Sierra RAAL Tower Vs Aperion Verus II Grand

[MaxTemp]

Im looking to purchase a 5.1 system for mostly home theater with separate subs crossed at 80Hz.
Anyone have any experience or insight between the main channels and center speaker?
Im in Australia, so cant test the systems before buying.
If I was to get Ascend, it would have to be with RAAL upgrade.
Does Ascend do any specials for Black Friday or any other sales?
Aperion has 30% off, so getting Verus II Grand Towers, Center and 2 Bookshelf (in Gloss Cherry) ends up being $2,769.
RAAL towers, Horizon RAAL center and 2 Lunas (in Satin Espresso) ends up being $5,248.
Is it worth almost double the price?
I wasnt even considering Aperion, but the sale seems quite attractive.
I need to add shipping as well (hopefully domestic shipping is part of the price and can be deducted).
All opinions appreciated.

[Jack1949]

Here's a thread that started out comparing center speakers and journeyed to comparing the Sierra and Aperion towers. It may help you decide. The link should take you to the section where the Sierra towers arrive at his house.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2027777-center-channel-svs-ultra-vs-aperion-verus-grand-4.html#post36249562

Personally I've never heard the Aperions but I do own the RAAL Sierra towers and Horizon and love them. So I can't say whether the Sierras are worth twice the price. I know for me that would be a tough pill to swallow without being able to hear both before purchasing.

Good luck with your decision.
Jack

[MaxTemp]

Thanks Jack. I had read that thread a while ago when I became interested in Ascend.
I did refresh my memory after you sent the link :)

[Jack1949]

You're welcome. That thread introduced me to Ascend and I'm glad I happened to find it when I did.

[MaxTemp]

From specs and users experiences overall no doubt indicate the Ascend products are superior.
But are there any good deals or discounts they offer during Black Friday or in general?

[curtis]

From specs and users experiences overall no doubt indicate the Ascend products are superior.
But are there any good deals or discounts they offer during Black Friday or in general?
You may not be on the mailing list...

Did you see this?

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?6564-Holiday-Sale!&p=58199#post58199

[N Boros]

Both are very good speakers, but the Sierra with the Raal ribbon tweeter is a step above. A few years ago I compared the Sierra 2 and the Verus Grand I towers in my room. Aperion was running a heck of a deal at the time, where the towers were less than the Sierra 2s in price. Anyways, both have good uniform dispersion where you don't have to worry hardly at all about toeing them in, though the Sierra 2s are a step above the Aperion's if you were to measure them. Both are detailed and could delineate instruments quite well (rather than smearing of them together like with lesser speakers). The Sierra 2's were surprising in the depth (into the room) of the soundstage and the width and height were also good. But, the Verus Grand's soundstage was much wider and taller though. I don't think that they are as accurate in this regard as the Sierra 2s, from what Dave has said. He has mentioned how it is not difficult to make a huge soundstage, but he is going for an accurate sized one.

It is hard to describe, but while I could hear similar detail and delineation from either the Verus Grands or the Sierra 2s, the Sierra 2s had this extra level of clarity that the Verus Grands were missing. It has to be related to the superior transient response in the Sierra 2s. They can just start and stop, quicker and you don't get this subtle yet unmistakable lack of additional stuff being played from them. Even though I was going to spend a little bit more money on a bookshelf speaker over a tower speaker, I had no doubt in my mind that the Sierra 2s were the better choice for me. So the Verus Grands went back.

I urge you to do the comparison yourself if you can take advantage of the free shipping Aperion gives both ways. I'm fairly certain that you would be sending them back and keeping the Ascend speakers.

[kyzersoze98]

Im looking to purchase a 5.1 system for mostly home theater with separate subs crossed at 80Hz.
Anyone have any experience or insight between the main channels and center speaker?
Im in Australia, so cant test the systems before buying.
If I was to get Ascend, it would have to be with RAAL upgrade.
Does Ascend do any specials for Black Friday or any other sales?
Aperion has 30% off, so getting Verus II Grand Towers, Center and 2 Bookshelf (in Gloss Cherry) ends up being $2,769.
RAAL towers, Horizon RAAL center and 2 Lunas (in Satin Espresso) ends up being $5,248.
Is it worth almost double the price?
I wasnt even considering Aperion, but the sale seems quite attractive.
I need to add shipping as well (hopefully domestic shipping is part of the price and can be deducted).
All opinions appreciated.

Since you plan on using subs why not go with five Sierra 2 speakers and save some money.

[MaxTemp]

Both are very good speakers, but the Sierra with the Raal ribbon tweeter is a step above. A few years ago I compared the Sierra 2 and the Verus Grand I towers in my room. Aperion was running a heck of a deal at the time, where the towers were less than the Sierra 2s in price. Anyways, both have good uniform dispersion where you don't have to worry hardly at all about toeing them in, though the Sierra 2s are a step above the Aperion's if you were to measure them. Both are detailed and could delineate instruments quite well (rather than smearing of them together like with lesser speakers). The Sierra 2's were surprising in the depth (into the room) of the soundstage and the width and height were also good. But, the Verus Grand's soundstage was much wider and taller though. I don't think that they are as accurate in this regard as the Sierra 2s, from what Dave has said. He has mentioned how it is not difficult to make a huge soundstage, but he is going for an accurate sized one.

It is hard to describe, but while I could hear similar detail and delineation from either the Verus Grands or the Sierra 2s, the Sierra 2s had this extra level of clarity that the Verus Grands were missing. It has to be related to the superior transient response in the Sierra 2s. They can just start and stop, quicker and you don't get this subtle yet unmistakable lack of additional stuff being played from them. Even though I was going to spend a little bit more money on a bookshelf speaker over a tower speaker, I had no doubt in my mind that the Sierra 2s were the better choice for me. So the Verus Grands went back.

I urge you to do the comparison yourself if you can take advantage of the free shipping Aperion gives both ways. I'm fairly certain that you would be sending them back and keeping the Ascend speakers.

Thanks for your thoughts.
I cannot trial them since Im in Australia, so just researching based on specs/reviews/opinions.

[MaxTemp]

Since you plan on using subs why not go with five Sierra 2 speakers and save some money.

I would prefer the dedicated mid range driver in the tower, plus the better RAAL tweeter.

[MaxTemp]

I have contacted Ascend through email and will wait to see the costs involved.

[N Boros]

Thanks for your thoughts.
I cannot trial them since Im in Australia, so just researching based on specs/reviews/opinions.

Sorry. I did read your original post, but forgot about you living in Australia by the time that I replied. In that case I will say that I thought beforehand that the Sierra 2s would be better than the Aperion Verus Grand Towers and the SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers before I listened to them. This was mainly because it seemed that the Aperion speakers were putting more money into the drivers and cabinet construction and I could tell that Dave was very good at designing speakers. Also, it was hard to hear anyone that had bad things to say about Ascend. In fact, most things people had to say were very positive. I wanted to listen to all of them, so that I was sure that spending the extra money would be worth it for me. After all, I am planning to expand to a 7.2.4 setup in the future. After listening to all three I had no doubt in my mind that spending the extra money was worth it. Again, I thought that the Sierra 2s were worth the extra price when the Aperion Verus Grand towers were less money.

I do mostly use the Ascend speakers for movies. But, I will say that when I listen to music through them I am still floored at how good they sound, especially with great recordings. With those you really can close your eyes and imagine that they are playing in your room.

[Jack1949]

...

I do mostly use the Ascend speakers for movies... But, I will say that when I listen to music through them I am still floored at how good they sound, especially with great recordings. With those you really can close your eyes and imagine that they are playing in your room.

I mostly use my Ascends for music, and I agree wholeheartedly with this statement!

Jack

[davef]

Im looking to purchase a 5.1 system for mostly home theater with separate subs crossed at 80Hz.
Anyone have any experience or insight between the main channels and center speaker?
Im in Australia, so cant test the systems before buying.
If I was to get Ascend, it would have to be with RAAL upgrade.
Does Ascend do any specials for Black Friday or any other sales?
Aperion has 30% off, so getting Verus II Grand Towers, Center and 2 Bookshelf (in Gloss Cherry) ends up being $2,769.
RAAL towers, Horizon RAAL center and 2 Lunas (in Satin Espresso) ends up being $5,248.
Is it worth almost double the price?
I wasnt even considering Aperion, but the sale seems quite attractive.
I need to add shipping as well (hopefully domestic shipping is part of the price and can be deducted).
All opinions appreciated.

Hi MaxTemp,

As you can probably already figure out - our prices on the products you are considering are already priced as low as is possible. We are trying to sell a considerably higher priced product (what they cost us to build) in a market typically reserved for China-made products. Our profit margin on these products is absurdly low (almost laughable) and at our current prices, we will never have a sale on these.

I would be willing to bet that the cost of just 2 of the custom 70-20XRam ribbons we are using is similar in component costs to the fully completed pair of the 2 towers you are considering from our competitor. In other words, it is nearly impossible to compare prices.

That being said, at that sale pricing - the Aperion system is certainly attractive and there is really no way to determine which you would actually prefer without auditioning them. It really comes down to what you are looking for in your speakers. The RAAL in our tower and horizon is considered by myself and by many other professionals to simply be the best tweeter in the world and we aim to compete with speakers costing 10x + the price of ours. Add to that our phenomenal custom midrange and true made-in-the-USA bamboo tower and horizon cabinets, combined with assembly, testing and packaging here in the USA - and you can quickly see what type of performance and quality we are offering for the price...

Regrettably, we will likely be raising our tower and horizon prices in the 1st quarter of 2018.

I'll look for your email and try to get back to you this evening or tomorrow :)

[GunmetalR56]

Here's a thread that started out comparing center speakers and journeyed to comparing the Sierra and Aperion towers. It may help you decide. The link should take you to the section where the Sierra towers arrive at his house.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2027777-center-channel-svs-ultra-vs-aperion-verus-grand-4.html#post36249562

Personally I've never heard the Aperions but I do own the RAAL Sierra towers and Horizon and love them. So I can't say whether the Sierras are worth twice the price. I know for me that would be a tough pill to swallow without being able to hear both before purchasing.

Good luck with your decision.
Jack

It always makes me smile when that thread helps someone trying to make the same decision I was. I still have zero regrets about my Sierra tower/horizon purchase.. I even added some Sierra 2 surrounds for good measure!

Last night was another reminder of how much I enjoy these speakers. I had just added a couple of PB13 subs to the media room and decided to redo the front stage completely. I ended up with the towers sitting 11 ft. apart with some mild toe-in and the main chair is around 7 ft. away.

I was concerned about them being so far apart while sitting so close (difficult room) and decided to sit and listen to a few songs in 2.1. A few songs turned into a few more and 3 hours later I noticed the time.. yikes!

Even with the speakers so far apart.. a center image just snapped into place. I heard sounds overhead, sounds off to the sides.. it was great!

Did I mention how much I like these speakers?

For anyone still on the fence about Ascend.. do yourself a favor and try them!

I bet you won't regret it. :)

[crazycuz2k]

Just out of curiosity, I know running Luna's in surround is nice, but completely overkill unless you're listening to multi-channel audio. I believe Dave uses the HTM-200's as surrounds in his listening room. In movies, surround sound is only used for ambient sounds, and special effects. As long as the speakers are voice matched, which all the Ascend speakers are, then you'll have the same immersive experience. Also, again for primarily HT use, you'll be fine with the Sierra-2 vs the Sierra Towers w RAAL unless you need more db's or want a little more quality in the midrange. Stereo music is where you'll notice the bigger difference between the Sierra 2's vs the towers. As for me, for my HT, I went with Sierra-1 NrT's for my mains, Horizon RAAL for my center (this is where the bulk of the work is done, dialog), Rythmik FVHP15 sub, and some paradigm bi-polars in the rear. I couldn't waste the Luna's and have them in my office, and my Sierra-2 are in my dedicated 2.1 stereo system in the bedroom. I'm planning on upgrading the Sierra-2 to Sierra Towers and now that I know that Dave is raising is prices... now is that time :)

[billy p]

It always makes me smile when that thread helps someone trying to make the same decision I was. I still have zero regrets about my Sierra tower/horizon purchase.. I even added some Sierra 2 surrounds for good measure!

Last night was another reminder of how much I enjoy these speakers. I had just added a couple of PB13 subs to the media room and decided to redo the front stage completely. I ended up with the towers sitting 11 ft. apart with some mild toe-in and the main chair is around 7 ft. away.

I was concerned about them being so far apart while sitting so close (difficult room) and decided to sit and listen to a few songs in 2.1. A few songs turned into a few more and 3 hours later I noticed the time.. yikes!

Even with the speakers so far apart.. a center image just snapped into place. I heard sounds overhead, sounds off to the sides.. it was great!

Did I mention how much I like these speakers?

For anyone still on the fence about Ascend.. do yourself a favor and try them!

I bet you won't regret it. :)


Glad to hear you're still enjoying your Sierra set up. You know.... I followed your progression and fully agree the Sierras imaging is their highest attribute. I've often gone days or perhaps weeks without listening to single song but when I do....I ask why...lol.

It's been several years...corny I know but I'm still in the honey moon phase with these speakers....:).

[curtis]

...fully agree the Sierras imaging is their highest attribute. I've often gone days or perhaps weeks without listening to single song but when I do....I ask why...lol.

While I think I at least partially understand how Dave gets such great imaging from his speakers, it's a hallmark of all Ascend speakers, I wish I really knew the "secret sauce", but then Dave would probably have to kill me. :)

[billy p]

While I think I at least partially understand how Dave gets such great imaging from his speakers, it's a hallmark of all Ascend speakers, I wish I really knew the "secret sauce", but then Dave would probably have to kill me. :)

Ha! Its better your kept in the dark...:D

[N Boros]

Just out of curiosity, I know running Luna's in surround is nice, but completely overkill unless you're listening to multi-channel audio. I believe Dave uses the HTM-200's as surrounds in his listening room. In movies, surround sound is only used for ambient sounds, and special effects. As long as the speakers are voice matched, which all the Ascend speakers are, then you'll have the same immersive experience. Also, again for primarily HT use, you'll be fine with the Sierra-2 vs the Sierra Towers w RAAL unless you need more db's or want a little more quality in the midrange. Stereo music is where you'll notice the bigger difference between the Sierra 2's vs the towers. As for me, for my HT, I went with Sierra-1 NrT's for my mains, Horizon RAAL for my center (this is where the bulk of the work is done, dialog), Rythmik FVHP15 sub, and some paradigm bi-polars in the rear. I couldn't waste the Luna's and have them in my office, and my Sierra-2 are in my dedicated 2.1 stereo system in the bedroom. I'm planning on upgrading the Sierra-2 to Sierra Towers and now that I know that Dave is raising is prices... now is that time :)

If I’m understanding you correctly, you have tried the Sierra Luna’s as surround and found them to be overkill for your HT use, so you moved them to an office setup?

I too use my Sierra 2s for a HT setup and I am debating the Lunas for surrounds. I’m pretty much convinced to use HTM 200s for surround backs.

[racrawford65]

If I’m understanding you correctly, you have tried the Sierra Luna’s as surround and found them to be overkill for your HT use, so you moved them to an office setup?

I too use my Sierra 2s for a HT setup and I am debating the Lunas for surrounds. I’m pretty much convinced to use HTM 200s for surround backs.

I've got a 5.1.4 setup - Sierra 2's across the front and HTM 200s for surrounds & ATMOS ( .1 Rythmik E15) For me, HTM200s are fine in surround duty as I'm not big into multichannel music.

My setup is dual - music & HT, but seems to be more music than movies now a days. So, I am contemplating a pair of the Towers for L/R - any one in the Houston area with a pair that would demo them for me - just to get an idea of how they sound versus my S2's?

[crazycuz2k]

If I’m understanding you correctly, you have tried the Sierra Luna’s as surround and found them to be overkill for your HT use, so you moved them to an office setup?

I too use my Sierra 2s for a HT setup and I am debating the Lunas for surrounds. I’m pretty much convinced to use HTM 200s for surround backs.

If price is concern, which the original op was discussing comparing Aperion's 5 speakers ~$2,800 to Ascend's 5 speakers (~$5,200 RAAL Tower, RAAL Horizon, and Luna's), then Luna's would definitely be overkill compared to Aperion bookshelves for surround duty. I would get the Sierra 2 X 3 and 2 HTM-200 SE which would run ~2,300 and that would be a comparable 5 channel HT system. If I were listening to multi-channel SACD's or wanted to upgrade the surrounds, the Sierra-1's are great sounding bookshelves, probably the best sounding bookshelves under 1K, and that would cost ~$2,800. Again, alot is dependent on the size of the listening room which the op didn't mention.

And yes, for me, the Luna's sound too good to be relegated to "JUST" surround sound functions... they deserve equal footing with any bookshelf or floorstander (with a sub) because they sound amazing, size not withstanding, the fact that they're so small and so easily placed make them that much more versatile.

[sludgeogre]

I know I haven't been on the forum in forever, but I came back when someone asked about my speaker upgrade experience and had to chime in here. I auditioned the Aperion Verus Grand I system when I was looking for speakers. I really did enjoy them quite a bit, as was said earlier the main hallmark for me was the soundstage width and height, especially the height. Everything had a sense of being grand, so the name was certainly proper, but there was a sense of a little bit of detail smearing. I bought the Sierra Towers without hearing them, but went based off the stellar engineer, technology, and a review that mentioned the bands Tool and Opeth as being killer through these speakers and those are two of my favorite bands.

The main thing that struck me right out the gate was that the veil was lifted over every other speaker I'd ever heard, including the Aperion system. There is not a single detail that the Sierra Towers will hide. They lay all of it out for you, even problems and flaws in movies and music that you love. There's a major sense of "being there" with everything I listen to with them, even if there isn't quite a sense of envelopment in the sound like there is with the Aperion system, but I much prefer having immaculate detail to a soundstage that is artificially made larger.

When you really break down the engineering of the two, the Aperion system was clearly inferior in a lot of ways since they use cheap Chinese cabinets and their driver materials are mostly PVC. Their tweeter design is a stabilized dome tweeter that is never, ever going to compare to the RAAL ribbon. Not just in one category, but pretty much every single one of them. That dome just doesn't even come close to doing the job, and it's a big reason why the Sierra Tower out-classes that speaker.