Speakers for People with Tinnitus

[Robert]

Hey Ascend fans,

Just had a question for the group and wanted to get further opinions on speakers for people with tinnitus.

My dad went through cancer treatments a few years ago and is doing really well. So far so good on keeping it at bay! I spent some time this past weekend updating the setup by making a basic music streaming system for my parents.

I also gave them my older Bluesound Node 2 for my dad to stream his favorite songs. Overall, he knows enough to work his iPad and stream away. It's a small 10'x10'x9' (WxLxH) room. He currently uses an Onkyo TX-8020 in direct mode with two PSB Alpha B1 speakers.

Over the last few years he has complained about the higher end PSBs and the titanium tweeters and how they aggravate his ears. We've worked with speaker placement and basic EQ settings (he just likes a receiver with a bass & treble control only, but now prefers the direct no EQ mode), but it still bothers him. Room treatment options are probably off the table. He finds the aluminum tweeters on the Alphas are a bit better, but he initially placed them up in the corners near the ceiling. He recently moved furniture and also moved them to speaker stands at ear level. The new placement tends to bother him much more.

I'm tending to focus more on the RAAL ribbons or perhaps a lower cost soft dome tweeter. Have either been easier on your ears? He will be visiting my house next week and I may have him demo the RAAL towers to see if it bothers him. Those are well outside his budget, so obviously either the Sierra 1s, Lunas, or Sierra 2 EXs would be the other options. Thank you!

[natetg57]

Hey Ascend fans,

Just had a question for the group and wanted to get further opinions on speakers for people with tinnitus.

My dad went through cancer treatments a few years ago and is doing really well. So far so good on keeping it at bay! I spent some time this past weekend updating the system by making a basic music streaming system for my parents.

I also gave them my older Bluesound Node 2 for my dad to stream his favorite songs. Overall, he knows enough to work his iPad and stream away. It's a small 10'x10'x9' (WxLxH) room. He currently uses an Onkyo TX-8020 in direct mode with two PSB Alpha B1 speakers.

Over the last few years he has complained about the higher end PSBs and the titanium tweeters and how they aggravate his ears. We've worked with speaker placement and basic EQ settings (he just likes a receiver with a bass & treble control only, but now prefers the direct no EQ mode), but it still bothers him. Room treatment options are probably off the table. He finds the aluminum tweeters on the Alphas are a bit better, but he initially placed them up in the corners near the ceiling. He recently moved furniture and also moved them to speaker stands at ear level. The new placement tends to bother him much more.

I'm tending to focus more on the RAAL ribbons or perhaps a lower cost soft dome tweeter. Have either been easier on your ears? He will be visiting my house next week and I may have him demo the RAAL towers to see if it bothers him. Those are well outside his budget, so obviously either the Sierra 1s, Lunas, or Sierra 2 EXs would be the other options. Thank you!

The Sierra-1s have a bit of a rolled off top end so they may be a good choice. The Sierra-2EX might also work well since the ribbon is detailed but doesn't have extra stored energy.

[Robert]

Thanks, Nate. I’ll be curious about his impressions on the towers next week. His main complaint is buzzing when he listens to music. I managed to convince him that the stereo and speakers sound fine to me and are not defective….just certain frequencies bother him. When rock bands like Journey are playing, it seems to greatly bother his ears. Low volume and overall speaker clarity seem to help.

[racrawford65]

Hi Robert

Glad to hear that your dad is still doing well after cancer treatment. My mom went through cancer treatment 20 or so years ago and is still doing well.

Anyways, with regards to your question, I went from Def Tech ProMonitor with metal domes to Ascend S2's (and now have Towers with RAAL). I found both the S2's and Towers are much easier on the ears than the Def Techs, particularly at louder levels or extended listening sessions.

[N Boros]

I didn’t go through cancer treatments, ending up with tinnitus. But I do have minor tinnitus, where if I’m not careful I can make it worse. My Axiom Audio speakers would fatigue my ears only listening at -30 dB for a couple of hours. I auditioned the Sierra 2s and ended up selling the Axiom Audio speakers because I don’t really have any fatigue at all with the Sierra 2s. I can listen at -20 to -15 dB for several hours and don’t really have any fatigue. It is wonderful. I think you might be headed in the right direction, having them listen to the speakers with the RAAL ribbon tweeters. I think that it is the exceptionally fast transient response on the high end and overall that helps so much. I don’t really care why, since they work for me, but it makes the most sense.

[davef]

Hey Ascend fans,

Just had a question for the group and wanted to get further opinions on speakers for people with tinnitus.

My dad went through cancer treatments a few years ago and is doing really well. So far so good on keeping it at bay! I spent some time this past weekend updating the setup by making a basic music streaming system for my parents.

I also gave them my older Bluesound Node 2 for my dad to stream his favorite songs. Overall, he knows enough to work his iPad and stream away. It's a small 10'x10'x9' (WxLxH) room. He currently uses an Onkyo TX-8020 in direct mode with two PSB Alpha B1 speakers.

Over the last few years he has complained about the higher end PSBs and the titanium tweeters and how they aggravate his ears. We've worked with speaker placement and basic EQ settings (he just likes a receiver with a bass & treble control only, but now prefers the direct no EQ mode), but it still bothers him. Room treatment options are probably off the table. He finds the aluminum tweeters on the Alphas are a bit better, but he initially placed them up in the corners near the ceiling. He recently moved furniture and also moved them to speaker stands at ear level. The new placement tends to bother him much more.

I'm tending to focus more on the RAAL ribbons or perhaps a lower cost soft dome tweeter. Have either been easier on your ears? He will be visiting my house next week and I may have him demo the RAAL towers to see if it bothers him. Those are well outside his budget, so obviously either the Sierra 1s, Lunas, or Sierra 2 EXs would be the other options. Thank you!

Hi Robert,

Wishing you a very warm welcome to our forum. Your post really hits home for me.

The main reason I started looking into RAAL ribbon tweeters was due to my later father's Tinnitus. He battled Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma first but eventually succumbed to squamous cell carcinoma after a rough 6 year battle. He went through 3 full courses of chemotherapy (~ 24 sessions in total - he never gave up) and with this much chemo, he ended up with rather severe nerve damage. He developed a horrible case of Tinnitus that drove him crazy as listening to music was one thing that helped him relax.

Most speakers caused him aggravation, especially anything with a metal dome tweeter. Metal dome tweeters "ring" and while we typically can't hear this ringing, this resonance is still picked up by our eardrums. Because it is such high frequencies, it causes the eardrum to vibrate quickly and for those with Tinnitus, significant aggravation. He also could not use headphones as this too would cause significant aggravation. The PSB Alpha B1's have a metal dome tweeter and you can see the ringing in the CSD plot taken by stereophile:

https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/507Psbfig4.jpg

Those obvious peaks at about 25kHz is ringing.

There wasn't much I could do for my father regarding his health, but I wanted to help him relax so I began research into tweeters that did not ring and had little to no stored energy.

This eventually led me to Aleksandar Radisavljevic, the developer and owner of RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, someone who I am proud to call my friend. These true ribbon tweeters are the smoothest most non-fatiguing tweeters out there. I always recommend them for anyone with hearing issues and in nearly all cases, they turn out to be exactly what this person was looking for and no loudspeaker company has more experience with RAAL tweeters than we do...

I absolutely want to assist you with this as it is most personal to me, so please reach out if you have any questions.

[Pogre]

This is twice now I've seen reports of folks with tinnitus being sensitive to the treble region, which is odd to me because I have it and experience the opposite. I'm a lot less sensitive to higher frequencies than I used to be, unfortunately. If anything I probably tend to run my towers a little hot in that region to compensate.

That said, I can still hear well enough to appreciate the ribbons in the Sierra towers and they sound wonderful to me. It really stood out to us when I had to send one back with a cracked cab (which Dave and Dana made as painless and easy as possible for me) and hooked my old Ultra towers back up for a week while we waited. The Ultras are great speakers but my wife and I could immediately hear a tizziness we'd never noticed before hearing the Sierras.

[N Boros]

This is twice now I've seen reports of folks with tinnitus being sensitive to the treble region, which is odd to me because I have it and experience the opposite. I'm a lot less sensitive to higher frequencies than I used to be, unfortunately. If anything I probably tend to run my towers a little hot in that region to compensate.

That said, I can still hear well enough to appreciate the ribbons in the Sierra towers and they sound wonderful to me. It really stood out to us when I had to send one back with a cracked cab (which Dave and Dana made as painless and easy as possible for me) and hooked my old Ultra towers back up for a week while we waited. The Ultras are great speakers but my wife and I could immediately hear a tizziness we'd never noticed before hearing the Sierras.

I frequently read articles and reviews on Audioholics. I recall Gene Dellasala mentioning several times that his wife of very sensitive to the lowest octaves, where he has to turn down or turn off subwoofers to help. I don’t recall him finding a better solution than that. You might try checking with him though, if you have this same issue.

[Pogre]

My issue is a loss of sensitivity with higher frequencies, but my bass ears work really well!

I've since done a little more reading on it and understand now that tinnitus can affect different folks in different ways, including sensitivity and fatigue. Fortunately that's not the case with me, tho I do have a high pitched tone constantly playing in my ears that never goes away. I've gotten pretty good at ignoring it tho.

[Robert]

Yeah, it is very interesting reading from others impacted differently. People come in all types, shapes, and sizes, so it stands to reason that our listening preferences also can vary. Honestly, I'm glad we all have different listening preferences as that makes life interesting, but tinnitus stinks regardless. Thanks to all for sharing your experiences.

My dad loves bass and if something is lacking in it, I'll hear him complain. I'll see where he stands after this Wednesday after listening to the RAAL towers and the Lunas.

If anything, I may steer him towards the standard cabinet Sierra 2 EXs or the Lunas (if he prefers the smaller size) with a subwoofer to assist as he mentions getting a small sub to help in the bass regions for music. His listening preferences are 100% music (in stereo). 75% of it being on the FM radio, 15% being cds (now streaming on the Node 2), and 10% vinyl. I'm partial to the Paradigm Defiance V10 for his small room as I can easily integrate Anthem Room Correction into it for "taming" his room and he (or I) can access any setting easily via the built in app on his iPad. He doesn't need a powerhouse sub for his listening tastes anyways and if the footprint is too big, he won't like it.

[MusicHead]

If you are looking for a relatively small sub that does wonder with music, I recommend the Rythmik L12.

[davef]

Yeah, it is very interesting reading from others impacted differently. People come in all types, shapes, and sizes, so it stands to reason that our listening preferences also can vary. Honestly, I'm glad we all have different listening preferences as that makes life interesting, but tinnitus stinks regardless. Thanks to all for sharing your experiences.

My dad loves bass and if something is lacking in it, I'll hear him complain. I'll see where he stands after this Wednesday after listening to the RAAL towers and the Lunas.

If anything, I may steer him towards the standard cabinet Sierra 2 EXs or the Lunas (if he prefers the smaller size) with a subwoofer to assist as he mentions getting a small sub to help in the bass regions for music. His listening preferences are 100% music (in stereo). 75% of it being on the FM radio, 15% being cds (now streaming on the Node 2), and 10% vinyl. I'm partial to the Paradigm Defiance V10 for his small room as I can easily integrate Anthem Room Correction into it for "taming" his room and he (or I) can access any setting easily via the built in app on his iPad. He doesn't need a powerhouse sub for his listening tastes anyways and if the footprint is too big, he won't like it.

Hi Robert,

Are you scheduled for a visit with us here at our office? I don't see you on our calendar. Please confirm and thanks in advance.

[Robert]

Hi Robert,

Are you scheduled for a visit with us here at our office? I don't see you on our calendar. Please confirm and thanks in advance.

Hi Dave! Sorry for the confusion, I sort of mentioned indirectly in my initial post that I’ll have a small demo at my house. It’s a moderately treated media room/man cave. I’m out in the Midwest, but I’m a happy RAAL tower owner, along with Luna surrounds and a Duo center. Both you & Dina helped me a lot last year and in 2019 when I first bought Ascend speakers. I’d love to visit your facility, but it’s definitely for my wallet’s protection that I hold off on a visit. :)


If you are looking for a relatively small sub that does wonder with music, I recommend the Rythmik L12.

Yes, I really like Rythmik subs! I’ve never owned one, but have seen them in action…and the main reason the Paradigm wins out is the awesome app and ARC integration. It’s great to not have to reach behind and tinker with controls on the back panel. It’s also great for utilizing with receivers that lack any room correction like my dad’s. He is constantly moving stuff around and tinkering. I’m a happy Defiance X12 owner, but with newer receivers integrating Dirac, I’ll probably give Rythmik a call when I ever decide to upgrade.

[davef]

Hi Dave! Sorry for the confusion, I sort of mentioned indirectly in my initial post that I’ll have a small demo at my house. It’s a moderately treated media room/man cave. I’m out in the Midwest, but I’m a happy RAAL tower owner, along with Luna surrounds and a Duo center. Both you & Dina helped me a lot last year and in 2019 when I first bought Ascend speakers. I’d love to visit your facility, but it’s definitely for my wallet’s protection that I hold off on a visit. :)

Thanks for the clarification! My confusion was because there is another Robert scheduling a demo with us but he just confirmed for this Friday (Luna demo) Since your name is also Robert and there was discussion of demoing Luna's - I wasn't sure who was who, lol...

Very happy that you continue to enjoy your speakers!!!

[Robert]

Thanks for the clarification! My confusion was because there is another Robert scheduling a demo with us but he just confirmed for this Friday (Luna demo) Since your name is also Robert and there was discussion of demoing Luna's - I wasn't sure who was who, lol...

Very happy that you continue to enjoy your speakers!!!

Haha....dang...maybe I should've booked a trip.....then you could've said you had a meeting with the Bobs! :)

[Robert]

Just following up on this thread. Got back from a great family trip to the UP of Michigan, but managed to squeeze in a listening session with my dad on experiencing some Ascend speakers. He really enjoyed the music on the RAAL towers and didn't experience the sort of fatigue or irritation that he experienced on the PSB Alphas. Granted, the towers are well out of his price range, but I'll probably let him try out a set of Sierra 2 EX speakers. He is a very fickle audio guy, where I tend to stick with gear for a while. It's the usual audio hobbyist conundrum that seems to affect many of us....when to draw the line to say you're happy & satisfied!

[N Boros]

Just following up on this thread. Got back from a great family trip to the UP of Michigan, but managed to squeeze in a listening session with my dad on experiencing some Ascend speakers. He really enjoyed the music on the RAAL towers and didn't experience the sort of fatigue or irritation that he experienced on the PSB Alphas. Granted, the towers are well out of his price range, but I'll probably let him try out a set of Sierra 2 EX speakers. He is a very fickle audio guy, where I tend to stick with gear for a while. It's the usual audio hobbyist conundrum that seems to affect many of us....when to draw the line to say you're happy & satisfied!

The towers might be out of his price range, but you mentioned the Sierra 2EX’s which might be in the price range. The Lunas are even lower in price. Of course you wouldn’t want to sit 15 feet away from the Lunas in a great room, but if there is a smaller reasonable sized listening room at 10 to 12 feet away or less from the speakers, the Sierra 2EXs and Lunas are great options.

[theophile]

...There wasn't much I could do for my father regarding his health, but I wanted to help him relax so I began research into tweeters that did not ring and had little to no stored energy.

This eventually led me to Aleksandar Radisavljevic, the developer and owner of RAAL Ribbon Tweeters, someone who I am proud to call my friend. These true ribbon tweeters are the smoothest most non-fatiguing tweeters out there. I always recommend them for anyone with hearing issues and in nearly all cases, they turn out to be exactly what this person was looking for and no loudspeaker company has more experience with RAAL tweeters than we do...

I absolutely want to assist you with this as it is most personal to me, so please reach out if you have any questions.

Dave,

Heartwarming story of how You and RAAL's relationship came to be...May your Dad Rest-In-Peace!

FWIW at 68, I still retain excellent hearing (0db to 10db sensitivity range, from 200 to 8K Hz, top end rolloff @ 15KHz)! However, tinnitus has been slowly creeping in. It's not too bad, but when I'm in my music room listening sessions and the music becomes Very Quiet (or between tracks), the ringing is very noticeable. However as soon as the music starts to flow, the Sierra 2EX sing beautifully and any traces of my tinnitus ringing totally disappears. This wasn't the case with my previous Sierra-NrT's, thus my exhilarating love for the RAAL's and your 2EX design...Thank You!!! :D

Ted

[Robert]

The towers might be out of his price range, but you mentioned the Sierra 2EX’s which might be in the price range. The Lunas are even lower in price. Of course you wouldn’t want to sit 15 feet away from the Lunas in a great room, but if there is a smaller reasonable sized listening room at 10 to 12 feet away or less from the speakers, the Sierra 2EXs and Lunas are great options.

Yes, definitely! I've given that some thought on the Lunas and may pull my Lunas used as surrounds in for a temporary demo at his place. He likes bass and the Lunas may not satisfy him enough due to their size and bass output capabilities. His seating distance is about 8ft away in that 10'x10'x9' room. He is warm & cold on subwoofers, which would be an area to tread carefully. He finds subwoofers inconsistent when it comes to performance. A few of the subwoofers he has tried were not placed in the best spot along with no assistance from any room correction. He comes from an audio era where subwoofers just weren't a thing. :)

[davef]

Dave,

Heartwarming story of how You and RAAL's relationship came to be...May your Dad Rest-In-Peace!

FWIW at 68, I still retain excellent hearing (0db to 10db sensitivity range, from 200 to 8K Hz, top end rolloff @ 15KHz)! However, tinnitus has been slowly creeping in. It's not too bad, but when I'm in my music room listening sessions and the music becomes Very Quiet (or between tracks), the ringing is very noticeable. However as soon as the music starts to flow, the Sierra 2EX sing beautifully and any traces of my tinnitus ringing totally disappears. This wasn't the case with my previous Sierra-NrT's, thus my exhilarating love for the RAAL's and your 2EX design...Thank You!!! :D

Ted

Thank you Ted!

[theophile]

Yes, definitely! I've given that some thought on the Lunas and may pull my Lunas used as surrounds in for a temporary demo at his place. He likes bass and the Lunas may not satisfy him enough due to their size and bass output capabilities. His seating distance is about 8ft away in that 10'x10'x9' room. He is warm & cold on subwoofers, which would be an area to tread carefully. He finds subwoofers inconsistent when it comes to performance. A few of the subwoofers he has tried were not placed in the best spot along with no assistance from any room correction. He comes from an audio era where subwoofers just weren't a thing. :)

Hi Robert,

After reading your situation, believe I parallel your dad's musical taste, listening environment and hearing issues. I have a dedicated 2-channel listening room that is 9'W x 10'L x 11'H. Although I compliment the Sierra-2EX with a sub (love pipe organ), these 2EX monitors' bass dig real deep (around 32Hz in my room response) and could easily satisfy my symphonic, choral, instrumental, jazz and ensemble acoustical (non-amplified) music by themselves!! As per my post #18 above, their treble presentation is extremely smooth, accurate, precise and detailed (like the RAAL Towers), with a laid back, not-in-your-face crystal clear and naturalistic tonality...just what the audio doctor ordered to sooth my tinnitus! ;)

Not to be left alone in desperation, the midrange bandwidth is what Really Shines in the 2EX. Vocals, strings, keyboard and any well recorded genre come alive with vibrancy, clarity, warmth and realism. Overall soundstage presentation (imaging, depth, height, width) is Huge and once setup placement in a room is dialed in, the 2EX totally disappear. Those who have heard both state that the 2EX are close to the balance and accuracy of the RAAL Towers!! :D

No doubt the Lunas are a very fine and compact stand monitor, but IME to match the Sierra-2EX sonic virtues, you'd have to spend at least 3-4X their price in the retail speaker market! :cool:

Ted

[Robert]

Hi Robert,

After reading your situation, believe I parallel your dad's musical taste, listening environment and hearing issues. I have a dedicated 2-channel listening room that is 9'W x 10'L x 11'H. Although I compliment the Sierra-2EX with a sub (love pipe organ), these 2EX monitors' bass dig real deep (around 32Hz in my room response) and could easily satisfy my symphonic, choral, instrumental, jazz and ensemble acoustical (non-amplified) music by themselves!! As per my post #18 above, their treble presentation is extremely smooth, accurate, precise and detailed (like the RAAL Towers), with a laid back, not-in-your-face crystal clear and naturalistic tonality...just what the audio doctor ordered to sooth my tinnitus! ;)

Not to be left alone in desperation, the midrange bandwidth is what Really Shines in the 2EX. Vocals, strings, keyboard and any well recorded genre come alive with vibrancy, clarity, warmth and realism. Overall soundstage presentation (imaging, depth, height, width) is Huge and once setup placement in a room is dialed in, the 2EX totally disappear. Those who have heard both state that the 2EX are close to the balance and accuracy of the RAAL Towers!! :D

No doubt the Lunas are a very fine and compact stand monitor, but IME to match the Sierra-2EX sonic virtues, you'd have to spend at least 3-4X their price in the retail speaker market! :cool:

Ted

Hi Ted,

Glad you enjoy your setup! I agree with your above comments. It sounds similar to your situation. My dad is open to change.....he is liking the Node 2 I handed down to him when I moved to the NODE (latest after the Bluesound 2i, but they decided to go back to Node).

I also really think a good subwoofer integration would do well for him. We'll give the Lunas a go first as I have them in my setup. I'll probably just buy a subwoofer for him as a gift to try out. I believe I may have already mentioned that my dad can be a bit fickle. :)

[N Boros]

Yes, definitely! I've given that some thought on the Lunas and may pull my Lunas used as surrounds in for a temporary demo at his place. He likes bass and the Lunas may not satisfy him enough due to their size and bass output capabilities. His seating distance is about 8ft away in that 10'x10'x9' room. He is warm & cold on subwoofers, which would be an area to tread carefully. He finds subwoofers inconsistent when it comes to performance. A few of the subwoofers he has tried were not placed in the best spot along with no assistance from any room correction. He comes from an audio era where subwoofers just weren't a thing. :)

A pair of L12’s would be perfect in that room. It has only been a year since I upgraded from a single Outlaw subwoofer to a pair of Rythmik subwoofers. It was a huge upgrade going from Outlaw to Rythmik, but half of that performance upgrade is most likely due to having two subwoofers properly placed across the room from each other. I moved my Outlaw subwoofer to the living room setup (the Rythmiks are in my theater room area) and the bass aggregates me. It is not smooth and even like in the theater room. I’m already planning to make sure I get a pair of subwoofers in the more casual living room setup too. Once you experience the difference it is pretty night and day.