New 5.4 System: Sierra Towers VS 2EX+FM8s?

[solrage]

I'm looking to put together a new 5.4 system really soon and one setup I'm strongly considering is Ascend. However, one concern I have is with the small-ish woofers on the Sierra Tower. One genre of music I listen to is orchestral music, which often has very high dynamic ranges. On my old system the loudest I ever measured it was 110db max with 117db peak. That was extremely brief on a 7.1 recording of a modern symphony with a lot of low-bass output, so it's an extreme/rare example, but I would expect to regularly hit climaxes that would push over/around 100-105db and I worry how well a couple of 5.25" woofers would handle that (especially distortion-wise).

An alternate possibility I'm considering is getting 5 2EX monitors and supplementing each with a Rythmik FM8 from ~50Hz-250Hz, essentially using them as mid-bass woofers, then using some larger Rythmik's (perhaps F18s) for the deeper bass.

I'm really curious how these two options would compare, so here's my questions:

1. How does the mid-range driver/tweeter of the Sierrra Towers compare to the mid-range driver/tweeter of the 2EX? Does one or the other measure/sound significantly better?

2. What's the difference in sensitivity/power handling between them? On paper, the towers would seem to be higher at 90db/300watts, but I assume that's affected by the woofers and would be different if we were just considering the mids/tweeter.

3. How big of a difference would there be between the Sierra Towers 5.25" woofers VS the FM8?

4. I was also curious about what frequencies the bass/mid crossover is on the Sierra Towers.

There's not a huge difference in price between each option: about $7500 for 5 Sierra RAAL Towers VS $9000 for the 2EX-FM8 setup, so for that difference I'd rather just go for whichever is better.

[mikesiskav]

For high volumes, go with the towers. Even with subs involved the towers will play louder with less distortion. And you should use subs, even with the towers, considering the volume level you're talking about.

[solrage]

For high volumes, go with the towers. Even with subs involved the towers will play louder with less distortion. And you should use subs, even with the towers, considering the volume level you're talking about.I'm going to be using subs with either setup, the comparison is between towers VS 2EX+FM8s. The FM8s would essentially be taking the place of the tower's bass woofers. So the comparison would be between the mids/tweeters of the towers VS 2EXs.

[mikesiskav]

I'm going to be using subs with either setup, the comparison is between towers VS 2EX+FM8s. The FM8s would essentially be taking the place of the tower's bass woofers. So the comparison would be between the mids/tweeters of the towers VS 2EXs.

Ok, so you're talking about Towers + F18s vs S2-EX + FM8s + F18s?

I still think the tower is the way to go. Yes, the FM8's will have more output capability in the 250hz to 80hz range, but that's relatively small range compared to the rest of the frequency spectrum. Above that, the towers are better especially for high volume levels.

The tower has 6-7dB more output capability than the S2-EX.

Removing <250hz duties from the S2-EX won't allow it to play as loud as the tower. The RAAL tweeter in the tower can play louder and around 1000hz lower frequency than the RAAL in the S2-EX.

[solrage]

Ok, so you're talking about Towers + F18s vs S2-EX + FM8s + F18s?

I still think the tower is the way to go. Yes, the FM8's will have more output capability in the 250hz to 80hz range, but that's relatively small range compared to the rest of the frequency spectrum. Above that, the towers are better especially for high volume levels.

The tower has 6-7dB more output capability than the S2-EX.

Removing <250hz duties from the S2-EX won't allow it to play as loud as the tower. The RAAL tweeter in the tower can play louder and around 1000hz lower frequency than the RAAL in the S2-EX.Yes, that's what I was talking about.

Thanks for the info. Essentially I wasn't sure if the extra sensitivity/power handling of the towers was just due to the bass woofers and whether the mid/tweeter of the towers were essentially the same as that on the 2EX. Looks like that isn't the case and the mids/tweeter of the tower is still better in terms of sensitivity/volume.

[RicardoJoa]

The real issue is the integration with the fm8 and f18 into the system.

[solrage]

The real issue is the integration with the fm8 and f18 into the system.I had a few ideas on how to make this work. I'm also planning on purchasing an AVR with Dirac and getting their Bass Management add on. I'm not sure how far Dirac allows you to adjust/set each output/channel in terms of crossovers, high/low-pass filters, but there's a possibility I could simply integrate them with the AVR/Dirac.

If that ended up not being a possibility, another option would be to purchase an additional DSP with at least 5-inputs/10-outputs and run the L/R/C/SL/SR channels into the DSP, then split each into two channels, setting the high/low-pass filters for each speaker/FM8 output, then running the 10-outputs to each FM8 and the power amp for the speakers. My old Legacy system had a similar outboard DSP so I'm somewhat familiar with how they work (not an expert or anything, but I'm a fast learner) and could just experiment a lot with REW measurements until I got the levels and delays right. Plus, there's plenty of smarty pants online who are happy to help with projects like this.

Or, I may just say "screw it" and go with 5 Sierra RAAL towers. Much simpler, though I still worry about how those 5.25" woofers will handle that 100-200Hz region at very high SPLs.

[racrawford65]

I've not used Dirac in an AVR, but from what I've read , very flexible. So is Anthem's ARC Genesis, if you are considering a new AVR with bass management.

As to integrating your subs, perhaps set your cross-overs for the bed speakers to 250 HZ so the AVR sends everything from 250 and below to the subs. Sub preout from AVR to a miniDSP 2x4 HD, and outputs from miniDSP to subs (eg Output 1 to FM8 1, Output 2 to FM8 2, Output 3 to F18 1, Output 4 to F18 2). You gain gain match / time align / set hi/low cross-overs / EQ subs in the miniDSP.

[davef]

For this application and to reach the volume levels you like, I definitely recommend going with our towers + subwoofer.

[solrage]

I've not used Dirac in an AVR, but from what I've read , very flexible. So is Anthem's ARC Genesis, if you are considering a new AVR with bass management.

As to integrating your subs, perhaps set your cross-overs for the bed speakers to 250 HZ so the AVR sends everything from 250 and below to the subs. Sub preout from AVR to a miniDSP 2x4 HD, and outputs from miniDSP to subs (eg Output 1 to FM8 1, Output 2 to FM8 2, Output 3 to F18 1, Output 4 to F18 2). You gain gain match / time align / set hi/low cross-overs / EQ subs in the miniDSP.Thanks for the advice. Of course, this entire option depends on me finding bookshelf-ish speakers with high sensitivity/power handling that measure well and don't cost a fortune, which is not easy! So far, the Sierra Towers seem to be my top choice of all the possible options.

[solrage]

For this application and to reach the volume levels you like, I definitely recommend going with our towers + subwoofer.Thanks for the input, Dave. Do you think the Sierra Tower woofers will be OK on high SPL climaxes? I do worry about the distortion in that ~100-250Hz range at those levels.

[davef]

Thanks for the input, Dave. Do you think the Sierra Tower woofers will be OK on high SPL climaxes? I do worry about the distortion in that ~100-250Hz range at those levels.

There are a lot of variables to this. How far back will you be sitting from the speakers? What is your room gain like? Here at our facility, we have had no issues running the towers combined with subs reaching 110dB+ You will likely want to cross the speakers to the sub between 80-100Hz, to maximize volume level capabilities.

[solrage]

There are a lot of variables to this. How far back will you be sitting from the speakers? What is your room gain like? Here at our facility, we have had no issues running the towers combined with subs reaching 110dB+ You will likely want to cross the speakers to the sub between 80-100Hz, to maximize volume level capabilities.Room is 15.5' x 13.5' x 8'. Seat will be about 7-8' away from the front L/R speakers. Speakers will be about 4' from the back wall and 2-3' from the side-walls.

[davef]

Room is 15.5' x 13.5' x 8'. Seat will be about 7-8' away from the front L/R speakers. Speakers will be about 4' from the back wall and 2-3' from the side-walls.

Thanks for replying, at only 7-8' away, you will have absolutely no issues playing at reference level with our towers, provided you have the wattage to do so.