Bi-Amp good idea or not?

[fastc4]

Little background, I have the following setup

Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers
Ascend Acoustics Center Channel
Denon x4300h 9.1 AMP
Rhymik FV18 (massive subwoofer)
in-wall rear speakers
Music Hall turntable

Just purchased a new turntable and getting back into vinyl. Would like more volume in the room and thinking of using some unused channels of my amp to bi-amp my front/center channel Sierra Towers.

Checking to see if it's a good idea or not. Would like ability to have more volume for audio/phono as it just sounds awesome and I'm sure my neighbors enjoy it too :-)

Thought of just bi-amp'ing front 2 speakers but not sure how volume would work for TV/Movies if center channel wasn't included in the power bump.

Thanks in advance for any advice before I start ordering more cable.

-Ron

[Mag_Neato]

Ascend speakers typically are not bi-amp capable as there are usually only 1 pair of speaker terminals.

Aside from playing with the settings in your X4300 AVR to see if that will address your concern for more output, another, and probably more effective option would be to look into adding an outboard multi channel amp with higher power to drive the front sound stage, including the center. Something like an Emotiva or Outlaw amp, possibly even one of the Monolith amps from Monoprice.

I have a X3200 powering a 5.2.2 Atmos setup using Klipsch in-wall & in-ceiling speakers with dual Rythmik LV12-F subs and am not lacking for output.

[racrawford65]

Good suggestions, Ed.

I'll add:
* Move your L/R closer to main listening position. (I'm assuming you listen to vinyl in 2.0 or 2.1).
* Try corner loading your mains and/or sub.
* Which Ascend center are you using?
* What phono preamp / cartridge are you using? Could always add a phono preamp with adjustable gain to boost the signal going into your Denon or add a SUT (Bob's Devices).

[Mag_Neato]

Wow..... Bob thinks a lot of his Devices!($$$)

More good suggestions.

[racrawford65]

Yes, he does. He is really helpful, though - awesome customer service. I bought mine from a dealer (AudioAdvisor, I think) and was able to get a bit of a discount. They sometimes show up on the used market. Another option is to check with Steve at VAS - he makes them as well.

[fastc4]

Thanks Ed. You are correct I was assuming dual speaker terminals. My old speakers had them, never really noticed until now on the Ascends. Would have been a quick fix I think but oh well.

I'll look at adding an amp.

-Ron

[fastc4]

Listening in 2.1. Sub is in corner now. Using the Tower matched center channel from Ascend Sierra Horizon.

Using a Music Hall 1.3 with Audio Technica AT3600L cartridge. It has a pre-amp built in but not using as I'm using my Phone input on the amp. Not sure I can use the pre-amp (line output) and still go into the Phone input on the amp. I'll look at the doc.

Not sure what a SUT )Bob's Devices refers to.

Thanks
Ron

[SunByrne]

Just purchased a new turntable and getting back into vinyl. Would like more volume in the room and thinking of using some unused channels of my amp to bi-amp my front/center channel Sierra Towers.

Even if you could bi-amp the Sierras, this doesn't work as well as one might hope. Your typical consumer-level Denon AVR (not a knock, I use one as well) only has one main power supply so it doesn't really double your wattage when you do this.


Not sure what a SUT )Bob's Devices refers to.

https://www.bobsdevices.com/copy-of-vpi

"Spendy" might be an appropriate term here.

The "outboard amp for the mains" suggestion is probably the way to go. The Denon is rated at what, 125wpc with 2 channels driven? And Denon is probably a little generous with those stats; you're probably really only getting ~115 wpc.

So, if your current setup is almost loud enough and you only need a little more power, the Emotiva A-300 (150wpc) will probably get the job done, and it's only $400.

If you need a bunch more power but don't need to max it out, I'd look at a pair of Outlaw 2220s (200wpc). Double the price over the A-300, unless you can find them on sale, which does happen.

If you need a lot more power I'd get an Emotiva XPA-2 (300wpc). 2.5 times the price of the A-300 but if you can't get it loud enough with this, you can't get it loud enough with the Sierras at all, as that's the max rated continuous power for the speaker.

[racrawford65]

SUT - step up transformer - basically raises the output of a moving coil cartridge (MC) to that of a moving magnet. MC are typically 0.8 or lower mV output, MM around 4-5 mV. In this way, can use MM phono stage with a MC cartridge (or, as in my case, use the MM inputs instead of MC inputs on my Chinook - better S/N ratio).

I'm not so sure that the slight increase in power with the A-300 is going to make a significant difference in volume going by general rule of thumb is double the power gets one about 3 db more. So, I'd look at either the outlaws, XPA (but would see if you could find a Gen 2 or Gen 1 used) or check out Monoprice Monolith (made by ATI).

Any idea on how much gain the Denon MM input has? I couldn't find it doing an internet search. If it's on the low side, you may want to try the line out from the TT to a stand-alone phono preamp (with more gain then the one in the Denon) to an analog input on the Denon. Musical Fidelity and Moon make some nice phono preamps that are reasonably priced.

[SunByrne]

I think the Music Hall 1.3 already has a preamp and outputs at normal line level anyway, so I'm not sure that an SUT is the right solution here.

@racrawford65 is right on power, the A-300 was not a very good suggestion.

[racrawford65]

Sunbyrne - agree that the SUT isn't a solution for him and his current equipment. Just answering his question as to what it does.

By the way, you're correct in that the TT already has a preamp (you can either use the TT preamp or flip a switch to use an outboard preamp).

[choirbass]

I think it’s possible to have 2 sets of binding posts on the Sierra Towers. Try asking Dave to see if he’d be able to include 2 sets.

[Mag_Neato]

I think it’s possible to have 2 sets of binding posts on the Sierra Towers. Try asking Dave to see if he’d be able to include 2 sets.

I believe this would require changes to the crossover, not exactly sure what those changes are, but it's definitely more complicated than just including an additional set of binding posts.

Dave may or may not have already considered this. Either way, true bi-amping has to be implemented correctly or it can make things worse.

[davef]

I think it’s possible to have 2 sets of binding posts on the Sierra Towers. Try asking Dave to see if he’d be able to include 2 sets.

Yes, while we don't advertise it - we can assemble the speakers to have bi-wire inputs. There are additional fees to this and we have done this for about a dozen customers over the years.