Wow..... [Archive] - Ascend Acoustics Community

muzz

01-17-2021, 12:09 PM

Forum is weird, I tried to edit a post, and it deleted it 😳...
I hooked up my Boston Acoustics BA7200 Amp ( Sherwood Newcastle A965) because of a bad rear left amp on the AVR988...Old Boy still works mint, he's been on the shelf since 12/12. Preamps are fine on the 988.

I gave you shit for the fitment of the 2EX Dave, I Apologise for that, I should have known better.
These Sound OUTSTANDING!

muzz

01-17-2021, 04:49 PM

I popped the driver on the right side....these were being HAMMERED for hours though, not many people do that to THAT EXTREME, I blame myself, not Ascend, so I won't put in a BS Warranty Claim. I will need a new Woof though Dave, I'll call Dina tomorrow.

Thanks

muzz

01-17-2021, 05:23 PM

I might need to move up to the towers, I need SUSTAINABLE HIGH VOLUME. I only have the BA7200, Which is rated at 100x7 continuous, it's an AB Amp, Monoblock design, so I'm good on power afaik.
Let's talk tomorrow Dave.

PS: This forum is weird now, I tried to edit, and it deleted, I had to go to cache to retrieve it.

Thanks

Gary

muzz

01-17-2021, 06:14 PM

The reason I am thinking about going to towers, is I'm thinking about spreading the heat load(more drivers).
Maybe I'm thinking wrong, but when I get going, it's cranking...for HOURS... Like today.🙄
I burnt that driver up, 100W for 4 hrs straight on one driver?

Totally my fault.

The left driver is well broken in though! 😂

muzz

01-17-2021, 07:14 PM

BTW guys, these are cranking right now(center driver Upgrade is in right Speaker), and have been since I replaced the driver....most folks would leave the room right now... and this volume isn't what it was at, it was FAR louder than this... there's this...and then there's that....and they aren't even REMOTELY close.
These Speakers take a beating, trust me on this... I'm pretty impressed... I was a drummer for years, I'm VERY used to VERY loud, and these can keep up...I kept pushing them higher and higher, longer and longer....
These are NOT going to pop, EVER, for 99.9% of the population, don't think that, I beat this to death with maximum power for hours on end, most couldn't...and WOULDN'T, be in this room while this was going on... I'm just a Dumbass that is stupid to be around that sound level for that long, and used to it...
Please don't think the Speaker is weak because of my trouble, it's NOT (Sounds MINT, and it's tough!) I'm guessing I'm <1% of the public, not better, just been around LOUD for a long time....you can call me #Dumbass, I'm ok with that! 😆

WTG DAVE, this is a #WINNER!👍

muzz

01-24-2021, 01:02 AM

They sound so good, I'm thinking of upgrading my sub...
These sound MINT.

muzz

01-26-2021, 04:38 PM

They don't care for fast LOUD metal IMO, they start to sound like the SE TWEETER,Under duress.
They are stressed hard.
Carly Simon? Perfect.
I'm listening to Numerous bands at numerous volumes...mostly hard rock like rage, but I've obviously bagged outside this...
Imma give a REAL BAG, I don't know another way, and Immma push anything and everything.
I guess it all happens how you listen,and your room...
Whatever, I've done this for awhile, my amp is good, and I Love EVERYONE.
SPEAKERS are Great, I need better., Little drivers can't handle power for days, and I listen to power for days.
Good Speakers? I didn't measure, but they sound top shelf.
Power? Eh, I popped a driver, but I pounded it Mercicurlessly for hours...THAT IS NOT CLOSE TO NORMAL ABUSE, TOTALLY MY FAULT, and I ADMIT IT.
Dave probably hates me, but I punished this shit ,and told the truth... it's Not the Speaker,I beat it to death.
Will they sound great? Absolutely, Ascend is top Shelf.
Gimme bigger stronger drivers! 😆

davef

01-26-2021, 04:45 PM

Hey Muzz,

You need towers...

Pogre

01-27-2021, 06:43 AM

Ha.

Yup. Get the towers. I started out with a pair of Sierra 2s. Found an awesome deal on Craigslist. Love them, they sound great, but I need volume and have a large room. The towers are up to the task and minus the deepest bass sound just as big as my SVS Ultra towers. They're more sensitive too so you should be able to get more out of them from your 100 wpc amp.

I've spent the last few months breaking myself into the towers and boy oh boy, I sure do love them. I just ordered the Horizon with the RAAL upgrade to complete my set. I had a 5.2 Ultra setup, but I'm officially all Ascend now! The Horizon finishes my 5.0 bed layer, all ribbon speakers now!

jimb

01-27-2021, 10:51 AM

Hey Muzz,

You need towers...

With which tweeter?

davef

01-27-2021, 09:58 PM

With which tweeter?

RAAL Ribbon...

muzz

01-28-2021, 05:11 PM

We'll...the 2EX Experiment is over, I burnt them both up, there is NO sound from either speaker. 😟
The 170's were put back, and they're both cranking, as usual...
The 170's can't handle the high end though, so they'll hardly ever get punished like the 2EX Did(although they have been punished plenty since I got them many years ago)..shame, I really liked those 2EX.
Cost a few bucks, but it is what it is.
No BS Warranty Claim, I pushed those really hard.
Dave, build something with a 1"+ VC Please!, we don't need 30's bass for everything, gimme 50 with massive power handling and a Ribbon, I can do subs....
I know, I remember when folks were bashing you for weak bass(I was here)..Subs are FAR more prevalent now though.
Deep bass from a bookshelf is great, high end/power midbass with a fabulous Ribbon would be great as well....not sure how that would work, but I'd like to hear a sample of it!🤘👍😆

Thanks for EVERYTHING over the years Dave, you've always been as solid as they come.

Gary

davef

01-28-2021, 05:27 PM

Hey Gary,

With several thousands now sold, you are the first to burn up a pair Sierra-2EX. Are you sure you weren't clipping your amp or receiver? What amp or receiver were you using?

Dave, build something with a 1"+ VC Please!

Gary, the VC in the EX woofer is greater than 1".

If you want crazy volume levels, go with the 340's.

muzz

01-28-2021, 06:44 PM

I already answered this, but...not sure what happened to that post.... whatever...
The AVR/PREAMP IS A DENON AVR 988, Same as a Denon AVR2808, this pairing is the SAME ONE my nephew burnt up my Sierra 1's we discussed years ago(while we were partying outside, that was in my basement at the time).
Is the preamp poor/distortion riddled?
The amp is solid, it's a Boston Acoustics A7200, a SHERWOOD NEWCASTLE A965 with a different cover, Curtis had one, he knows.
The 1st time I was worried it was the AVR, that's why I grabbed the amp...Then I blew up the other 2...they WERE punished, but this AVR(ALONE) punished bigger Speakers for years before it got retired due to HDMI PORTS.
Not sure what's up, I wish I did, because the 2EX Sound MINT.

muzz

01-28-2021, 06:57 PM

Soupial

01-28-2021, 07:11 PM

Just out of curiosity, what kind of volume levels are we talking about here? Do you have a decibel meter?

muzz

01-28-2021, 07:19 PM

I do, but I don't use a meter when I listen.😳🙄
It's VERY Very LOUD.
I've already admitted it was my fault, what are you looking for?

muzz

01-28-2021, 07:25 PM

I've ADMITTED IT WAS MY FAULT.
What do you want to know?

muzz

01-28-2021, 07:47 PM

Think 100wx2(that amp has been bench tested, it's A SOLID 100x2 [Actually x7]),in a 12x24 room... pretty much full tilt for hours.
I have a meter, but I didn't use it while listening....WHY would I, I don't GAS about sound level, I care about high power sound.... it was extreme, 90% would leave the room in <5 minutes.
It was LAF.

davef

01-28-2021, 08:03 PM

We are just trying to assist you Gary. Do you understand the relationship between speaker sensitivity, power, and listening distance?

If you can share with us how loud you like to listen at, and at what distance your main listening position is, we can make recommendations that such that you will not destroy your speakers.

If you are listening as loud as I suspect you are (trying to reach 100+ dB), 100 watts of power into a speaker rated at 85dB is not going to cut it in a room this size, not even close. Your amp will clip badly...

The 170's are 4dB more sensitive than S2EX, that is considerable. To reach the same volume level as 100 watts of power into the Sierra-2EX, CBM-170's would require only 32 watts of power. This is why the 170's are still functioning - your amp is able to provide enough power (although with your description of how the 170 tweeter sounds like at high power, you might be clipping with these as well)

How far back are you sitting Gary?

muzz

01-28-2021, 08:08 PM

Not that it matters, but I played drums for ~ 20 years, including playing out in clubs.
I'm pretty used to high volume, I "stupidily" never even used earplugs... nevermind the concerts I went to..... 😳😟.
I'm probably not the average person as hearing, but last I checked I was pretty solid, that was 1.5 years ago(Covid).
I was able to distinguish how good the EX Sounded, even at max volume....
I guess I must be deaf.

muzz

01-28-2021, 08:12 PM

I'm 11' +/- from the speakers Dave.

muzz

01-28-2021, 08:17 PM

I'm not mad about ANYTHING DAVE, I'm good bud.
I Haven't blamed anyone but myself, I thought I made that clear...if not, "It's my fault".
It sucks, but I'm a crazy person at times....

muzz

01-28-2021, 09:09 PM

Anyone that is following my Shit-Show....
These 2EX Speakers Sound MINT, I listen at EXTREME volumes for long durations, there is no way this will happen at this distance for this long at a time...
These take a beating, and you'll twirl you're fire poker while listening.
These sound Outstanding!🤘👍

These Speakers are literally A BARGAIN at their price.

I don't Lie, I wouldn't be here telling a friend it wasn't for me if I did.
Dave is #TopShelf, anyone that says different has issues.
Do y'all think I want to tell Dave I'm crazy and it doesn't work for me? Dude is awesome... wake up...😆

muzz

01-28-2021, 11:40 PM

You aren't going to beat these, dave is fair.

theophile

01-29-2021, 07:52 AM

You aren't going to beat these, dave is fair.

Hi Gary,

Have to totally agree...David and Ascend Acoustics are truly class acts in the audio business. I'll be receiving my Sierra 2-EX's next week and have extreme confidence that they'll provide me Many years of Superb 3D 2 channel stereo music!!

In 45 years of experience and exposure to reproduced music and a 35 year career in industrial safety settings, I've seen what excessive occupational and recreational sound (music & noise) exposure can do. FWIW, please take time to read and absorb this informative article HERE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise-induced_hearing_loss)! If you already understand, don't care and willing to accept the consequences (future deafness), then that's your choice and I apologize for bringing this topic up. Be assured, even though age and "cumulative trauma" to hearing can't be reversed, You can greatly extend at what ripe old age you'll need hearing aids!! :cool:

Ted

muzz

01-30-2021, 08:33 PM

Thanks Ted, I appreciate your input. ��

muzz

01-30-2021, 08:38 PM

Is there an option to put the NRT ON THE 340's? I don't see it.
I already have a 340 CC, I'd like to see the NRT TWEETER instead of the normal, which gets too bright at high volume IMO.
THANKS

muzz

01-30-2021, 10:41 PM

We'll, I figured something out....
My AVR988 Is a killer...my 170 tweeters are dead all of the sudden...you can hear that,!
Wow....time for a new amp/pre... I've SMASHED 5 Speakers it seems...lotsa $. ��
Funny thing, it didn't Sound off, it must've been putting out nasty harmonics or something...I really don't know, but this AVR is the death of 5 Speakers now... it's gotta go.

muzz

01-30-2021, 11:47 PM

I just ordered another AVR, I can't play this, it costs alot of $, and grief.��

theophile

01-31-2021, 01:43 AM

To get a 3db increase in music output requires a doubling of amplifier power! Typically, recorded amplified music has +10db of Dynamic transient peaks over the continuous power demands. Music recording playback control (aka:Stereo system) is strictly dictated by the listeners volume settings!

In a real world example, a 100W rms rated amplifier (receiver) would actually have only 10 watts of clean continuous musical output with a clean [U]"Headroom of 100 watts" to cover the musical peaks (10db increase=10X the power needs)!

What happens when you ask this amp for 50 watts of continuous musical power output? The amp tries to pump out 500 watts to cover the dynamic musical peaks and Craps Out. It spits out tremendous distortion levels and horrible transient sounds that causes tweeters to spit out fire and woofer cones and suspensions to quickly disintegrate (I know as I was there when it happen)! In other words, it ran out of gas and can quickly destroy speaker drivers (even the best) and eventually...itself! IMHO the quickest and easiest solution to sustain high volume levels of musical playback is "Higher Efficiency Speakers"!!

FWIW, HERE (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=stereo+10+db+dynamics+%3D10X+the+power?&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiG8JSp6cXuAhWRdd8KHZFnBIQQBSgAegQICRAv&biw=1920&bih=949) are a few good articles on the subject of sound, music and the Decibel (db)! :cool:

Ted

muzz

01-31-2021, 05:50 AM

I'm aware of this Ted, that's why I only have a solid 100WPC amp instead of chasing a higher amp.
The AVR I just bought is "only" rated for 90w....
BTW, my theater system has nothing but HE Speakers (other than heights), 94 or better... including the subs...
I get it, sometimes I prefer to stay up here.

Thanks for the help.

theophile

01-31-2021, 07:10 AM

You're welcome, Gary!

After researching the archive threads (like THIS (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?5284-Maximum-safe-measured-constant-spl-for-sierra-raal-tower&p=43101&highlight=#post43101) one...BTW, great calculator (http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html) ;)), seems my intentions were for naught as you Do understand the DB vs power relationships!! Apologize for my miss judgement...:o

Hopefully, you'll find some great playback solutions to fit your needs! :cool:

Ted

Pogre

01-31-2021, 02:42 PM

Passive aggressive thread..? :rolleyes:

I played drums for years, have a big room and like to crank it up loud sometimes. I started with Sierra 2s. They get pretty damned loud and I sit 15' away. There are however, limits to what a bookshelf speaker with a 6" driver and the smaller 64-10 tweeter can do man. You can tell when a speaker is straining. I could tell with mine. That's why I decided if I want to listen at those levels I needed the towers.

I just don't understand how, or why someone would be so reckless with such nice speakers, blow one driver and then finish off the rest!

Next time you decide order a 2EX upgrade kit, please, send it to me instead of melting it!

muzz

02-01-2021, 09:01 PM

Thanks Man, appreciate the invite.
I took care of the problem...and it's so far out there most wouldn't guess....
I'm not a person that hates compression Drivers, maybe others are...
I ordered a pair of discounted JBL 590'S, Although at medium volume they'll give up quality, they'll survive the onslaught when I NEED to go crazy..
OBVIOUSLY these are pretty much as far apart as you can get.
Good horns don't bother me, the Klipsch I've HEARD do, but these are compression Drivers, not tweeters behind a horn.
I know some will say bad this...save it please.
I love Ascend, and always will, Dave designs Quality Speakers, he definitely has my respect.

muzz

02-01-2021, 09:35 PM

Someone is weak though, they made this thread unavailable on that browser.
C'mon guys, I am a crazy person that needs maximum Volume, I'm do far off the tee norm it's Ridiculous.
Joe Blow + would run out of this room when I get it going, some of you get this.
Those 2EX are Ridonkulous, Most couldn't stand that kind of volume for even a minute, nevermind 15 minutes.
The 590's are a different animal totally, and they are HUGE.

muzz

02-01-2021, 09:47 PM

The 2EX opened up my eyes, it was THAT GOOD.
I'm a nut, that takes NOTHING from what I thought.
The 2EX was MINT, I Loved them, they are top shelf.

davef

02-01-2021, 11:08 PM

I'm 11' +/- from the speakers Dave.

At 11' feet back, you will need a minimum of 150 watts of power to reach *peaks* of 100dB with speakers rated at 86dB sensitivity. I suspect you are attempting to reach continuous volumes of 100dB, with 110dB peaks (concert level). This would require 1500 watts! If you plan on playing at these volume levels, I strongly recommend speakers with a minimum sensitivity of 98dB, + subwoofer.

Is there an option to put the NRT ON THE 340's? I don't see it.
I already have a 340 CC, I'd like to see the NRT TWEETER instead of the normal, which gets too bright at high volume IMO.
THANKS

This isn't a tweeter issue, this is a clipping issue. The tweeter in the 340 is capable of handling just as much power as the NrT dome, actually a bit more - as it has a longer VC. Either you are clipping your receiver/amplifier - or you are reaching the mechanical or thermal limitations of the woofers, thus the frequency response becomes unbalanced and the tweeter response becomes more prevalent.

We'll, I figured something out....
My AVR988 Is a killer...my 170 tweeters are dead all of the sudden...you can hear that,!
Wow....time for a new amp/pre... I've SMASHED 5 Speakers it seems...lotsa $. ��
Funny thing, it didn't Sound off, it must've been putting out nasty harmonics or something...I really don't know, but this AVR is the death of 5 Speakers now... it's gotta go.

Sign of clipping... Taking the tweeters out....

Someone is weak though, they made this thread unavailable on that browser.

?? We have no control over what search engines or what browsers access our forum. Not sure what you are inferring.

muzz

02-05-2021, 06:47 PM

Here we are, these MONSTERS showed up...glad there's not damage, these are over 4' tall, and weigh 70lbs each...
Let's just say it was a serious chore to bring them inside, unpack, and set them up...like serious workout, I was sweating profusely after setting one...
Here we go....

I've been told these take a bit to "break in", I've always been skeptical of that....

Without AUDYSSEY being done (Big deal in this shitty room) the 2EX sound better...
These Speakers are pretty fkn large, they are 50" tall, like 12 wide and 16 deep...
Old school BRUTE FORCE! ��
As of now, the 2EX SOUNDED BETTER, and they are less than a quarter the size.
Imma give these a little and run Audyssey like I did for the 2EX, but right NOW?
2EX
I'm sorry if some of you got upset, I'm only telling you FACTS, I beat those to death, I ADMITTED IT!
I LOVE Ascend, otherwise I wouldn't have spent a pretty fair amount of $ to upgrade my S1.
Please don't call me a hater, that's SO far from the truth.
Dave is SOLID AF!

Greg is pretty good as well, this is listed as his last design....Dave knows who I'm talking about.
Moral?

2EX are INCREDIBLE Speakers.

muzz

02-05-2021, 10:03 PM

Sheer Output? JBL, no question.
Sound Quality? 2EX, with that said, the 590 doesn't suck, the 2EX Ribbonsare pretty exceptional!
Soundfield? This is so opinion oriented it's pathetic, you hear all the cliches...��...
IF there's anything to it? JBL IMO, they sound wider, you gotta remember just HOW BIG these Speakers are, the horn alone is
BIGGER than the 2EX.

If you listen at medium volume? No Question, 2EX.
Pound your system relentlessly?
Jbl

JUST my humble opinion, don't rag on me for no reason please.

Thanks for looking.

G