Sierra-2 Recommend AVR Crossover Frequency?

[Roen]

I have an AVR that uses a single crossover frequency. What should I set it at? I currently have it set at 80.

If it helps, I have a PSA S1500 sub.

[curtis]

I have an AVR that uses a single crossover frequency. What should I set it at? I currently have it set at 80.

If it helps, I have a PSA S1500 sub.
80hz is a good starting point.

[curtis]

And set the crossover on the actual sub to its highest setting.

[natetg57]

I have an AVR that uses a single crossover frequency. What should I set it at? I currently have it set at 80.

If it helps, I have a PSA S1500 sub.

I personally like an 80hz crossover with my Sierra-2s and two Rythmik L12s. It should be easy to try a 60hz crossover and see how it sounds to you and in your room.

[Jaybeez]

Assuming you are using the 2's for HT, 80hz should work well. I have my 2's in a 2 channel listening room and set the sub at about 60 with minimal gain. I want to hear all the Sierras have to offer, and choose to have the sub just catch the very low end for a bit of extra punch.

[Roen]

Assuming you are using the 2's for HT, 80hz should work well. I have my 2's in a 2 channel listening room and set the sub at about 60 with minimal gain. I want to hear all the Sierras have to offer, and choose to have the sub just catch the very low end for a bit of extra punch.

I like to set my AVR up for music, and deal with it for HT use.

I'll try the 60 Hz and see how it is. Thanks!

EDIT: 60 Hz sounds good, any reason to go down to 40 Hz?

[Beave]

No reason to go down to 40Hz, but there are reasons NOT to go down to 40Hz.

The subwoofer almost certainly covers the 40 to 60Hz band better* than the Sierra 2 does. *Lower distortion, greater dynamics, less compression at high output levels.

In fact, the subwoofer almost certainly bests the Sierra 2 in the 60 to 80Hz band as well, for the same reasons mentioned above.

You could even make a case that up to 80Hz, possibly 100Hz, or even to 120Hz, the subwoofer output is superior. But above 80Hz is where you may get localization issues - ie, above around 80Hz, your pair of ears can localize sounds. And if you set your crossover around 80Hz or higher, you may start to notice that you can localize where bass is coming from the subwoofer instead of from the main speakers.

So, set it at 80Hz. If you get no localization issues, you're done. Success.

Only go lower to 60Hz if you have localization issues.

Go higher if you want the possibility for even more output/dynamics, but be aware that localization may occur with higher than 80Hz crossover settings.

[Roen]

No reason to go down to 40Hz, but there are reasons NOT to go down to 40Hz.

The subwoofer almost certainly covers the 40 to 60Hz band better* than the Sierra 2 does. *Lower distortion, greater dynamics, less compression at high output levels.

In fact, the subwoofer almost certainly bests the Sierra 2 in the 60 to 80Hz band as well, for the same reasons mentioned above.

You could even make a case that up to 80Hz, possibly 100Hz, or even to 120Hz, the subwoofer output is superior. But above 80Hz is where you may get localization issues - ie, above around 80Hz, your pair of ears can localize sounds. And if you set your crossover around 80Hz or higher, you may start to notice that you can localize where bass is coming from the subwoofer instead of from the main speakers.

So, set it at 80Hz. If you get no localization issues, you're done. Success.

Only go lower to 60Hz if you have localization issues.

Go higher if you want the possibility for even more output/dynamics, but be aware that localization may occur with higher than 80Hz crossover settings.

What's the maximum recommended crossover? My AVR can do 200 Hz. I've set it to 120 Hz and have no localization issues.

[curtis]

What's the maximum recommended crossover? My AVR can do 200 Hz. I've set it to 120 Hz and have no localization issues.
The bottom line is what sounds best to you, but like Beave posted, localization starts at about 100hz.

[Beave]

Agreed, that whatever sounds best to you is what you should use (within reason!, in other words, not 30Hz and not 200Hz! ;))

Localization can be complex and depends on your subwoofer location, your room acoustics, YOU, the content being played, etc. If you have the subwoofers right below the speakers, obviously you won't have localization issues like you would if the subs are 15 feet away from the speakers. But in general it starts to be an issue around 80Hz - that's one reason 80Hz is often a recommended crossover setting.

Another reason is that 80Hz is a reasonable frequency at and below which you could expect the subwoofer(s) to have better bass output than the main speakers. Obviously there are exceptions and this is a generalization. If you have massive towers, they may do as well as a subwoofer down to 40Hz or so. If you have tiny main speakers with a 4" midwoofer, they can't compete with a subwoofer anywhere below, say, 150Hz, maybe even higher.

With the Sierra 1 and Sierra 2, in the range of around 100Hz to maybe 150 or 200Hz, they are probably pretty comparable to the subwoofer output. Which one is superior depends on the subwoofer. But localization is almost certainly going to come into play with crossover settings above 100Hz.

So for you, I'd set the crossover at 80Hz most likely. Maybe 60Hz if you think that sounds better. And maybe 100Hz if you prefer that. If you can't tell much difference among those three, put it at 80Hz as a perfectly reasonable compromise.

[Roen]

Any recommendations for a sub-bass heavy music test track?

[curtis]

Any recommendations for a sub-bass heavy music test track?
For the best test tracks, you want stuff that has a lot in the crossover region. That way you know how well the sub and speakers are integrated. You shouldn't be able to tell when the sound crosses over between the sub and speakers.

I really like the Sheffield Labs "Drum and Track Disc". Also google subwoofer test tones. Just be careful with what you are doing. Lower frequencies don't "sound" loud. Many people turn up the volume only to damage their equipment.

[Roen]

For the best test tracks, you want stuff that has a lot in the crossover region. That way you know how well the sub and speakers are integrated. You shouldn't be able to tell when the sound crosses over between the sub and speakers.

I really like the Sheffield Labs "Drum and Track Disc". Also google subwoofer test tones. Just be careful with what you are doing. Lower frequencies don't "sound" loud. Many people turn up the volume only to damage their equipment.

I think I've settled on 90 Hz. Not too boomy on movies, but helps out the S2's in that 90-100 range.

[eyecatcher]

80-90 worked well for me too when i had the 2's

[dtsequoia]

I would suggest the Tron: Legacy soundtrack. Amazing sub test stuff.

[Roen]

I played around with the crossover some more from my previous 90 Hz setting.

I had a track that played a lot of notes in quick succession in the 60-80 Hz range (K.A.R.D. - Don't Recall). It was revealing. The S2 just handled that range with much more clarity than the S1500.

My crossover is now set at 60.

[Beave]

I played around with the crossover some more from my previous 90 Hz setting.

I had a track that played a lot of notes in quick succession in the 60-80 Hz range (K.A.R.D. - Don't Recall). It was revealing. The S2 just handled that range with much more clarity than the S1500.

My crossover is now set at 60.

I'm surprised by this.

But then again, that entire region is very dependent on room acoustics and speaker and subwoofer placement within the room. Your subwoofer may not be in a good spot.

[Roen]

I'm surprised by this.

But then again, that entire region is very dependent on room acoustics and speaker and subwoofer placement within the room. Your subwoofer may not be in a good spot.

I did a sub crawl and that's where I ended up putting the sub.

For music 60 Hz is preferred, as the sub gets a bit boomy during music, nor does it decay as quickly as the S2. I can't get the hot bass I like without the boom unless I lower the crossover. I could possibly dial down the gain and leave it at 80, but then I lose the rumble.

For movies, 80 Hz is preferred, the extra boom and the persistence of those frequencies make explosions and action feel like they're assaulting the walls of the room. See GoT S07E04, last battle scenes.

[Roen]

I'm surprised by this.

But then again, that entire region is very dependent on room acoustics and speaker and subwoofer placement within the room. Your subwoofer may not be in a good spot.

Now that I have the F15HP-SE, the difference in sub accuracy is noticeable. I can easily cross this sub at 80 Hz, where I was struggling to with the S1500. I'm very happy with the switch, even if it did cost me almost 50% more!

The K.A.R.D. - Don't Recall test showed much more control, with less boominess in the 61-80 Hz range, as the notes flow smoothly in quick succession.

[N Boros]

Now that I have the F15HP-SE, the difference in sub accuracy is noticeable. I can easily cross this sub at 80 Hz, where I was struggling to with the S1500. I'm very happy with the switch, even if it did cost me almost 50% more!

The K.A.R.D. - Don't Recall test showed much more control, with less boominess in the 61-80 Hz range, as the notes flow smoothly in quick succession.

That is great, that you can hear the difference between the two. Is there a noticeable difference in output capabilities between the S1500 and the F15HP, when watching movies?

[Roen]

That is great, that you can hear the difference between the two. Is there a noticeable difference in output capabilities between the S1500 and the F15HP, when watching movies?

To my untrained ear, I would say there are ranges where both outperform the other when volume matched by ear without a meter, but the F15HP is usually more apparent throughout the range AND runs at a lower gain / volume than the S1500.

[diesel79]

I’ve got my 2’s crossed at 90hz and it sounds seemless with my JL e112. No localization at all.

[tknice]

For around $100 you can get a Umik-1 and if you can get a computer or laptop in the room, pair it up with REW (Room EQ Wizard) which is free. Using these tools and a bit of reading, you'll be taking frequency response and waterfall graphs of your room in no time. Ears are always a great test, but I find that running test tone sweeps and seeing EXACTLY how the different crossover frequency settings integrate the S2s with the subs is what you want.

Had mine at 60hz for a long time until I eventually did this. Turns out 90hz with Dynamic EQ Off and MultEQ XT32 Flat was the magical setting for the flattest freq response.

Cheers!