Sierra Tower & RAAL Clarification

[Snapsc]

Everything I've read about the Sierra Tower is very positive and as for the RAAL it is probably one of the best drivers out there. When I look at the Sierra Tower Measurements page...it appears that the very top end is within 2 db of the mid top end...which I would call flat compared to a lot of measurements you see on other well regarded loudspeakers tested by Sound Stage Access....and I assume Dave voiced it that way.

I was pretty surprised when I saw a post on Audiogon suggesting that the Sierra tower has an intentionally tipped up top end to make it appear that it has great resolving capability.

I'm hoping Dave can add some insight as to his voicing and as to the RAAL capability when it comes to soundstage and resolution.


https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tekton-design-moab?page=3


tektondesign113 posts
06-30-2019 11:31pm
Nitrobob,

Respectfully, your first post reads and looks to be more like an Ascend speaker ad to me than anything else, and none of the post really has anything to do with the Moab.

I believe we talked a few months back and I can assure you that you are in a very slim minority - 4 out of 100 to be exact. I know the Double Impact is a great sounding loudspeaker. Furthermore, the Ascend Towers do not have any less distortion, lower distortion, cleaner and clearer sound or better resolution; they are simply voiced differently than I choose to voice speakers. The top-end of the Ascend Towers and the other speakers you've had the treble turned up and we covered this. Turning up the treble is an effect I've used for decades if I want the listener to perceive exacting resolution. There's a handful of speaker companies that live by this credo and I hope they never change.

Eric Alexander

[mikesiskav]

If I'm not mistaken, the measurements on the main Sierra Towers page are for the NRT dome. The RAAL measurements (which are even flatter and more neutral) are here:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRT/Ascend%20Sierra%20Ribbon%20Tower.pdf

Edit: I see this link is listed under the RAAL section. If you click the measurements link on the left, it's for the NRT.

Just looked at the first page of that thread and looks like the Tekton owner took got a little miffed when he saw the reviewer post:

"Bottom line, they are no ways near as clear as the Ascends"

[Snapsc]

You are absolutely right....I did look at the measurement page for the NRT and as you said...the RAAL looks pretty close to dead flat.

I guess now that I think about it...the really strange part is that Eric Alexander is taken aback when one of the posters says a number of good things about his speakers but ends by saying he prefers the Ascend Towers because the RAALs are clearer.

Which then causes him to defend his speakers by saying that the Ascends are tipped up...

Again, thanks for the link

[Beave]

My two cents:
1. Take anything you read on Audiogon forums with a large grain of salt.
2. Take anything you read from Eric Alexander with an even larger grain of salt.

[curtis]

My two cents:
1. Take anything you read on Audiogon forums with a large grain of salt.
2. Take anything you read from Eric Alexander with an even larger grain of salt.
Ditto

[Snapsc]

To his credit though, he did say that good loudspeakers have voicing with attributes that will appeal to different people... which to me says some people prefer Ascend, some prefer Tekton, some prefer Salk, some prefer Maggie’s, etc.

I don’t doubt that his “midrange tweeter” array have a planar like midrange sound but I doubt that the lone unit being used as a tweeter is in the ballpark of the RAAL when it comes to extension, soundstage and detail.

One thing for sure... if you buy a 150# speaker... it’s going to be harder to resell and you are likely to get hammered on price as buyers deduct the shipping costs from their offer price.

[davef]

Everything I've read about the Sierra Tower is very positive and as for the RAAL it is probably one of the best drivers out there. When I look at the Sierra Tower Measurements page...it appears that the very top end is within 2 db of the mid top end...which I would call flat compared to a lot of measurements you see on other well regarded loudspeakers tested by Sound Stage Access....and I assume Dave voiced it that way.

I was pretty surprised when I saw a post on Audiogon suggesting that the Sierra tower has an intentionally tipped up top end to make it appear that it has great resolving capability.

I'm hoping Dave can add some insight as to his voicing and as to the RAAL capability when it comes to soundstage and resolution.


https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tekton-design-moab?page=3


tektondesign113 posts
06-30-2019 11:31pm
Nitrobob,

Respectfully, your first post reads and looks to be more like an Ascend speaker ad to me than anything else, and none of the post really has anything to do with the Moab.

I believe we talked a few months back and I can assure you that you are in a very slim minority - 4 out of 100 to be exact. I know the Double Impact is a great sounding loudspeaker. Furthermore, the Ascend Towers do not have any less distortion, lower distortion, cleaner and clearer sound or better resolution; they are simply voiced differently than I choose to voice speakers. The top-end of the Ascend Towers and the other speakers you've had the treble turned up and we covered this. Turning up the treble is an effect I've used for decades if I want the listener to perceive exacting resolution. There's a handful of speaker companies that live by this credo and I hope they never change.

Eric Alexander

Shame on Eric for that post, beyond unprofessional -- "reads like an Ascend ad"? Unlike Tekton, we have never paid for an ad or given away free or discounted speakers in exchange for a review.

For Eric to make such claims without ever having measured our Ribbon Towers gives true insight into his character. No, we do not "tip up our treble response in order for the listener to perceive exacting resolution". That is a common excuse I have heard more times than I can count over my near 4 decades as a professional in this industry. And BTW, where exactly are the measurements of his speakers?

The hypocrisy in all of this is that Eric's controversial patent, once someone is able to get past all the technobabble and hyperbole, promotes the benefits of low mass in order to extract more resolution. Really nothing new there, it's the main premise behind the design of true ribbon tweeters and electrostatic speakers.

In fact, here is the abstract of his patent:

"Improved speakers are better able to accurately reproduce sound through the use of low-mass transducers."

Fact: the dome tweeter Eric uses in his designs has a moving mass that is ~44 times greater than the moving mass of the ribbon tweeter we are using. With regards to inertia (the lower the better), that is like comparing the handling, acceleration/deceleration of a motorcycle (our ribbon tweeter) to a semi-truck...

Something to think about....;)

[SunByrne]

My two cents:
1. Take anything you read on Audiogon forums with a large grain of salt.
2. Take anything you read from Eric Alexander with an even larger grain of salt.

There needs to be a "like" button on this forum, just for this post.

[Mag_Neato]

My two cents:
1. Take anything you read on Audiogon forums with a large grain of salt.
2. Take anything you read from Eric Alexander with an even larger grain of salt.

Is that Sea salt, Himalayan salt, Kosher salt, Pickling salt, etc.? Makes a difference......

[Snapsc]

We may never know but it would seem that Tekton is selling plenty of speakers...which means there is absolutely no reason to make untrue or overstated comparisons with any of their competitors.

Near the end of Stereophiles review of one of Tekton's loudspeakers, they make their own comparison...I will only quote two sentences...and I believe that this is why Ribbons are well loved....because of their clarity and tonal accuracy.

"As I frequently remind you, the best test of any loudspeaker is how tangibly lifelike it can make a recorded piano sound. Nojima's Hamburg Steinway sounded a touch soft and slightly smeared—not as precise as through the DeVore O/93s or the Harbeth M30.2s".

Yes, overall they liked the speakers...but as is the case with all audio products...nothing is perfect...nothing satisfies everyone.

One more thing I will point out....you rarely see Sierra Towers with the RAAL option come up for resale on any of the marts...that is less the case with Tekton and other brands. Does that mean that they impress for a while and then not so much over time?

Actually, I think...enough said on this subject. Dave, thanks for adding your Technical expertise and comparison.

[psuKinger]

I'm new to this forum. And I'm a "new Ascend customer". I took delivery on a pair of HTM-200's a month or so ago, and am patiently waiting for a pair of Towers (w/RAAL) and a center-oriented 2EX (w/RAAL) to ship to join them in my 5.1 setup.

Decided to sign up for the forum and take a look around... this thread instantly jumped out at me, and is all the more interesting/amusing in light of Eric's very recent and very public outbursts on Youtube with a (paid) reviewer... I didn't see anything for myself but read about it on Reddit. Pretty crazy stuff.

Anyway, I wouldn't put too much credo into anything Eric has to say after all of this. I'll no longer consider Tekton for any future purchase I ever make. And also and most importantly - can't wait to get my Sierra Towers!

[davef]

I'm new to this forum. And I'm a "new Ascend customer". I took delivery on a pair of HTM-200's a month or so ago, and am patiently waiting for a pair of Towers (w/RAAL) and a center-oriented 2EX (w/RAAL) to ship to join them in my 5.1 setup.

Decided to sign up for the forum and take a look around... this thread instantly jumped out at me, and is all the more interesting/amusing in light of Eric's very recent and very public outbursts on Youtube with a (paid) reviewer... I didn't see anything for myself but read about it on Reddit. Pretty crazy stuff.

Anyway, I wouldn't put too much credo into anything Eric has to say after all of this. I'll no longer consider Tekton for any future purchase I ever make. And also and most importantly - can't wait to get my Sierra Towers!

Thanks for your patience with the delay on the towers. The cabinets are due here in about one week. I visited our cabinet maker last week and let me say they look amazing with the new magnetic grilles.

Honestly, I am not concerned about Eric's comments - we are now celebrating our 20th year of business and there is nothing he can say about us that will slow us down or prevent us from reaching our next big moment - the 30 year mark! I was just surprised by his public claims having zero experience with any of our products, but he sure seems to have dug a hole for himself.... This is an industry where close competitors often become friends or at a minimum, acquaintances. You will never see Jim Salk or Dennis Murphy, Brian Ding or so many others publicly (or even privately) bad mouth a competitor's product. It's the same with me, it is called mutual respect for someone else's hard work - for their passion... It is a shame he posted what he did, but it doesn't surprise me...

I hope you absolutely love the towers!!

[wineguy]

I visited our cabinet maker last week and let me say they look amazing with the new magnetic grilles.

Will all the towers have magnetic grilles going forward? Any other tweaks? Will the Horizon also be getting the magnetic grill treatment?

[davef]

Will all the towers have magnetic grilles going forward? Any other tweaks? Will the Horizon also be getting the magnetic grill treatment?

All towers have magnetic grilles going forward and all future production runs of Horizon cabinet will also have magnetic grilles. Note, there will be a price increase on Horizons (est $100 - $120 each).