Sierra 2EX upgrade kit questions

[whitey019]

Dave,

This kit sounds peaks my interest, but thinking ahead the possibility also raises a few concerns.

1. How important is the fact that: 'Left / right pairs are matched by hand to within ± 1dB'? Obviously installing the upgrade kit in the Sierra 2 will eliminate the matched pair speakers.

2. I have been amazed by the detail and wide dispersion of the Sierra 2 that results in a soundstage that is both higher and wider than anything I've experienced previously. My only minor grip is that, at times, the Sierra 2 can sound a little thin in the lower midrange. Your description of the EX sounds like it might address this which is great, but I hope not at the expense of what I enjoy about the original Sierra 2.

3. After the upgrade I will have a pair of great Seas woofers and cross-overs just wasting away. Knowing me, I will either build a box or buy a knock-down flat pack kit of similar dimensions and configuration to the Sierra 2 and build another set of speakers. The only problem is I will need tweeters. Can you provide the specifications of the original cross-over to assist in finding an appropriate tweeter. Any recommendations other than your Raal, which is too expensive for my level of speaker building craftsmanship? Also, anything too expensive and it would just make sense to just buy a set of EXs instead of upgrading.

[Mag_Neato]

1. I'd imagine that the components will be matched regardless of whether you get them as an upgrade vs
complete speakers.

2. From reports I've "heard" they should still have the same qualities we love, but fuller mids as well.

3. The crossover for the Sierra-2's was specifically designed to integrate the RAAL with the SEAS Curv
Woofer and I'd suspect it would not work with anything else. Dave has traditionally taken the swapped
components back as he'd rather have them vs someone reselling them and having them "out there".

Each of us must weigh what makes sense regarding upgrading existing speakers vs selling existing speakers & buying new vs just buying new.

[davef]

Dave,

This kit sounds peaks my interest, but thinking ahead the possibility also raises a few concerns.

1. How important is the fact that: 'Left / right pairs are matched by hand to within ± 1dB'? Obviously installing the upgrade kit in the Sierra 2 will eliminate the matched pair speakers.

2. I have been amazed by the detail and wide dispersion of the Sierra 2 that results in a soundstage that is both higher and wider than anything I've experienced previously. My only minor grip is that, at times, the Sierra 2 can sound a little thin in the lower midrange. Your description of the EX sounds like it might address this which is great, but I hope not at the expense of what I enjoy about the original Sierra 2.

3. After the upgrade I will have a pair of great Seas woofers and cross-overs just wasting away. Knowing me, I will either build a box or buy a knock-down flat pack kit of similar dimensions and configuration to the Sierra 2 and build another set of speakers. The only problem is I will need tweeters. Can you provide the specifications of the original cross-over to assist in finding an appropriate tweeter. Any recommendations other than your Raal, which is too expensive for my level of speaker building craftsmanship? Also, anything too expensive and it would just make sense to just buy a set of EXs instead of upgrading.

All good questions:


1. How important is the fact that: 'Left / right pairs are matched by hand to within ± 1dB'? Obviously installing the upgrade kit in the Sierra 2 will eliminate the matched pair speakers.

For upgrade parts, all components are electrically tested against our reference standard. We hold the individual component to a very tight tolerance against the standard (effectively equivalent to +/- 1dB). However, due to tolerances, it is possible that one component can be in the +1 range while another also in the +1 range. This means that when assembled, worst case is that the overall result would be +/- 2dB. Fyi, typical industry standard for high performance speakers is +/- 3dB. So, while we can not guarantee a +/- 1dB match for speakers that have been upgraded with kits, the matching is still very close and even in worst case, likely to be completely inaudible. Hope I worded this so it makes sense, been too many sleepless nights this past week ;)


2. I have been amazed by the detail and wide dispersion of the Sierra 2 that results in a soundstage that is both higher and wider than anything I've experienced previously. My only minor grip is that, at times, the Sierra 2 can sound a little thin in the lower midrange. Your description of the EX sounds like it might address this which is great, but I hope not at the expense of what I enjoy about the original Sierra 2.

What you mention in the lower mids exactly what the Sierra-2EX addresses (as well as many other across the board improvements). I have not been able to detect any audible differences in dispersion, and on paper - technically the S2-EX is better. I do not suspect you would notice any differences in dispersion / imaging.



After the upgrade I will have a pair of great Seas woofers and cross-overs just wasting away. Knowing me, I will either build a box or buy a knock-down flat pack kit of similar dimensions and configuration to the Sierra 2 and build another set of speakers. The only problem is I will need tweeters. Can you provide the specifications of the original cross-over to assist in finding an appropriate tweeter. Any recommendations other than your Raal, which is too expensive for my level of speaker building craftsmanship? Also, anything too expensive and it would just make sense to just buy a set of EXs instead of upgrading.

Crossovers are complex circuits. I am not quite sure how someone defines specs of a crossover so that a different tweeter can be used. Crossovers are designed for a specific woofer and tweeter, never the other way around. Even if I published the electrical curves of the high pass and low pass circuits on the S2 crossover, I am not even sure how one would go about looking at tweeter specifications to see if that tweeter would "work"... Reason being is that every different tweeter model out there is going to have a different impedance profile, and the filter slopes of a crossover directly correlate to these impedances. Any difference in impedance from one tweeter model to another will have a dramatic effect on the filter slopes, thus having a major effect on the blend between woofer and tweeter. Add to that frequency response corrections and level matching (all of which the S2 crossover, or really any properly designed crossover should do) -- and it makes the job of finding a tweeter that will work as a replacement for the original tweeter pretty much impossible, and likely not even a possibility.

If there is enough interest, I suppose I could design a new crossover for that S2 woofer to be used with our Sierra-1 tweeter. That could be one solution to the spare parts, but either way - that S2 crossover is effectively useless without the original components it was designed to be used with.

[rifmon]

Well, I am pretty certain I will be buying a kit for my new domestic cabinet Sierra 2’s. But I do not think I would have the heart to simply toss the Sierra 2 woofers into the trash so count me in on an interested party to send them back for such an Ascend special project.

[Mag_Neato]

Dave, would it be possible for those who will have no use for the original S2 woofers to return them to Ascend with free return shipping? Otherwise they would end up either tossed in the trash, sitting on a shelf/in a box/etc., or showing up on the used market. Don't know if there's any value in it for you, but would be a nice option to have available.

I am hoping to be a EX up-grader at some point and will have no use for the old woofers, though I'm a ways out from being able to get the kits.

[davef]

Dave, would it be possible for those who will have no use for the original S2 woofers to return them to Ascend with free return shipping? Otherwise they would end up either tossed in the trash, sitting on a shelf/in a box/etc., or showing up on the used market. Don't know if there's any value in it for you, but would be a nice option to have available.

I am hoping to be a EX up-grader at some point and will have no use for the old woofers, though I'm a ways out from being able to get the kits.

This is an interesting idea and I would hate for these parts to simply get tossed. Send me an email when you are ready and we can work something out.

[rifmon]

Dave, could 2EX Upgrade Kit buyers send back both the woofers and crossovers for you to pair with Sierra 2 ribbon tweeters? These paired Sierra 2's could be classified as Sierra 2 "C Stock" and priced lower than normal "B-Stock Sierra 2's. Just an option to avoid many tossed woofers and crossovers. I'd be happy to contribute to such a project rather than throwing these great units out.

[whitey019]

Returning the original Sierra 2s woofers and cross-overs sounds interesting.

[RMW]

Hi Dave,

I just received my upgrade kit, and managed to find one of the magnetic protectors for the RAAL. Is there a proper way to place the magnetic protector back on the RAAL? The warning about air pressure blowing out the foil is making me pause.

Thanks,
Ryan

[Mag_Neato]

Hi Dave,

I just received my upgrade kit, and managed to find one of the magnetic protectors for the RAAL. Is there a proper way to place the magnetic protector back on the RAAL? The warning about air pressure blowing out the foil is making me pause.

Thanks,
Ryan

Do the upgrade instructions for the EX state that you should install the covers? You should be fine without them as they were intended as an extra measure of protection for shipping. If you are simply removing the RAAL in order to disconnect the leads from the crossover and then reverse the process, you should be ok without them.

[RMW]

Do the upgrade instructions for the EX state that you should install the covers? You should be fine without them as they were intended as an extra measure of protection for shipping. If you are simply removing the RAAL in order to disconnect the leads from the crossover and then reverse the process, you should be ok without them.

The instructions say if you have them, you should use them. I think it’s probably more to protect against a slip of the screwdriver than anything else. Anyway, I just slid them back on and it was fine.

Thanks,
Ryan

[Mag_Neato]

The instructions say if you have them, you should use them. I think it’s probably more to protect against a slip of the screwdriver than anything else. Anyway, I just slid them back on and it was fine.

Thanks,
Ryan

Cool. Interested in your impressions once you complete the upgrade!

[RMW]

Cool. Interested in your impressions once you complete the upgrade!

Just finished the kit. Took maybe an hour or so to do both. Very simple. One small issue was the connectors for the leads to the woofers...a little loose and my pliers were probably not the right tool for the job. I debated soldering them on, but remembered my DIY days and that one time I accidentally had the iron too hot and literally melted the terminal right off a tweeter. It’s a funny anecdote on a $30 tweeter, not a $300 woofer. So I managed to crimp them a bit and think it’s good enough. I’ll check in a few days and make sure they’re still tight.

Turned them on and two things I noticed immediately, without giving the woofer a fair chance to break-in:

1. They are definitely warmer than the standard S2, which I prefer.
2. The bass is huge. I also have the Buchardt S400s and didn’t think I’d find a small bookshelf that could equal their bass. Well, I think the S2-EX may be at their level.

More to come.

-Ryan

[RicardoJoa]

Just finished the kit. Took maybe an hour or so to do both. Very simple. One small issue was the connectors for the leads to the woofers...a little loose and my pliers were probably not the right tool for the job. I debated soldering them on, but remembered my DIY days and that one time I accidentally had the iron too hot and literally melted the terminal right off a tweeter. It’s a funny anecdote on a $30 tweeter, not a $300 woofer. So I managed to crimp them a bit and think it’s good enough. I’ll check in a few days and make sure they’re still tight.

Turned them on and two things I noticed immediately, without giving the woofer a fair chance to break-in:

1. They are definitely warmer than the standard S2, which I prefer.
2. The bass is huge. I also have the Buchardt S400s and didn’t think I’d find a small bookshelf that could equal their bass. Well, I think the S2-EX may be at their level.

More to come.

-Ryan

Really can’t wait to hear your impression specially against the buchardt s400

[rifmon]

Sounds promising! Keep us posted. I’ll be upgrading sometime this year.

[davef]

Dave, could 2EX Upgrade Kit buyers send back both the woofers and crossovers for you to pair with Sierra 2 ribbon tweeters? These paired Sierra 2's could be classified as Sierra 2 "C Stock" and priced lower than normal "B-Stock Sierra 2's. Just an option to avoid many tossed woofers and crossovers. I'd be happy to contribute to such a project rather than throwing these great units out.

This would be something we would have to carefully consider. Ultimately, the Sierra-2EX will replace the Sierra-2 and sales have been brisk thus far such that using Sierra-2 cabinets for anything other than Sierra-2EX can possibly lead to inventory shortages.

[davef]

Hi Dave,

I just received my upgrade kit, and managed to find one of the magnetic protectors for the RAAL. Is there a proper way to place the magnetic protector back on the RAAL? The warning about air pressure blowing out the foil is making me pause.

Thanks,
Ryan

Hi Ryan - the protectors should simply be slid on or off. Instructions are listed on them but give us a call if you are having issues.

[djDANNY]

2. The bass is huge. I also have the Buchardt S400s and didn’t think I’d find a small bookshelf that could equal their bass. Well, I think the S2-EX may be at their level.

More to come.

-Ryan

Do you run a sub with these and if so what do you cross it over at? I’m curious if a sub is used whether the EX driver will make much of a difference in bass response with a crossover of 80hz or higher. Since both speakers should be measuring pretty flat is there actually more bass output or just lower extension? Not sure how to interpret “more bass” if the frequency response is flat for both the regular Sierra 2 and the 2EX.

[Mag_Neato]

This would be something we would have to carefully consider. Ultimately, the Sierra-2EX will replace the Sierra-2 and sales have been brisk thus far such that using Sierra-2 cabinets for anything other than Sierra-2EX can possibly lead to inventory shortages.

Dave, Glad to hear that your investment with SEAS in producing the EX woofer is a success!

I am bummed that I will have to wait a bit to join the EX club, but I know it will be worth the wait.

[Mag_Neato]

Do you run a sub with these and if so what do you cross it over at? I’m curious if a sub is used whether the EX driver will make much of a difference in bass response with a crossover of 80hz or higher. Since both speakers should be measuring pretty flat is there actually more bass output or just lower extension? Not sure how to interpret “more bass” if the frequency response is flat for both the regular Sierra 2 and the 2EX.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?6237-Diamond-Tweeter&p=60877#post60877

Hope that helps!

[RMW]

Do you run a sub with these and if so what do you cross it over at? I’m curious if a sub is used whether the EX driver will make much of a difference in bass response with a crossover of 80hz or higher. Since both speakers should be measuring pretty flat is there actually more bass output or just lower extension? Not sure how to interpret “more bass” if the frequency response is flat for both the regular Sierra 2 and the 2EX.

I have these in my home theater with a couple of PSA subs. Right now the crossover is set to 80hz and it blends nicely. I have also been listening to them quite a bit full range in my living room stereo set up, and if I were using them exclusively for 2 channel music I wouldn’t see the need for a subwoofer...at least with the music I listen to.

[justthinking]

For those of you did the upgrade, what are you planning on doing with your old woofer and crossover?

[RMW]

Right now I have them just sitting in a bin with a bunch of other speaker parts. 😊 If Dave finds a use for them I will happily send them back to him.

[tknice]

Hey Dave! I'm definitely considering the EX upgrade for my L R C in the theater! Not sure what I'd do with the old woofers either.

Side note--are you planning to offer this same upgrade for the Luna speakers? I have a pair on my computer setup.

[Mag_Neato]

Hey Dave! I'm definitely considering the EX upgrade for my L R C in the theater! Not sure what I'd do with the old woofers either.

Side note--are you planning to offer this same upgrade for the Luna speakers? I have a pair on my computer setup.

I would highly doubt there would be a similar upgrade for the Lunas. The EX woofer was made for the White Diamond tweeter, and only after that upon overwhelming customer requests was it made to work with the RAAL tweeter in the Sierra-2.

[Agd]

This upgrade does look great, I'd take the old woofers and drop them in a parts express flatpack enclosure. Reuse the crossover and find a tweeter with similar impedance and sensitivity for a bedroom speaker. Bit of eq and it probably wouldn't sound half bad for non critical listening

[bcg27]

Agreed, my guess is the phase plug would reduce the surface area of the already much smaller Luna woofer too much.

[davef]

Hey Dave! I'm definitely considering the EX upgrade for my L R C in the theater! Not sure what I'd do with the old woofers either.

Side note--are you planning to offer this same upgrade for the Luna speakers? I have a pair on my computer setup.

Honestly, I hadn't even though about this type of upgrade with our 4.5" Curv woofer. I am not sure if it could even be done without new toolings being made, which costs a fortune. The upgrade worked out very well with our 6" Curv woofer because the motor system of the W16 woofer (magnet and Faraday rings (pure copper shorting rings) were able to be used in our already existing custom made basket frame, of which we own the tooling for. Let's just say we have no plans for an upgraded woofer in the Luna, nor do I feel it would be cost effective vs any performance improvements due to the fact that the cabinet volume is extremely limited.

[parmodmehta]

I have been using Sierra2 as mains paired with the horizon center and PSA XS15se sub. I use this system to watch movies, TV, and listen to music. The setup is working well for me. Should I upgrade the mains to new EXs? Would the bass diff be enough to use the upgraded speakers without a sub?

[davef]

I have been using Sierra2 as mains paired with the horizon center and PSA XS15se sub. I use this system to watch movies, TV, and listen to music. The setup is working well for me. Should I upgrade the mains to new EXs? Would the bass diff be enough to use the upgraded speakers without a sub?

For home theater, we always recommend using a subwoofer - even if you have large full range tower speakers. The EX upgrade does more than just improve bass - overall dynamics is considerably better and this is an important characteristic for home theater. If the upgrade is within your budget, I highly recommend it.

[parmodmehta]

For home theater, we always recommend using a subwoofer - even if you have large full range tower speakers. The EX upgrade does more than just improve bass - overall dynamics is considerably better and this is an important characteristic for home theater. If the upgrade is within your budget, I highly recommend it.

Thanks...I ordered the upgrade kit.

[GPeaslee]

Hi Dave,

Just now reading about the Sierra 2EX upgrade. I currently have Sierra 2’s with a Horizon Raal center. Would the upgraded Sierra 2EX’s be a good match with the Horizon Raal center? The increased dynamics are of interest to me for home theater, but I want to confirm that the front 3 speakers will provide a consistent soundstage for dialogue and panned effects.

Gary

[parmodmehta]

Thanks...I ordered the upgrade kit.

Btw - any plans for a similar upgrade for horizon?

[theophile]

Btw - any plans for a similar upgrade for horizon?

And, any plans for an EX upgrade for the Sierra-1 NrT's!?!

Ted

[RMW]

And, any plans for an EX upgrade for the Sierra-1 NrT's!?!

Ted

There’s a kit for Sierra 1 to Sierra 2EX. And if you want to keep the NRT instead of going to RAAL, I believe I saw Dave put together a kit for someone else in that situation, though it’s not available online.

[theophile]

There’s a kit for Sierra 1 to Sierra 2EX. And if you want to keep the NRT instead of going to RAAL, I believe I saw Dave put together a kit for someone else in that situation, though it’s not available online.

Thanks RMW, I read of the same situation. I've already asked Dina to get a quote for me (EX kit w\crossover for NrT users), as I plan to keep my S-1 NrT speakers! :cool:

Ted

[davef]

And, any plans for an EX upgrade for the Sierra-1 NrT's!?!

Ted

If you mean to keep the NrT dome and use the EX woofer, we already have a design for this and the customer absolutely we made this for loves the speakers. I don't know if he is a forum member, if he is -- hopefully he will post something. That said, yes - we can do this.

If you want to convert Sierra-1 NrT to Sierra-2EX, you just need to order the Sierra-1 -> Sierra-2EX kits.

[theophile]

If you mean to keep the NrT dome and use the EX woofer, we already have a design for this and the customer absolutely we made this for loves the speakers. I don't know if he is a forum member, if he is -- hopefully he will post something. That said, yes - we can do this.

If you want to convert Sierra-1 NrT to Sierra-2EX, you just need to order the Sierra-1 -> Sierra-2EX kits.

Thanks so much Dave (I pick door #1)! I just sent an e-mail to you to get some questions answered!!

Ted

[jimb]

I had US made Satin Expresso S-2s with a finish I knew I liked. I considered selling them and buying new S-2EXs. I considered buying the EX kit and modifying mine. In the end, I decided not to sell my S-2s (all those wanting to sell theirs can thank me for not contributing to a saturated market!), and to have Dave do the modification for me. That saved me a bit of modification hassle, but cost me time preparing for shipping and subsequent receiving. I also had to pay shipping costs, but it got me a pair of S-2EXs that are factory tested and matched to new pair spec. Ascend does not currently charge to do the mod for you - you pay for the kit and the shipping (which was a bit expensive going to them, but quite reasonable for the return leg). Maybe about +$100 compared to getting the kit and doing it yourself. Just another option for you all.

[diesel79]

I had US made Satin Expresso S-2s with a finish I knew I liked. I considered selling them and buying new S-2EXs. I considered buying the EX kit and modifying mine. In the end, I decided not to sell my S-2s (all those wanting to sell theirs can thank me for not contributing to a saturated market!), and to have Dave do the modification for me. That saved me a bit of modification hassle, but cost me time preparing for shipping and subsequent receiving. I also had to pay shipping costs, but it got me a pair of S-2EXs that are factory tested and matched to new pair spec. Ascend does not current charge to do the mod for you - you pay for the kit and the shipping (which was a bit expensive going to them, but quite reasonable for the return leg). Maybe about +$100 compared to getting the kit and doing it yourself. Just another option for you all.

Do you have them back yet? Any first impressions? I’m looking at doing the same thing. Just need to get a few things figured out. I’ve got a pair of the natural USA made cabinets that I really like.

The hardest part will be the 2-3 weeks without speakers. Lol. I actually contemplated just ordering a new pair for that reason.

[jimb]

I do have them back, but my current use does not permit critical evaluation, nor opportunity to compare before and after very well. I will say that they are more 'neutral' to me now than before, and that the bass is more extended. Other than that, you should really consider them based on what Dave and others have described about the differences. The turn around time at Ascend is not too long, but you do have to allow time for shipping both ways.

[rickm]

Just received my Sierra 2-EX upgrade kit. Installation went smoothly. Directions are first rate and easy to follow. Only tools needed are a phillips screwdriver and a ½ inch socket. I thought the Sierra 2's were great (and they are). The addition of the upgrade kit takes them to a new and higher level! The sound is even "awesomer!" The base is noticeably deep and lower. I turned my sub's volume down a bit. When listening to music I thought I knew very well, it sounds like there are new instruments playing in the song. Subtle clarity is improved. I'm overwhelmed by the added details. Every thing Dave has said about this upgrade is true. If funds permit, I'd highly recommend doing this upgrade. I think of my speakers as "Sierra 3's" now!

[divertiti]

Just received my Sierra 2-EX upgrade kit. Installation went smoothly. Directions are first rate and easy to follow. Only tools needed are a phillips screwdriver and a ½ inch socket. I thought the Sierra 2's were great (and they are). The addition of the upgrade kit takes them to a new and higher level! The sound is even "awesomer!" The base is noticeably deep and lower. I turned my sub's volume down a bit. When listening to music I thought I knew very well, it sounds like there are new instruments playing in the song. Subtle clarity is improved. I'm overwhelmed by the added details. Every thing Dave has said about this upgrade is true. If funds permit, I'd highly recommend doing this upgrade. I think of my speakers as "Sierra 3's" now!

Thanks for the impression on the upgrade. Has anyone else done the upgrade and comparison? Would love to hear more perspectives on the scope and degree of the changes....

[davef]

Just received my Sierra 2-EX upgrade kit. Installation went smoothly. Directions are first rate and easy to follow. Only tools needed are a phillips screwdriver and a ½ inch socket. I thought the Sierra 2's were great (and they are). The addition of the upgrade kit takes them to a new and higher level! The sound is even "awesomer!" The base is noticeably deep and lower. I turned my sub's volume down a bit. When listening to music I thought I knew very well, it sounds like there are new instruments playing in the song. Subtle clarity is improved. I'm overwhelmed by the added details. Every thing Dave has said about this upgrade is true. If funds permit, I'd highly recommend doing this upgrade. I think of my speakers as "Sierra 3's" now!

Thanks for posting your thoughts and I am glad that you are enjoying your new EX's :)

[merrymaid520]

From all I’ve heard the S..EX is phenomenal;)

Sorry, couldn’t resist!

[rickm]

It is phenomenal. and the enjoyment can last for hours!

[GPeaslee]

Hi Dave,

Just now reading about the Sierra 2EX upgrade. I currently have Sierra 2’s with a Horizon Raal center. Would the upgraded Sierra 2EX’s be a good match with the Horizon Raal center? The increased dynamics are of interest to me for home theater, but I want to confirm that the front 3 speakers will provide a consistent soundstage for dialogue and panned effects.

Gary

Hi Dave,

I think you missed my question. No problem, but I still would like your thoughts on this.

Thanks, Gary

[vicwong]

Dave has said that the best center for a pair of Sierra-2's is a Duo if you have a subwoofer, and a third Sierra-2 if you don't (given those two as the options.)

I'm in the latter situation and just ordered the 2EX upgrade kit for the L & R.

So, does the recommendation still hold? Does the extra bass of the 2EX compensate (somewhat) for the lack of a subwoofer if I get a Duo?

My other options are keeping the Sierra-2 center or upgrading it to a 2EX. Does a 2EX have any of the characteristics that make the Duo a good center?

Thanks.

[diesel79]

Ordered my EX upgrade kits today. Will be paired with my Horizon and a pair of Rythmik FV 18’s. I’m excited to hear the new sound.

[davef]

Hi Dave,

Just now reading about the Sierra 2EX upgrade. I currently have Sierra 2’s with a Horizon Raal center. Would the upgraded Sierra 2EX’s be a good match with the Horizon Raal center? The increased dynamics are of interest to me for home theater, but I want to confirm that the front 3 speakers will provide a consistent soundstage for dialogue and panned effects.

Gary

Hi Gary,

Sorry I missed your question. The Sierra-2EX are an even better match to the Horizon than Sierra-2, especially with regard to overall timbre, clarity and dynamics. I would say the Sierra-2EX is 50% closer in overall performance.

Hope this helps!

[diesel79]

I ended up canceling my order for the EX upgrades.................and just ordering a new set of domestic cabinet natural EX’s instead. I’ve got the S2’s up for sale but if they don’t sell I might just use them for a 2 channel set up or box them up and use for surrounds eventually.

Not sure how to hide 2 sets of speakers from the wife though. :).

[rifmon]

Just received my Sierra 2-EX upgrade kit. Installation went smoothly. Directions are first rate and easy to follow. Only tools needed are a phillips screwdriver and a ½ inch socket. I thought the Sierra 2's were great (and they are). The addition of the upgrade kit takes them to a new and higher level! The sound is even "awesomer!" The base is noticeably deep and lower. I turned my sub's volume down a bit. When listening to music I thought I knew very well, it sounds like there are new instruments playing in the song. Subtle clarity is improved. I'm overwhelmed by the added details. Every thing Dave has said about this upgrade is true. If funds permit, I'd highly recommend doing this upgrade. I think of my speakers as "Sierra 3's" now!

Thanks for sharing your experience installing the upgrade kit. I have a new set of Sierra 2’s and intend to upgrade by either shipping them back for the swap and new frequency read-outs, or just ordering the kits.

Can you share how long it took you to take out the crossover and woofer and make the replacements? Did you hit any obstacles in the process? If it’s not too bad I may attempt it rather than incurring the cost of shipping. Thanks.

[RicardoJoa]

The process is super easy, just make sure you have a plier/rachet/wrench of appropriated size and length and a short philip screw driver. I use plier and a short philip driver and is all good.

[rifmon]

The process is super easy, just make sure you have a plier/rachet/wrench of appropriated size and length and a short philip screw driver. I use plier and a short philip driver and is all good.

Wow thanks! That sounds doable.

[rickm]

I agree. If you know which end of the screw driver goes in your hand, you will be good to go. The directions are detailed yet very clear. I'm a rather slow and deliberate worker. The installation took about 2 hours and 15 minutes. I went to my garage each time I needed a tool. Time well spent!

[Crk140]

If you mean to keep the NrT dome and use the EX woofer, we already have a design for this and the customer absolutely we made this for loves the speakers. I don't know if he is a forum member, if he is -- hopefully he will post something. That said, yes - we can do this.

If you want to convert Sierra-1 NrT to Sierra-2EX, you just need to order the Sierra-1 -> Sierra-2EX kits.

Yes,

I'm the one who had this speaker specially made. I think it sounds amazing. I had the ribbon previously so that should give you an idea of how good they sound. The ribbon was a bit too tame for me in the upper treble region. For anyone with the nrt that wants to keep the dome the nrt with the ex woofer is 110% worth it and sounds awesome. Tight authoritative base, great punch. Ex woofer integrates well with the nrt.

[Beave]

^Those yours on eBay?

[goldark]

Does the orientation of the RAAL matter, aka, is it possible to accidentally re-install the RAAL "upside down?"

Also, how are people protecting the ribbon while doing the upgrade? I've misplaced by protected sleeves and don't exactly trust myself not to damage them while doing the EX upgrade.

[davef]

Does the orientation of the RAAL matter, aka, is it possible to accidentally re-install the RAAL "upside down?"

Also, how are people protecting the ribbon while doing the upgrade? I've misplaced by protected sleeves and don't exactly trust myself not to damage them while doing the EX upgrade.

As long as the tweeter is installed vertically (if you are using the speakers in the vertical position) - there is no top or bottom on the tweeter so there is no upside down or right side up for that matter.

The thing with the ribbons you need to be concerned about is that they have very powerful magnets inside and will literally pull any tiny metal fragments towards the ribbon. If a particle gets past the screen, it will tear the ribbon. So, if you don't have the sleeves available, I recommend placing a piece of blue painter's masking tape over the entire rectangular opening. Gently peel this off when ready...

[rifmon]

Wow. Good information. Sorta like an MRI machine with the magnet! When I finally get my upgrade, I'll keep that in mind. I will keep my mechanical watch far away! Dumb question.... so the magnets are in the ribbons or are they behind the ribbons in the enclosure?

[curtis]

Wow. Good information. Sorta like an MRI machine with the magnet! When I finally get my upgrade, I'll keep that in mind. I will keep my mechanical watch far away! Dumb question.... so the magnets are in the ribbons or are they behind the ribbons in the enclosure?
The magnets are part of the tweeter assembly, behind the actual ribbon of the tweeter.

[davef]

The magnets are part of the tweeter assembly, behind the actual ribbon of the tweeter.

Actually, in the smaller ribbon (Sierra-2 ribbon) - there are 3 magnets - the 2 main magnets are to the sides of the ribbon, with one smaller magnet behind the ribbon. in the 70-20, the magnets are to the sides of the ribbon.

[mikesiskav]

Be careful when holding a measuring tape up to your Sierra-2. The magnets might cause the measuring tape to smack the Raal tweeter. Don't ask me how I know. :)

[dap7777]

Yes,

I'm the one who had this speaker specially made. I think it sounds amazing. I had the ribbon previously so that should give you an idea of how good they sound. The ribbon was a bit too tame for me in the upper treble region. For anyone with the nrt that wants to keep the dome the nrt with the ex woofer is 110% worth it and sounds awesome. Tight authoritative base, great punch. Ex woofer integrates well with the nrt.

Not clear what you're saying here. I have the 1-Nrt upgrade with the dome tweeter. Are you saying I can pair the Nrt dome I have now with the new 2 EX woofer, using the old Nrt crossover? That's not a kit DaveF offers, is it? Or will DaveF sell me the EX woofer by itself? Thanks.

[Mag_Neato]

Not clear what you're saying here. I have the 1-Nrt upgrade with the dome tweeter. Are you saying I can pair the Nrt dome I have now with the new 2 EX woofer, using the old Nrt crossover? That's not a kit DaveF offers, is it? Or will DaveF sell me the EX woofer by itself? Thanks.

No, you cannot simply swap the standard woofer for the EX woofer by itself. You will need new crossovers to make them play together properly. I'd imagine you would be looking at at least the same cost as if you were doing the EX upgrade with the S2. Best to contact Dave/Dina and get a quote.

[Crk140]

I have the nrt with ex woofer. The combo sounds awesome imo but it is special order so you'll have to ask Dave for pricing... and as the previous poster mentioned you need a specially adjusted crossover

[muzz]

I'm SERIOUSLY considering upgrading my 1's to the 2EX, so this thread is awesome.
The cost for the upgrade is less than buying new speakers, and doing the upgrade myself is cake, so it's a no brainer really.
Hmmmmm I'll need 3 kits...

[muzz]

Ordered 3 S1>S2-EX Kits
Started with 140's w/340SE CC(which I still listen to), then to Sierra 1's LCR.
Knowing Dave over the years, I'm expecting this to be a big upgrade.

Thanks for making these available Dave!

Gary

[Pogre]

Okay, I didn't read every post in this thread so please forgive me if this has been suggested or covered already.

It would break my heart to upgrade and have such a nice set of drivers left over to sit and collect dust. Dave, have you ever considered offering to take them back for even a small credit toward the kit? What I'm imagining is a "b-stock" section where you could offer speakers built from returned (and tested) parts at a discount? I dunno if that's even a viable plan or would work with your business model, just spitballing.

IF I were to go this upgrade path (I didn't. I decided to get the towers) I would absolutely pursue building a pair of speakers around them, with a newly designed crossover and compatible tweeter (if I could find one).

Another question... how would those drivers work in a tower? That'd be pretty cool. I love the way the SEAS Curv woofer looks. I was slightly disappointed the 2 bass drivers in the towers aren't the same as the Sierra 2s, but also understand it's a custom built driver designed specifically to fit the S2 cabs.

[natetg57]

Okay, I didn't read every post in this thread so please forgive me if this has been suggested or covered already.

It would break my heart to upgrade and have such a nice set of drivers left over to sit and collect dust. Dave, have you ever considered offering to take them back for even a small credit toward the kit? What I'm imagining is a "b-stock" section where you could offer speakers built from returned (and tested) parts at a discount? I dunno if that's even a viable plan or would work with your business model, just spitballing.

IF I were to go this upgrade path (I didn't. I decided to get the towers) I would absolutely pursue building a pair of speakers around them, with a newly designed crossover and compatible tweeter (if I could find one).

Another question... how would those drivers work in a tower? That'd be pretty cool. I love the way the SEAS Curv woofer looks. I was slightly disappointed the 2 bass drivers in the towers aren't the same as the Sierra 2s, but also understand it's a custom built driver designed specifically to fit the S2 cabs.

There was a time that Dave accepted old Sierra woofers back but doesn't currently, last I heard

[diesel79]

Thats why I kept my 2’s and bought a new pair of ex. Didn’t have it in my heart to pretty much scrap an awesome speaker.

[Levesque]

I am hoping to be a EX up-grader at some point and will have no use for the old woofers, though I'm a ways out from being able to get the kits.

[Mag_Neato]

I am hoping to be a EX up-grader at some point and will have no use for the old woofers, though I'm a ways out from being able to get the kits.

Ascend, at one time, had you return ship the old components, but no longer. I too have my old Sierra-2 woofers and crossovers, and the original EX crossovers after I upgraded to the V2 EX crossovers.

[racrawford65]

Me, too. As well as the Duo to v2 parts and Tower v1 to ELX v2 parts.

[davef]

I am hoping to be a EX up-grader at some point and will have no use for the old woofers, though I'm a ways out from being able to get the kits.

We are happy to provide a pre-paid return shipping label for the old parts, but we no longer offer any credit for them.

[muzz]

I'm not sure how it's feasible for Ascend to give $ back. Everyone wants their best stuff, which is obviously their newest stuff, as Dave continues to produce better products.
I dunno, I'm just a guy looking at progress.

Good Luck.

G