on listening habits and music genres. The S2EX V2 is the more detailed speaker and is best for acoustic music, jazz, most classical. The LX has way more "slam" and much deeper bass and with enough power, can play much louder without strain. The LX is better for rock, dynamic home theater and is the better choice for those who "listen to everything".”

[Robert]

The V2 crossovers for my Sierra 2EX pair that I use for surrounds arrived Wednesday. I hope to be able to install them this weekend. If this V2 upgrade is as good as the Luna V2 upgrade, it will be worth it. The Sierra 2 EXs measured well before, so my guess is the difference won't be as "drastic" as I noticed with the Lunas. The Lunas were noticeably warmer, had better/smoother horizontal dispersion, and were significantly cleaner than the pre-V2 version when I use them as mains in a bedroom stereo setup.

My initial expectation would be for those that really like their Sierra 2 EX speakers, this has a lower cost of admission than the LX upgrade. I think this would help add even more polish to the already great performance of the EX series.

[sliang]

I use my 2EX with a SVS SB2000 Pro sub crossed over at 80 Hz. I listen to rock, some jazz and pop, and classical. I also use it for movies/video in a 2.1 configuration. Will I see a benefit with the V2 upgrade?

[Blingleberry]

Per Dave earlier in this thread:
“... The LX is better for rock, dynamic home theater and is the better choice for those who "listen to everything".”

Thx Curtis. I guess I'm still going to stick with the S2EX upgrade path because I've already spent the ~$800 to upgrade them to S2EX so another $250 I can live with. I'm more interested in seeing what upgrades are proposed for the towers as I've always had a little envy for them.

My taste for bass might be slightly different than most. First I live in an apartment but also I've played drums for 45 years and have had enough bass for 10 lifetimes! Maybe I developed PTSD from my wife by association but when I hear giant explosions in movies I always have to turn that crap down. lol

I even had a lovely rythmic sub that I kept turning down until I realized I was barely even using it so I sold it. Esp after upgrading from S2 to S2EX, which gave me enough bass for my tastes.

Anyhow, the V2 upgrade's been ordered and we'll see how it goes.

[curtis]

Thx Curtis. I guess I'm still going to stick with the S2EX upgrade path because I've already spent the ~$800 to upgrade them to S2EX so another $250 I can live with. I'm more interested in seeing what upgrades are proposed for the towers as I've always had a little envy for them.

My taste for bass might be slightly different than most. First I live in an apartment but also I've played drums for 45 years and have had enough bass for 10 lifetimes! Maybe I developed PTSD from my wife by association but when I hear giant explosions in movies I always have to turn that crap down. lol

I even had a lovely rythmic sub that I kept turning down until I realized I was barely even using it so I sold it. Esp after upgrading from S2 to S2EX, which gave me enough bass for my tastes.

Anyhow, the V2 upgrade's been ordered and we'll see how it goes.
I think it’s a no lose situation.
Enjoy!

[curtis]

Is there any benefit to using the 2EX cross over on an S2 and it's original woofer?

If I upgrade to V2, I can give the old crossovers to my brother, who I gave a pair of original S2's to.

Thx
The mid-woofer is also different.

[curtis]

I use my 2EX with a SVS SB2000 Pro sub crossed over at 80 Hz. I listen to rock, some jazz and pop, and classical. I also use it for movies/video in a 2.1 configuration. Will I see a benefit with the V2 upgrade?
I think so, but with your listening preferences you would benefit more with the LX upgrade.

[Blingleberry]

That's what I'm hoping!

[curtis]

That's what I'm hoping!
Oh, so he will buy the woofers and you give him the crossovers.

[davef]

I use my 2EX with a SVS SB2000 Pro sub crossed over at 80 Hz. I listen to rock, some jazz and pop, and classical. I also use it for movies/video in a 2.1 configuration. Will I see a benefit with the V2 upgrade?

The most audible difference between V1 and V2 is that V2 has more linear "smoother" horizontal dispersion. It isn't "wider" - just more linear at off-axis angles. This makes the speaker sound more spacious in most rooms. That and the V2 is a bit warmer with just a small bit more midbass compared to V1. It doesn't matter if using with or without a subwoofer, the differences are not in that frequency range.

[davef]

I thought LX's were a totally different series with different cabinets but just realized that's wrong and there are two choices to upgrade an S2.

Probably this is a Dave question but why would someone upgrade a S2 or S2EX to an LX? What's the criteria for deciding to go from an S2EX to an LX instead of a V2?

Same reason why someone would go from say a Lamborghini Huracan to a BMW M8... Different use. The LX sounds like a large tower speaker when fed enough power, it has great detail and is very spacious, with shocking dynamics. However, it doesn't quite reach the levels of detail or intimacy that Sierra-2EX V1/V2 can deliver with certain types of music.


FWIW, I'll try the V2 upgrade because a) I'm already invested in the S2EX and b) I'm somewhat skeptical. Also, if the V2 crossovers are of value to an original S2, then I can give the old crossovers to my brother.

EX crossovers are designed to match with our EX woofers. If your brother has Sierra-2's (not Sierra-2EX), it is best to stick with the original Sierra-2 crossover - which uses a very different woofer.

[davef]

Or will the LX also be fine as far as not giving me listening fatigue? I'm not sure what is wrong with my ears, but the Sierra 2's have seemed to fix the problem and I don't want to upgrade and end up with listening fatigue all the time.

LX will definitely NOT cause you any listening fatigue. While the Titan dome is a metal dome tweeter, it is an Aluminum / Magnesium alloy. The addition of Magnesium, which is extremely stiff and light, pushes the breakup modes (ringing) to nearly 30kHz, well out of the range of human hearing. This characteristic is what makes Beryllium tweeters so popular (a true Be dome pushes the resonance mode to about 35kHz).

Combining that characteristic with its extremely wide dispersion - this tweeter sounds more like a RAAL ribbon than even other brand ribbon tweeters. If you don't experience listening fatigue with your Sierra-2, you definitely won't with LX :)

[davef]

I currently have S2EX up front and Luna's as surrounds and am considering either V2 or LX. I listen to everything from classical to Porcupine Tree. I can only use my Denon X4500H to power all five speakers. Would that be enough power at 10 feet away to experience the benefits of the LX? I only listen at moderate to loud volumes, nothing crazy. Whereas before it seemed almost everyone preferred the LX, does the V2 close the gap some?

Absolutely enough power for LX or Sierra-2EX V2 :)

[RMW]

Wow, I’m happy I decided to swing by and see if anything was new on the forum. I was about to purchase LX upgrade kits for my EX V1s, but now think I’ll just upgrade them to EX V2s. I already have a pair of LXs, and variety is the spice of life, right?

[N Boros]

LX will definitely NOT cause you any listening fatigue. While the Titan dome is a metal dome tweeter, it is an Aluminum / Magnesium alloy. The addition of Magnesium, which is extremely stiff and light, pushes the breakup modes (ringing) to nearly 30kHz, well out of the range of human hearing. This characteristic is what makes Beryllium tweeters so popular (a true Be dome pushes the resonance mode to about 35kHz).

Combining that characteristic with its extremely wide dispersion - this tweeter sounds more like a RAAL ribbon than even other brand ribbon tweeters. If you don't experience listening fatigue with your Sierra-2, you definitely won't with LX :)

This was not the answer I was expecting. Now I have a more difficult decision. :) Following your suggestions though, since I use them mostly for home theater and rock music I think the LXs might be the best for me. Thank you.

[natetg57]

Absolutely enough power for LX or Sierra-2EX V2 :)

Thanks Dave. Right now I'm leaning towards three LX upgrade kits but I wondered, are there any situations where a 2EX V2 center would be recommended along with LX left and rights? 2410

[curtis]

Thanks Dave. Right now I'm leaning towards three LX upgrade kits but I wondered, are there any situations where a 2EX V2 center would be recommended along with LX left and rights?

With Dave's post:


It very much depends on listening habits and music genres. The S2EX V2 is the more detailed speaker and is best for acoustic music, jazz, most classical. The LX has way more "slam" and much deeper bass and with enough power, can play much louder without strain. The LX is better for rock, dynamic home theater and is the better choice for those who "listen to everything".

For the center channel, I would think it if you played multichannel acoustic, jazz, and classical music, then S2EXv2 center would the better choice.

[Robert]

I finished installing the Sierra 2 EX V2 upgrade yesterday. The box and crossovers were well packaged. The V2 NFS optimized labels were missing, but I'll reach out to Dina to get the labels. Since I previously worked on the Luna V2 upgrade, it was actually a much easier process than the Lunas as the cabinet is larger.

Overall, I'd say the Sierra 2 EX V2 is definitely a bit warmer and there was a little bit more of a mid-bass presence. I never considered the Sierra 2 EX overly bright....lively, but not harsh. For my comparison, I switched out my Luna V2 pair for the Sierra 2 EXs, & then the EX V2s for a listening session using a Sonos Amp. The Sierra 2 EX V2 upgrade was subtle, but worth the price of the upgrade. All-in-all, the upgrade took about 1.5hrs on the first speaker and then an hour to perform on the 2nd speaker. It was a straightforward process.

However, for those that prefer to rock out and go loud, the comparisons that people have made between the LX & EX still stand, even with the new EX V2. If you love your existing pair of Sierra 2 EX speakers, the V2 upgrade will make you love them a little bit more. Overall, I'm happy and am looking forward to seeing what sort of upgrades are next.

A suggestion for Dave:

For all speaker upgrades listed on the website, add a download link for the instructions. I used the LX upgrade instructions as an initial reference point. I ordered an adjustable magnetic 8-in-1 Klein Tools stubby screwdriver. It was the perfect tool for the job as I could adjust the height to work around adjacent components when attaching the crossover to the cabinet. Having the instructions available ahead of time is helpful for planning.

[rifmon]

Thanks Robert. Were the EX v2 in their surround locations or were you able to place them as if they were the main speakers? I'm assuming you were feeding them as large mains vs their normal surround signals from your receiver. Room Interactions and speaker placements will have an impact on incremental differences and improvements.

I'm also interested in the directivity and if they give a more spacial feel.

[Blingleberry]

EX crossovers are designed to match with our EX woofers. If your brother has Sierra-2's (not Sierra-2EX), it is best to stick with the original Sierra-2 crossover - which uses a very different woofer.

That's the case, he has original S2s. Do you sell just the woofers only? Are they available elsewhere?

Thx!

[Robert]

Thanks Robert. Were the EX v2 in their surround locations or were you able to place them as if they were the main speakers? I'm assuming you were feeding them as large mains vs their normal surround signals from your receiver. Room Interactions and speaker placements will have an impact on incremental differences and improvements.

I'm also interested in the directivity and if they give a more spacial feel.

Correct - when installed on my Sonos Amp, they see the full range with no EQ. I actually did both, installed as surrounds on my main home theater, and also as mains on my Sonos bedroom setup. Times like this make me wish that I could try a pair of the original Sierra 2 EXs with the EX V2s and perform a quick "blind" comparison. I'll save that for the more "die hard" speaker fans out there. :)

From a horizontal dispersion standpoint, they performed well when I was moving around the room. The main takeaway that I can honestly say is the general performance was a tad "warmer" with a little more "punch". It was more subtle than what I experienced with the Luna to the Luna V2 upgrade. The Sierra 2 EX already measured well before, the V2 has been optimized with Dave's NFS research. They should sound even more transparent and true to the source material.

[davef]

That's the case, he has original S2s. Do you sell just the woofers only? Are they available elsewhere?

Thx!

The EX woofers are custom made and we own the both the design and tooling. They better not be available anywhere else ;)

You can purchase the EX woofers from us but please note, they are quite expensive. Give us a call and speak with Dina.

Thanks!

[davef]

A suggestion for Dave:

For all speaker upgrades listed on the website, add a download link for the instructions. I used the LX upgrade instructions as an initial reference point. I ordered an adjustable magnetic 8-in-1 Klein Tools stubby screwdriver. It was the perfect tool for the job as I could adjust the height to work around adjacent components when attaching the crossover to the cabinet. Having the instructions available ahead of time is helpful for planning.

Hi Robert,

My sincere apologies. I believe yours were the very first V2 crossovers shipped so things on Dina's end were a bit confusing. All V2 crossovers have been shipping with instructions and V2 labels. Yes, please reach out to Dina so we can send you the V2 labels.

That's funny about the Klein Tools stubby scredwdriver, that is what we use in the shop, ours is the ratcheting model as it makes it even easier.

Here is a link to it:

https://www.amazon.com/Ratcheting-Screwdriver-Klein-Tools-32594/dp/B01I2KTKR8/

[Robert]

Hi Robert,

My sincere apologies. I believe yours were the very first V2 crossovers shipped so things on Dina's end were a bit confusing. All V2 crossovers have been shipping with instructions and V2 labels. Yes, please reach out to Dina so we can send you the V2 labels.

That's funny about the Klein Tools stubby scredwdriver, that is what we use in the shop, ours is the ratcheting model as it makes it even easier.

Here is a link to it:

https://www.amazon.com/Ratcheting-Screwdriver-Klein-Tools-32594/dp/B01I2KTKR8/

No problem, I reached out to Dina and she has it covered. I'm looking forward to adding the additional "flair" to the cabinet! :)

I use the bigger brother ratchet screwdriver from Klein Tools. Great stuff. I'm now all set for any future Ascend upgrades!

[davef]

Thanks Dave. Right now I'm leaning towards three LX upgrade kits but I wondered, are there any situations where a 2EX V2 center would be recommended along with LX left and rights? 2410

If you closely examine the measurements, the Sierra-2EX center has slightly wider dispersion along with higher efficiency. Honestly, you can't go wrong with either of them in your room and they both match up well with Sierra-LX left/right.

[goldark]

I just upgraded the Sierra 2 EX to the V2 version. The improvements are apparent, not huge, but well worth the cost of $135 per speaker. It's more linear with better in-room response and off-axis behavior. Subjectively, it seems warmer with more spaciousness than the EX, which was already a fine speaker, itself. Having an NFS during the speaker's developmental phase is a game changer for Ascend. Well done.

[davef]

I just upgraded the Sierra 2 EX to the V2 version. The improvements are apparent, not huge, but well worth the cost of $135 per speaker. It's more linear with better in-room response and off-axis behavior. Subjectively, it seems warmer with more spaciousness than the EX, which was already a fine speaker, itself. Having an NFS during the speaker's developmental phase is a game changer for Ascend. Well done.


Cool... Your subjective impressions mirror my own. Thanks for posting!

[jimb]

I've now done my V2 conversions on a pair of S2EX and a pair of Lunas. Due to the circumstances, I can't add anything significant to what has been said about the audio results, other than that the S2EXV2 do seem a tad warmer.

My question is what to do with the replaced XOs!

[uniquepicture]

How difficult is it to do one of these upgrades to the 2EX? I’ve never assembled or swapped out parts on a speaker before.

[natetg57]

How difficult is it to do one of these upgrades to the 2EX? I’ve never assembled or swapped out parts on a speaker before.

If you can handle a screwdriver and take your time, than it's not difficult at all. Here is a post with detailed instructions and links to videos http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5545-Sierra-2-Upgrade-instructions-with-video!

[mjpearce023]

My front 3 are 2ex. I’m curious if it would be worth to upgrade all 3 speakers or if I should just do the front L/R. Seems like it would mostly just benefit music or should I do all 3 for a seamless soundstage?

[33na3rd]

I received the V2 crossovers Monday, and promptly installed them. It went rather smoothly after reading the included instructions and watching the videos. I would recommend taking your time, and using a Phillips screw driver that fits the screws securely. Dave has recommended this one which works great, especially when working inside the cabinet.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I2KTKR8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I also used a garden knelling pad that has a carrying handle cut out that the speaker binding posts fit into rather well, and protected the speaker while working on it.

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/tools/workwear-and-safety-gear/knee-pads/7005751

Swapping out the crossovers gave me an appreciation of how well built these speakers are. I had seen the pictures of the internals before, but seeing them with my own eyes and holding the components in my hands really impressed me.

I've only a few hours with the new crossover, but I'm already impressed. The new crossovers make the 2EX sound more refined with greater definition. The RAAL and the woofer seem even better integrated than before, the whole presentation more coherent.

Strings seem similar as before, but piano sound has improved greatly. Well recorded vocals are scary good now. Vocals were good before, but now they float in space between the speakers in a manner that reminds me of my old Virgo 2's which were very good at this. Besides the greater definition, tonal balance seems more accurate/pleasing.

I do not find this upgrade subtle at all. I think that it elevates the 2EX from a very good speaker to an excellent speaker.

I'll post an update after the new crossovers have had time to to settle in, but I can tell you already that this upgrade is well worth it.

Thanks for your hard work, Dave! We're all reaping the benefits!

[rifmon]

I'd say that's one heck of a first post!

Thanks for a very well thought out and informative review. I find it very helpful as I already did an upgrade from the Sierra 2 to the Sierra 2 EX. While it's hard for me to buy kits for the LX version, the EXV2 upgrade is incredibly affordable and gives these speakers an upgrade of refinement.

Thanks again!

Edit haha. I see that was your 2nd post. Need better glasses

[33na3rd]

I'd say that's one heck of a first post!

Thanks for a very well thought out and informative review. I find it very helpful as I already did an upgrade from the Sierra 2 to the Sierra 2 EX. While it's hard for me to buy kits for the LX version, the EXV2 upgrade is incredibly affordable and gives these speakers an upgrade of refinement.

Thanks again!

You're welcome!

I had really meant to post long ago, but the new V2 crossovers forced me into action!

[Robert]

You're welcome!

I had really meant to post long ago, but the new V2 crossovers forced me into action!

Great review! Really happy you are enjoying them. Upgrading the Lunas to the v2 was probably the biggest change I noticed from all the Ascend speakers I own that have the V2 upgrades. I always enjoyed the Sierra 2 EXs. The V2s definitely sound better than before, but less noticeable for me. Still worth the price. Glad to read other experiences.

I've been playing some various music from The SIDH on mine when testing...Just sound great on the Luna V2s and the Sierra 2 EX V2s. Throw in a sub or two and you've got a techno bagpipe party. :)

[33na3rd]

Great review! Really happy you are enjoying them. Upgrading the Lunas to the v2 was probably the biggest change I noticed from all the Ascend speakers I own that have the V2 upgrades. I always enjoyed the Sierra 2 EXs. The V2s definitely sound better than before, but less noticeable for me. Still worth the price. Glad to read other experiences.

I've been playing some various music from The SIDH on mine when testing...Just sound great on the Luna V2s and the Sierra 2 EX V2s. Throw in a sub or two and you've got a techno bagpipe party. :)

Hi Robert,

I just spent part of the morning checking out The SIDH. Wow, they're great! That's one of the best things about audio forums, discovering new music. Thanks for mentioning them!

Come for the equipment discussions, stay for the new music recommendations!

[theophile]

Welcome to the AA forum!

Great write-up, Jeff. Thanks for your comments and observations. I'm also considering the V2 upgrade! :cool:

Ted

[33na3rd]

Thanks Ted!

[curtis]

My front 3 are 2ex. I’m curious if it would be worth to upgrade all 3 speakers or if I should just do the front L/R. Seems like it would mostly just benefit music or should I do all 3 for a seamless soundstage?
all three to make it as seamless as possible...and music comes through the center channel too in movies.

[mjpearce023]

all three to make it as seamless as possible...and music comes through the center channel too in movies.

Yeah that’s the way I’m leaning right now. It’s just hard for me to imagine the 2ex getting much better, it’s already such an amazing speaker. I said the same thing though before I upgraded my 2s to the 2ex and I was wrong there.

[curtis]

Yeah that’s the way I’m leaning right now. It’s just hard for me to imagine the 2ex getting much better, it’s already such an amazing speaker. I said the same thing though before I upgraded my 2s to the 2ex and I was wrong there.
The Klippel NFS gives Dave more information to work with, and he has the know how to use that information when designing/engineering a speaker.

[davef]

Yeah that’s the way I’m leaning right now. It’s just hard for me to imagine the 2ex getting much better, it’s already such an amazing speaker. I said the same thing though before I upgraded my 2s to the 2ex and I was wrong there.

I agree with Curtis, if you plan on upgrading to V2, it would be best to do all 3 speakers. The V2 has better directivity, and that is very important for the center.

[davef]

I've been playing some various music from The SIDH on mine when testing...Just sound great on the Luna V2s and the Sierra 2 EX V2s. Throw in a sub or two and you've got a techno bagpipe party. :)

Thanks for this recommendation - I too am enjoying The SIDH! Please recommend them in our music thread - they are terrific :)

[davef]

I received the V2 crossovers Monday, and promptly installed them. It went rather smoothly after reading the included instructions and watching the videos. I would recommend taking your time, and using a Phillips screw driver that fits the screws securely. Dave has recommended this one which works great, especially when working inside the cabinet.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01I2KTKR8?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I also used a garden knelling pad that has a carrying handle cut out that the speaker binding posts fit into rather well, and protected the speaker while working on it.

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/tools/workwear-and-safety-gear/knee-pads/7005751

Swapping out the crossovers gave me an appreciation of how well built these speakers are. I had seen the pictures of the internals before, but seeing them with my own eyes and holding the components in my hands really impressed me.

I've only a few hours with the new crossover, but I'm already impressed. The new crossovers make the 2EX sound more refined with greater definition. The RAAL and the woofer seem even better integrated than before, the whole presentation more coherent.

Strings seem similar as before, but piano sound has improved greatly. Well recorded vocals are scary good now. Vocals were good before, but now they float in space between the speakers in a manner that reminds me of my old Virgo 2's which were very good at this. Besides the greater definition, tonal balance seems more accurate/pleasing.

I do not find this upgrade subtle at all. I think that it elevates the 2EX from a very good speaker to an excellent speaker.

I'll post an update after the new crossovers have had time to to settle in, but I can tell you already that this upgrade is well worth it.

Thanks for your hard work, Dave! We're all reaping the benefits!

Happy to read this! Thanks for your feedback and it is my pleasure!!!

[rcw001]

Hi All,

Coming out of lurker mode to comment on the v2 upgrade kits, just in case it's helpful to anyone trying to decide if they should go for it...

...The v2 kits for my two Sierra-2EX fronts arrived about 2 weeks ago. It took me about 20mins each speaker to install and I had no issues at all, other than having to fiddle with the gasket under the woofers to make sure it was properly re-aligned with screw holes.

My 2EXs are 10ft apart and 10ft from MLP and spend most of their service as fronts for HT (along with a Luna Duo v2 center, a couple of SVS rears and a Rythmik L12 sub), but the sound quality of 2 channel music is most important to me, so it is with music that I have done my critical comparison listening over the last couple of weeks.
I was not able to do any A/B testing, but I did not find the change in sound to be subtle, at all. I was actually surprised how much difference I noticed after the upgrade.
Although I don't use any room correction for music listening, oddly, the new measurements I took with ARC on my Anthem AVR don't look very different from v1... There is about +2dB at ~45Hz, which may or may not reconcile with what I'm actually hearing: more mid-bass and a weightier punch.
Overall, I would describe the new sound as richer and warmer. TBH, it took me a couple of days to get used to it. Initially I wondered if the u/g had taken SQ backwards, but once I'd confirmed that I could not detect any loss of detail, I became more confident in what I was hearing.

I feel that the v2 crossovers have tapped more of the potential of the SEAS woofer, or somehow allow the woofer more influence in the overall sound. Regardless, after 2 weeks I am genuinely delighted with the v2 upgrade, mainly because I am now rarely tempted to bring in the sub when I listen to music. The 2EX v2 delivers enough bass - with authority - to enable me to keep the signal path pure analog from my Denafrips DAC into my amp. I.e. No need to do any DSP / crossover in the Anthem for 2.1.

So for me, now being able to listen to multiple genres of music in pure 2-channel stereo is the biggest value I've gained with the upgrade.
One additional benefit I've noticed is more clarity way off axis (very noticeable) and potentially a slightly more spacious presentation... maybe. That one is tough to say for sure without doing A/B.

Anywho, that has been my very positive experience and I have zero regrets. Hope it's useful to someone.

Rob

[jimb]

I've now done my V2 conversions on a pair of S2EX and a pair of Lunas. Due to the circumstances, I can't add anything significant to what has been said about the audio results, other than that the S2EXV2 do seem a tad warmer.

My question is what to do with the replaced XOs!

Bump on wondering what is possible to do with the original S2EX crossovers? It seems a waste to bin them. :eek:

[rifmon]

I'm wondering if there'd be a practical use for them. Unless there's a v1 owner who wants to stay with v1 and would also want a replacement unit.

I might make interesting audio style book-ends out of mine.

[rifmon]

Thanks Rob. Your review helps to solidify my decision to upgrade my V1's.

[jimb]

I'm wondering if there'd be a practical use for them. Unless there's a v1 owner who wants to stay with v1 and would also want a replacement unit.

I might make interesting audio style book-ends out of mine.

Even just for the parts.

[davef]

I think I have posted this before, but we are happy to take back the V1 crossovers if customers want to ship them back to us. We don't recycle these parts, but I often find uses for them for engineering samples / prototypes etc.

Thanks!

[jimlucci]

Ok, I had not planned on posting anything about how I handled a similar dilemma but here goes. I had a pair of Sierra 1 speakers for about 10 years. When the LX upgrade kit was introduced I felt compelled to order one. This was based on three things: How great the Ascend Sierra 1 speaker sounded to begin with. How even better the Sierra Towers w/RAAL sounded when I upgraded my main listening system two years ago. And lastly, the information shared on this forum with respect to the new LX development and implementation. When the LX driver kit arrived, I upgraded the Sierra 1 cabinets without a hitch. Wow, just wow. The sound coming out of those bookshelf speakers was immense. They have been serving L/R main duty for H/T and music in my tv room. Just of out anxious curiosity, I did drag them into my dedicated music room to compare them to the towers. This was by no means a controlled comparison, but those LX bookshelves did not shrink from the challenge. They are some meaty bookshelf speakers. Did they exceed the towers? Not quite....but they sure did punch way above their weight class. When I get more time (snow starts falling), I want to do some additional comparisons.

What this left me with, of course, was (4) Sierra 1 drivers and (2) Sierra 1 crossovers. There sat some quality components that had provided me with many years of great music reproduction. It just seemed like such a waste. The upgrade of the Sierra 1 cabinets gave me the opportunity to see the construction and measure the dimensions of the cabinets that formerly housed these components. I assembled a list of materials and started building cabinets that approximated the original Sierra 1 cabinets. I did not initially want to share this on the forum because I did not want to horrify Dave with some Frankenstein version of his beautiful work, but I learned a few things that I feel compelled to share: The craftsmanship of his products is incredible. The attention to detail and the quality of construction is top notch. The amount of time to reproduce just the physical components not to mention the cost gave me a whole new perspective on the incredible value he provides with his Sierra line of speakers. I can't even imagine the time spent in design and R/D. I have a whole new appreciation for Dave and the Ascend line of products after having undertaken this little project. I am not sure where I will employ them (rear surrounds, workshop/garage system) but they at least live on somewhat and they sound a lot better than they did in their cardboard storage boxes.

couple of pics:

2425

2426

2427

[racrawford65]

Nice post, Jim. Thanks for sharing.

[33na3rd]

Wow, those look nice!

[theophile]

Beautiful Jim, Well Done! :)

Ted

[jimlucci]

Thanks Ted!

It was A LOT of time and work. I only did it to re-home the original Sierra 1 drivers/crossovers as they were still in great shape (plus I was looking for a small woodworking project to work on). They still sound very good.

The LX upgrade to the original Sierra 1 cabinets was very easy and I cannot believe the sound - they are like mini-towers now. I still love the sound of my Sierra Towers w/RAAL but the LX upgraded bookshelves are a really beautiful sounding speaker.

[curtis]

It was A LOT of time and work. I only did it to re-home the original Sierra 1 drivers/crossovers as they were still in great shape (plus I was looking for a small woodworking project to work on). They still sound very good.
Wow...great work!
It looks like the spacing between the woofer and tweeter is a little bigger than a "real" Sierra, or does it just look that way from the camera angle/lens?

[jimlucci]

Good question. Got out the tape measure and it is about 1/2 inch further apart than the original spacing. I tried to keep the internal volume and construction of the cabinet the same as the original, but I was working with 1" thick laminated mahogany so there were some small size differences to the original cabinet.

[curtis]

Good question. Got out the tape measure and it is about 1/2 inch further apart than the original spacing. I tried to keep the internal volume and construction of the cabinet the same as the original, but I was working with 1" thick laminated mahogany so there were some small size differences to the original cabinet.
That spacing is important as well when it comes to the drivers interaction with each other and the baffle. That said, if sounds good...that's great. It would be fun to compare with a real Sierra-1.

[davef]

Ok, I had not planned on posting anything about how I handled a similar dilemma but here goes. I had a pair of Sierra 1 speakers for about 10 years. When the LX upgrade kit was introduced I felt compelled to order one. This was based on three things: How great the Ascend Sierra 1 speaker sounded to begin with. How even better the Sierra Towers w/RAAL sounded when I upgraded my main listening system two years ago. And lastly, the information shared on this forum with respect to the new LX development and implementation. When the LX driver kit arrived, I upgraded the Sierra 1 cabinets without a hitch. Wow, just wow. The sound coming out of those bookshelf speakers was immense. They have been serving L/R main duty for H/T and music in my tv room. Just of out anxious curiosity, I did drag them into my dedicated music room to compare them to the towers. This was by no means a controlled comparison, but those LX bookshelves did not shrink from the challenge. They are some meaty bookshelf speakers. Did they exceed the towers? Not quite....but they sure did punch way above their weight class. When I get more time (snow starts falling), I want to do some additional comparisons.

What this left me with, of course, was (4) Sierra 1 drivers and (2) Sierra 1 crossovers. There sat some quality components that had provided me with many years of great music reproduction. It just seemed like such a waste. The upgrade of the Sierra 1 cabinets gave me the opportunity to see the construction and measure the dimensions of the cabinets that formerly housed these components. I assembled a list of materials and started building cabinets that approximated the original Sierra 1 cabinets. I did not initially want to share this on the forum because I did not want to horrify Dave with some Frankenstein version of his beautiful work, but I learned a few things that I feel compelled to share: The craftsmanship of his products is incredible. The attention to detail and the quality of construction is top notch. The amount of time to reproduce just the physical components not to mention the cost gave me a whole new perspective on the incredible value he provides with his Sierra line of speakers. I can't even imagine the time spent in design and R/D. I have a whole new appreciation for Dave and the Ascend line of products after having undertaken this little project. I am not sure where I will employ them (rear surrounds, workshop/garage system) but they at least live on somewhat and they sound a lot better than they did in their cardboard storage boxes.

couple of pics:

2425

2426

2427

Wow!!! Fantastic job!!! And thank you so much for the wonderful comments :) Are you prepared to build about 600 cabinets for us? ;)

[jimlucci]

Wow!!! Fantastic job!!! And thank you so much for the wonderful comments :) Are you prepared to build about 600 cabinets for us? ;)

Lol.....No! Upgrading the Sierra1's to the LX was a great move for me - very happy I decided to do it. I now have a tower-like bookshelf speaker and it enabled me to see all of the quality work that goes into the construction of these speakers. It was fun and interesting to try and build a cabinet myself to utilize the original Sierra 1 components. They still sound great, but the upgraded LX's are a whole new animal. Really happy I decided to upgrade to the LX drivers - they sound incredible.

[goldark]

Ok, I had not planned on posting anything about how I handled a similar dilemma but here goes. I had a pair of Sierra 1 speakers for about 10 years. When the LX upgrade kit was introduced I felt compelled to order one. This was based on three things: How great the Ascend Sierra 1 speaker sounded to begin with. How even better the Sierra Towers w/RAAL sounded when I upgraded my main listening system two years ago. And lastly, the information shared on this forum with respect to the new LX development and implementation. When the LX driver kit arrived, I upgraded the Sierra 1 cabinets without a hitch. Wow, just wow. The sound coming out of those bookshelf speakers was immense. They have been serving L/R main duty for H/T and music in my tv room. Just of out anxious curiosity, I did drag them into my dedicated music room to compare them to the towers. This was by no means a controlled comparison, but those LX bookshelves did not shrink from the challenge. They are some meaty bookshelf speakers. Did they exceed the towers? Not quite....but they sure did punch way above their weight class. When I get more time (snow starts falling), I want to do some additional comparisons.

What this left me with, of course, was (4) Sierra 1 drivers and (2) Sierra 1 crossovers. There sat some quality components that had provided me with many years of great music reproduction. It just seemed like such a waste. The upgrade of the Sierra 1 cabinets gave me the opportunity to see the construction and measure the dimensions of the cabinets that formerly housed these components. I assembled a list of materials and started building cabinets that approximated the original Sierra 1 cabinets. I did not initially want to share this on the forum because I did not want to horrify Dave with some Frankenstein version of his beautiful work, but I learned a few things that I feel compelled to share: The craftsmanship of his products is incredible. The attention to detail and the quality of construction is top notch. The amount of time to reproduce just the physical components not to mention the cost gave me a whole new perspective on the incredible value he provides with his Sierra line of speakers. I can't even imagine the time spent in design and R/D. I have a whole new appreciation for Dave and the Ascend line of products after having undertaken this little project. I am not sure where I will employ them (rear surrounds, workshop/garage system) but they at least live on somewhat and they sound a lot better than they did in their cardboard storage boxes.

couple of pics:

2425

2426

2427

Those look fantastic! Did you notice any difference in sound between your original Sierra 1's and the new version with your cabinets?

[jimlucci]

[QUOTE=goldark;69991]Those look fantastic! Did you notice any difference in sound between your original Sierra 1's and the new version with your cabinets?[/QUOT

I think they still sound very good, though I can't really say they have not changed in some way without either a controlled side by side test or running some measurements. They definitely sound better than they did in the cardboard box they were sitting in. :-)

I can say the LX upgraded Sierra 1 original cabinets sound remarkably better - in all respects. The tweeter is very much more detailed and without a hint of fatigue and the mids and low end, well it's just crazy good.

[curtis]

Wow!!! Fantastic job!!! And thank you so much for the wonderful comments :) Are you prepared to build about 600 cabinets for us? ;)


Lol.....No!

come on, Jim! Dave needs a US cabinet builder!! :D

[jimlucci]

come on, Jim! Dave needs a US cabinet builder!! :D

lol - one and done!!!:D

[diesel79]

Finally hit the bullet and ordered the upgrade crossovers yesterday. Excited to see what they bring.

Are most re-running room correction, or not really needed? I’m really only eq’ing below 500hz for the LCR and very minimal at that.

[bkdc]

Just did a Sierra-2 to EX V2 upgrade. Funny findings.

My current Sierra-2’s were sent to me about five years ago as warrantied replacements after one of the original Chinese-manufactured gloss finished cabinets developed a split. The Chinese gloss ones were no longer made so I was offered American-made bamboo cabinets. There was always a slight rattling noise in one speaker but sound quality was never an issue. I figured one of the wires was just tapping on the bracing.

Anyway, I remove the tweeter and woofer and what do I see? An acorn and a few nuts…. I know I didn’t have a squirrel infestation inside my house. I had to guess some critter was thinking about storing away some food and getting in/out through the porthole.

Dave, did you have any squirrel issues some years ago? LOL.

Love the Sierra-2EX V2 upgrade! :)

[davef]

Just did a Sierra-2 to EX V2 upgrade. Funny findings.

My current Sierra-2’s were sent to me about five years ago as warrantied replacements after one of the original Chinese-manufactured gloss finished cabinets developed a split. The Chinese gloss ones were no longer made so I was offered American-made bamboo cabinets. There was always a slight rattling noise in one speaker but sound quality was never an issue. I figured one of the wires was just tapping on the bracing.

Anyway, I remove the tweeter and woofer and what do I see? An acorn and a few nuts…. I know I didn’t have a squirrel infestation inside my house. I had to guess some critter was thinking about storing away some food and getting in/out through the porthole.

Dave, did you have any squirrel issues some years ago? LOL.

Love the Sierra-2EX V2 upgrade! :)

That's funny! No, not even remotely possible for this to happen at our facility. But we have found all sorts of crazy things in speaker cabinets that come back to us for service or upgrades. I remember finding a few pacifiers inside a Sierra-1 cabinet, the customer was complaining that the woofer sounded funny. He had a good laugh when we showed him the pics.

[racrawford65]

Damn squirrels. Ever work at a dry cleaners? You'd not imagine some of the stuff folks leave in their clothes ...we were supposed to put found items in an envelope and staple it to the ticket. I recall finding marijuana (not stapled ;-), panties (and not the wife's - you should have seen the look on her face when she picked up the cleaning), etc. Someone even brought in their KKK robe...that shocked the cleaning staff. Told them it was someone that worked there - it went dead silent when he walked into work that day.

[bkdc]

I guess I can’t rule out my toddlers carrying them in from outside as we have three huge oak trees that rain acorns. I didn’t notice any rodent droppings in there which is the typical critter sign.

[drewface]

Sounds like something that happened to me 12 years ago!

https://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4529-Moving-surprise!

[davef]

I guess I can’t rule out my toddlers carrying them in from outside as we have three huge oak trees that rain acorns. I didn’t notice any rodent droppings in there which is the typical critter sign.

This is likely the cause. Every cabinet we have here at the office is stored in full packaging and I honestly haven't seen a squirrel or acorns anywhere near our business park (too many coyotes). We do have a lot of raccoons though, and palm trees.

[diesel79]

Just got the new crossovers installed. It was a little involved, but nothing difficult with the right tools. One hiccup was one of the binding posts was cranked in so tight it semi stripped the threads on the post, but, and the lock washer was all deformed. Had to run to the hardware store for a new lock washer.

On to the good stuff. I’m noticing a lot more details in the mids/vocals. Seemed to bring a big step up in clarity. It’s not quite Horizon territory in the clarity department, but it’s definitely creeping up in it. Kind of a cliche thing to say, but feels like a sheet was lifted off of them and they sound clearer and bigger. Not strained at high volumes.

Overall, it is worth the price tag but if I were to do it again, I might just send the speakers in to ascend. The Horizon would likely be much more difficult due to the amount of drivers in it. If an upgrade is offered I might be packing that beast up for a vacation to sunny CA.

[ahender]

Just got the new crossovers installed. It was a little involved, but nothing difficult with the right tools. One hiccup was one of the binding posts was cranked in so tight it semi stripped the threads on the post and the lock washer was all deformed. Had to run to the hardware store for a new lock washer.

On to the good stuff. I’m noticing a lot more details in the mids/vocals. Seemed to bring a big step up in clarity. I would say they almost now rival my Horizon in the clarity department. Kind of a cliche thing to say, but feels like a sheet was lifted off of them and they sound clearer and bigger. Not strained at high volumes.

Overall, it is worth the price tag but if I were to do it again, I might just send the speakers in to ascend. The Horizon would likely be much more difficult due to the amount of drivers in it. If an upgrade is offered I might be packing that beast up for a vacation to sunny CA.

Your post is a little more detailed than the other V2 comments I have read. Thanks for sharing.

[diesel79]

One thing that surprised me was the heft of the crossovers. I wasn’t expecting them to be so heavy. Definitely know you have a piece of quality components in your hands.

I have had 2 sets of S2’s, a set of 2EX’s, RAAL Horizon center, and now the 2EX V2 upgrades. Each iteration in the bookshelf’s has been noticeably better than the last in my opinion. Can’t wait to see what the future brings for the towers and horizon.

[ahender]

One thing that surprised me was the heft of the crossovers. I wasn’t expecting them to be so heavy. Definitely know you have a piece of quality components in your hands.

I have had 2 sets of S2’s, a set of 2EX’s, RAAL Horizon center, and now the 2EX V2 upgrades. Each iteration in the bookshelf’s has been noticeably better than the last in my opinion. Can’t wait to see what the future brings for the towers and horizon.
I’m going to buy my 2-EX upgrade kits right after Christmas. I think Dave has said the price will probably increase after the end of this year.

[rifmon]

As am I! .... but I might be sending my speakers in.

[davef]

Just got the new crossovers installed. It was a little involved, but nothing difficult with the right tools. One hiccup was one of the binding posts was cranked in so tight it semi stripped the threads on the post, but, and the lock washer was all deformed. Had to run to the hardware store for a new lock washer.

On to the good stuff. I’m noticing a lot more details in the mids/vocals. Seemed to bring a big step up in clarity. It’s not quite Horizon territory in the clarity department, but it’s definitely creeping up in it. Kind of a cliche thing to say, but feels like a sheet was lifted off of them and they sound clearer and bigger. Not strained at high volumes.

Overall, it is worth the price tag but if I were to do it again, I might just send the speakers in to ascend. The Horizon would likely be much more difficult due to the amount of drivers in it. If an upgrade is offered I might be packing that beast up for a vacation to sunny CA.

Thanks for the feedback. It does seem as if I underestimated how audible the upgrade was going to be, so far - the feedback we have received has been outstanding and I am most pleased about this :)

[Fantom]

Just embarking on installing this upgrade. Is anyone else struggling with all the "gently" steps? I have piano black cabinets and so am trying to be extremely careful. However, removing the wire connectors from the tweeter required a pliers and an extreme amount of force. I'm now trying to remove the woofer and cannot get it to budge. Trying the trick listed in the instructions is so far just scraping up the perimeter of the woofer around the screw holes.

[diesel79]

Just embarking on installing this upgrade. Is anyone else struggling with all the "gently" steps? I have piano black cabinets and so am trying to be extremely careful. However, removing the wire connectors from the tweeter required a pliers and an extreme amount of force. I'm now trying to remove the woofer and cannot get it to budge. Trying the trick listed in the instructions is so far just scraping up the perimeter of the woofer around the screw holes.

Yea, I had troubles with those connections too. I ended up cutting the lead wires off the crossover and then carefully got them off by squeezing the part of the connector that wraps around the spade on the speaker. They then dropped right off.

For future upgrades to my Horizon I will be sending it in for Ascend to perform the install.

[SunByrne]

Just embarking on installing this upgrade. Is anyone else struggling with all the "gently" steps? I have piano black cabinets and so am trying to be extremely careful.

I strongly suspect the only people who have swapped the internals of a Sierra bookshelf more than me work at Ascend. And I just got my V2 kit so I'll be doing it yet again soon.

So, first piece of advice: thin cotton gloves are super helpful for handling the glossy cabinets. (Back in the early days, these were included.)


However, removing the wire connectors from the tweeter required a pliers and an extreme amount of force.

Not super common, but yes, I've certainly had to use pliers to disconnect from the speaker terminals.


I'm now trying to remove the woofer and cannot get it to budge. Trying the trick listed in the instructions is so far just scraping up the perimeter of the woofer around the screw holes.

I've definitely had the woofer stick in this process—sometimes the gasket has made such a good seal that the woofer won't move easily even with the screws out.

Here's what I do when that happens:
[1] Make sure the screws are out of the woofer.
[2] Get something soft like a blanket or a couple towels or something like that, and lean the cabinet forward until the woofer is facing straight down.
[3] Lift the cabinet up just a tiny bit, and try jiggling/tapping the cabinet and see if you can get the woofer to move.
[4] If not, set the cabinet back down, then lift the top end of it (so the speaker is leaning forward) just enough so you can access the hole where the tweeter was, and get something like a ruler in there and use that to lever the woofer out. You might even be able to use your hand if you have longer fingers than I do. You might be tempted to use a long metal screwdriver for this, but don't do that. A wooden or plastic ruler has always done the job for me.

Dave may have other suggestions but this has always worked for me.

[theophile]

Just embarking on installing this upgrade. Is anyone else struggling with all the "gently" steps? I have piano black cabinets and so am trying to be extremely careful. However, removing the wire connectors from the tweeter required a pliers and an extreme amount of force. I'm now trying to remove the woofer and cannot get it to budge. Trying the trick listed in the instructions is so far just scraping up the perimeter of the woofer around the screw holes.

Fantom,

If you are speaking about removing the drivers from the cabinet, I simply removed all screws from the woofer, then gently brought the cabinet up from its laying position (while supporting the speaker rim) and tilting the front baffle forward...woofer came right out into my support hand. Repeated this process for the RAAL tweeters!

If you are referencing the slip on/off X-over terminal connections, 6 of the 8 connectors in my pair of 2EX were excessively tight! I inserted the tips of small Snap-Ring Pliers (outside snap ring set) and gently pried-open the connector curled sides, allowing easy removal of the stubborn terminals!

Hope this helps,

Ted

[Fantom]

Thanks for the tips! I was able to tilt the speaker forward and hit the side of the speaker a dozen times with the base of my palm and the woofer slid out. Rest of the first speaker went smoothly. 2nd speaker was a breeze though it still took me an hour being careful. 3rd speaker was also stubborn like the first but the prying trick mentioned above worked to easily disconnect the driver leads from the old crossover and the screw trick mentioned in the instructions actually worked to get the woofer out. Ultimately the 3rd went quickly because I had learned the tricks.

Got everything back together, cabinets cleaned up, confirmed all in working order and then headed out to dinner. So far have only listened to background music while playing a board game so cannot comment on any sonic difference.

[briand]

I finished the V2 upgrade about 2 weeks ago. If you take your time, its not hard at all. Only problem I had was detaching one of the connectors to the woofer. I should have reached out to Dave and he would have told me what to do to loosen. Instead, I was impatient and kept working at it with increasing force till I broke off the tab on the woofer. Fortunately, there was plenty of room to solder the wire from the new crossover even with my beginner skills. The lesson for those of you doing this, if you get stuck, reach out to Dave or here and most likely, its easily solved.

I will 2nd whats been said. More energy coming from the tweeter, more kick in the drums, more details in vocals. I think soundstage has more front/back separation but thats a hard quality to say for sure.

For my 2.1 music system, I don't think I could have found a better upgrade for under $500.

[ahender]

The 2-EX V2 is rated at 34 Hz. It it tuned to play 34Hz music?

[curtis]

The 2-EX V2 is rated at 34 Hz. It it tuned to play 34Hz music?
That is the typical in-room response.
Anechoic it is -3db at 51Hz, -6db at 42Hz

You can expect good response to 34Hz in-room, but remember, all rooms are different.

Does that help?

[ahender]

That is the typical in-room response.
Anechoic it is -3db at 51Hz, -6db at 42Hz

You can expect good response to 34Hz in-room, but remember, all rooms are different.

Does that help?







Thanks!

[dap7777]

Thank you Ed for your reply! That's a bummer. I had a chance to buy a used pair of Sierra-2EXs in satin black with the domestic cabinet for $1100 awhile back. Now I'm really regretting not buying them :-(!

I have a pair of Sierra 2EX,upgraded from Sierra NrT, in gloss cherry. Don't know if they are domestic or foreign, but I'd guess domestic. Right now I'm looking into V2 upgrade, but if that doesn't work out I may consider a sale. Excellent shape, no smoke with original box etc...

[ahender]

With all the talk about people planning to upgrade their towers, I feel less guilty about spending $290 to upgrade my 2-EXs. Order placed!

[indiligent]

I performed the V2 upgrade last night. 1/2 inch socket on the binding post nut was too loose for my liking so I used a 12mm which seemed perfect.

After the upgrade I turned Dirac room correction off (but I'm still using a small subwoofer crossed at 70Hz) and I'm really enjoying these speakers. I went to bed way too late because I kept playing more and more music from my collection. These were articulate, competent speakers before the crossover upgrade, but I don't remember ever feeling like I was compelled to listen to music on them for hours at a time. Maybe I'm just in the honeymoon phase again but they just sound so good. I'm using these nearfield with my computer, powered by Hypex NC400 monoblock amps. The dynamic range is incredible. I can't imagine wanting anything more out of a pair of speakers. I think these now sound better than the towers/horizon combo in my living room (although those are powered by inferior amplification).

If the forthcoming tower upgrades sound this good, and I expect they will, I can't wait.

[hometheater]

I always use Audesssey equalization on my Denon x4400h on my setup as to me, it provides improvement over not having it.

Will I see as big an improvement as others are saying with this upgrade if I'm using Audesssey with the speakers?

[goldark]

I always use Audesssey equalization on my Denon x4400h on my setup as to me, it provides improvement over not having it.

Will I see as big an improvement as others are saying with this upgrade if I'm using Audesssey with the speakers?

It's best to use Audyssey for bass correction which is influenced by your room and affects all speakers.. I would use the Audyssey app for your phone ($20) and limit Audyssey correction to frequencies below about 250 or 300 Hz (I personally use 500 Hz). Leave everything above untouched and let your speakers shine. FYI, this method is also promoted by Floyd Toole as well - speakers that measure well, such as the Sierras, don't need equalization above the room's transition frequency, typically around 250-300 Hz (but definitely under 500 Hz, which is why I used that for my room).

[ahender]

It's best to use Audyssey for bass correction which is influenced by your room and affects all speakers.. I would use the Audyssey app for your phone ($20) and limit Audyssey correction to frequencies below about 250 or 300 Hz (I personally use 500 Hz). Leave everything above untouched and let your speakers shine. FYI, this method is also promoted by Floyd Toole as well - speakers that measure well, such as the Sierras, don't need equalization above the room's transition frequency, typically around 250-300 Hz (but definitely under 500 Hz, which is why I used that for my room).

What would be the difference you are hearing or not hearing with your method? I’ve never tried the app.

[hometheater]

It's best to use Audyssey for bass correction which is influenced by your room and affects all speakers.. I would use the Audyssey app for your phone ($20) and limit Audyssey correction to frequencies below about 250 or 300 Hz (I personally use 500 Hz). Leave everything above untouched and let your speakers shine. FYI, this method is also promoted by Floyd Toole as well - speakers that measure well, such as the Sierras, don't need equalization above the room's transition frequency, typically around 250-300 Hz (but definitely under 500 Hz, which is why I used that for my room).

I am using the app but applying the settings for full range and sub.

I might give this a try. I use the app to mainly remove the midrange compensation that it automatically adds.

Still, I'm wondering how big a difference the V2 upgrade would be if the speakers are equalizaed. After all, the upgrade has no new drivers and it was to even out the frequency response as I understand it.

[goldark]

It all depends on your room and what that specific Audyssey calibration is doing at that time. I've had multiple calibrations do wildly different things with the same speakers and positioning. The reasoning is above the transition frequency (Schroeder), the speaker's natural frequency dominates what we hear, while below it, the room dominates. If you have a flat, neutral speaker, then room EQ has a significant chance of actually worsening it and the safest route is to leave it untouched at these higher frequencies.

[Mag_Neato]

2EX V2 upgrades ordered!

[hometheater]

I understand your point. A well designed speaker would likely be better than some secondary equalization technique especially for the frequencies you mentioned.

I'm going to tinker with this in my setup but in my experience, the Audyssey results have been fairly consistent for me.

[SunByrne]

Sierra-2 EX V2 upgrade

OK, so I'm a huge fan of the Sierra-LX and have judged it to generally be a superior speaker to the EX—I wrote an enormously long review comparing the two, which is here (http://byrneweb.com/sunburn/blog/2022/05/01/ascend-acoustics-sierra-lx-vs-sierra-2ex-comparison/).

That was a comparison with the original version of the EX, though.

Dave's really been putting the Klippel through its paces of late, which is part of the magic behind the LX. And as much as I love the LX, the other thing the Klippel got us was the V2 version of the Duo. This was a pretty striking upgrade given that there weren't any new drivers, just new crossovers and damping material. As much as I hate to admit it, the Duos were my least favorite of my many Ascend speakers and the first ones where I didn't go "wow" when I first tried them out. They were good, yes, but I wasn't wowed. First Ascend product I didn't write a long review for and first one I actually considered sending back. I need something wall-mounted that doesn't stick out too far for my living room HT, though, and I just didn't see there being better options at that price point. When the V2 upgrades were announced, I jumped on them, and there it was, the "wow" I had been hoping for with the Duos—it was a really dramatic difference. So glad I kept them.

So that puts the bar pretty high for the V2 upgrade on the EXs. Again, no new drivers, but it's still Dave with the Klippel and the Duo upgrade was such a huge home run, how could I not? Also, I have a long track record of ordering pretty much every possible upgrade for the Sierra bookshelves, so why break with tradition?

Had the house to myself today so that means loudspeaker day. This won't be anything close to the scale of my LX vs. EX review: no side-by-side hours of switching back and forth. Just listened to the EX V1s for a while, the switched them over to the V2s and listened again. Much less precise, but hopefully still valuable.

Spent a good solid hour doing critical listening with the pre-upgrade EXs. This is a 2.1 setup with an RSL Speedwoofer Mk2 handling bass duties, crossed over at 60Hz. The EXs are mounted on the wall so not a lot of breathing room for the port so I wasn't going to run the V2s full-range, so this is all with a sub. The Mk2 Speedwoofer is not a Rhythmik but it's pretty close. No room correction here, either—I'll save that for when I convert it to a 3.1.

Did the upgrade, no worries there. Bummer you have to go through the whole procedure just to replace the crossovers, but still not a big deal. As noted elsewhere, I'd be willing to put up money that outside of Ascend employees, I've done this more than anyone else. Anyway, set 'em up and let 'em rip. Did another hour or so of critical listening.

Immediately obvious positive difference on two fronts:

* The V2s are more neutral than the V1s. The V1s are a bit on the bright side, which was really obvious when running them side-by-side with the more neutral LXs. Without another side-by-side, I'm not 100% sure how the V2s compare with the LXs. My guess is that they're still a teensy bit brighter than the LXs, but only by a very small amount. Definitely better balanced now. The added warmth to the V2s brings out the detail in the mids in a particularly pleasing way. It's not dramatic but it's definitely audible and an improvement.
* The V2s are more spacious than the V1s. The EXs have always been a nice open-sounding speaker, but now they're even better. I found the soundstage between the original EXs and the LXs to be pretty similar, but I suspect (again, this is a bit speculative since I didn't listen to them head-to-head) that the EXs now take the crown here. Really excellent width and depth to the soundstage. This is the more noticeable of the two changes, and is especially evident on classical music.

Yes, this is pretty much what everyone else has said. Somebody on the thread commented on improved bass extensions, but since I'm crossed over at 60Hz, I didn't hear any of that. YMMV.

Is it a sizable improvement? Yes. Is it as big a step up as the V2 upgrade was for the Duos? No. At the risk of Dave's wrath, I think the EX was a better speaker than the Duo before the V2 upgrade, so there wasn't as much room for improvement. Still a really nice step up for a very reasonable price.

Huge shoutout to Dave for this kind of thing. While lots of companies are also striving to make their products better, I think it's safe to say that nobody else is working so hard to make it possible to upgrade existing products. Pretty much whenever anyone else releases a new speaker, you have to just buy entirely new speakers. These opportunities to upgrade existing speakers are just amazing—what an incredible service to your customers, Dave.

OK, let's wrap up with Q&A time!
* Should I upgrade my EXs to V2? At $135 per speaker, this is a no-brainer—yes, do it now before the price goes up.
* Do I think the LX is still the better speaker? Yes, but less so overall and much more dependent on context. With the V1 I would say the vast majority of people should probably get the LX over the EX. Now? Still probably a majority, but a smaller one. I mean, it's a good news story either way. The LX still does some things better, now it's just that for some of those things the LX isn't much better, and now the EX has overtaken, at least on soundstage.
* So who should get the LX? If you care about bass slam or about performance vertically off-axis, you still want the LX—that would be my preference for HT and/or without a sub.
* So, who should get the EX? If you primarily listen to classical/acoustic music and either don't feel like you need a sub or already have one, I'd get the EX.

[rifmon]

Thanks for your outstanding detailed review SunByrne.

You confirmed what I suspected which is it gets closer to the LX in some aspects (flat response, less bright) but also exceeds the LX in aspects for those who listen to acoustic orchestral music. I might add to those genres big bands such as Sinatra, Maynard Ferguson, etc ...that are still in the acoustic category but often missed. I listen to all types of music and even with the EX v1, I do not miss much bass. It might be my room but I'm often astounded by the response which may or may not be typical. And my speakers are placed 2 1/2 feet from a half wall which is lower than the port on the backs.

I decided I will do my own upgrade as I did going from the Sierra 2 to the EX. I am lucky enough to have the domestic cabinets which are no more.

[Mag_Neato]

Yes, thanks SunByrne for your thoughts!

I have the V2 crossovers on order so the waiting game is on:cool:

[MDinno]

Sierra-2 EX V2 upgrade

OK, so I'm a huge fan of the Sierra-LX and have judged it to generally be a superior speaker to the EX—I wrote an enormously long review comparing the two, which is here (http://byrneweb.com/sunburn/blog/2022/05/01/ascend-acoustics-sierra-lx-vs-sierra-2ex-comparison/).

That was a comparison with the original version of the EX, though.

Dave's really been putting the Klippel through its paces of late, which is part of the magic behind the LX. And as much as I love the LX, the other thing the Klippel got us was the V2 version of the Duo. This was a pretty striking upgrade given that there weren't any new drivers, just new crossovers and damping material. As much as I hate to admit it, the Duos were my least favorite of my many Ascend speakers and the first ones where I didn't go "wow" when I first tried them out. They were good, yes, but I wasn't wowed. First Ascend product I didn't write a long review for and first one I actually considered sending back. I need something wall-mounted that doesn't stick out too far for my living room HT, though, and I just didn't see there being better options at that price point. When the V2 upgrades were announced, I jumped on them, and there it was, the "wow" I had been hoping for with the Duos—it was a really dramatic difference. So glad I kept them.

So that puts the bar pretty high for the V2 upgrade on the EXs. Again, no new drivers, but it's still Dave with the Klippel and the Duo upgrade was such a huge home run, how could I not? Also, I have a long track record of ordering pretty much every possible upgrade for the Sierra bookshelves, so why break with tradition?

Had the house to myself today so that means loudspeaker day. This won't be anything close to the scale of my LX vs. EX review: no side-by-side hours of switching back and forth. Just listened to the EX V1s for a while, the switched them over to the V2s and listened again. Much less precise, but hopefully still valuable.

Spent a good solid hour doing critical listening with the pre-upgrade EXs. This is a 2.1 setup with an RSL Speedwoofer Mk2 handling bass duties, crossed over at 60Hz. The EXs are mounted on the wall so not a lot of breathing room for the port so I wasn't going to run the V2s full-range, so this is all with a sub. The Mk2 Speedwoofer is not a Rhythmik but it's pretty close. No room correction here, either—I'll save that for when I convert it to a 3.1.

Did the upgrade, no worries there. Bummer you have to go through the whole procedure just to replace the crossovers, but still not a big deal. As noted elsewhere, I'd be willing to put up money that outside of Ascend employees, I've done this more than anyone else. Anyway, set 'em up and let 'em rip. Did another hour or so of critical listening.

Immediately obvious positive difference on two fronts:

* The V2s are more neutral than the V1s. The V1s are a bit on the bright side, which was really obvious when running them side-by-side with the more neutral LXs. Without another side-by-side, I'm not 100% sure how the V2s compare with the LXs. My guess is that they're still a teensy bit brighter than the LXs, but only by a very small amount. Definitely better balanced now. The added warmth to the V2s brings out the detail in the mids in a particularly pleasing way. It's not dramatic but it's definitely audible and an improvement.
* The V2s are more spacious than the V1s. The EXs have always been a nice open-sounding speaker, but now they're even better. I found the soundstage between the original EXs and the LXs to be pretty similar, but I suspect (again, this is a bit speculative since I didn't listen to them head-to-head) that the EXs now take the crown here. Really excellent width and depth to the soundstage. This is the more noticeable of the two changes, and is especially evident on classical music.

Yes, this is pretty much what everyone else has said. Somebody on the thread commented on improved bass extensions, but since I'm crossed over at 60Hz, I didn't hear any of that. YMMV.

Is it a sizable improvement? Yes. Is it as big a step up as the V2 upgrade was for the Duos? No. At the risk of Dave's wrath, I think the EX was a better speaker than the Duo before the V2 upgrade, so there wasn't as much room for improvement. Still a really nice step up for a very reasonable price.

Huge shoutout to Dave for this kind of thing. While lots of companies are also striving to make their products better, I think it's safe to say that nobody else is working so hard to make it possible to upgrade existing products. Pretty much whenever anyone else releases a new speaker, you have to just buy entirely new speakers. These opportunities to upgrade existing speakers are just amazing—what an incredible service to your customers, Dave.

OK, let's wrap up with Q&A time!
* Should I upgrade my EXs to V2? At $135 per speaker, this is a no-brainer—yes, do it now before the price goes up.
* Do I think the LX is still the better speaker? Yes, but less so overall and much more dependent on context. With the V1 I would say the vast majority of people should probably get the LX over the EX. Now? Still probably a majority, but a smaller one. I mean, it's a good news story either way. The LX still does some things better, now it's just that for some of those things the LX isn't much better, and now the EX has overtaken, at least on soundstage.
* So who should get the LX? If you care about bass slam or about performance vertically off-axis, you still want the LX—that would be my preference for HT and/or without a sub.
* So, who should get the EX? If you primarily listen to classical/acoustic music and either don't feel like you need a sub or already have one, I'd get the EX.

Ok, so which speaker makes the better center?? Would getting LX mains and the EX V2 for center make sense??

[N Boros]

Ok, so which speaker makes the better center?? Would getting LX mains and the EX V2 for center make sense??

If the center will be placed horizontally, I think the Duo might be better with the EX V2 mains, as you have the ribbon tweeter to match and you will have symmetrical dispersion left and right.

I could be wrong, but I thought there were talks of the Duo getting the LX tweeter down the line, maybe mentioned in the LX development thread. If that is the case then again the Duo might be a better choice.

Obviously if you can fit the Horizon, then that would be the best center with the matching tweeter, but if you have space for the Horizon, you might also be able to fit a vertically oriented LX or EX V2 as the center, which would be a great option.

[SunByrne]

Ok, so which speaker makes the better center?? Would getting LX mains and the EX V2 for center make sense??

I wouldn’t mix LX and EX. If you want the EX sound, then get EXs all the way across. If you want the LX sound, get LXs all the way across.

[MDinno]

I wouldn’t mix LX and EX. If you want the EX sound, then get EXs all the way across. If you want the LX sound, get LXs all the way across.

I know; I only ask because of the detail the EX brings which is ideal for center channel duties. Having said that will the Horizon go with either one?

[diesel79]

I know; I only ask because of the detail the EX brings which is ideal for center channel duties. Having said that will the Horizon go with either one?

You can get the Horizon with a RAAL or the LX (Titan) tweeter. From what I understand the tweeters play nice together. If you were buying all three at once you might as well match them though. If the Horizon is in the cards, it’s always a yes to buy. It’s awesome and I have the old version ( updating to the ELX version after Christmas though). I have the RAAL Horizon and Sierra 2EXv2’s for L/R.

[davef]

Ok, so which speaker makes the better center?? Would getting LX mains and the EX V2 for center make sense??

Yes, they actually perform extremely well together (LX for left/right and EX for center). The EX center has a bit better directivity and a slight edge in dialogue clarity compared to using the LX center. However, if you aren't using a subwoofer, then go with the LX center. You really can't go wrong with either.

[MDinno]

Yes, they actually perform extremely well together (LX for left/right and EX for center). The EX center has a bit better directivity and a slight edge in dialogue clarity compared to using the LX center. However, if you aren't using a subwoofer, then go with the LX center. You really can't go wrong with either.

Thanks, I'm all over the place. I'm considering also the 340SE2. I wish I could listen to all of them so I can decide. The 340 sure is a great bang for the buck. I mean I will be getting the Rythmik sub so the 340 might be perfect.

[RMW]

Thanks, I'm all over the place. I'm considering also the 340SE2. I wish I could listen to all of them so I can decide. The 340 sure is a great bang for the buck. I mean I will be getting the Rythmik sub so the 340 might be perfect.

I’d probably just go with whatever Dave recommends, but my .02 cents: If you’re building a system for majority home theater I’d go with 340 v2s all around and save some money. If the system is going to also be used for a lot of music, then I think LX or EX would suit you fine. I own both and in normal listening have trouble distinguishing them…especially when paired with a subwoofer.

P.S. - I did have LX mains paired with an EX2 center for a minute. I eventually switched to an LX center, but literally didn’t notice one bit of difference after room correction and level matching. Both were placed vertically.

[MDinno]

I’d probably just go with whatever Dave recommends, but my .02 cents: If you’re building a system for majority home theater I’d go with 340 v2s all around and save some money. If the system is going to also be used for a lot of music, then I think LX or EX would suit you fine. I own both and in normal listening have trouble distinguishing them…especially when paired with a subwoofer.

P.S. - I did have LX mains paired with an EX2 center for a minute. I eventually switched to an LX center, but literally didn’t notice one bit of difference after room correction and level matching. Both were placed vertically.

Which is the better center out of the three? Do you notice the 340v2 is easier to drive?

[ahender]

I have a friend who has been running three 340v1 speakers for about 15 years. His HT room is 900 sq. ft. With a big HSU sub it will deliver an awesome movie experience. His ceilings are very high at the peak. Probably 12 feet.

[RMW]

Which is the better center out of the three? Do you notice the 340v2 is easier to drive?

I don’t own the new 340s. I have LXs, EXs, Luna’s, CBM-170s, and HTM-200s. But if I were building a home theater focused system now I would buy the new 340s. High efficiency, low distortion, cheap enough to get 5, matching stands, etc.

I didn’t see posted elsewhere in the thread (if I missed it I apologize), but what are your goals? Mostly home theater? Mostly music? Or split evenly? Do you have subs? Will you be using an AVR or separates? How big is your room? Are you going for 5-channel or 7-channel? What about Atmos?

[MDinno]

I don’t own the new 340s. I have LXs, EXs, Luna’s, CBM-170s, and HTM-200s. But if I were building a home theater focused system now I would buy the new 340s. High efficiency, low distortion, cheap enough to get 5, matching stands, etc.

I didn’t see posted elsewhere in the thread (if I missed it I apologize), but what are your goals? Mostly home theater? Mostly music? Or split evenly? Do you have subs? Will you be using an AVR or separates? How big is your room? Are you going for 5-channel or 7-channel? What about Atmos?

Mostly Home Theater/ Rhythmic Sub/ Pioneer Elite 4K AVR/About 15 feet from main listening area/ 5.1 maybe .2

[RMW]

Mostly Home Theater/ Rhythmic Sub/ Pioneer Elite 4K AVR/About 15 feet from main listening area/ 5.1 maybe .2

I’d personally go the with the 340s. The one downfall of the LX is it’s a bit inefficient and it does help if you have a fairly beefy amp…and that your listening position is a fair distance away from your setup.

[davef]

Mostly Home Theater/ Rhythmic Sub/ Pioneer Elite 4K AVR/About 15 feet from main listening area/ 5.1 maybe .2

new 340SE2 will be perfect!

[ahender]

Upgraded the 2-EXs just a few minutes ago. My first impression is better imaging, if that’s the correct term. Speakers and my sitting position are an equilateral triangle. Prior to the upgrade, I did not get the full center imaging of vocals. Now I do. Overall just sounds better. Seems like there’s more bass. For my room, 16x25, it was a little boomy so I plugged the ports with pieces of a small swim noodle. Cleared that up.

I have one suggestion for the upgrade directions. This coming from someone who is not mechanically inclined. Step 4, Removing the old crossover. At this step, the speaker is on its back. I started removing the crossover and it was really awkward. The crossover is on the side. Then it hit me. Place the speaker so the crossover is on the bottom. Yea I know … common sense. It’s a whole lot easier this way!

Anyway, thank you Dave and Dina for a great, affordable upgrade.

[rifmon]

Thanks for you first impressions!

Just in case you're not aware....under accessories theses are Q-Plugs just for that purpose. If you were not aware your instincts are incredible!

[ahender]

Thanks for you first impressions!

Just in case you're not aware....under accessories theses are Q-Plugs just for that purpose. If you were not aware your instincts are incredible!

You are welcome. I was aware of those. The speakers in my stereo room are also plugged.

[rifmon]

Interesting that the change created that boominess with just that 1/2 dB increase in mid bass Dave told us about. I'm assuming you played the EX in that room prior with no boominess.

[ahender]

Interesting that the change created that boominess with just that 1/2 dB increase in mid bass Dave told us about. I'm assuming you played the EX in that room prior with no boominess.

The 2-EXs have been in this room for a year. Maybe it was song choice. It’s not a negative comment. My “boominess” may be someone else perfect bass.

[Mag_Neato]

So, I received the V2 crossovers yesterday and dived right in. First, a few notes on the process:
1. My Sierra cabinets are 1st generation Sierra-1 classics. I've done various modifications to them as I upgraded from Sierra-1 to NrT, and NrT to Sierra-2. The original insulation was not the white Dacron batting. It was yellow fiberglass in black mesh glued to the insides of the cabinet. That still exists in the upper chamber where the RAAL is, but I've had the white Dacron in the lower chamber since the NrT upgrade. During the NrT to Sierra-2 conversion, the SEAS CURV woofer had a slightly larger outside diameter which necessitated opening up the woofer cutout with sandpaper, utility knife, sanding disc, etc.
That was the most labor-intensive upgrade I've done.
2. Going from Sierra-2 to -2EX was fairly painless other than having to gut the speaker again and reassemble.
3. Sierra-2EX to -2EX V2: Hiccup #1 - The first speaker had a woofer that did not want to budge. I finally worked it loose by inserting 2 Allen keys into opposing screw holes so I could pull on them to turn the woofer in the cutout, while having the speaker at an angle so it could work loose. That did the trick.
Hiccup #2 - The old, original method of securing the crossover leads to the binding posts used some sort of thick glue to lock down the brass nuts. This makes removing the nuts sometimes a bit tricky. Well, On the last post I found that the brass nut was on so tightly that my 12pt socket had rounded off the nut. After looking at the post and how it was installed, I figured I would have to remove the post entirely so I could get that stinking nut off. The base of the post below that nut, on the inside of the speaker, has a hex for use with a socket. Only problem now was I had no way of getting a socket on that due to the crossover terminal ring still being attached which impeded the socket. I had to twist the lead on the side of the ring back and forth until it snapped off, which then allowed the socket to go down over the hex flats. After lots of force to unscrew everything, I finally got the old lead ring off. I reinstalled the post into the speaker and got everything installed and back together.

After all that fun, I was able to do a little listening. I'll just echo the comments already expressed. More spacious(Open), bigger soundstage, imaging seems improved with better detail. So far so good!

[ahender]

Moved the 2-EX V2s to my 11x16 office/stereo room today for a listen side-by-side with the BMR Monitors. I thought the V2s sounded amazingly perfect.

[Mag_Neato]

Moved the 2-EX V2s to my 11x16 office/stereo room today for a listen side-by-side with the BMR Monitors. I thought the V2s sounded amazingly perfect.

But...... how do they compare?:confused:

[ahender]

But...... how do they compare?:confused:

I posted a comparison on the AVS Forum Philharmonic Audio thread. I would say read that. Dennis has questioned my speaker placement and the effect on soundstage. In only one song did I mention anything related to soundstage. In that example, both speakers sounded awesome. In I think three songs, I felt the 2-EX V2s sounded better in the lower frequencies.

[goldark]

I posted a comparison on the AVS Forum Philharmonic Audio thread. I would say read that. Dennis has questioned my speaker placement and the effect on soundstage. In only one song did I mention anything related to soundstage. In that example, both speakers sounded awesome. In I think three songs, I felt the 2-EX V2s sounded better in the lower frequencies.

Can you compare the midrange between the 2? I'm curious because the BMR midrange is supposed to be that speakers's secret sauce.

[ahender]

Can you compare the midrange between the 2? I'm curious because the BMR midrange is supposed to be that speakers's secret sauce.

The only differences I could here where the 2-EX V2 was better was in three songs which had cello and stand-up bass. I thought the lower frequencies of the cello and stand-up bass in those three songs were not as good on the BMRs. I also thought the V2s were warmer. The BMRs had the rear ports plugged or partially plugged for some songs. In my regular listening with the BMRs, the rear ports are always partially plugged.

[RicardoJoa]

Base on the measurements on ascends and erins corner, the sierra ex 2 V2 is a better measured speaker. It more more balanced top to bottom and more linear directivity. The BMR actually has a slight downward shelving in the bass and roll off highs. It appears though the bmr digs a bit lower.

[ahender]

I’ve moved the 2-EX V2s into the smaller stereo room and the BMRs to the HT room. In my house, the V2s excel in the smaller room. Bass in the HT room is difficult to get right with music. Not worried about movies. I’ll keep tweaking port plugs with the BMR until I get to a good compromise.

[davef]

Base on the measurements on ascends and erins corner, the sierra ex 2 V2 is a better measured speaker. It more more balanced top to bottom and more linear directivity. The BMR actually has a slight downward shelving in the bass and roll off highs. It appears though the bmr digs a bit lower.

I have done extensive comparisons between BMRV2 and Sierra-2EXV2. These speakers are so close in performance, with the BMR having deeper bass extension (it should, it is a much larger speaker with about twice the internal cabinet volume) while our Sierra-2EXV2 has more mid-bass information and as such, sounds punchier and livelier.

Dennis often touts how wide the horizontal dispersion of the BMR is, and it is indeed very wide - but our EXV2 is right there with it, it is easy to see that they are pretty much both the same in this regard.

General thoughts was that the wider the horizontal dispersion the more spacious the speaker sounds and I agreed with this, up until the past year or so. With the highly advanced capabilities our NFS gives us, combined with a massive amount of direct customer feedback and live demo's - without any question, there is much more involved in achieving a spacious sound than horizontal dispersion width.

I am starting to see a direct correlation with "spaciousness" and the linearity of both the DI and ERDI, and not so much horizontal dispersion width. The measured DI and ERDI of the Sierra-2EXV2 is more linear with less disparities compared to the BMRV2, that is one of the advantages of a 2-way design compared to a 3-way.

I am also starting to see a correlation with lack of center imaging focus with having horizontal dispersion that is too wide. I don't know what the ideal horizontal dispersion width is (not yet at least ;) ) but while I think wide is preferred, there is definitely a point where too wide is not good.

I'll give an example, we had 3 customers here today and we did some direct A/B comparisons between original ribbon towers and the new ELX ribbon towers. The ELX and originals have the same horizontal dispersion width, but both the DI and ERDI of the ELX is quite a bit more linear with less "kinks", and the ELX sound considerably more spacious.

It is the same with Sierra-2EX vs Sierra-2EX V2, both speakers have the same horizontal dispersion width, but the major improvements with the EXV2 was in achieving a more linear DI and ERDI, which is easy to see in the measurements. The EXV2 does sound more spacious than the original Sierra-2EX.

It is a very interesting study thus far. I enjoy being at the forefront of this emerging technology and I also enjoy freely sharing this info.

[dislocatedday]

I have been suffering from "paralysis by analysis" the last month in regards to speakers. I assume others here have suffered from this as well on occassion! I have been running Sierra-2s as my main front speakers since early 2015, supported by 2 subs crossed at 80 Hz. I've always loved them and really had no desire to change them out or upgrade them until recently. I happened to hear Philharmonic BMR monitors about a month ago. I thought they were very reminiscent of my Sierra-2s except the BMRs midrange had a more present and cleaner upper mid-range that I immediately noticed. So I started thinking about improving my front main speakers. I have been going back and forth debating between Philharmonic BMRs, Sierra-LXs, Sierra Towers, 340SEv2s, and upgrading my current S2s to S2-EXv2s.

I was literally going back and forth changing my mind daily. I finally made a list of all the pros and cons of each as it relates to my situation, and I won't go through all the factors I weighed, but the best choice in the end for me was to go ahead and just upgrade my existing S2 speakers to EXv2s. I really hope I detect much improvement when it arrives. Based on all the feedback here from other posters I think I will.

[RicardoJoa]

I have been suffering from "paralysis by analysis" the last month in regards to speakers. I assume others here have suffered from this as well on occassion! I have been running Sierra-2s as my main front speakers since early 2015, supported by 2 subs crossed at 80 Hz. I've always loved them and really had no desire to change them out or upgrade them until recently. I happened to hear Philharmonic BMR monitors about a month ago. I thought they were very reminiscent of my Sierra-2s except the BMRs midrange had a more present and cleaner upper mid-range that I immediately noticed. So I started thinking about improving my front main speakers. I have been going back and forth debating between Philharmonic BMRs, Sierra-LXs, Sierra Towers, 340SEv2s, and upgrading my current S2s to S2-EXv2s.

I was literally going back and forth changing my mind daily. I finally made a list of all the pros and cons of each as it relates to my situation, and I won't go through all the factors I weighed, but the best choice in the end for me was to go ahead and just upgrade my existing S2 speakers to EXv2s. I really hope I detect much improvement when it arrives. Based on all the feedback here from other posters I think I will.

I hope your best recovery after the upgrade 😂. One of the things I noticed when upgraded to the ex woofer is that it sounded like a bigger speaker compare to the sierra 2. It also has more tactile fell from the bass even if you cross over to the sub.

[RicardoJoa]

I have done extensive comparisons between BMRV2 and Sierra-2EXV2. These speakers are so close in performance, with the BMR having deeper bass extension (it should, it is a much larger speaker with about twice the internal cabinet volume) while our Sierra-2EXV2 has more mid-bass information and as such, sounds punchier and livelier.

Dennis often touts how wide the horizontal dispersion of the BMR is, and it is indeed very wide - but our EXV2 is right there with it, it is easy to see that they are pretty much both the same in this regard.

General thoughts was that the wider the horizontal dispersion the more spacious the speaker sounds and I agreed with this, up until the past year or so. With the highly advanced capabilities our NFS gives us, combined with a massive amount of direct customer feedback and live demo's - without any question, there is much more involved in achieving a spacious sound than horizontal dispersion width.

I am starting to see a direct correlation with "spaciousness" and the linearity of both the DI and ERDI, and not so much horizontal dispersion width. The measured DI and ERDI of the Sierra-2EXV2 is more linear with less disparities compared to the BMRV2, that is one of the advantages of a 2-way design compared to a 3-way.

I am also starting to see a correlation with lack of center imaging focus with having horizontal dispersion that is too wide. I don't know what the ideal horizontal dispersion width is (not yet at least ;) ) but while I think wide is preferred, there is definitely a point where too wide is not good.

I'll give an example, we had 3 customers here today and we did some direct A/B comparisons between original ribbon towers and the new ELX ribbon towers. The ELX and originals have the same horizontal dispersion width, but both the DI and ERDI of the ELX is quite a bit more linear with less "kinks", and the ELX sound considerably more spacious.

It is the same with Sierra-2EX vs Sierra-2EX V2, both speakers have the same horizontal dispersion width, but the major improvements with the EXV2 was in achieving a more linear DI and ERDI, which is easy to see in the measurements. The EXV2 does sound more spacious than the original Sierra-2EX.

It is a very interesting study thus far. I enjoy being at the forefront of this emerging technology and I also enjoy freely sharing this info.

No doubt about the achievements. Im getting my itch now :)

[RicardoJoa]

I’ve moved the 2-EX V2s into the smaller stereo room and the BMRs to the HT room. In my house, the V2s excel in the smaller room. Bass in the HT room is difficult to get right with music. Not worried about movies. I’ll keep tweaking port plugs with the BMR until I get to a good compromise.

Do you use sub? Any possible way to EQ?

[ahender]

Do you use sub? Any possible way to EQ?

Thanks. I've been tweaking different port plugs and have one which does sound better in pure direct mode. In stereo mode, it is crossed over to the sub. No real difference on the low end between the two as far as which one I prefer.

[RicardoJoa]

Thanks. I've been tweaking different port plugs and have one which does sound better in pure direct mode. In stereo mode, it is crossed over to the sub. No real difference on the low end between the two as far as which one I prefer.

Ok since you have a sub, try changing the sub where it faces and see it makes a difference. I know some people believe that it should not be matter since at those frequencies are omnidirectional, but in my case, i found facing away the mlp and towards the right had the least effect on room mode. I also use rew to help me figure what the offensive frequencies are and tame down by using peq. Plugging the port can sometimes have great effect on sub integration. At least ot is what I had experienced.

[ahender]

Ok since you have a sub, try changing the sub where it faces and see it makes a difference. I know some people believe that it should not be matter since at those frequencies are omnidirectional, but in my case, i found facing away the mlp and towards the right had the least effect on room mode. I also use rew to help me figure what the offensive frequencies are and tame down by using peq. Plugging the port can sometimes have great effect on sub integration. At least ot is what I had experienced.
Thanks. My sub is front-ported and resides in a cabinet. No option to change it’s direction.

[RicardoJoa]

Thanks. My sub is front-ported and resides in a cabinet. No option to change it’s direction.
I guess you might want to try peq.

[ahender]

Removed.

[High Fidelity]

For those that have the 2EX V2…

Are you using it for HT, music, or both?

If music, what genres, artists do you listen to?

Are you crossing over with a subwoofer for music?

[ahender]

For those that have the 2EX V2…

Are you using it for HT, music, or both?

If music, what genres, artists do you listen to?

Are you crossing over with a subwoofer for music?

They were in my HT room then moved to my stereo room. 75% newer recorded acoustic and Americana, 25% from my decades old CDs ripped to flac files. The majority of the Americana musicians are female. Lillie Mae, Sierra Hull, I’m With Her, Wailin’ Jennys, etc.

[33na3rd]

For those that have the 2EX V2…

Are you using it for HT, music, or both?

If music, what genres, artists do you listen to?

Are you crossing over with a subwoofer for music?

Music only.
I'm fortunate to have a small dedicated stereo room.

I listen to rock, jazz, blues, and classical.

I don't stream in the stereo room, I not entirely sure why. I run two turntables, and a CDP/DAC combo.

I initially ran a sub (KEF R400b) with my 2EX V2's running full range, and the sub augmenting the bottom end. Basically using the REL Method. It didn't take me long to discover that in my room the 2EX V2's didn't really need the sub.

This is the first time in over 30 years that I'm not using a subwoofer in that room. Some of my previous loudspeakers were much larger, and more expensive than the 2EX V2's. This pleasantly surprised me.

The 2EX V2's have a purity that is addicting, and more than enough power/dynamics for my small room. The sub will be looking for a new home this spring.

[mjpearce023]

For those that have the 2EX V2…

Are you using it for HT, music, or both?

If music, what genres, artists do you listen to?

Are you crossing over with a subwoofer for music?

Both
Mostly R&B and hip hop
Crossed over to 3 hsu 15s at 80hz

[dislocatedday]

I received my Sierra-2 to Sierra-2EX V2 upgrade kits yesterday afternoon. I had been running the original Sierra-2s for over 7 years, and always enjoyed them and had never really considered replacing or upgrading them. However, curiosity got the best of me after reading about the new V2 crossover that was developed using the Klippel NFS, and so I figured I would just go ahead and get the new EX mid-woofers and the updated V2 crossovers.

Despite the positive reviews on the EX upgrades, I'll admit that I was skeptical that I would notice much difference after doing the upgrades. I was prepared to be disappointed. After updating both of my speakers last night, it was the finally the moment of truth as I placed them back on their stands and reconnected the speaker cables. I put some music on, and almost immediately a big smile came across my face. These were noticeably different and improved to my ears compared to the original Sierra 2s, and it was very easy to hear those differences/improvements.

All the things people stated here before about the EX upgrades I noticed. If I had to simplify the improvements in one sentence I would simply state the entire speaker sounds smoother, cleaner, and effortless across its entire frequency range. The upper midrange/lower treble region was the one area where I felt the Sierra 2s might be lacking, but that is much improved now. I also felt like sometimes the Sierra 2s sounded a little bright in the treble as I turned up the volume, but that is no longer the case. I felt like I could keep turning up the volume last night as it never seemed strained in the treble. There is also a bit more warmth with the EXs, but there is no bloated mid bass which I often find with speakers described as "warm".

I did see one person previously mention that they felt like the center image was more stable now, and I noticed that as well. In fact, everything within the soundstage seems even more in its own place or spot now. This goes back to everything sounding cleaner to me. I don't know what factors are contributing to this......I know Dave has indicated there is less distortion now, and the power handling is improved. Maybe these are the reasons I perceive these upgrades as so much cleaner sounding? I never really thought I heard distortion before, but perhaps I was. Regardless I am thrilled with the improvements. I do use two subs with them, so today I am going to play around with different crossover points.

[davef]

Hi , I noticed that in the 100-300 hz range , the LX has much flatter response over the EX . What does this translate sonically and is it something i can EQ boost it on a pair of EX?

Hi Ricardo,

I'm not seeing this, unless you are describing a slight 1dB droop in this range compared to the LX as being much flatter? Differences of 1dB are generally not audible, but of course you can add 1dB of boost in this range (or more) if you prefer.

[RicardoJoa]

Hi Ricardo,

I'm not seeing this, unless you are describing a slight 1dB droop in this range compared to the LX as being much flatter? Differences of 1dB are generally not audible, but of course you can add 1dB of boost in this range (or more) if you prefer.

Thanks Dave for clarification. I sent you an email the end of last year and i hope you got it, regarding ex2 upgrade.

[Natural1]

What is the crossover frequency of the V2?

I searched this thread and the purchase page and I'm not finding it.

[curtis]

What is the crossover frequency of the V2?


I see this question get asked once in a while.
No disrespect to those that ask the question, but does it play a part in your decision to purchase? If so, why(especially given Dave's history)? Or is it just a curiosity question?

[Natural1]

For me it's a curiosity question. I already have the V2s in my office system.

I wanted to play around with some of the techniques here. I've learned a lot from his other videos as well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKeHyT7Xgo

So, I'd like the know the crossover frequency of the V2s as well as the "order" (slopes) of the crossover.

[curtis]

For me it's a curiosity question. I already have the V2s in my office system.

I wanted to play around with some of the techniques here. I've learned a lot from his other videos as well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKeHyT7Xgo

So, I'd like the know the crossover frequency of the V2s as well as the "order" (slopes) of the crossover.
I had a quick look and I would wonder what Dave would say about it. Seems suspect to me.

[Natural1]

I had a quick look and I would wonder what Dave would say about it. Seems suspect to me.

I was thinking the same thing on that one. But for sure his info on general PEQ and multi-sub optimization in other videos has been very informative and fun to play around with.

The one I linked above... yeah I suspect might have some really odd issues associated with it. For me, I just want to experiment and learn what the audible results are, especially since I already have the tools and it costs nothing to see what happens. Good or bad doesn't really matter, you always learn something.

[davef]

For me it's a curiosity question. I already have the V2s in my office system.

I wanted to play around with some of the techniques here. I've learned a lot from his other videos as well...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKeHyT7Xgo

So, I'd like the know the crossover frequency of the V2s as well as the "order" (slopes) of the crossover.

OK - I had a chance to watch this. It is one thing to create an overall room correction frequency response curve or to create a specific house curve, I have no issues with that. It can be fun to play around with this.

However, it appears he is also trying to correct for passive crossover phase shift. I absolutely do not recommend attempting this. This person is making far too many generalizations regarding crossovers and phase, in fact - making any phase adjustments (or rephase as he calls it) will basically completely undo all of the benefits of our NFS optimizations.

That stated, Sierra-2EX V2 acoustic crossover point is at ~3300Hz. These are 4th order asymmetrical acoustic slopes.

[Natural1]

OK - I had a chance to watch this. It is one thing to create an overall room correction frequency response curve or to create a specific house curve, I have no issues with that. It can be fun to play around with this.

However, it appears he is also trying to correct for passive crossover phase shift. I absolutely do not recommend attempting this. This person is making far too many generalizations regarding crossovers and phase, in fact - making any phase adjustments (or rephase as he calls it) will basically completely undo all of the benefits of our NFS optimizations.

That stated, Sierra-2EX V2 acoustic crossover point is at ~3300Hz. These are 4th order asymmetrical acoustic slopes.

Thank you Dave! I'm not surprised to hear that part of the program is a bad idea, very much square peg/round hole.

His knowledge of REW is extensive to say the least, and I have found his videos to be very helpful and I've picked up a lot of good tips with respect to general PEQ design, speaker-to-speaker time alignment, multi-sub alignment, and sub-to-main crossover and time alignment.

I don't run a sub in my office, and currently my Sierra2EX V2s are running on my "pre-V2" set of PEQ filters in Equalizer APO, under 250 Hz only. I'll likely stick with this idea for the V2s. I do want to re-do measurements with the new crossovers and I'm guessing the bass range really hasn't changed with the new crossovers (why would it?), so my old filters are probably still good. I know I have a slight time alignment issue between the 2 speakers and I'll adjust for this in EQ APO once I take measurements. Just haven't had time to look at it yet.

All this stuff is such a huge rabbit hole (with some dead ends), but it is fun for those that like to dig into things. REW itself is truly amazing with all of it's knobs, levers, and switches. I'm surprised it can't make coffee. Maybe I just haven't found that setting :)

[Fantom]

I do want to re-do measurements with the new crossovers and I'm guessing the bass range really hasn't changed with the new crossovers (why would it?), so my old filters are probably still good.

On this topic, the graphs and subjective reviews have stated differences in the lows and highs far from the crossover. The on-axis response has only changed subtly but the off-axis seem to have changed significantly outside of the crossover region. In particular, the estimated in-room response above 5kHz is dramatically different with v2.

Dave, can you explain how the crossover change impacts the low bass and upper treble? And thanks so much for continuing to share your knowledge and experience over the years!

[Natural1]

On this topic, the graphs and subjective reviews have stated differences in the lows and highs far from the crossover. The on-axis response has only changed subtly but the off-axis seem to have changed significantly outside of the crossover region. In particular, the estimated in-room response above 5kHz is dramatically different with v2.

I still haven't gotten back to this yet. When I do I'll try to show some pre and post upgrade data. Should be interesting.

[davef]

On this topic, the graphs and subjective reviews have stated differences in the lows and highs far from the crossover. The on-axis response has only changed subtly but the off-axis seem to have changed significantly outside of the crossover region. In particular, the estimated in-room response above 5kHz is dramatically different with v2.

Dave, can you explain how the crossover change impacts the low bass and upper treble? And thanks so much for continuing to share your knowledge and experience over the years!

Hi Fantom,

I am not exactly sure what you are asking, I have made many posts in this thread discussing the differences between original and V2. There are no differences in the low-end extension between Sierra-2EX and Sierra-2EX V2. With the V2, there is approximately 1.5dB-2dB more midbass energy, and we came up with a different method to integrate the RAAL ribbon with the woofer, this results in better overall directivity. This is the major change from V1 to V2.

If you are asking me precisely how we accomplished this, I am sorry but I am not going to publicly post these details.

[Fantom]

There are no differences in the low-end extension between Sierra-2EX and Sierra-2EX V2. With the V2, there is approximately 1.5dB-2dB more midbass energy, and we came up with a different method to integrate the RAAL ribbon with the woofer, this results in better overall directivity. This is the major change from V1 to V2.

If you are asking me precisely how we accomplished this, I am sorry but I am not going to publicly post these details.

Thanks for the comments! I of course don't expect you to divulge secrets here. I'll rephrase my question.

You say the crossover frequency is around 3300Hz. So I can understand that a crossover change would impact frequencies around 3300Hz plus or minus. What's perhaps not expected is that this leads to a midbass boost and changes to directivity even well above 5kHz. Can you comment on how that works?

I've been enjoying the v2 for awhile now. I've noticed these stated improvements in my main listening position. The largest improvement I've noticed is when sitting at the dining table off to the side of the speakers (fairly open apt layout), which has also been great. I'm just trying to learn more if you are able to speak on the topic without giving away the proprietary recipe. Thanks!

[Mag_Neato]

In case you miss this, here's my latest frequency response graph taken with REW of my Sierra-2EX V2's!

[merrymaid520]

Great looking room response! Running full range no sub?

[davef]

Thanks for the comments! I of course don't expect you to divulge secrets here. I'll rephrase my question.

You say the crossover frequency is around 3300Hz. So I can understand that a crossover change would impact frequencies around 3300Hz plus or minus. What's perhaps not expected is that this leads to a midbass boost and changes to directivity even well above 5kHz. Can you comment on how that works?



When we mention a crossover change, it is the complete crossover network that is changed. A crossover in a speaker is much more than where the response of the woofer and tweeter "cross". Our crossovers contain impedance compensation circuits, padding, equalization, baffle step compensation and there is also the Q and slope "rate" of the high pass and low pass filters.

In the case of Sierra-2EX V2, everything I mentioned above has been changed.

We are able to achieve more midbass by lowering impedance and inductance in this range, and also by better balancing the mids and highs to this midbass frequency range.

Hope this makes sense!

[davef]

In case you miss this, here's my latest frequency response graph taken with REW of my Sierra-2EX V2's!

That is fantastic and does closely correspond with the predicted in-room response of the Sierra-2EX V2.

[Mag_Neato]

Great looking room response! Running full range no sub?
Crossed at 80hz to dual Rythmiks. No EQ above 80hz. Not sure why the bass is rolling off like that. I have a MiniDSP 2x4HD EQ'ing the subs, but I recently changed DACs and now have both subs on isolation devices, so that may have affected things.

[merrymaid520]

Crossed at 80hz to dual Rythmiks. No EQ above 80hz. Not sure why the bass is rolling off like that. I have a MiniDSP 2x4HD EQ'ing the subs, but I recently changed DACs and now have both subs on isolation devices, so that may have affected things.

That’s right! You have dual rythmiks as well:)
How bigs the room? I’m surprised there’s not more low end output. Maybe a setting on the Dac? Above 80hz is impressively flat!!

[Mag_Neato]

That’s right! You have dual rythmiks as well:)
How bigs the room? I’m surprised there’s not more low end output. Maybe a setting on the Dac? Above 80hz is impressively flat!!
There's no setting adjustments for the DAC, it's the onboard section in my Parasound P6. The room is above the garage. 11' wide, angled ceiling to 8', 27' long. The knee walls are about 5' up before transitioning to angled ceiling. My friend who helped me with REW said his system measures flatter down low, using Dirac Live with dual 15" sealed Rythmiks, yet my system sounded better to him in the bass.

[merrymaid520]

There's no setting adjustments for the DAC, it's the onboard section in my Parasound P6. The room is above the garage. 11' wide, angled ceiling to 8', 27' long. The knee walls are about 5' up before transitioning to angled ceiling. My friend who helped me with REW said his system measures flatter down low, using Dirac Live with dual 15" sealed Rythmiks, yet my system sounded better to him in the bass.

I had a P5 and now the P7. Could it be a bass management setting on it? Or maybe it’s just the room…and where your mic was positioned…could be a null.

[Mag_Neato]

I had a P5 and now the P7. Could it be a bass management setting on it? Or maybe it’s just the room…and where your mic was positioned…could be a null.

The MiniDSP is being fed from the sub out with the low pass filter either at 80hz or switched off, can't recall. I will have to dig into the MiniDSP settings again now that I have a working laptop with the software on it. There is definitely a null in the room which is why I added the 2nd sub. I played around with placement and got the 2 subs to sum with an elevated response, then applied a correction curve to knock down the peaks and also applied a rising response from 80 - 20hz of 10db. It measured fine when I did that, but like I said, I've made a few changes since then including isolation platform/footers under the subs. It still sounds great though. As I said, my friend who helped me take the REW measurements uses an Anthem AVM 90 with Dirac Live, has dual 15" sealed high output Rythmiks, and loves how the bass in my system sounds vs his. Go figure?

Correction: His AVM 90 uses ARC Genesis room correction!

[merrymaid520]

The MiniDSP is being fed from the sub out with the low pass filter either at 80hz or switched off, can't recall. I will have to dig into the MiniDSP settings again now that I have a working laptop with the software on it. There is definitely a null in the room which is why I added the 2nd sub. I played around with placement and got the 2 subs to sum with an elevated response, then applied a correction curve to knock down the peaks and also applied a rising response from 80 - 20hz of 10db. It measured fine when I did that, but like I said, I've made a few changes since then including isolation platform/footers under the subs. It still sounds great though. As I said, my friend who helped me take the REW measurements uses an Anthem AVM 90 with Dirac Live, has dual 15" sealed high output Rythmiks, and loves how the bass in my system sounds vs his. Go figure?

Correction: His AVM 90 uses ARC Genesis room correction!

Im not familiar with the miniDSP, I use the Behringer FBD for EQing. Hope you get it worked out! Dual Rythmiks are awesome! I have two setups worth of them and am always impressed each time I fire them up!

[Mag_Neato]

Im not familiar with the miniDSP, I use the Behringer FBD for EQing. Hope you get it worked out! Dual Rythmiks are awesome! I have two setups worth of them and am always impressed each time I fire them up!

I have 2 dual Rythmik systems as well! My living room HT setup has dual front ported LV12's.

[merrymaid520]

I have 2 dual Rythmik systems as well! My living room HT setup has dual front ported LV12's.

Wow! We have very similar tastes! Duals may be overkill, but I sure smile every time a movie plays with any content below 20hz:)

[racrawford65]

Wow! We have very similar tastes! Duals may be overkill, but I sure smile every time a movie plays with any content below 20hz:)

I don't think duals are overkill (dual Rythmik E15HPs in my setup). Also using a miniDSP to EQ/dial them in prior to running ARC Genesis on them to any final touch-ups. Also added some Crowson actuators to enhance tactile feel.

[merrymaid520]

I don't think duals are overkill (dual Rythmik E15HPs in my setup). Also using a miniDSP to EQ/dial them in prior to running ARC Genesis on them to any final touch-ups. Also added some Crowson actuators to enhance tactile feel.

True! It does provide a much better integration and room response! I think the everyday (non audiophile) person would think its overkill...I know folks who visit my place look at my setup and go "why do you need so many speakers and why are they so huge?". LOL!

[MrGuru]

I just ordered the EX to EX2 upgrade package and have a silly question - the current EX crossovers that I will be swapping out - can they be used in another pair of normal S2's that I use in a different setup? I am guessing "probably not" is the answer as that kit has a different woofer to install to get the full EX experience, but I thought'd I'd check. :) Can't wait for the EX2 kit to get here!

Edit: fixed typo.

[racrawford65]

Not sure I understand your question. You'd have EX, not EX2 cross-overs left over. I don't think you can use them in normal S2's as the woofer is different. You may want to see if you can get the old EX woofer (or just upgrade the S2's to EXV2) :)

[MrGuru]

Yes, sorry - typo. I meant using the old EX crossovers in a normal S2.

[racrawford65]

figured that's what you meant. Same amswer as before - likely not due to woofer being different.

[davef]

Yes, sorry - typo. I meant using the old EX crossovers in a normal S2.

Not recommended, the EX crossover is designed to see the EX woofer, not the S2 woofer.

[bkdc]

Just did a Sierra-2 to EX V2 upgrade. Funny findings.

My current Sierra-2’s were sent to me about five years ago as warrantied replacements after one of the original Chinese-manufactured gloss finished cabinets developed a split. The Chinese gloss ones were no longer made so I was offered American-made bamboo cabinets. There was always a slight rattling noise in one speaker but sound quality was never an issue. I figured one of the wires was just tapping on the bracing.

Anyway, I remove the tweeter and woofer and what do I see? An acorn and a few nuts…. I know I didn’t have a squirrel infestation inside my house. I had to guess some critter was thinking about storing away some food and getting in/out through the porthole.

Dave, did you have any squirrel issues some years ago? LOL.

Love the Sierra-2EX V2 upgrade! :)

Ok. Completely unrelated to my above upgrade. I purchased another pair of Sierra-2EX’s off one forum member’s estate last year (he lived in rural Illinois, and I assume the speakers were sitting in his garage for a period of time before they were sent to me) and I finally swapped the crossovers to V2.

What do I see? One speaker contained a few mouse droppings. The other speaker had numerous seeds within it. I guess they do make a perfect rodent hangout.

I could only chuckle and shake my head. Again, I could hear the improvement. It’s amazing what a well designed crossover can do with the identical drivers.

[davef]

Ok. Completely unrelated to my above upgrade. I purchased another pair of Sierra-2EX’s off one forum member’s estate last year (he lived in rural Illinois, and I assume the speakers were sitting in his garage for a period of time before they were sent to me) and I finally swapped the crossovers to V2.

What do I see? One speaker contained a few mouse droppings. The other speaker had numerous seeds within it. I guess they do make a perfect rodent hangout.

I could only chuckle and shake my head. Again, I could hear the improvement. It’s amazing what a well designed crossover can do with the identical drivers.

Ha - that's funny!

We recently performed an ELX upgrade on a pair of towers for a customer. During testing and moving the speaker around, I heard some noise that concerned me. We couldn't find the issue until we took the woofers back out and then Joe reached into the bottom of the cabinet where the port tube is and found 3 little foam balls. They looked like the small balls some nerf guns shoot. I believe we returned these to the customer :)

[Nautrachkfriend]

I have owned the Sierra 1, 2, 2EX, LX, and now the 2EX V2. (All fantastic in their own ways)

But WOW! The Sierra 2EX V2 is just sublime. I listen to 60-70s rock, blues, bluegrass, country, jazz, classical, some newer pop, electronic, and metal. The 2EX V2’s really knock all of these genres out of the park. Usually I can get a speaker happy with a few genres but not ALL genres! Truly just enjoying music fatigue free.

It is incredible how the RAAL ribbon has all the detail without the harshness. The 2EX V2 blending of the RAAL ribbon and woofer is seriously faultless. It almost feels like a coaxial speaker, that’s how awesome the blend is.

I recently attended an orchestral performance here in MN because I was really curious how well the 2EX V2 would compare to a real performance. Now obviously the sheer visceral nature of a live orchestra will not be replicated by any speaker. BUT, the tonality and air the 2EX V2 displays was about as close as I can imagine a speaker getting. I could count way more similarities than dissimilarities which is simply awesome!

My speaker history spans outside of Ascend Acoustics. Previous speakers owned include floorstanders and bookshelf speakers ranging from $2,000-$15,000. The 2EX V2 is competitive with all of them and seriously one of my favorites EVER. Obviously the 2EX V2 will not have the vast sonic size of say a Magnepan 3.7i or the ultra low bass of some other floorstanders, but count me 110% pleased.

Dave, you’ve got yourself a winner in the Sierra 2EX V2. The addition of the Klippel system and your expertise have seriously transformed this speaker. Well done, glad to benefit from your outstanding work.

For anyone curious my current system: Sierra 2EX V2 on 24in stands, McIntosh MC312, Audio Research LS-28, Chord Qutest, Raspberry Pi streaming from Roon/Tidal. Full Gik Acoustics treatments.

[High Fidelity]

@Nautrachkfriend

What do you use, or did you use, the LX for? If music, which genres, artists?

[sliang]

I have owned the Sierra 1, 2, 2EX, LX, and now the 2EX V2. (All fantastic in their own ways)

But WOW! The Sierra 2EX V2 is just sublime. I listen to 60-70s rock, blues, bluegrass, country, jazz, classical, some newer pop, electronic, and metal. The 2EX V2Â’s really knock all of these genres out of the park. Usually I can get a speaker happy with a few genres but not ALL genres! Truly just enjoying music fatigue free.

It is incredible how the RAAL ribbon has all the detail without the harshness. The 2EX V2 blending of the RAAL ribbon and woofer is seriously faultless. It almost feels like a coaxial speaker, thatÂ’s how awesome the blend is.

I recently attended an orchestral performance here in MN because I was really curious how well the 2EX V2 would compare to a real performance. Now obviously the sheer visceral nature of a live orchestra will not be replicated by any speaker. BUT, the tonality and air the 2EX V2 displays was about as close as I can imagine a speaker getting. I could count way more similarities than dissimilarities which is simply awesome!

My speaker history spans outside of Ascend Acoustics. Previous speakers owned include floorstanders and bookshelf speakers ranging from $2,000-$15,000. The 2EX V2 is competitive with all of them and seriously one of my favorites EVER. Obviously the 2EX V2 will not have the vast sonic size of say a Magnepan 3.7i or the ultra low bass of some other floorstanders, but count me 110% pleased.

Dave, youÂ’ve got yourself a winner in the Sierra 2EX V2. The addition of the Klippel system and your expertise have seriously transformed this speaker. Well done, glad to benefit from your outstanding work.

For anyone curious my current system: Sierra 2EX V2 on 24in stands, McIntosh MC312, Audio Research LS-28, Chord Qutest, Raspberry Pi streaming from Roon/Tidal. Full Gik Acoustics treatments.

I agree that the 2EX V2s do a great job reproducing a classical symphony performance. I have a number of SACDs from the Pittsburgh Symphony that I listen to with my 2EX V2 speakers. The Pittsburgh Symphony has got a number of Grammy nominations over the years for their releases and won one back in 2018. Plus, they are recorded in Heinz Hall where they have their performances. Since I live in Pittsburgh, unlike music recorded in a studio or venue I have not been to, I can make a direct comparison between what I get at home and the live performance. With these speakers, and I have gone through a number over the years, I definitely get as close as I am likely to get replicating a live performance in my home.

[Nautrachkfriend]

@Nautrachkfriend

What do you use, or did you use, the LX for? If music, which genres, artists?

I used the LX in the same spot my 2EX V2's are in now. 100% music, 2 channel, same genres as specified before. I ended up swapping them for the 2EX V2 because the ribbon tweeter just can't be beat. I'd also give the edge in midrange clarity to the 2EX V2.

The biggest strength of the LX was the bass region, it sounds like a full tower. I did also like that you could move around in the room and the sound stayed quite consistent. For the record it was the first metal dome tweeter I have ever enjoyed, which is a fantastic feat. I have experienced Beryllium and Diamond domes too.

[33na3rd]

Still loving my Sierra-2EX's with the V2 upgrade! I am still astounded by how much further I can hear into the recording with the V2 crossover. Thanks Dave!

2681

[hometheater]

I continue to be amazed at how good the Sierra-2EX V2 sounds as well. IMO, the V2 upgrade put these speakers in another league. The reproduction of the music I listen to on it seems absolutely perfect. I can't imagine better sound coming out of a speaker than this.

I know Ascend Acoustics has more expensive speakers in the ELX Towers but it's hard for me to fanthom how much better they can be. I'm sure they have better bass and can play louder but I dont think those aspects are critical to my listening habits.

BTW, when I upgraded to the V2s, I also limited the Audyssey frequency range to below 300 hz. This completely smoothed out the sound. I never realized it but I think Audyssey adds a harshness to the sound by flattening out the FR. With the NFS, it's completely unnecessary to use room EQ above 300-400 Hz on these speakers. This also really improved on the SQ for me.

[SunByrne]

I know Ascend Acoustics has more expensive speakers in the ELX Towers but it's hard for me to fanthom how much better they can be. I'm sure they have better bass and can play louder but I dont think those aspects are critical to my listening habits.

Midrange. Even the "old" V1 Towers had better midrange than the 2EXs. I'm sure the ELXs are stunning in that regard.

[N Boros]

Midrange. Even the "old" V1 Towers had better midrange than the 2EXs. I'm sure the ELXs are stunning in that regard.

Really? I haven't A/Bed them. And I only the original Sierra 2's that I plan to do the EX V2 upgrade on soon. But, the ELX towers switched out the V1 midrange to the woofer in the 2EXs, because Dave found it had nearly perfect textbook directivity. He then implemented the LX woofers for the bass region, because that is where they shine. Yes the towers can have a much better ribbon tweeter too, but the much of the midrange in the EX V2 is handled by the woofer, which he thought would be perfect for the dedicated midrange driver in the ELX tower. Again I can't say for certain because I haven't A/Bed the 3 speakers you are talking about, but just in terms of the drivers used in the various speakers I'm not so sure how that would be true.

[racrawford65]

I have S2s as my surrounds (now, used to be my mains). RAAL ELX Towers now my mains (upgraded from V1). Not heard the upgraded S2 EX. Midrange in the ELX Towers is excellent- much better than the v1 and the S2.

I think Sunbyrne is probably right despite the driver comparison. Midrange is dedicated in the Tower so doesn’t have to handle lower bass. I assume the x-over designs also impact.

[Robert]

Midrange. Even the "old" V1 Towers had better midrange than the 2EXs. I'm sure the ELXs are stunning in that regard.

I would agree with this statement regarding the v1 towers and original 2 EX speakers. Both are good speakers, but the v1 towers had a significant edge in the midrange department with the dedicated driver. If memory serves me right, as one reviewer here put it, you went from sitting a few rows back with the 2EX to being in the front row with the towers.

I'm prepping for the ELX tower upgrade this weekend. Not sure what to expect moving from the v1 towers, but maybe it will be like rocking out on the actual stage with the ELX as opposed to "just" the front row. :)

[hometheater]

Here was the statement from Dave in the first post of the "We save the best for last thread".

"With our newer and NFS optimized EX and LX speakers, we have come very close to matching the performance of our towers. Both the EXv2 and LX have surpassed the towers in certain very specific performance characteristics, and this was our goal. With the LX, we surpassed the towers in overall dynamics, bass extension and power handling – with the EXv2, directivity and midrange accuracy and detail."

So the EXv2 appears to have a better midrange than the V1 tower.

Anyway, for certain listening preferences such as classical or acoustical music, and not at extremely high volumes, is the EXv2 pretty close to the ELX Towers?

[N Boros]

Here was the statement from Dave in the first post of the "We save the best for last thread".

"With our newer and NFS optimized EX and LX speakers, we have come very close to matching the performance of our towers. Both the EXv2 and LX have surpassed the towers in certain very specific performance characteristics, and this was our goal. With the LX, we surpassed the towers in overall dynamics, bass extension and power handling – with the EXv2, directivity and midrange accuracy and detail."

So the EXv2 appears to have a better midrange than the V1 tower.

Anyway, for certain listening preferences such as classical or acoustical music, and not at extremely high volumes, is the EXv2 pretty close to the ELX Towers?

This is purely a guess as I have neither speakers. My mains are Sierra 2s that I really want to up grade to EX V2 soon. The better tweeter and LX woofers in the tower will change the crossover, where the EX woofer can probably eek out better midrange detail. How noticeable? Subtle or night and day? Only people who have both speakers and have critically listened to both can tell. I’m sure Dave could tell you.

[billy p]

I would also add the ELX using the 70-20 allows for even lower crossover point...which would free up further the mid range in a already dedicated midrange design...iirc...the original tower had a equal or slight advantage vs. S2EX....I hasten to say the ELX has a significant advantage...lower volume maybe...much closer.

[davef]

Still loving my Sierra-2EX's with the V2 upgrade! I am still astounded by how much further I can hear into the recording with the V2 crossover. Thanks Dave!

2681


I continue to be amazed at how good the Sierra-2EX V2 sounds as well. IMO, the V2 upgrade put these speakers in another league. The reproduction of the music I listen to on it seems absolutely perfect. I can't imagine better sound coming out of a speaker than this.

I know Ascend Acoustics has more expensive speakers in the ELX Towers but it's hard for me to fanthom how much better they can be. I'm sure they have better bass and can play louder but I dont think those aspects are critical to my listening habits.

BTW, when I upgraded to the V2s, I also limited the Audyssey frequency range to below 300 hz. This completely smoothed out the sound. I never realized it but I think Audyssey adds a harshness to the sound by flattening out the FR. With the NFS, it's completely unnecessary to use room EQ above 300-400 Hz on these speakers. This also really improved on the SQ for me.

So happy to hear this, thank you. And I agree, with our NFS optimized line of speakers, it is likely best to avoid all room EQ above the room's transition frequency.

From a technical / objective standpoint, yes - the ELX do provide performance improvements across the board, in mids and the highs.

From the standpoint of the midrange, the ELX midwoofer is not tasked with reproducing bass frequencies that do interfere with the reproduction of mid frequencies (major reduction in IM distortion). Also, the midwoofer is housed in its own critically damped sealed chamber that completely absorbs backwave radiation. This can not be done in the Sierra-2EXV2 as there wouldn't be much output below 100Hz. Additionally, with the big RAAL (70-20xram), we are able to cross lower so much of the upper midrange response is handled by the RAAL.

Regarding the highs, the RAAL 70-20xram is the better sounding tweeter compared to the RAAL 64-10X, it is smoother and more transparent, has a more linear polar response and lower distortion.

We do have a pair of ELX Ribbon Towers and Sierra-2EXv2 in our demo room. When my time frees up, I think I will do some critical A/B comparisons using a high crossover point to eliminate the major bass advantage the ELX Tower has and then share my thoughts on this.

[theophile]

...Regarding the highs, the RAAL 70-20xram is the better sounding tweeter compared to the RAAL 64-10X, it is smoother and more transparent, has a more linear polar response and lower distortion.

We do have a pair of ELX Ribbon Towers and Sierra-2EXv2 in our demo room. When my time frees up, I think I will do some critical A/B comparisons using a high crossover point to eliminate the major bass advantage the ELX Tower has and then share my thoughts on this.

This comparison will be very informative, Dave. Looking forward to your comments!! :cool:

Ted

[novaduckfan1]

I used the LX in the same spot my 2EX V2's are in now. 100% music, 2 channel, same genres as specified before. I ended up swapping them for the 2EX V2 because the ribbon tweeter just can't be beat. I'd also give the edge in midrange clarity to the 2EX V2.

The biggest strength of the LX was the bass region, it sounds like a full tower. I did also like that you could move around in the room and the sound stayed quite consistent. For the record it was the first metal dome tweeter I have ever enjoyed, which is a fantastic feat. I have experienced Beryllium and Diamond domes too.

Hey Nautrachkfriend and sliang - Heading over to this forum to say thank you for sharing your thoughts on the 2EXv2s. As much as I enjoy classical music, your comments were key in making my final decision to purchase these instead of the LXs. In fact, I just attended Beethoven's 9th at the Kennedy Center last Friday and have compared to my home system using the recording of the Pittsburg Symphony Orchestra directed by Manfred Honeck. Of course the live version in a huge venue is on another level, but I still am amazed at how close I can get to that experience using the 2EXv2s (with a sub).

Also, I'd be interested to know more about your set-ups. Are you using one or more subwoofers? If so, what crossover point are you using? As of today I am using 60Hz and letting a single SVS 2000 Pro cover all frequencies below that point. It sounds fantastic! Later this summer I'll purchase a second 2000 Pro and maybe experiment with 80 Hz. Also, what amplifiers are you using?

[sliang]

Hey Nautrachkfriend and sliang - Heading over to this forum to say thank you for sharing your thoughts on the 2EXv2s. As much as I enjoy classical music, your comments were key in making my final decision to purchase these instead of the LXs. In fact, I just attended Beethoven's 9th at the Kennedy Center last Friday and have compared to my home system using the recording of the Pittsburg Symphony Orchestra directed by Manfred Honeck. Of course the live version in a huge venue is on another level, but I still am amazed at how close I can get to that experience using the 2EXv2s (with a sub).

Also, I'd be interested to know more about your set-ups. Are you using one or more subwoofers? If so, what crossover point are you using? As of today I am using 60Hz and letting a single SVS 2000 Pro cover all frequencies below that point. It sounds fantastic! Later this summer I'll purchase a second 2000 Pro and maybe experiment with 80 Hz. Also, what amplifiers are you using?

Glad I could help you with your purchase decision.

My set up consists of a Marantz NR 1710 and one SVS PB 2000 Pro subwoofer. I use Audyssey in my AVR (only bass frequencies up to 250 Hz) since, along with some bass traps, that is the only way to clean up the bass due to the configuration of my room. I cross over to my pair of 2EX speakers at 80 Hz. While my AVR only puts out 50 watts per channel, it is plenty of power for me sit since I only sit about 7 feet away and I am only running a 2.1 set up. Also, I am not running my system very loud for music (70 to 80 dB for classical, a little louder for rock).

[Qman]

Quick question:
With the S2EX V2, Is there any more to making one a "Center" than simply rotating the tweeter 90 degrees?
I'm looking to lay flat one of my front L+R speakers to fit better with my new TV.
Will dispersion be significantly affected? And, If i lay one flat, should the other be layed flat to make everything equal?

Thanks in Advance!

[Mag_Neato]

Quick question:
With the S2EX V2, Is there any more to making one a "Center" than simply rotating the tweeter 90 degrees?
I'm looking to lay flat one of my front L+R speakers to fit better with my new TV.
Will dispersion be significantly affected? And, If i lay one flat, should the other be layed flat to make everything equal?

Thanks in Advance!

That is all you would need to do in order to lay it horizontally. I would do it to both speakers just so they are identical, but if you need to have one vertical it is likely fine. Also, if you order a center version directly from Ascend it would come with a full length grill to cover the entire baffle.

[davef]

Quick question:
With the S2EX V2, Is there any more to making one a "Center" than simply rotating the tweeter 90 degrees?
I'm looking to lay flat one of my front L+R speakers to fit better with my new TV.
Will dispersion be significantly affected? And, If i lay one flat, should the other be layed flat to make everything equal?

Thanks in Advance!


I don't recommend placing one Sierra-2EXv2 horizontally with its mate remaining vertical. This is going to dramatically throw off imaging.

I would either keep them both vertical or convert both to horizontal orientation.

Hope this helps!

[Qman]

Thanks for the input.

[davef]

We do have a pair of ELX Ribbon Towers and Sierra-2EXv2 in our demo room. When my time frees up, I think I will do some critical A/B comparisons using a high crossover point to eliminate the major bass advantage the ELX Tower has and then share my thoughts on this.

I wanted to get my thoughts down on this before I end up losing my page of scribbled notes lol.

OK - I ended up spending a good 3 hours comparing our ELX Ribbon Towers and Sierra-2EXv2 with level matched direct A/B switching using a 100Hz high pass filter. Obviously, there is no comparison between these 2 speakers when it comes to bass, and there shouldn't be. ELX is a near full range speaker, flat to 25Hz in our demo room!

The biggest surprise to me was the difference in the highs. It has been a while since I compared our RAAL 70-20xram with the RAAL 64-10x. What was most noticeable was the much smoother sound of the 70-20 combined with far better instrument separation with complex passages. I expected this, but I was surprised at how noticeable the differences were. Add to this a less metallic / more natural sound from the 70-20. I have said this many times, but I believe the 70-20xram to simply be one of (if not) THE best sounding tweeter in the world today. It is just so accurate and refined, you forget you are actually listening to a tweeter.

Regarding this mids, as expected - the ELX mids are significantly lusher, warmer - more spacious sounding, with an effortless character to complex male and female vocals. S2EXv2 sounded thinner, with less depth and, perhaps, just a slight edginess to them compared to the ELX.

The differences between these 2 great speakers are indeed quite noticeable, even taking away the dramatic differences in bass and dynamics. ELX are simply in a different league in all aspects of performance.

I hope this helps!

[Beave]

Interesting. That brings up something I've been idly thinking about: Have you designed a Klippel-optimized bookshelf speaker with the EX midwoofer and the 70-20xram tweeter? It would cost a lot more than the current S2EXv2, but there may be a market for it.

Along those lines, I was thinking about different combinations of woofers and tweeters that you could use for different bookshelf speakers. I figure the Titan woofer and the 64-10 is a no-go due to incompatible crossover needs, but you could do a Titan woofer with the 70-20 RAAL, or maybe the EX woofer with the Titan tweeter?

Again, just idle thoughts when I can't sleep at night! :-)

[davef]

Interesting. That brings up something I've been idly thinking about: Have you designed a Klippel-optimized bookshelf speaker with the EX midwoofer and the 70-20xram tweeter? It would cost a lot more than the current S2EXv2, but there may be a market for it.

Along those lines, I was thinking about different combinations of woofers and tweeters that you could use for different bookshelf speakers. I figure the Titan woofer and the 64-10 is a no-go due to incompatible crossover needs, but you could do a Titan woofer with the 70-20 RAAL, or maybe the EX woofer with the Titan tweeter?

Again, just idle thoughts when I can't sleep at night! :-)

We have made many custom bookshelf speakers with the 70-20xram, with various woofers. It is a considerable amount of work for us due to the massive depth of the 70-20 ribbon as it interferes with the port tube and requires different internal tweeter cutouts. It is too much work for us right now, ideally - we would need to design a new cabinet. The 70-20 would work well with the Titan woofer or the EX woofer.


or maybe the EX woofer with the Titan tweeter?

Hadn't even thought about that combination, pricing would be higher compared to the LX and other than a few dB higher sensitivity, I am unsure if it would outperform the standard LX. I might have to design a proto just to see...

Ahh - so many projects, so little time :)

[Beave]

Thanks! Good info there. I keep forgetting the 70-20 is so much deeper and that it would get in the way of the port tube in the bookshelf cabinet!

As for the EX woofer with the Titan tweeter, I assume you'd gain a bit of sensitivity but lose some bass extension as the biggest differences?

Well, get to work! You replied at 1:30AM so obviously you're not busy or anything! :p

[novaduckfan1]

We have made many custom bookshelf speakers with the 70-20xram, with various woofers. It is a considerable amount of work for us due to the massive depth of the 70-20 ribbon as it interferes with the port tube and requires different internal tweeter cutouts. It is too much work for us right now, ideally - we would need to design a new cabinet. The 70-20 would work well with the Titan woofer or the EX woofer.
Hadn't even thought about that combination, pricing would be higher compared to the LX and other than a few dB higher sensitivity, I am unsure if it would outperform the standard LX. I might have to design a proto just to see...

Ahh - so many projects, so little time :)

Dave: If you decide to explore any of these options (very excited if you do decide to pursue these!), one research question I'd humbly suggest would be an analysis (using Klippel measurements and actual music in your dedicated listening room) comparing the 70-20 with EX woofer vs. 70-20 with LX woofer. I'd be keenly interested in your assessment of the midrange and high frequency integration of both prototypes using the high-pass filter at 100 Hz that you used for your analysis comparing to the ELX RAAL with the 2EXv2. Meanwhile...back to enjoying my 2EXv2s!!

[davef]

Thanks! Good info there. I keep forgetting the 70-20 is so much deeper and that it would get in the way of the port tube in the bookshelf cabinet!

As for the EX woofer with the Titan tweeter, I assume you'd gain a bit of sensitivity but lose some bass extension as the biggest differences?

Well, get to work! You replied at 1:30AM so obviously you're not busy or anything! :p

Done! ...Added to my infinitely long todo list :)


Dave: If you decide to explore any of these options (very excited if you do decide to pursue these!), one research question I'd humbly suggest would be an analysis (using Klippel measurements and actual music in your dedicated listening room) comparing the 70-20 with EX woofer vs. 70-20 with LX woofer. I'd be keenly interested in your assessment of the midrange and high frequency integration of both prototypes using the high-pass filter at 100 Hz that you used for your analysis comparing to the ELX RAAL with the 2EXv2. Meanwhile...back to enjoying my 2EXv2s!!

I would expect slightly better directivity with the 70-20 and EX woofer compared to the 70-20 and LX woofer, at the sacrifice of quite a bit of deep bass and midbass punch.

[novaduckfan1]

Dave - thanks for the quick assessment. I think I understand. I was assuming that deep bass would be taken out of the equation with the high-pass filter at 100 Hz, because clearly the LX is far better in that area. With highs being very close if not the same, if I have this right, the key difference ultimately would be directivity vs. mid-bass (above 100 hz) punch. Trying to wrap my mind around this difference given my own direct experience with the excellent midbass of the 2EXv2. :cool:

[davef]

Dave - thanks for the quick assessment. I think I understand. I was assuming that deep bass would be taken out of the equation with the high-pass filter at 100 Hz, because clearly the LX is far better in that area. With highs being very close if not the same, if I have this right, the key difference ultimately would be directivity vs. mid-bass (above 100 hz) punch. Trying to wrap my mind around this difference given my own direct experience with the excellent midbass of the 2EXv2. :cool:

My comparison with the 100Hz high pass enabled was between ELX Ribbon Towers and Sierra-2EXv2. However we had a listening session at the office maybe a year ago and we were specifically comparing LX to Sierra-2EX, and even with a 100Hz high pass, differences in midbass and overall fullness were clearly audible.

[novaduckfan1]

My comparison with the 100Hz high pass enabled was between ELX Ribbon Towers and Sierra-2EXv2. However we had a listening session at the office maybe a year ago and we were specifically comparing LX to Sierra-2EX, and even with a 100Hz high pass, differences in midbass and overall fullness were clearly audible.

Very clear: LX woofer/70-20 combination is superior not only in deep bass but also in the mid-bass and overall fullness above 100Hz. Although I have dual sealed subs that are already very well integrated with EXv2 to meet my requirements for frequencies below that threshold, given my music preferences the LX woofer has some key features that I would greatly appreciate. Your candor, attention to detail and accessibility to customers is first rate. Thank you for this information - it's very helpful in thinking longer term about options.

[alkilpatrick1]

I did the Sierra 2 upgrade to EX in September 2020 which was a substantial upgrade. Circling back now I see there is a new upgrade to the V2 at $135.00 each. So do you guys think this is a worthwhile upgrade for the cost and effort involved?

[MrGuru]

I took the same upgrade path as you (S2 to EX) and decided to also get the V2 upgrade kits, and couldn't be happier. Now I'm deciding on the Horizon ELX upgrade kits..

[racrawford65]

For the Horizon, as center is most important for movies (IMO) and it's not much more work, I'd go for the full ELX kit (cross-over + drivers), not just the cross-over, if I were you. FWIW, that's what I did with my Horizon (plus my Towers), so all ELX across the front.

[MrGuru]

For the Horizon, as center is most important for movies (IMO) and it's not much more work, I'd go for the full ELX kit (cross-over + drivers), not just the cross-over, if I were you. FWIW, that's what I did with my Horizon (plus my Towers), so all ELX across the front.

The more I think on it, the more I think I want to do it. I have zero experience soldering though, and that's a little worrying to me. The other parts I feel like I can do no problem.

[racrawford65]

I did my three speakers with no soldering experience at all... except I did practice once on an old Luna Duo to Duo v2 crossover. Just get a decent soldering gun (if you don't have one), heat up the solder pad and pull the wire out one at a time, solder in the new cross-over wires (again, I heated the pads and touched the solder to it). I also positioned the cross-over on the cabinet so that the new wire was held in place whilst soldering.

This is the one I got. As I recall, it's also the one Dave recommended.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01712N5C4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[alkilpatrick1]

I took the same upgrade path as you (S2 to EX) and decided to also get the V2 upgrade kits, and couldn't be happier. Now I'm deciding on the Horizon ELX upgrade kits..

Thanks, I have them in my cart. I just ned to pull the trigger.

[racrawford65]

Pull the trigger :-).

I've got the same upgrade in my plans - S2 to S2EXv2 - for mine (being used as surrounds). Just need to save up (or pause the construction on our farm in Brazil or get my wife to stop buying shoes & clothes :-))

[racrawford65]

Placed my order for S2 to S2EXv2 upgrade kits today. ;)

[billy p]

Placed my order for S2 to S2EXv2 upgrade kits today. ;)

Nice....what pushed you over the edge...since the S2 are surrounds?

[racrawford65]

Figured I'd do it so they are the latest & greatest...plus decided to get something for me since my wife treated herself to shoes, clothes, and purses this month :D