Getting some more low end punch for stereo listening with the Sierra Towers

[freesole]

Hi everyone,

It has been a while since I last posted here. I have been enjoying the Sierra Towers with RAAL for a few years now without any complaints whatsoever. Recently, I went into some audio shops and upon listening to speakers even up to $10K, I felt the Sierra Towers with those RAAL tweeters outperformed them all in the mid to upper ranges (which is really incredible to me). The only area that I want to get more is the lower range where I feel the Sierra lacks. Here is my setup:


Speakers: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower with RAAL
Amp: Line Magnetic 805ia Tube Integrated
DAC: PS Audio Directstream Junior
Subwoofer: Hsu Research VTF3 Mk5


I spend most of my time listening to music (jazz, soul, blues, hip hop, various female vocals, etc). I've been trying to fiddle around with my sub and haven't been able to get the results that I want. Instead of that dynamic and tight low end punch, the bass sometimes feels a little disconnected and boomy. The VTF3 works great for HT but I'm not finding it to provide the right sound for me in my stereo listening experience.

Maybe it is the placement or the settings in the sub? I currently have the high level inputs connected to the tube amp's speaker outputs. The sub is located currently in the corner of a rectangular room (mainly due to constraints with space and aesthetics (WAF)). Would a different sub work better (ie a servo sub from Rhythmik)?

[SunByrne]

Maybe it is the placement or the settings in the sub? I currently have the high level inputs connected to the tube amp's speaker outputs. The sub is located currently in the corner of a rectangular room (mainly due to constraints with space and aesthetics (WAF)).

Could be this. Dialing in subwoofers is kind of an art. Have you tried REW?



Would a different sub work better (ie a servo sub from Rhythmik)?

The sealed Rythmik subs are notoriously good for music. I bought one this summer (an L22) and it's been terrific.

[curtis]

Tube amps don’t usually have the power/dynamics for tight punchy bass.

What is the crossover frequency to the sub? If it is below 80hz, I would raise it and let it handle the punchy region.

[freesole]

Tube amps don’t usually have the power/dynamics for tight punchy bass.

What is the crossover frequency to the sub? If it is below 80hz, I would raise it and let it handle the punchy region.

Re: Tube amps - That may be the case. I have the Hsu crossed over at 80 right now.

[freesole]

Could be this. Dialing in subwoofers is kind of an art. Have you tried REW?




The sealed Rythmik subs are notoriously good for music. I bought one this summer (an L22) and it's been terrific.

So I have heard (about the Rythmik) which is why I am curious to see if a sub from them would be a good improvement.

Apologies for the newbie question - what is REW?

[curtis]

Re: Tube amps - That may be the case. I have the Hsu crossed over at 80 right now.
I would try even higher.

[racrawford65]

So I have heard (about the Rythmik) which is why I am curious to see if a sub from them would be a good improvement.

Apologies for the newbie question - what is REW?

Room EQ Wizard - free software although you will need to buy a mic
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

[N Boros]

So I have heard (about the Rythmik) which is why I am curious to see if a sub from them would be a good improvement.

Apologies for the newbie question - what is REW?

If you haven't yet, I would suggest doing the subwoofer crawl. Or better yet, if you have a tripod and an SPL meter or microphone run sweeps from say 100 Hz down to 20Hz in your main seating position and then move the subwoofer around the various locations to see what will make the measurements most flat. Typically if it is not flat you, hopefully you can at least not have any big dips (or nulls). The peaks can be fixed partially with EQ or some sort. However, it won't fix any ringing related to them being caused by standing waves. This last issue can really only be fixed well with getting a second subwoofer and placing it optimally across the room in a way that it minimizes these standing waves and the extra ringing that comes along with them. It will also allow you to get consistent bass from one seat to another, if you care about multiple seats.

If you didn't have the lower powered tube amps, I would suggest setting the crossover lower than 80 Hz as well to see if that helps. If you still can't get the subwoofer to sound right at that point it might be time to try a Rythmik subwoofer. I have a Outlaw LFM-1 subwoofer (also designed by Hsu) that I know is as optimally placed as possible and if I A/B it with a 50Hz and 80 Hz crossover the 80 Hz crossover produces bass that sounds a bit more bloated and sluggish and yet when I run sweeps in my seat it sounds pretty even. This tells me that sluggishness is due to the extra ringing from a standing wave or a limitation of the transient response of the subwoofer. It is probably a little bit of both in my case, but I know that I need a subwoofer for more output in my very large open concept room, so I plan to upgrade to a pair of larger Rythmik subs to make sure that both issues are addressed.

[davef]

Hi everyone,

It has been a while since I last posted here. I have been enjoying the Sierra Towers with RAAL for a few years now without any complaints whatsoever. Recently, I went into some audio shops and upon listening to speakers even up to $10K, I felt the Sierra Towers with those RAAL tweeters outperformed them all in the mid to upper ranges (which is really incredible to me). The only area that I want to get more is the lower range where I feel the Sierra lacks. Here is my setup:


Speakers: Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower with RAAL
Amp: Line Magnetic 805ia Tube Integrated
DAC: PS Audio Directstream Junior
Subwoofer: Hsu Research VTF3 Mk5


I spend most of my time listening to music (jazz, soul, blues, hip hop, various female vocals, etc). I've been trying to fiddle around with my sub and haven't been able to get the results that I want. Instead of that dynamic and tight low end punch, the bass sometimes feels a little disconnected and boomy. The VTF3 works great for HT but I'm not finding it to provide the right sound for me in my stereo listening experience.

Maybe it is the placement or the settings in the sub? I currently have the high level inputs connected to the tube amp's speaker outputs. The sub is located currently in the corner of a rectangular room (mainly due to constraints with space and aesthetics (WAF)). Would a different sub work better (ie a servo sub from Rhythmik)?

Since you do not have any bass management (speakers are running full range) - this sounds like an integration issue between the towers and the HSU sub.

How does the bass sound with simply the towers in play (no sub)?

[eyecatcher]

That is a nice setup. I agree with Dave, the towers are running full range so there is going to be some overlap in the mid bass. It is most likely integration/tuning/placement. The towers have great mid bass. If the sub is not on the same plane as the towers and if they are not level matched good you can get an out of phase or may have a room null. You should try it without the sub and you can also try to flipping the phase switch. I would personally drop the crossover down lower to 60hz range and you would proably get the tightest bass(least boomy) from the lower q setting on the amp in the .3-.5 range. Other than that you would need an spl meter and some test tones at a miminum to get the best integration or use room eq wizard and a umik mic with a laptop to see what is going on.