Luna vs S2 when combined with Rythmik F8

[jimb]

I have S2s. I am considering getting speakers for a bedroom TV reinforcement situation (so some movies and music, never really loud). At the moment, Luna and S2's are very close in price. I think I've even read that Dave F prefers some aspects of Luna to S2. It seems clear that Luna has a mechanical advantage in being more easily placed/mounted. So the question is, for those with experience of them, the sonic pros and cons of Luna + F8 vs S2 + F8.

AND, I assume F8 is the preferred sub to free up the L&Rs for my uses.

Thanks.

[davef]

I have S2s. I am considering getting speakers for a bedroom TV reinforcement situation (so some movies and music, never really loud). At the moment, Luna and S2's are very close in price. I think I've even read that Dave F prefers some aspects of Luna to S2. It seems clear that Luna has a mechanical advantage in being more easily placed/mounted. So the question is, for those with experience of them, the sonic pros and cons of Luna + F8 vs S2 + F8.

AND, I assume F8 is the preferred sub to free up the L&Rs for my uses.

Thanks.

I just recently set up a pair of Luna's in my bedroom for both music and movies. It is a very large bedroom and I am loving how the Luna's are performing in this application. Surprisingly room filling and dynamic and I bumped up the bass on this digital amp by +3 and am even satisfied using them without a subwoofer.

I think for a bedroom, Luna's + small sub are perfect.. F8 sub is a terrific choice but you could easily just go with the L12 and save a bundle.

[jimb]

... I think for a bedroom, Luna's + small sub are perfect. F8 sub is a terrific choice but you could easily just go with the L12 and save a bundle.

Well, INTERESTING! I assumed the F8 was a better match for possibly higher cross-over and matching the 'speed' of the smaller woofer in the Luna, and for smaller size and weight than your other subs. But I now see that the L12 is no slouch in these regards, either, and has the LFE input. I'd be driving the system from an AV receiver. However, I do also see the L12 caution about higher "perceived noise" using the LFE input. I have had a bad experience with exactly this with a much more expensive Velodyne sub! So now I'll have to ask the benefits of F8 over L12! If there is no benefit in my current application, where might I prefer the F8 down the road? Why would anyone prefer it to the L12?

:confused:

Let me know if this should now go over to the sub forum.

[RicardoJoa]

If you are going for one sub i would take Dave suggestions on a bigger sub where you only cross them at lower frequency. With the F8 you can cross them over higher frequency at a closer to the main and dual sub set up.

[davef]

Well, INTERESTING! I assumed the F8 was a better match for possibly higher cross-over and matching the 'speed' of the smaller woofer in the Luna, and for smaller size and weight than your other subs. But I now see that the L12 is no slouch in these regards, either, and has the LFE input. I'd be driving the system from an AV receiver. However, I do also see the L12 caution about higher "perceived noise" using the LFE input. I have had a bad experience with exactly this with a much more expensive Velodyne sub! So now I'll have to ask the benefits of F8 over L12! If there is no benefit in my current application, where might I prefer the F8 down the road? Why would anyone prefer it to the L12?

:confused:

Let me know if this should now go over to the sub forum.

Luna's can easily be crossed at 80Hz so there is really no reason for a higher crossover point and I wouldn't recommend it. The F8 is indeed the better overall subwoofer in my opinion - but at nearly twice the price of the L12, I feel the L12 offers a better value and is likely all you would ever need in your bedroom.

[jimb]

Thanks, Dave. Just the comments I needed to hear. I'm comparing black oak, so the price difference isn't as great at the moment. :D

I'm wanting this to be a long-term component, so I'm open to value in a more demanding, future use, if I can foresee it.

In the end, I might switch it around and go Luna + sub for the main TV and my S2s, stand-alone, for the bedroom. But then, why not S2s in both places? Switching my proposed 'venue' from the bedroom to a modest living room at modest volumes, do you have a sonic preference for either Luna or S2 when paired with a sub (F8 or L12)?

:confused:

I'll be deciding once I'm back from a long business trip in a couple weeks...

[davef]

do you have a sonic preference for either Luna or S2 when paired with a sub (F8 or L12)?

:confused:

I'll be deciding once I'm back from a long business trip in a couple weeks...

Honestly, I really don't - they are so close to each other when used with a sub. However, the Sierra-2 is definitely more dynamic - simply due to physics. I now have a pair of Lunas in my bedroom and they are so tiny and discreet yet the sound is addicting. In this room, I prefer Lunas to Sierra-2, but only because of how small they are.

[jimb]

Thanks again, Dave. So one last point (still related to this buy decision): How do you feel about Luna vs S2 for 5.1 surrounds? Please feel free to direct me to another post if this is already addressed.

[RicardoJoa]

Personally if you can swing i will go for the sierra2. Like Dave said sierra 2 are more dynamic, they are probably more capable higher volume.

[jimb]

Thanks, everyone.

Yes! As I noted earlier, with S2 on sale, the extra cost over Luna is not a major factor to me right now. However, size and weight are factors for some uses, as is the port location, and I am really wanting Lunas to 'work' for me in one of a few applications. So, I have ordered a pair of Lunas for a few possible uses. Initially, I will most likely use these for my main TV sound, with a sub, and move my S2s to the bedroom for TV and music duties, unassisted. The Lunas might swap places with the S2s later, or they might become surrounds or 'desk top' computer sound system speakers. While I am interested in the Natural finish in one place, for the range of uses these might find, I went with Satin Expresso (same as my S2s).

In addition, I've ordered an F8 in black oak for preferred look and sale price! Here again, I am interested to try it for form factor and sonic character. While on sale, the price is not an insurmountable stretch over an L12. (Luna+F8 is only about 6% more than S2+L12.) My priority is bass "quality" and integration. I don't need the last 2 Hz of extension, or the extra 0.5 dB I would get at 20 Hz with the L12. There is potential to add another one for room correction one day, and that would increase output as well.

:D We'll see! Due to travel, it will be a few weeks before I really get to try it all out.

[davef]

Thanks again, Dave. So one last point (still related to this buy decision): How do you feel about Luna vs S2 for 5.1 surrounds? Please feel free to direct me to another post if this is already addressed.

For surrounds, I recommend going Luna's over Sierra-2 as the Luna's are more placement friendly and have a bit wider dispersion.

[jimb]

Thanks. As I said, I have now ordered Luna and F8. It certainly seems best to have Luna in my mix of speakers for one of a few uses!

[jimb]

To update, I requested delayed shipment to correspond with when I'd be returning from a business trip. Both items arrived when expected and in great condition.:)

I have had a severe head cold since my return, so my sonic judgement is not great, but the sub seems good. I have absolutely nothing to complain about, but then I don't have anything to compare against. I want it for best possible music performance and best blending with Luna (or Sierra) as well as modest movie duties at moderate volume. It works great so far. I run it from a Denon AVR-X6200W crossed over at 80 Hz. On the sub, I have the XO at 200 Hz, 12 db/oct to keep that circuit out of the way, and use "Low music" extension. It sits about a foot below and to the right of the right side main speaker. Sub delay is set to 0 and distances are set in the Denon.

Luna is less clear. My hearing is off and I have both Sierra 2 and some very high end speakers against which I judge. The Luna, full range, is just not deep enough to be satisfying to me. S2 is only just barely adequate there, and Luna loses that little bit. This is not a dig at Luna - it is SMALL! Size, weight, front porting and backside details give me ways to use it better than S2. Running Luna from the Denon set to SMALL, and adding the F8 does a nice job of compensating at the bottom end. So I'm happy to keep it rather than returning it for another pair of S2 (it was always going to be Luna or another pair of S2). Furthermore, as a future near-field monitor on a desktop, it might be great (over kill of course). Within its range, it really does sound very good: very open and transparent. It is a superior SMALL speaker. Surprisingly, broadband noise sounds higher pitched on the S2 than the Luna. I didn't expect that. The balance is a little different.

So, as hoped, originally, the S2s go to the bedroom, "full range", and Luna takes over at the main TV with the F8.

The End

[jimb]

Traveling has died down for a bit, and I have been living with the Luna + F8 for a while now. I wanted to update that I am regularly impressed with what I hear from the Lunas - more so than I expected. Small differences in seating position make a modest but significant improvement in tonal balance, which is a room effect, so I have to rate the speakers better than my first impressions. If I don't turn them up too much (which I never do in my real usage), they are really impressive. I highly recommend them. They are expensive for their size, and a few people I know who can only have small speakers, and who I think would really enjoy them, might not be able to swing the $. But, I will be "demo'ing" them and recommending them to a couple of those people, anyway. :)

FWIW, based on some info on the Rythmik website, I set the AVR distance for the F8 at about 3 feet farther away than it is. This is better, but I have not yet really optimized the crossover. Hopefully, I'll get to report on that at a later time, if I can get some additional technical information.

I'll put some comments about the sound and AVR modes in a new post.