L/R Speaker Upgrade $2k: Needing a Push to Help Me Choose

[edgeh2o]

I've had my Sierra-1 L/R for probably 12 years. I love them, they're super smooth, slightly laid back, inoffensive, slightly warm, and very forgiving. But I moved my setup to a larger room and I'd like something with greater dynamics (The S1 will get moved to my computer/office room). I get upgraditis every couple years but I always chicken out because I'm worried I wont like whatever I buy as much. So I've come to farm your input again :)


L/R Budget: $2000
Receiver: Denon X3500
Center: Emotiva C2+
Surrounds: Ascend HTM 200-SE
Sub: TBD
Display: 75" Sony 900H
Distance from my ears to the display: ~9-10ft
Listening volume at that distance for music: 75-80dB
Music genres: Synthwave, alternative-rock, metal, witch house, trip-hop, electronic
Signature preference: liquid smooth mids/treble, forgiving, musical, rich/sweet, full, dynamic, non-fatiguing
Dislikes: bright, forward, analytical, harsh, thin, edgy treble


I know we all have a slight bias for Ascend speakers, but these are the options I've been considering so far:

1. Revel F36 $1550: I auditioned the F16 from Crutchfield for a bit and really liked it. Seemed to have more clarity than my Sierra-1, though less bass. The F16 didn't quite fill my room but I wanted to get a sense of the sound signature. I've read a lot of comments like ""ear bleeding / screaming / bright / unforgiving / lean" though when the F36 comes to metal/rock/synthwave music (for Audioslave - Like a Stone, for example). So I'm of course scared of trying it now (I unfortunately didn't test the F16 for much rock when I had them).

2. Wharfedale EVO 4.4 $2000: I auditioned the EVO 4.2 from Crutchfield too. Liked it a lot, but found it a tad dark/intimate/veiled and not as "free" or immersive when rocking out as the F16 or Sierra-1. Definitely non-fatiguing though. But I'm hesitant to dive into getting the towers because of these concerns.

3. Revel M106 $2000: I've read it has a much more smoother/refined sound compared to the F16 but it's been difficult to find direct comparisons. And it's still a pair of bookshelf speakers for $2000 which seems kind of expensive. Would love to read more about it though.

4. Ascend Sierra-2EX ~$1600: Since it's announcement/release, I've been reading as much as I can about it, notably because it's been described as more rich/warm compared to the Sierra-2. But I still see some accounts of it being a bit bright (though still very non-fatiguing), sounding a bit lean for metal/synthwave, and not being super forgiving due to no treble roll-off unlike some soft-dome speakers. I'm still completely engrossed by them, but they're still bookshelf speakers - will they give me the increase in dynamics that I want? And if I found them not ideal for the music I like, return shipping from Fresno would hurt a tad.

That's kind of where I am at the moment. Anyone have any comments on the new Polk Reserve towers, Aperion towers, comparable Dynaudio bookshelfs, BMRs, or anything else? I've largely eliminated the likes of KEF, Monitor Audio, SVS, B&W, Dali, Focal, etc because it seems like those have a more trebly-forward sound or are on the brighter side of neutral.

[theophile]

EH,

After reviewing Your Preferences/Dislikes list, if you liked the Sierra-1's as mains before, believe you will LOVE the Sierra-2EX's!!! IMHO, they Well Exceed the sonic prowess that the S-1 is known for!

Of door #1-#3, I've heard the Revel M106...nice speakers but to my ears, they are no competition to the Sierra-2EX, which easily compete with very competent Retail Monitors in the market place that are 4X+ the asking price of the S-2EX! :cool:

You probably have but if not, review the Sierra-2EX Verified-User (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?29-Verified-User-Reviews) thread reviews...plenty of solid testimonials that may assist your selection!!!

Ted

[racrawford65]

If you aren't set on moving the S1's to the computer room/office, maybe just upgrade the S1's to S2EX? The kits are 538/each, so probably around 1100 with shipping. That leaves 900 for a sub (look at the Rythmiks - very musical and clean bass - which one depends on your room size). Then maybe pick up a pair of HTM200's for the computer room/office if you need new speakers for there.

[edgeh2o]

theophile - good to hear about the M106. I definitely think the Sierra-2EX is the only bookshelf I'd consider at this point. I've never had towers though, or even listened to music on towers, so that's what I'm definitely wrestling with, but sonic signature is still my top priority.

racrawford - I've thought about the upgrade kit since it was announced but I love the S1 so much that I def want to keep them in some form, either in my office or in my bedroom. For the sub, it will def be between Rythmik and PSA.

[ahender]

I've had my Sierra-1 L/R for probably 12 years. I love them, they're super smooth, slightly laid back, inoffensive, slightly warm, and very forgiving. But I moved my setup to a larger room and I'd like something with greater dynamics (The S1 will get moved to my computer/office room). I get upgraditis every couple years but I always chicken out because I'm worried I wont like whatever I buy as much. So I've come to farm your input again :)


L/R Budget: $2000
Receiver: Denon X3500
Center: Emotiva C2+
Surrounds: Ascend HTM 200-SE
Sub: TBD
Display: 75" Sony 900H
Distance from my ears to the display: ~9-10ft
Listening volume at that distance for music: 75-80dB
Music genres: Synthwave, alternative-rock, metal, witch house, trip-hop, electronic
Signature preference: liquid smooth mids/treble, forgiving, musical, rich/sweet, full, dynamic, non-fatiguing
Dislikes: bright, forward, analytical, harsh, thin, edgy treble


I know we all have a slight bias for Ascend speakers, but these are the options I've been considering so far:

I have the 2EXs and BMRs. I also have the Denon X3500. I think the BMRs sound better but the difference is not that great. Most of the difference is due to BMR being a 3-way speaker. If smaller size matters, the BMR is ~5-1/2” taller. The 2EXs have a warranty. Ascend customer service is exceptional. There is no warranty mentioned on the BMR website. It would also be April before it is available if ordered now. With all that said, I will never sell the 2EXs.

[edgeh2o]

I have the 2EXs and BMRs. I also have the Denon X3500. I think the BMRs sound better but the difference is not that great. Most of the difference is due to BMR being a 3-way speaker. If smaller size matters, the BMR is ~5-1/2” taller. The 2EXs have a warranty. Ascend customer service is exceptional. There is no warranty mentioned on the BMR website. It would also be April before it is available if ordered now. With all that said, I will never sell the 2EXs.

The larger size wouldn't bother me, though it wouldn't look as seamless as the 2EX on my Ascend speaker stands. Nor would the wait time, I feel like this has been a 5 year decision in the making for me as it is. As far as treble smoothness and overall 'sweetness' to the sound goes, how do they compare?

I've started going back reading more Sierra-2/Sierra-2EX vs Ascend Towers (without RAAL for budget-purposes) comparisons. My concern with the NrT tweeter (and the reason why I never did the NrT upgrade for the Sierra-1) is the increased brightness of it. I wonder though with the towers having that dedicated midrange, if the NrT tweeter would be less bright as it would be playing a more narrow bandwidth verses the Sierra-1 w/ NrT upgrade. I also wonder what the Ascend Tower would be like with the Sierra-1 original tweeter.

The Wharfedale EVO just sounded a bit smeared and veiled, but I did appreciate the nonfatiguing sound. I was worried about the Revel M series with the metal tweeter, but I unfortunately never tested much rock/alternative music on it as I got busy with other things during the time I had it. Just really trying to make this next decision "the one".

[Ascend0577]

The larger size wouldn't bother me, though it wouldn't look as seamless as the 2EX on my Ascend speaker stands. Nor would the wait time, I feel like this has been a 5 year decision in the making for me as it is. As far as treble smoothness and overall 'sweetness' to the sound goes, how do they compare?

I've started going back reading more Sierra-2/Sierra-2EX vs Ascend Towers (without RAAL for budget-purposes) comparisons. My concern with the NrT tweeter (and the reason why I never did the NrT upgrade for the Sierra-1) is the increased brightness of it. I wonder though with the towers having that dedicated midrange, if the NrT tweeter would be less bright as it would be playing a more narrow bandwidth verses the Sierra-1 w/ NrT upgrade. I also wonder what the Ascend Tower would be like with the Sierra-1 original tweeter.

The Wharfedale EVO just sounded a bit smeared and veiled, but I did appreciate the nonfatiguing sound. I was worried about the Revel M series with the metal tweeter, but I unfortunately never tested much rock/alternative music on it as I got busy with other things during the time I had it. Just really trying to make this next decision "the one".

Edgeh2o,

You may want to check Dave F.'s comments that start in the second paragraph of post #7 for http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5951-Downgrading-to-the-NrT-towers. He goes through the comparative sound signatures of the Sierra-1 NrT, Sierra-2, and the Ribbon/Dome towers (since this is from 2015, the Sierra-2EX was not out yet).

Ascend0577

[edgeh2o]

Edgeh2o,

You may want to check Dave F.'s comments that start in the second paragraph of post #7 for http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5951-Downgrading-to-the-NrT-towers. He goes through the comparative sound signatures of the Sierra-1 NrT, Sierra-2, and the Ribbon/Dome towers (since this is from 2015, the Sierra-2EX was not out yet).

Ascend0577

Thanks! That was enjoyable to read. If the Towers are between the S1-NrT and S2 in terms of forwardness... I wonder if the S2EX would be between the S2 and original S1, since Dave has said the S2EX is more warm and sweet than the S2.

I probably look at the 2EX and RAAL Tower product pages every other day haha. And I check the B-Stock listing regularly. I think it would be irresponsible of me to buy the RAAL Towers, though it has been a while since I made a large purchase for myself. I actually wonder if I'd prefer the sound signature...the extra sweetness/warmth of the S2EX over the Towers. I just worry if the S2EX would be noticeably more dynamic/larger sounding than my current S1.

I think in terms of budget, it's between the S2EX, Revel F36, and Wharfedale Diamond 12.4 for the "sound" I'm looking for... super smooth, neutral or slightly laid-back, and nonfatiguingly musical. Perhaps ELACs would work too. Because when I read about KEF, B&W, Monitor Audio, Dynaudio, Focal, Dali, SVS, Paradigm, Polk Reserve, etc... there's always something that concerns me in the budget bracket I'm looking at.

Prior to the Sierra-1, I had AV123 ELT525 and X-LS Encore speakers which I also liked. The S1 took what I liked about those speakers to another level. Simply, musical enjoyment. Emotion verses analytic. And that's the route I'm trying to continue pursuing.

[Ascend0577]

You're welcome!

[davef]

I think in terms of budget, it's between the S2EX, Revel F36, and Wharfedale Diamond 12.4 for the "sound" I'm looking for... super smooth, neutral or slightly laid-back, and nonfatiguingly musical. Perhaps ELACs would work too. Because when I read about KEF, B&W, Monitor Audio, Dynaudio, Focal, Dali, SVS, Paradigm, Polk Reserve, etc... there's always something that concerns me in the budget bracket I'm looking at.

Prior to the Sierra-1, I had AV123 ELT525 and X-LS Encore speakers which I also liked. The S1 took what I liked about those speakers to another level. Simply, musical enjoyment. Emotion verses analytic. And that's the route I'm trying to continue pursuing.

Based on your comments, I feel the Sierra-2EX are *exactly* the speakers you are looking for :)

[N Boros]

For the sub, it will def be between Rythmik and PSA.

The PSA subs are not all all known for being articulate. Rythmik’s are an excellent match, which is why you can also purchase them through Ascend. If price is an issue Monolith subs for some strange reason don’t seem to have been affected by price increases yet, which has affected just about every other manufacturer. They have excellent group delay measurements as well. This might be overblown but I’ve heard of several at AVS having amp failure, maybe not more frequent than any other manufacturer, but Monoprice wants you to ship back the entire subwoofer, which doesn’t sound all that easy. If you read on the Rythmik AVS thread you will see their excellent customer service if an amp needs to be replaced where they quickly just send a new amp, sometimes even outside of the warranty period.

I was never happy with my Outlaw subwoofer, since I had to set it’s crossover far too low, since the bass in the 50 to 80 Hz region isn't nearly as tight as the Sierra 2s. Setting the crossover that low for movies is not a great idea with the Sierra 2s. After upgrading to a pair of Rythmik’s I can set the crossover at 80 Hz now and the subwoofers are as articulate as the Sierra 2s in the 50 to 80 Hz range. I think you would have the same problem with the PSA subs as I had with the Outlaw subwoofer.

[billy p]

I would agree in part with the above post regarding the PSA and drivers used in the past...having owned one of their dual opposed designs...I do think with them switching over to the new iPal they should be significantly better in the mid bass region based on measurements at DB....but if your looking for presice and articulate bass Yea...go with the rythmik for reasons outlined above or get the best of both worlds mid bass and lower LFE...but spend a lot more and buy a funk audio 18.0...just on my own experiences and people's testimonials...the Rythmik is about as close to a funk as any sub out there...to bad their 18s where in the prototype phase when I moved away from my PSA....else I'd likely be an owner a f18...now..
But I have zero buyers remorse...in my final decision.

[N Boros]

I would agree in part with the above post regarding the PSA and drivers used in the past...having owned one of their dual opposed designs...I do think with them switching over to the new iPal they should be significantly better in the mid bass region based on measurements at DB....but if your looking for presice and articulate bass Yea...go with the rythmik for reasons outlined above or get the best of both worlds mid bass and lower LFE...but spend a lot more and buy a funk audio 18.0...just on my own experiences and people's testimonials...the Rythmik is about as close to a funk as any sub out there...to bad their 18s where in the prototype phase when I moved away from my PSA....else I'd likely be an owner a f18...now..
But I have zero buyers remorse...in my final decision.

I’m not sure what it is about the PSA subs where they are not as precise and articulate as others, especially the sealed designs. The only thing we can look at on data-bass, as far as transient response, is the group delay which looks great. Perhaps an impulse response or cumulative spectral decay plot would tell us more. But, I’ve heard several reviewers mention this in addition to many on AVS all talking about this with the PSA subs, which is why I steered clear of them.

[billy p]

IÂ’m not sure what it is about the PSA subs where they are not as precise and articulate as others, especially the sealed designs. The only thing we can look at on data-bass, as far as transient response, is the group delay which looks great. Perhaps an impulse response or cumulative spectral decay plot would tell us more. But, IÂ’ve heard several reviewers mention this in addition to many on AVS all talking about this with the PSA subs, which is why I steered clear of them.

Well I had both variations of the xs30e dual opposed...the original was a big let down for me...because I was coming from a diy acoustic elegance av driver built by Nathan Funk. I shortly after switched over to the eminence which was much better but not really blown away....why I eventually sold it and started on my trek to larger 18s...as I had mentioned before Rythmik was on my radar but still in prototype phase and why I just splurged for the funk. One question I was asked over and over again via PM or in the PSA thread on AVS why and what's the difference...it's hard to describe when you hear it... it's obvious...mid bass clean and snappy with no overhang on notes as you noted above...my xs30....was sloppy and really lacked impact or visceral effects...I pretty much told them...I suppose, now the majority of PSA owner... switched over to the iPal...can sort of understand what I'm talking about...if I where hastened to guess the Rythmik paper n aluminum cone blended together would sound like the carbon fiber TSAD....funk uses...iirc... Rythmik was looking into CF because it's light weight and can take a beating but trying to incorporate that design into a single woofer won't be a cheap endeavor...but that's why they(Rythmik) offers current options to keep the cost down for them as well as their customers...