Question for Dave

[Belows]

I’m curious whether Ascend has ever considered building what I would call a “retro” speaker similar in size and dimensions to the recently re-released versions of the JBL L100, Klipsch Cornwall and Wharfedale Linton. I ask because, as a child of the 70’s, I grew up with speakers of that size and style and think there are things you get from a 12”-woofer three-way that you just can’t get from today’s multi-driver towers. Plus, tower speakers are more difficult to fit into home décor outside of a home theater setting and for stereo listening often require a powered sub, which is even more of a décor challenge.

I think Ascend, with your expertise using the RAAL ribbon tweeter and your awesome bamboo cabinets would be in a unique position to produce something unlike anything anyone else would be able to match sonically or aesthetically. I owned a basic pair of ESS Model 9 speakers back in the 1970s, which I think were the first to use a folded-ribbon style tweeter (Heil air-motion transformer I believe it was called) and remember how good they sounded compared to similar speakers with traditional paper cone (in those days) tweeters. I can only imagine how a similar Ascend speaker with a RAAL tweeter would sound.

If you build ever build them, count me in as customer #1!

[curtis]

First, Dave will need to make sure Ascend can sell enough of them for it to be profitable.

What do you think your price point would be? Ask Dave for a custom build?

[Belows]

The new JBL L100s are $2,000 each and so is the Klipsch Cornwall III. Similar sized Harbeth 3-way monitors are way above that ($15k for a pair of 40.2s). I have no idea what the market would be but I have to believe a true audiophile-targeted monitor speaker in the $4,000 per pair range with a RAAL tweeter would be a steal and the reviews and buzz it received would no doubt bring a lot of ancillary traffic to the Ascend site. Just curious if it was ever something Dave had considered.

[davef]

I’m curious whether Ascend has ever considered building what I would call a “retro” speaker similar in size and dimensions to the recently re-released versions of the JBL L100, Klipsch Cornwall and Wharfedale Linton. I ask because, as a child of the 70’s, I grew up with speakers of that size and style and think there are things you get from a 12”-woofer three-way that you just can’t get from today’s multi-driver towers. Plus, tower speakers are more difficult to fit into home décor outside of a home theater setting and for stereo listening often require a powered sub, which is even more of a décor challenge.

I think Ascend, with your expertise using the RAAL ribbon tweeter and your awesome bamboo cabinets would be in a unique position to produce something unlike anything anyone else would be able to match sonically or aesthetically. I owned a basic pair of ESS Model 9 speakers back in the 1970s, which I think were the first to use a folded-ribbon style tweeter (Heil air-motion transformer I believe it was called) and remember how good they sounded compared to similar speakers with traditional paper cone (in those days) tweeters. I can only imagine how a similar Ascend speaker with a RAAL tweeter would sound.

If you build ever build them, count me in as customer #1!

I absolutely get the retro appeal of the old classic 3-way wide baffle speakers. I actually owned a pair of the original JBL L100's, as well as a Fisher knockoff and then a set of similar EPI A1200. I liked the old EPI's the best and I still have those old Fisher's somewhere as they were my father's and the first set of speakers I ever rebuilt....

That said, there is a reason why modern high performance speakers have mostly moved to slimmer cabinets and smaller diameter woofers. One reason, of course, are subwoofers -- none of these speakers, including the more modern variants can produce anywhere near the bass accuracy, extension and transient accuracy of a quality subwoofer. In addition, those huge front baffles combined with large 12" woofers come at a cost -- major diffraction effects combined with poor transient accuracy from such heavy mass woofer cones.

In addition, these types of speakers are too large for speaker stands and are designed to simply be placed on the floor (preferably with a riser). This places the tweeter and midrange driver close to the floor, which is just not a good idea for a high performance speaker - and a very bad idea in general for a RAAL ribbon tweeter.

Please don't misunderstand me -- I grew up with these types of speakers in the 70's, early 80's - they started my audio passion and I love the fact that some of these classics are making a come back. However, for true high performance audio, there are just far too many compromises in these types of designs and other than bass extension, our Sierra Towers would trounce these designs with regard to accuracy, detail, imaging and transient accuracy. Combine our Towers with a Rythmik 12" and you have a speaker set that is far superior in all aspects for less $$$....

For sure, if we made something like this it would have an appeal to some, definitely a niche product - but it does compromise many of my beliefs on speaker performance, something I am not comfortable doing.

[Belows]

Thanks much for the feedback! Not having any background in audio or speaker design I obviously don't know anything about the compromises involved in designing such speakers. Like you, I grew up with the wide baffle 3-way speakers and nostalgically thought it would be really cool for Ascend to build something similar. I also greatly appreciate the fact that you stick to your beliefs on speaker performance because, as a long time Ascend customer, I've gotten a tremendous amount of enjoyment out of my Ascends over the years. What you do works. Thank you for building such wonderful products!

[white_darren]

Thank you for building such wonderful products!

I'll second that!

[davef]

Thanks much for the feedback! Not having any background in audio or speaker design I obviously don't know anything about the compromises involved in designing such speakers. Like you, I grew up with the wide baffle 3-way speakers and nostalgically thought it would be really cool for Ascend to build something similar. I also greatly appreciate the fact that you stick to your beliefs on speaker performance because, as a long time Ascend customer, I've gotten a tremendous amount of enjoyment out of my Ascends over the years. What you do works. Thank you for building such wonderful products!


I'll second that!

thanks guys -- much appreciated!

[curtis]

I saw this earlier today:
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=570:dark-diamond-news&catid=41:news&Itemid=194

[Sam1000]

"To facilitate this development, SEAS has invested more than 300 hours of engineering"
Is that a typo? I'm sure it was more than 300 hours, but I thought it would be much more than that.

[curtis]

Hmm. Posted my link in the wrong thread.

[davef]

I saw this earlier today:
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=570:dark-diamond-news&catid=41:news&Itemid=194

Yep - this is our version of the white diamond tweeter, built with the custom black faceplate. SEAS is now offering it to other vendors to recoup development and tooling costs associated with its design. We are perfectly fine with this of course - and agreed to it a while back. It was either that or we had to meet a minimum order quantity - which for a tweeter that costs this much, made this an easy decision ;)

[davef]

"To facilitate this development, SEAS has invested more than 300 hours of engineering"
Is that a typo? I'm sure it was more than 300 hours, but I thought it would be much more than that.

Full quote:

"Through 2018 and into the spring of 2019 the diamond tweeter was optimized for better performance in the 1-40 kHz frequency range and with improvements in the production processes as well, for higher linear excursion (FEA optimized suspension, verified by measurements) with lower distortion at low frequencies, smoother response and better batch-to-batch consistency.

To facilitate this development, SEAS has invested more than 300 hours of engineering, as well as a new Brüel & Kjær NEXUS conditioning preamplifier which is linear to above 100 kHz, and a Benchmark AHB2 analog power amplifier with low distortion and low noise well beyond 100 kHz, such that the entire measurement chain is geared towards high-res and high-frequency audio measurements."


I think what they mean is that they invested 300 hours in just the past year (2018-2019) in making performance improvements to the original design.