Upgrade existing Sierra-1s or get Sierra-2EXs instead?

[Belows]

I’ve had my Sierra-1s for a couple of years now, having upgraded from my venerable and beloved CBM-170s, which I still own and use as bedroom speakers. I love the Sierra 1s but it’s time to take another step up to the Sierra-2EXs. The only question I have is whether to upgrade or buy new Sierra-2EXs? After the upgrade, would my speakers be identical to a brand new pair of EXs or are there subtle differences in the 1 and 2EX cabinets in terms of appearance, internal bracing, damping material, etc.? The monetary difference isn’t that big of a deal but I may as well save a little if they’ll be identical. Otherwise I’d prefer to buy new.

[Mag_Neato]

They would be identical. I've upgraded my original Sierra-1's from the first run back in 2007 to each of the upgrades, NrT, Sierra-2 and now Sierra-2EX. If you have more current Sierra-1's then you shouldn't encounter the issues I had with first gen cabinets from the original cabinet vendor. Should be plug-n-play.

[theophile]

I’ve had my Sierra-1s for a couple of years now, having upgraded from my venerable and beloved CBM-170s, which I still own and use as bedroom speakers. I love the Sierra 1s but it’s time to take another step up to the Sierra-2EXs. The only question I have is whether to upgrade or buy new Sierra-2EXs? After the upgrade, would my speakers be identical to a brand new pair of EXs or are there subtle differences in the 1 and 2EX cabinets in terms of appearance, internal bracing, damping material, etc.? The monetary difference isn’t that big of a deal but I may as well save a little if they’ll be identical. Otherwise I’d prefer to buy new.

If you like the cabinets you already have, then the full 2EX upgrade would be worth it, although I'm not sure how the warranty goes (another 7 years)? If not, then invest in New Sierra-2EX Monitors and sell the Sierra-1's (just what I did with the Sierra-1 NrT's (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?7355-AA-Sierra-2EX-Monitor-Review))!

Ted

[Belows]

If you like the cabinets you already have, then the full 2EX upgrade would be worth it, although I'm not sure how the warranty goes (another 7 years)? If not, then invest in New Sierra-2EX Monitors and sell the Sierra-1's (just what I did with the Sierra-1 NrT's (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?7355-AA-Sierra-2EX-Monitor-Review))!

Ted

I'm curious about the warranty situation too. Are the upgraded parts warrantied for 7 years like the Sierra-2EX (which I assume it does) or does the warranty track back to the date I originally bought the Sierra-1s?

[Mag_Neato]

What Dave has done with the other upgrades is that if you send your speakers in to Ascend and have them perform the upgrade, they will take measurements, etc. and the warranty resets to the full 7 years. If you order the upgrade kits and do it yourself then they would warranty the parts against defects for a shorter period. I don't recall the exact details. I've always handled the upgrades myself since I have complete confidence in the quality of the components and figure if something is going to fail, it will be within the first year.

[davef]

I'm curious about the warranty situation too. Are the upgraded parts warrantied for 7 years like the Sierra-2EX (which I assume it does) or does the warranty track back to the date I originally bought the Sierra-1s?

If you send the speakers back to us and have us do the upgrade for you, your warranty on the upgraded components (tweeter, woofer, crossover etc) resets to an additional 7 years.

If you do the upgrade yourself, the warranty continues from the original purchase date. If your warranty has already expired, we warranty the upgrade components for 1 year. Of course, we can not provide any warranty coverage on damage that is not considered a manufacturing defect.

[Belows]

If you send the speakers back to us and have us do the upgrade for you, your warranty on the upgraded components (tweeter, woofer, crossover etc) resets to an additional 7 years.

If you do the upgrade yourself, the warranty continues from the original purchase date. If your warranty has already expired, we warranty the upgrade components for 1 year. Of course, we can not provide any warranty coverage on damage that is not considered a manufacturing defect.

Thanks Dave, I appreciate the quick reply. My boxes are in perfect condition and I'd be more worried about them getting damaged in transit than getting a new 7-year warranty. Heck, I still have my CBM 170s from back in the first year you offered them (which is maybe 20 years ago or more?) and they're going strong! So, if I do the upgrade myself they will be identical to a brand new pair of 2EXs (except for the 2-year old cabinets)?

[theophile]

If you do the upgrade yourself, the warranty continues from the original purchase date.


So, if I do the upgrade myself they will be identical to a brand new pair of 2EXs (except for the 2-year old cabinets)?

Doing the upgrade yourself (2-yr old S1's upgraded to new S-2EX kits), believe Dave's warranty policy means you would still have "5" years remaining to cover the full kit upgrade! ;)

Ted

[davef]

Thanks Dave, I appreciate the quick reply. My boxes are in perfect condition and I'd be more worried about them getting damaged in transit than getting a new 7-year warranty. Heck, I still have my CBM 170s from back in the first year you offered them (which is maybe 20 years ago or more?) and they're going strong! So, if I do the upgrade myself they will be identical to a brand new pair of 2EXs (except for the 2-year old cabinets)?

Awesome news about your 170's!!

There are no component differences between Sierra-2EX assembled at our facility vs upgrading using the kits. I can't say they will be "identical" - because when we build them here they are put through a variety of tests prior to packaging and shipping that you would not be able to perform. However, provided you are meticulous during the upgrade procedure there shouldn't be any issues. We have had many hundreds of customers perform this upgrade.

[SunByrne]

We have had many hundreds of customers perform this upgrade.

And some of us who have performed it hundreds of times... well, OK, maybe not quite that many. :p

But I've done some version of it at least a half-dozen times (I currently own three sets of cabinets, currently all with different internals) and never had a problem. The instructions are clear and complete, and it's not difficult.

[Belows]

Awesome news about your 170's!!

There are no component differences between Sierra-2EX assembled at our facility vs upgrading using the kits. I can't say they will be "identical" - because when we build them here they are put through a variety of tests prior to packaging and shipping that you would not be able to perform. However, provided you are meticulous during the upgrade procedure there shouldn't be any issues. We have had many hundreds of customers perform this upgrade.

Thanks Dave. I'll be sending my upgrade order in soon. And thanks for such attention to detail and quality. My 170s are a testament to that for sure!

--Scott

[rickm]

The new 2-EX cabinets have magnetic grills.

[theophile]

The new 2-EX cabinets have magnetic grills.

Yes, but just in the "Domestic" Cabinet selections. The "Standard" Sierra-2EX (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2EX/srm2exgal.html) Cabinet selections still have the pin/receiver grill attachments!

Ted

[Belows]

I finally got the Sierra 1 --> Sierra 2EX upgrade completed for my right/left pair. While I was at it I also upgraded my HT receiver from an Onkyo TX RZ820 to a Marantz SR6015. Holy cow!!! :D

I know there are lots of differing views on speaker break-in and I don't pretend to know much about it, but if these do in fact break-in over time I find it difficult to believe they can sound any better than they do now. Spent a late night listening to HD digital music and couldn't stop smiling!

[theophile]

I finally got the Sierra 1 --> Sierra 2EX upgrade completed for my right/left pair. While I was at it I also upgraded my HT receiver from an Onkyo TX RZ820 to a Marantz SR6015. Holy cow!!! :D

I know there are lots of differing views on speaker break-in and I don't pretend to know much about it, but if these do in fact break-in over time I find it difficult to believe they can sound any better than they do now. Spent a late night listening to HD digital music and couldn't stop smiling!

Belows, Congrats on the Sierra transformation. 1's to the 2EX's should be HUGE!! :D

FWIW, with music only break-in (wide genre-normal listening levels), I did experience steady improvements on:

1. Definitive "bass response and tightness" after the 1st 2-10 hours
2. Increased "soundstage openness and focus" at 25 hours
3. Excellent "totally seamless blend" between the RAAL and EX between 100-150 hours

Actually on 6-13-21, I made some simple component set-up changes that has left me Stunned with the 2EX -top to bottom- Holographic Presentation...I should have done THIS (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?7355-AA-Sierra-2EX-Monitor-Review/page3) many years ago!! :o :cool:

ENJOY Your Journey into Audio Nirvana!!!

Ted

[petmotel]

I finally got the Sierra 1 --> Sierra 2EX upgrade completed for my right/left pair. While I was at it I also upgraded my HT receiver from an Onkyo TX RZ820 to a Marantz SR6015. Holy cow!!! :D

I know there are lots of differing views on speaker break-in and I don't pretend to know much about it, but if these do in fact break-in over time I find it difficult to believe they can sound any better than they do now. Spent a late night listening to HD digital music and couldn't stop smiling!

I would like to see measured evidence that speaker "break in" of modern transducers occur over the course of short term use. I would imagine that somewhere along the way Dave has probably weighed in on this subject. I've heard the opinion expressed on more than one occasion that it is the human neural system adjusting to the new speakers rather than the transducers "loosening up", I surely can't state either to be fact.

Jay

[Beave]

Break-in of speaker drivers is real and can be measured.

It's also very small, likely only *barely* audible if at all, and happens quickly (seconds, not months).

A temperature difference in your house could also lead to measurable changes in driver characteristics, but nobody talks about how their system sounds better in winter/summer.

Moving the speaker - or your head - an inch or two probably makes a larger measurable difference.

The break-in that people report happening over months is purely psychological.

[theophile]

...I've heard the opinion expressed on more than one occasion that it is the human neural system adjusting to the new speakers rather than the transducers "loosening up", I surely can't state either to be fact.
Jay


...The break-in that people report happening over months is purely psychological.

"Speaker" Break-In...or is it more like "Head" Break-In"!?! :confused:

IMHO, believe it's a little of both! During my 45 years of New speaker set purchases (5 to be exact), each had break-in sound change improvements (especially in the bass regions) that happened within a few hours to days, even weeks of playing music! Some changes were very subtle, others much more dramatic!

IF "what-I-heard" was strictly "in-my-head" (which it physically is), then I welcome that function of my psychological adaptation...it is what it is! Possibly, this explanation would lend itself to one becoming comfortable and accepting most-other-speaker design sounds during long term exposures. However, in my many years of listening sessions to many other designs (some dynamics, horns, electrostatics), my "hearing psyche" just will not adapt to their type of sound presentations.

Even with very close tolerances, I suspect mechanical transducers and even electrical X-over components have Some form of break-in time frames (albeit minor or major). Can one hear the differences/improvements/deterioration...depends on individual hearing and understanding of the details of the changes. Maybe a handicap, but I'm not a "show-me-the-measurement" audiophile, but rely on what my trained and experienced ears (and head) tell Me! FWIW, found a POST (https://www.stereophile.com/content/speaker-break-1) that supports both sides of this interesting topic!! ;)

We all interpret sound in our own personal way...YMWV! :cool:

Ted

[petmotel]

"Speaker" Break-In...or is it more like "Head" Break-In"!?! :confused:

IMHO, believe it's a little of both! During my 45 years of New speaker set purchases (5 to be exact), each had break-in sound change improvements (especially in the bass regions) that happened within a few hours to days, even weeks of playing music! Some changes were very subtle, others much more dramatic!

IF "what-I-heard" was strictly "in-my-head" (which it physically is), then I welcome that function of my psychological adaptation...it is what it is! Possibly, this explanation would lend itself to one becoming comfortable and accepting most-other-speaker design sounds during long term exposures. However, in my many years of listening sessions to many other designs (some dynamics, horns, electrostatics), my "hearing psyche" just will not adapt to their type of sound presentations.

Even with very close tolerances, I suspect mechanical transducers and even electrical X-over components have Some form of break-in time frames (albeit minor or major). Can one hear the differences/improvements/deterioration...depends on individual hearing and understanding of the details of the changes. Maybe a handicap, but I'm not a "show-me-the-measurement" audiophile, but rely on what my trained and experienced ears (and head) tell Me! FWIW, found a POST (https://www.stereophile.com/content/speaker-break-1) that supports both sides of this interesting topic!! ;)

We all interpret sound in our own personal way...YMWV! :cool:

Ted

One of the things I most enjoy and appreciate about this forum is the adult participation here and an almost universal ability to discuss subjects in a rational, civilized manner. Almost gives one hope for Humanity! Obviously the people whom have realized the quality and value of Ascend products are pragmatic and realistic. At least that's my take.

Jay

[racrawford65]

second what Jay says.

[theophile]

One of the things I most enjoy and appreciate about this forum is the adult participation here and an almost universal ability to discuss subjects in a rational, civilized manner. Almost gives one hope for Humanity! Obviously the people whom have realized the quality and value of Ascend products are pragmatic and realistic. At least that's my take.

Jay


second what Jay says.

Have to agree, gentleman! One of the main reasons for my 14 years of membership!! :o

Ted

[davef]

Break-in of speaker drivers is real and can be measured.

It's also very small, likely only *barely* audible if at all, and happens quickly (seconds, not months).

A temperature difference in your house could also lead to measurable changes in driver characteristics, but nobody talks about how their system sounds better in winter/summer.

Moving the speaker - or your head - an inch or two probably makes a larger measurable difference.

The break-in that people report happening over months is purely psychological.

Excellent reply and 100% correct.

Transducer's do break-in, mostly seen as compliance changes as spiders and surrounds loosen up a bit. This does happen quite quickly though and is indeed measurable when evaluating T/S parameters. As to whether or not this is actually audible, no one really knows - but I have learned to never question what someone else hears. However, if it is audible, it would indeed be extremely minor.

[davef]

One of the things I most enjoy and appreciate about this forum is the adult participation here and an almost universal ability to discuss subjects in a rational, civilized manner. Almost gives one hope for Humanity! Obviously the people whom have realized the quality and value of Ascend products are pragmatic and realistic. At least that's my take.

Jay

Thank you - I truly appreciate this!