High strand speaker cable

[mikesiskav]

A lot of people, and even some speaker cable companies, recommend high strand speaker cable. The idea being that high strand cable has more surface area than low strand or solid core and that this reduces resistance.

From what I gather, they are referring to "skin effect" which causes signals to travel near the surface of the wire. Therefore, more surface area = better signal. There's a couple articles, however, that say that this really only has significance at very high frequencies such as 100khz and above. And that from 20hz to 20khz skin effect doesn't really matter.

Any thoughts? Would love to hear from any enginerds out there. Maybe Dave, if you aren't too busy? :cool:

[audiohead]

i am not an engineer degree on paper but electronic Technical service (associates degree) for a long time and there is merit to the high stranded concept vs solid with high grade copper, as to it making a noticeable difference debate,? that will still go on.
As a youngster ,Mom was missing lamp cords and extension cords from the box marked "Christmas" that got repurposed for that same reason(speaker wire). they were the cheapest method of getting high stranded copper wire at the time, sorry mom! LOL (I knew that and used it then)
Personally, one Christmas my wife and i upgraded all our signal and speaker wire to Monster brand for about $500.00 ish plus. Did we actually hear a difference, YES we both did immediately YMMV?
Recently we bought a new 4k UHD tv and installed a line conditioner, plugged the equipment into their proper spots for proper grounding and YES it too made a visual difference , so i can assume an audio also.
Some may say i am full of it but c'est la vie aka...that's life..

I heard both sides and i vote yes

[Pogre]

I um, I post over at Audioholics a lot and if there's one thing that group hates it's cable woo woo.

I say if you wanna try it and you can find some high strand cable cheaply enough there's no harm. I would not spend more for it tho. I don't think there's a difference and don't buy into cable magic.

[audiohead]

LOL, I knew this was a loaded question.
I too would like to hear input from the boss, Dave...? after all, the speaker connectors he uses is a bit more than a wire hanging out the back. He could save so much cost and eliminate the gold too!.
HDMI and Ethernet cables have speed ratings, don't they? I sure would like to know what they do to make them "faster". I have a few guesses like the number of strands and % of copper.
I also know there is inductance and capacitance in wire strands. Since I am in the Technical field , there should be a technical answer to this also.
Surely by now there is a better answer than , I spent alot of money on wires ,so i am going to say yes or no way i am spending that kind of money on wires!?

[Pogre]

https://youtu.be/VlYjQBTx-rs

[Pogre]

https://youtu.be/lG-3KyURXqk

There are plenty more where that came from! lol

[Pogre]

https://youtu.be/UoVixorZTDM

[Pogre]

LOL, I knew this was a loaded question.
I too would like to hear input from the boss, Dave...? after all, the speaker connectors he uses is a bit more than a wire hanging out the back. He could save so much cost and eliminate the gold too!.
HDMI and Ethernet cables have speed ratings, don't they? I sure would like to know what they do to make them "faster". I have a few guesses like the number of strands and % of copper.
I also know there is inductance and capacitance in wire strands. Since I am in the Technical field , there should be a technical answer to this also.
Surely by now there is a better answer than , I spent alot of money on wires ,so i am going to say yes or no way i am spending that kind of money on wires!?

Well don't forget about all the issues with strand jumping electrons! If you're not using solid core you'll have electrons flying all over the place, degrading the signal!

Yes, strand jumping is a thing with cable folks...

[audiohead]

LOL, that's awesome! I understand it all. I'm going to head over to AH and check them out. I was at AVS for a bit getting a touchy feel and screw that! too much advertisement and i was lost.
Paid for site and opinions.

"to me", it sounds like using a heavier AKA 10awg wire is solving the problem of RLC in the audio range.

I also can conclude by me jumping to Monster wire, I was using junk cable for speaker wires, AKA 18gu lamp and extension chords.

I love :What religion are you using" cryogenic,hanging them off the floor etc....I'm just a sarcasm guy LOL!

wow, i see you posted 2 more... i just got through the first

[Pogre]

LOL, that's awesome! I understand it all. I'm going to head over to AH and check them out. I was at AVS for a bit getting a touchy feel and screw that! too much advertisement and i was lost.
Paid for site and opinions.

"to me", it sounds like using a heavier AKA 10awg wire is solving the problem of RLC in the audio range.

I also can conclude by me jumping to Monster wire, I was using junk cable for speaker wires, AKA 18gu lamp and extension chords.

I love :What religion are you using" cryogenic,hanging them off the floor etc....I'm just a sarcasm guy LOL!

wow, i see you posted 2 more... i just got through the first

Yeah that first video started out pretty tongue in cheek, lol. Gene is an electrical engineer and has some of the best measurement gear for just about every measurable aspect there is when it comes to all things audio. The whole site was founded with an objective no-nonsense, scientific approach to audio.

He has found some measurable differences between cables, but nothing that has any effect on what we hear. Well, with some exceptions where there was actually degredation with some of the more expensive ones!

[Qman]

Yeah that first video started out pretty tongue in cheek, lol. Gene is an electrical engineer and has some of the best measurement gear for just about every measurable aspect there is when it comes to all things audio. The whole site was founded with an objective no-nonsense, scientific approach to audio.

He has found some measurable differences between cables, but nothing that has any effect on what we hear. Well, with some exceptions where there was actually degredation with some of the more expensive ones!

Ask Dave what wire he uses INSIDE his speakers. I've not read one thing about it on the Ascend site, so I'm gonna venture Dave's gonna say he's in the "doesnt make much difference" camp. And I would agree.
Keep resistance as low as possible, length as short as possible, (and keep the LRC wire lengths the same)
But i would not go as hi as 10 gauge....you start to add inductance. Note that some hi end wire is not hi strand, like Kimber...so thats just one datapoint.

[Pogre]

Ask Dave what wire he uses INSIDE his speakers. I've not read one thing about it on the Ascend site, so I'm gonna venture Dave's gonna say he's in the "doesnt make much difference" camp. And I would agree.
Keep resistance as low as possible, length as short as possible, (and keep the LRC wire lengths the same)
But i would not go as hi as 10 gauge....you start to add inductance. Note that some hi end wire is not hi strand, like Kimber...so thats just one datapoint.

I think as long as you're using copper (not cca) and have the appropriate gauge for your runs the rest is pretty inconsequential when it come to audio.

I'm no engineer tho and try to keep an open mind. If someone can prove with a DBT or something that their cables offer something special then I'll be a convert. So far, that's never happened to my knowledge and most of the folks making the claims tend to not want to participate in backing them up.

Just for fun, check these guys out. This'll make your ee blood boil, lol.

http://machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

[Qman]

I think as long as you're using copper (not cca) and have the appropriate gauge for your runs the rest is pretty inconsequential when it come to audio.

I'm no engineer tho and try to keep an open mind. If someone can prove with a DBT or something that their cables offer something special then I'll be a convert. So far, that's never happened to my knowledge and most of the folks making the claims tend to not want to participate in backing them up.

Just for fun, check these guys out. This'll make your ee blood boil, lol.

http://machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

Wow, some wild snake oil right there! Similar to folks selling "hospital grade" plugs and receptacles for audio equipment!

[audiohead]

OK, finisher #2 , 15min and the next is 19...ck that later.

Pseudoscience , don't even work on Startrek :)

battery led cable? someone is on the pipe!

still making sense to use a heavy awg wire and there is junk out there!

he does cover his ars a lot by using words like ":don't necessarily" "Sometimes" "Almost never""really don't"

#3 later...
but it DOES, but apparently not in the" audio range" is what i get now. love these posts Pogre! thx!

[mikesiskav]

Thanks for the feedback guys. It was an Audioholics article I read that explained how skin effect really doesn't matter for audio. However, I did see in another Audioholics video where Gene recommended high stranded cable but he didn't explain why. It seems to me that high strand, low strand, or even solid core cable makes no difference. I'm gonna hook up my speakers with Romex!

[white_darren]

It seems to me that high strand, low strand, or even solid core cable makes no difference.

That's not entirely true.


The truth is the more strands means more flexibility and ease in installing or dressing the cables in a rack. Most professional installers prefer a high strand speaker wire because it is much easier to dress, control, and route in the walls, ceilings, and into an equipment rack. (https://www.cablingplus.com/blog/read-this-before-buying-speaker-wire)

[Pogre]

That's not entirely true.

That's actually a really good reason for wanting high strand count cable, tho I don't think there would be any audible differences between it or regular ol' lower strand cable.

[white_darren]

That's actually a really good reason for wanting high strand count cable, tho I don't think there would be any audible differences between it or regular ol' lower strand cable.

Never suggested there was an audible difference. Merely highlighting that there are differences other than the hypothetical and oft debated audible.

[Pogre]

Never suggested there was an audible difference. Merely highlighting that there are differences other than the hypothetical and oft debated audible.

I wasn't sure, because I'm pretty certain the post you quoted and the subject of the thread is pertaining to audible differences.

[mikesiskav]

That's not entirely true.

That is true. High stranded cable is definitely more flexible and easier to pull and install. What I meant to say was there's no audible difference.

[jimb]

Also, high strand count (means fine gauge conductors) can take more flexing and handling over time without damage. That is not true for larger gauge conductors, such as 12GA ROMEX!