Sierra-2EX, which line of B & W does it compare to?

[hellolin]

Hi, I am a new guy into the world of hi fi, and I want to know a few things.

I know that B & W have their own house sound, and their sound profile is not neutral. But, they are one of the most famous name in the audio world, and my current front setup is a pair of Kef Q150 + a htm6 center that I picked up for half the price in best buy. I do think they sound great, but obviously it's because I am new to the game and haven't heard better, except anywhere I go, there are always a few people mentioning a little company called Ascend....So that's why I am here.

The reason why I want to compare to B & W is because I want to have a long term goal of saving for really good speakers. For you guys, and the owner Dave (?) here, if you had to make the comparison, which line of the B & W does the Sierra-2EX compare to? Is it good enough to go toe to toe with the 805 D2, which is supposed to be the queen of bookshelf speakers?

If so, then the Sierra-2EX is crazy in value then. I also live in SoCal and I am very interested in coming to the Ascend office to hear it personally. But problem is, as a new guy in the hi-fi game, I don't know what is good and how good without something to compare to. The best B & W speaker I heard are the 700 series towers in best buy, so I will most likely use that as a reference point.

[theophile]

For you guys, and the owner Dave (?) here, if you had to make the comparison, which line of the B & W does the Sierra-2EX compare to? Is it good enough to go toe to toe with the 805 D2, which is supposed to be the queen of bookshelf speakers?

HL,

"Hello" and Welcome to the Ascend Acoustic Forum! :)

You present a very interesting question for a hi-fi newbie...good for you! I've had the Sierra-1 NrT's for the past 9 years and really love them. When Dave was introducing the Sierra 2di (Diamond dome Sierra) 5 years ago, I also ventured out to the Magnolia Audio store to experience the B&W 805 D2 diamond "bookshelf" system. After 3 hours and a dozen of my best orchestral, jazz, vocal, choral and small ensemble CD's, felt the 805's were great, but just too forgiving in their mid-range warmth and nasal like sound qualities. However, I knew Dave was on the right track for possibly the BEST (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?6237-Diamond-Tweeter) Bookshelf Sound in the World!!!

Now, at $7.5K, I Will Have the 2di's In-The-House...when my Loto #'s Hit!! :rolleyes: For now and getting to answer your inquiry, on Tuesday of this week I replaced the Sierra1 NrTs with the Sierra2 EXs in my dedicated 2-channel music room! They are currently going on 50 hours of continuous music playback (break-in) and from the 1st note, song and CD, I can witness to the Sierra2 EX Prowness over the 805 D2's!!! It took about 1.5 hours of steady listening for my ears to accept the coloration's of the 805s, but I instantly accepted the natural, neutral and smooth response of the EXs!! Comparing the EXs to the NrTs (had for 9 yrs) and after the 1st 2 hours of a steady diet of all kinds of musical genre, the EX bass started punching like I've never felt before, dynamics Really increased and vocal and instrumental placements became very natural, focused and Real! Dave's combination of the RAAL tweeter and the 2di 6" woofer (EX) has allowed sharper transients, faster sound attacks/decays, superb timbre presentations, effortless dynamics and in my small 90sf listening environment, an increase (5-6db) of overall clean output (compared to the Nrt)!

IMHO, I have No Doubt the Sierra2 EX's would be a most excellent choice (performance and $$$) for beginning your Hi-Fidelity career and long-term enjoyment! :cool:

Ted

[hellolin]

Thank you for your long reply!

I am absolutely going to set up a trip to their show room in Orange County after this COVID stuff is over. As stated above, I already have a beginner hi-fi setup in my living room: a pair of Kef and a B & W center, a SVS sub and a pair of Klipsch RP600Ms. All entry level offerings of each brands. I already think this system is producing sound that I have never thought was possible before.

So are you telling me, the $1500 pair of the Serria-2EX speakers are better than some $6000 speakers that B & W offers? I originally thought that maybe it can rival the B & W 705 S2s, as that is my near future savings goal.

[davef]

Hi, I am a new guy into the world of hi fi, and I want to know a few things.

I know that B & W have their own house sound, and their sound profile is not neutral. But, they are one of the most famous name in the audio world, and my current front setup is a pair of Kef Q150 + a htm6 center that I picked up for half the price in best buy. I do think they sound great, but obviously it's because I am new to the game and haven't heard better, except anywhere I go, there are always a few people mentioning a little company called Ascend....So that's why I am here.

The reason why I want to compare to B & W is because I want to have a long term goal of saving for really good speakers. For you guys, and the owner Dave (?) here, if you had to make the comparison, which line of the B & W does the Sierra-2EX compare to? Is it good enough to go toe to toe with the 805 D2, which is supposed to be the queen of bookshelf speakers?

If so, then the Sierra-2EX is crazy in value then. I also live in SoCal and I am very interested in coming to the Ascend office to hear it personally. But problem is, as a new guy in the hi-fi game, I don't know what is good and how good without something to compare to. The best B & W speaker I heard are the 700 series towers in best buy, so I will most likely use that as a reference point.

Welcome hellolin,

Of all the B&W speakers, the 805 has been my consistent favorite, perhaps due to the coherency that a bookshelf sized 2-way provides. That said, I *MUCH* prefer the Sierra-2EX over the 805 diamond. I found the 805 diamond had remarkable dynamics, but it sounded overly bright with a recessed / laid back midrange. I also found the Sierra-2EX to provide a significantly more expansive soundstage, the dome in the 805D simply can not compare to the remarkably wide horizontal dispersion of the RAAL ribbon we are using.

Do not make the mistake of assuming retail price is any reflection of performance, our Sierra-2EX easily competes with the 805D in every performance category (805D does have a bit deeper bass due to the significantly larger cabinet). I for one have never heard anyone say the 805D2 is the queen of bookshelf speakers, but I will say B&W has and always has had fantastic marketing.

Give us a call, speak with Dina and make an appointment to come on down for a listen. We have been giving auditions nearly every day this week (mask is required though)

[theophile]

Thank you for your long reply!

I am absolutely going to set up a trip to their show room in Orange County after this COVID stuff is over. As stated above, I already have a beginner hi-fi setup in my living room: a pair of Kef and a B & W center, a SVS sub and a pair of Klipsch RP600Ms. All entry level offerings of each brands. I already think this system is producing sound that I have never thought was possible before.

So are you telling me, the $1500 pair of the Serria-2EX speakers are better than some $6000 speakers that B & W offers? I originally thought that maybe it can rival the B & W 705 S2s, as that is my near future savings goal.

HL,

Sierra 2 EX Better than the 805 D2's (now D3's)...another great question! However, in a different environment, 5 years ago with no direct comparison, I personally cannot, without bias, positively confirm this statement. But in My past experience (and recollection), today in my home music listening room with the Sierra 2 EX, my music, and to my ears...YES!

A trip to Ascend in San Clemente to hear the Sierra 2 EXs for yourself should be very informative and enlightening!!! I had considered 2 years ago flying in to hear the Sierra 2di's with their diamond tweeter and EX woofers, but as often happens, life got in the way! :rolleyes:

Ted

[davef]

So are you telling me, the $1500 pair of the Serria-2EX speakers are better than some $6000 speakers that B & W offers? I originally thought that maybe it can rival the B & W 705 S2s, as that is my near future savings goal.

How do you define "better"? If "better" means a more neutral / flat freq response, or widest horizontal dispersion, the Sierra-EX will beat any current B&W speaker. But again, how do you define better when it comes to speakers?

[hellolin]

Thank you for your replies. As the owner, I realize you have put your name into those products. If you do claim the 2EXs, for the price you are asking, are better than the 805 D3s, then I am extremely interested. I will definitely setting up an appoint to hear those in person.

Plus, the price of those speakers are so low relatively compared to the high level B & W speakers, even if I do like they dynamic/colored sound, I can still save up in the future to get them. The 2EX is in the price range of something I can consider within a year or two, not a long term goal which is something the 805s would have to do with their $6000 price tag.

Thank you for you replies, this is very helpful!

[racrawford65]

Dave gave some examples of how "better" is defined. Are those aligned with what you are looking for in a speaker?

IMO, price is not necessarily an indication of performance or quality. As you probably know, there are mark ups throughout the supply chain (manufacturer --> distributor(s) --> retail store/dealer) for just about every product (cars, appliances, clothes, food, hi-fi equipment, etc.) Levels of markup do vary by industry/market/product/application - some can get higher levels relative to others. HiFi via retail is one of those areas where there is alot of markup. In the case of the 805's, these 6K retail speakers could easily be 2K more or less direct from the manufacturer. Eg. 2K at mfg --> 50% markup to distributor (now speakers are 3K) --> 100% markup at retailer (6K).

I don't know Ascends actual profit margins. However, Dave has mentioned ranges in the past on various products/posts in the forum and, as I recall, they weren't near the levels that happen in retail.

[hellolin]

Thank you Mr. Crawford, I just need to have a point of reference to compare those to. Since it's an indie brand, I need to have a way to explain to others who might be hearing those amazing speakers exactly at what price point does Dave's product compare to in relating to retail hi-fi equipment? $6000, $8000, or over $10000?

[curtis]

Thank you Mr. Crawford, I just need to have a point of reference to compare those to. Since it's an indie brand, I need to have a way to explain to others who might be hearing those amazing speakers exactly at what price point does Dave's product compare to in relating to retail hi-fi equipment? $6000, $8000, or over $10000?
I have learned that many "audiophiles" that are fixed on cost, are already biased when it comes to comparison.
I once brought in a pair of CMT-340's into an audio shop. When they were hooked up and playing, the 2 other reps and another customer in the store came into the room and were very impressed with the sound. The shop owner also came in to listen. None of them knew the price of the 340's at the time, as I was comparing them to a pair of $1000-1200 pair of speakers. Once I told them they were $600...they lost interest.

[Pogre]

I have learned that many "audiophiles" that are fixed on cost, are already biased when it comes to comparison.
I once brought in a pair of CMT-340's into an audio shop. When they were hooked up and playing, the 2 other reps and another customer in the store came into the room and were very impressed with the sound. The shop owner also came in to listen. None of them knew the price of the 340's at the time, as I was comparing them to a pair of $1000-1200 pair of speakers. Once I told them they were $600...they lost interest.

I've heard stories about this happening all the time at trade shows. Folks will get drawn to a demo, ask about price then not give them a second look, no matter how good they sound. I've heard some pretty expensive speakers that I'd be upset if I paid what was being asked based on performance.

Like Dave said above, B&W do have one hell of a marketing team. That said, I did get to listen to a pair of 802 D3s and they're right up there with some of the best I've heard, but you need a second mortgage to buy them... minus the bass extension I think my Sierra ribbon towers are right there too. It's hard to say definitively since I wasn't able to A/B them but I don't feel like I'm missing much in comparison.

[theophile]

...I don't feel like I'm missing much in comparison.

I've also heard the 802 D3's...IMHO, you're not missing anything, other than a 2nd mortgage!!! :o

Ted