HTM 200SEs as Near field Monitors

[N Boros]

I'm planning to get a pair of speakers for my desktop at work. I was originally thinking of getting the Audioengine A5+, since they seem to be the highly regarded in their price point. But then I started thinking, what if instead I got a pair of HTM 200 SE's. I could get an amplifier like the Audioengine N22,

https://audioengineusa.com/shop/amplifiers/n22-desktop-audio-amplifier/,

to power the speakers. The N22 seems kind of pricey, but I did find some new models selling on ebay and such for around $150.

How would the HTM 200SE's work as a desktop speaker?

How would they compare to the Audioengine speakers, which are designed specifically for this use?

Can anyone suggest a speaker/headphone amplifier at this price point or less that would work well with the HTM200SE's? I was thinking about getting some planar magnetic headphones next year, so the headphone amp would be a nice plus with the N22.

I did see a Monoprice tube amp that seems to have similar performance to the N22. Just not sure if it is a quality unit or not. Looks really cool though. It wouldn't be as easy to hookup to the computer though and it is a little bulkier.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13194

[davef]

I'm planning to get a pair of speakers for my desktop at work. I was originally thinking of getting the Audioengine A5+, since they seem to be the highly regarded in their price point. But then I started thinking, what if instead I got a pair of HTM 200 SE's. I could get an amplifier like the Audioengine N22,

https://audioengineusa.com/shop/amplifiers/n22-desktop-audio-amplifier/,

to power the speakers. The N22 seems kind of pricey, but I did find some new models selling on ebay and such for around $150.

How would the HTM 200SE's work as a desktop speaker?

How would they compare to the Audioengine speakers, which are designed specifically for this use?

Can anyone suggest a speaker/headphone amplifier at this price point or less that would work well with the HTM200SE's? I was thinking about getting some planar magnetic headphones next year, so the headphone amp would be a nice plus with the N22.

I did see a Monoprice tube amp that seems to have similar performance to the N22. Just not sure if it is a quality unit or not. Looks really cool though. It wouldn't be as easy to hookup to the computer though and it is a little bulkier.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13194

My son has been using a pair of HTM-200's on his desktop and this amp.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071JN7GXN/

I have been quite impressed with this combination.

[N Boros]

My son has been using a pair of HTM-200's on his desktop and this amp.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071JN7GXN/

I have been quite impressed with this combination.

I know that the quality of the drivers and likely the crossover in the HTM 200s surpass that in the Audioengine speakers. The cost of either speakers would end up being very similar. Is there any reason to think that the HTM 200s can’t sound as good or better than speakers designed specifically for nearfield use? They would be within arms length.

[davef]

I know that the quality of the drivers and likely the crossover in the HTM 200s surpass that in the Audioengine speakers. The cost of either speakers would end up being very similar. Is there any reason to think that the HTM 200s can’t sound as good or better than speakers designed specifically for nearfield use? They would be within arms length.

All of our speakers are designed with very tight phase integration between the drivers. That's what basically defines the difference between a speaker designed for nearfield usage and one that isn't specifically designed for it. So yes, without question, our HTM-200's will perform exceptionally well as nearfield speakers and we have many hundreds of customers using them as desktop nearfield speakers.

[N Boros]

All of our speakers are designed with very tight phase integration between the drivers. That's what basically defines the difference between a speaker designed for nearfield usage and one that isn't specifically designed for it. So yes, without question, our HTM-200's will perform exceptionally well as nearfield speakers and we have many hundreds of customers using them as desktop nearfield speakers.

Thanks Dave. This is very helpful. I think that I will go the route of HTM-200's for my desktop speakers.

[N Boros]

All of our speakers are designed with very tight phase integration between the drivers. That's what basically defines the difference between a speaker designed for nearfield usage and one that isn't specifically designed for it. So yes, without question, our HTM-200's will perform exceptionally well as nearfield speakers and we have many hundreds of customers using them as desktop nearfield speakers.

I do have another question that is connected with what you brought up though. I've heard conflicting answers on phase integration of the subwoofer with the main speakers. Some say that not having them phase aligned would be noticeable. However, others say that it is not something that is noticeable with bass 80 Hz and below. In fact, they suggest using the phase as a way of altering the wave interaction in the room and thus moving the standing waves away from the seating area with a single subwoofer.

Or doing so similarly with say two subwoofers. Place the two subwoofers in locations that are available in the room, leave one phase knob at 0 degrees and play with the phase knob on the other subwoofer. This would alter the wave interaction in the room and allow you to move the standing waves away from the seating locations as much as possible and usually ending up with similar frequency response from one seat to the next, which can then be globally EQ'ed. This is what can be done in a room that is not sealed and rectangular, where the best locations to place the subwoofers are known, from Harmon's research. With each seat having similar response, one can then use room EQ to get similar response from seat to seat, if the subs are EQ'ed as a mono subwoofer and can also be phase aligned with the main speakers as a mono subwoofer. But, are the two subs really phase aligned with the woofers in the main speakers at that point?

[davef]

I do have another question that is connected with what you brought up though. I've heard conflicting answers on phase integration of the subwoofer with the main speakers. Some say that not having them phase aligned would be noticeable. However, others say that it is not something that is noticeable with bass 80 Hz and below. In fact, they suggest using the phase as a way of altering the wave interaction in the room and thus moving the standing waves away from the seating area with a single subwoofer.

Or doing so similarly with say two subwoofers. Place the two subwoofers in locations that are available in the room, leave one phase knob at 0 degrees and play with the phase knob on the other subwoofer. This would alter the wave interaction in the room and allow you to move the standing waves away from the seating locations as much as possible and usually ending up with similar frequency response from one seat to the next, which can then be globally EQ'ed. This is what can be done in a room that is not sealed and rectangular, where the best locations to place the subwoofers are known, from Harmon's research. With each seat having similar response, one can then use room EQ to get similar response from seat to seat, if the subs are EQ'ed as a mono subwoofer and can also be phase aligned with the main speakers as a mono subwoofer. But, are the two subs really phase aligned with the woofers in the main speakers at that point?

Phase integration between the main speakers and subwoofer when using bass management would be noticeable with in-room measurements. If they are not in perfect phase, than you will end up with frequency response issues at the crossover point and typically up to a half octave above and below. Now, perfect phase alignment between sources at different locations is only possible at one location. So if you manage to achieve perfect phase alignment between speaker and sub at one location, as soon as you move out of that location - you can no longer have perfect phase alignment. I can not say one way or another if this is audible or not, that can only be determined by the listener. It is actually quite complex with far too many variables at play.

As far as "moving standing waves" - I suppose in theory, and with proper measurement equipment, one can use multiple subwoofers, each with having a way to adjust phase at a specific frequency (would require very precise DSP) to reduce the amplitude of a specific standing wave frequency or change the timing such that at a specific point in the room the listener would be in a node rather than an antinode. However, I can't even begin to imagine the complexity of this.

Problem is that rooms will have multiple standing waves, all at different frequencies -- resolve one and you cause issues at with others...

[N Boros]

Phase integration between the main speakers and subwoofer when using bass management would be noticeable with in-room measurements. If they are not in perfect phase, than you will end up with frequency response issues at the crossover point and typically up to a half octave above and below. Now, perfect phase alignment between sources at different locations is only possible at one location. So if you manage to achieve perfect phase alignment between speaker and sub at one location, as soon as you move out of that location - you can no longer have perfect phase alignment. I can not say one way or another if this is audible or not, that can only be determined by the listener. It is actually quite complex with far too many variables at play.

As far as "moving standing waves" - I suppose in theory, and with proper measurement equipment, one can use multiple subwoofers, each with having a way to adjust phase at a specific frequency (would require very precise DSP) to reduce the amplitude of a specific standing wave frequency or change the timing such that at a specific point in the room the listener would be in a node rather than an antinode. However, I can't even begin to imagine the complexity of this.

Problem is that rooms will have multiple standing waves, all at different frequencies -- resolve one and you cause issues at with others...

This is very helpful. Thank you.

[Quinn]

My son has been using a pair of HTM-200's on his desktop and this amp.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071JN7GXN/

I have been quite impressed with this combination.

My youngest just built a desktop PC for her VR system. I'm pretty sure I still have that pair of white 200s you built a decade ago, for another member, tucked away somewhere. I may order that amp for her.

[curtis]

My youngest just built a desktop PC for her VR system. I'm pretty sure I still have that pair of white 200s you built a decade ago , fo another member, tucked away somewhere. I my order that amp for her.
Oh wow! A Quinn siting!

[Quinn]

Oh wow! A Quinn siting!

The summer sale email got me poking around a bit. Weird to look at my 15 year old and think I've known some of you longer.

I need to start picking your and Dave's brains on guiding a gifted STEM kid. Being told not to let her go into programming but that she needs to know how to code to read code for trouble shooting. She is being encouraged by people in the STEM field to work toward being an IT system architect. She loves robotics too and built a drone(including 3D printed parts) for her robotic engineering class.

[curtis]

The summer sale email got me poking around a bit. Weird to look at my 15 year old and think I've known some of you longer.

I need to start picking your and Dave's brains on guiding a gifted STEM kid. Being told not to let her go into programming but that she needs to know how to code to read code for trouble shooting. She is being encouraged by people in the STEM field to work toward being an IT system architect. She loves robotics too and built a drone(including 3D printed parts) for her robotic engineering class.
PM me your email address.

[SunByrne]

I need to start picking your and Dave's brains on guiding a gifted STEM kid. Being told not to let her go into programming but that she needs to know how to code to read code for trouble shooting. She is being encouraged by people in the STEM field to work toward being an IT system architect. She loves robotics too and built a drone(including 3D printed parts) for her robotic engineering class.

PM me as well. I can put your daughter in touch with one of my colleagues who is a female Mech Engineering professor who does a lot of mentoring and has been involved in a lot of women in STEM initiatives.

[davef]

The summer sale email got me poking around a bit. Weird to look at my 15 year old and think I've known some of you longer.

I need to start picking your and Dave's brains on guiding a gifted STEM kid. Being told not to let her go into programming but that she needs to know how to code to read code for trouble shooting. She is being encouraged by people in the STEM field to work toward being an IT system architect. She loves robotics too and built a drone(including 3D printed parts) for her robotic engineering class.

Hey Chris,

Time sure flies doesn't it ;)

My son is also a STEM kid and he is now looking at engineering programs at various UC schools (he's a senior now) His focus is computer engineering and he was also told to stay away from programming. Guiding him hasn't been easy, but I have gently pushed him towards 3d CAD design --> 3D printing just for fun. For example, I recently needed a new and improved stand for my iPhone. My son asked me what I wanted for father's day -- bingo... I told him I wanted a Matthew designed and made iPhone stand.

End result was great - and he engraved it which I didn't expect. Everything was done in 3D CAD and then translated into a "slicing" program for use on our 3D printer. Great learning experience for him and his dad ;)

So now when I need a custom part, or something clever made for the house - I challenge him to see whose design would sell more, mine or his. He usually wins...

[Quinn]

This past weekend we dug the white 200s, that are likely as old as her, outta storage and hooked them up to the amp Dave linked. Sounds great, that Dave guy may know something about designing speakers, and with it having blue tooth she can stream off her phone as well. She is very happy with it.

She managed to get into the local school district's STEM Academy and is very happy there other than Honors Pre-Calc is kicking her ass workload wise with having to do real world cost analysis and presentations using Excel. I've been warning her for a few years that there will come a time that she will no longer be able to rely on her tremendous memory and will have to actually study.

With the 200s in near field, tweeters to the inside or outside?