Am I crazy?

[kingcrowing]

After waiting for months I finally got my Sierra Towers (NrT) and Sierra-1 Center (NrT). I had a set of B0se 601 Series II towers, then on a whim picked up a pair of Paradigm Monitor 3 v3 Bookshelves off craigslist locally for $100 along with stands and a matching Paradigm PDR-10 v3 10" Sub, I couldn't believe how much better the bookshelves sounded than my old towers, they really blew me away - I couldn't wait for my towers to come!

Now I've got these towers up and I don't really know that I can say they sound $2000 better than those old bookshelves... I feel like on some of my records the Bass is almost a bit too much, and after a day of listening to records I've got quite noticeable ear fatigue from these. I know many people said to go RAAL but that was just out of my budget.

I'm going to keep trying these out, I assume my ears may just need some time to adjust. But as good as they are I'm not instantly sold at all.

Finally, last night I did watch Dr. Strange on Netflix and was blow away by how good it sounded on these speakers, it really felt like I was at a theater, the sound effects were just really amazing. That said, I felt like I was constantly changing the volume because while the effects and music sounded good, I couldn't hear the dialogue and just had to keep going back and forth, even increasing the volume on the center channel a decent amount didn't fix this.

[monkuboy]

Are you using any equalization processes like Audyssey?

[kingcrowing]

I've mainly been listening using "Pure Direct" mode on my Pioneer VSX-30 Elite, but it also has MCACC and I ran that but it didn't sound better to me afterwards.

[sludgeogre]

Did you re-run Audyssey after connecting your new speakers? It may need some new distance/level parameters to dial it in better. Even if the speakers are in the same spot as your old ones they may measure differently, it's pretty weird.

I think part of it is ear break in. Took me a while to wrap my head around what I was hearing from my towers and Horizon. Everything is so much more accurate that it will alert you to tracks that are poorly mastered, even movies that have crappy mixing/mastering.

A lot of people say they don't hear cost difference at first with high end speakers. To me, this is because with a pair of speakers like the Sierra, the improvements you get in the time domain especially are hard for a person to notice/get used to at first because of what your brain expects from speakers. It's really hard for your brain to combine what it expects to hear with what you actually hear. I was really weirded out by it for at least a month and now I just enjoy the hell out of my speakers all the time.

[Beave]

Describe your room size and placement of the speakers in the room. Also describe furnishings. Post a pic if you can.

Your issue with movies is a pretty common complaint, actually, regardless of the speakers. Your Pioneer might have some sort of dynamic range compression that could help with the dramatically varying volume levels.

As for the dialogue intelligibility, the Sierra-1 center is significantly lower sensitivity than the towers (ie, it's not as loud for a given volume setting from your receiver). So your MCACC should recognize that and compensate by increasing the gain to the center channel by a few dB. If it doesn't do so, you may have to do it manually. That will bring up the dialogue levels from the center to be more relative to the sound effects coming from the towers.

[davef]

Hi kingcrowning


After waiting for months I finally got my Sierra Towers (NrT) and Sierra-1 Center (NrT). I had a set of B0se 601 Series II towers, then on a whim picked up a pair of Paradigm Monitor 3 v3 Bookshelves off craigslist locally for $100 along with stands and a matching Paradigm PDR-10 v3 10" Sub, I couldn't believe how much better the bookshelves sounded than my old towers, they really blew me away - I couldn't wait for my towers to come!

Now I've got these towers up and I don't really know that I can say they sound $2000 better than those old bookshelves... I feel like on some of my records the Bass is almost a bit too much, and after a day of listening to records I've got quite noticeable ear fatigue from these. I know many people said to go RAAL but that was just out of my budget.

I'm going to keep trying these out, I assume my ears may just need some time to adjust. But as good as they are I'm not instantly sold at all.

Finally, last night I did watch Dr. Strange on Netflix and was blow away by how good it sounded on these speakers, it really felt like I was at a theater, the sound effects were just really amazing. That said, I felt like I was constantly changing the volume because while the effects and music sounded good, I couldn't hear the dialogue and just had to keep going back and forth, even increasing the volume on the center channel a decent amount didn't fix this.

Since movies sound great but music does not, you really need to look at your source material or various receiver settings. Speakers simply reproduce what they are being sent, and with speakers like our Sierra series - they reproduce nearly everything in the source and the electronics (all the good and all the bad) Even within the Paradigm line, as you move up the line, the more revealing and detailed the speakers become.


I feel like on some of my records the Bass is almost a bit too much, and after a day of listening to records I've got quite noticeable ear fatigue from these. I know many people said to go RAAL but that was just out of my budget.

You mention too much bass... but you also state you are using a subwoofer. Bass should be handled by the subwoofer. What crossover setting are you using in the receiver? The speakers should not be set to large, they should be set to small and I generally recommend setting a crossover of 60-80Hz. If you set the speakers to large, you will get double bass -- with the speakers and sub producing the same frequencies and this is bad.

Keep in mind you will need to adjust subwoofer volume levels to where you are comfortable.

Also, with music - what is your source material? (CD's, digital files, streaming etc.) You mention records, but are you actually listening to vinyl?


I felt like I was constantly changing the volume because while the effects and music sounded good, I couldn't hear the dialogue and just had to keep going back and forth, even increasing the volume on the center channel a decent amount didn't fix this

Yes, this is a common issue with many soundtracks these days as there is just no standard as to how to set the various levels. This is not a speaker issue - the speakers are just doing what is as expected of them. I have found many movies streamed from Netflix to sound horrible for some reason. That said, there are settings in modern AVR's to help improve this. Night mode (or similar) sets up dynamic compression such that it limits the volume level of various peaks, thus making subtleties in the soundtrack much easier to hear.

Also, did you properly calibrate the center channel level to match the left/right speakers? The Sierra-1 center has much lower sensitivity than the towers and that will need to be compensated for...

Please feel free to contact me directly

[kingcrowing]

I did re-run it with the new speakers, I actually always used pure direct with my old speakers so I just ran it for the first time with the new Sierras so I'm pretty sure it's setup fairly correct.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I've got a month to test them out so I'll definelty keep trying them out before making a decision because I have heard that it can take a while to adjust to better speakers, and these are by far the best speakers I've ever owned or listened too. I'm just wondering if they're maybe "too much" for my space or something.

With the issue of dialogue being too low compared to the music/effects, is the only way to correct that by increasing the center channel volume? It seemed to make the dialogue even in Dr. Strange (which being a new big budget movie I assume the audio tracks are solid) sound kind of strained... when I had it loud enough for the dialogue to sound good the music was so loud I felt like the floor was shaking! Which while cool is too much for where I live.

[kingcrowing]

Dave to answer your questions:

I have all my speakers set to small, and my crossover set to 80hz, I felt like there was too much bass when running in pure direct so no sub at all! The album in question was Junta by Phish on vinyl in mint condition.

My source for music is vinyl records, I've got a Shure SC35C cartridge with N35X stylus, on a Pioneer PLX-1000, using a cork mat. I'm using Blue Jeans Cables and a Bugle2 phono preamp. With my other speakers it sounds great... I'm also using blue jeans speaker cables with their sonically welded banana plugs.

For movies I'm currently using Netflix, so I'm not going to give any full judgement until I can listen to DVDs or Blu rays (I have an Xbox One S, but I had to send it in for repairs so I can't try out dvds or blu rays until it gets back)

I added about 4-5db to the center channel, and the dialogue from the center was still quite low - is that a fair number?

I just want to be clear that these do sound amazing! I'm just trying to get them calibrated as well as possible.

I can post some pictures of my layout tomorrow. Unfortunately I don't have a great room layout, I've got them in a corner and about 6-8" away from the wall, but it's the only spot I can have them. I do have a hardwood floor and windows mear by. I tried pulling curtains down and putting a yoga mat on the hardwood floor but it didn't make a very noticeable difference.

[davef]

With the issue of dialogue being too low compared to the music/effects, is the only way to correct that by increasing the center channel volume? It seemed to make the dialogue even in Dr. Strange (which being a new big budget movie I assume the audio tracks are solid) sound kind of strained... when I had it loud enough for the dialogue to sound good the music was so loud I felt like the floor was shaking! Which while cool is too much for where I live.

What Beave and I are trying to explain is that there might be a setting in your receiver that enables dynamic compression. Your receiver has both dynamic range control and a midnight control. I suggest you check your owner's manual on how to best configure these. However, I must stress that every movie is different -- some are mixed perfectly, others are not. So you may or may not want to enable these options, depending on the movie. When listening in my home, I generally prefer a small amount of dynamic compression.

Please answer the following questions for me:

1. What is your source for your music listening?

2. Are you running the speakers as "large" or "small". MCACC Room EQ is horrible, do not trust the settings it chooses.

3. How far back are you sitting from the front speakers?

[davef]

Dave to answer your questions:

I have all my speakers set to small, and my crossover set to 80hz, I felt like there was too much bass when running in pure direct so no sub at all! The album in question was Junta by Phish on vinyl in mint condition.

My source for music is vinyl records, I've got a Shure SC35C cartridge with N35X stylus, on a Pioneer PLX-1000, using a cork mat. I'm using Blue Jeans Cables and a Bugle2 phono preamp. With my other speakers it sounds great... I'm also using blue jeans speaker cables with their sonically welded banana plugs.

For movies I'm currently using Netflix, so I'm not going to give any full judgement until I can listen to DVDs or Blu rays (I have an Xbox One S, but I had to send it in for repairs so I can't try out dvds or blu rays until it gets back)

I added about 4-5db to the center channel, and the dialogue from the center was still quite low - is that a fair number?

I just want to be clear that these do sound amazing! I'm just trying to get them calibrated as well as possible.

I can post some pictures of my layout tomorrow. Unfortunately I don't have a great room layout, I've got them in a corner and about 6-8" away from the wall, but it's the only spot I can have them. I do have a hardwood floor and windows mear by. I tried pulling curtains down and putting a yoga mat on the hardwood floor but it didn't make a very noticeable difference.

Thanks for getting back to me.

Vinyl is full of various distortions (lows and highs), and with a speaker like the Sierra Towers, you are going to hear it. I would recommend listening to some high quality sources with music (CD's / DVD's etc.) You have taken a major step upward with your speakers and you need to feed them the food they deserve :)

[kingcrowing]

I didn't see that until after, I'm going to look into the midnight type settings and try that out! I'll also be trying more videos, I really started this thread to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious - so maybe that'll do the trick or it could just be a poorly mixed soundtrack!

1) My source for music is vinyl records, I've got a Shure SC35C cartridge with N35X stylus, on a Pioneer PLX-1000, using a cork mat. I'm using Blue Jeans Cables and a Bugle2 phono preamp. With my other speakers it sounds great... I'm also using blue jeans speaker cables with their sonically welded banana plugs.

2) I'm running all speakers as large. I've tried with MCACC but it didn't really sound better to me, I prefer running in "pure direct" mode which according to the manual adds the least amount of signal processing.

3) I'm sitting roughly 10" back, the speakers are as far apart as possible for my room without being against the walls, which is anout 8-9" apart.

[kingcrowing]

I've got a small pile of DVD-Audios (Steely Dan, Donald Fagan, Chicago, and a few others!) but I can't test them out until I get my Xbox back from repairs!

[davef]

I didn't see that until after, I'm going to look into the midnight type settings and try that out! I'll also be trying more videos, I really started this thread to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious - so maybe that'll do the trick or it could just be a poorly mixed soundtrack!

1) My source for music is vinyl records, I've got a Shure SC35C cartridge with N35X stylus, on a Pioneer PLX-1000, using a cork mat. I'm using Blue Jeans Cables and a Bugle2 phono preamp. With my other speakers it sounds great... I'm also using blue jeans speaker cables with their sonically welded banana plugs.

2) I'm running all speakers as large. I've tried with MCACC but it didn't really sound better to me, I prefer running in "pure direct" mode which according to the manual adds the least amount of signal processing.

3) I'm sitting roughly 10" back, the speakers are as far apart as possible for my room without being against the walls, which is anout 8-9" apart.

I would recommend picking up an spl meter and properly calibrating the speaker and subwoofer levels. You should also be setting the speakers to "small" - with an 80Hz crossover setting. You can also try setting the crossover lower, to whatever setting sounds best to you. You do not want your subwoofer and the speakers to reproducing the same frequencies.

You can use MCACC to set the speaker levels, and then turn off the eq functions and manually set the speaker size and crossover. This way you get the benefits of proper level calibration, without using room EQ.

- Are you also using pure direct mode with movies? I believe this would fully defeat the center channel and subwoofer but it really depends on the receiver.

[mikesiskav]

Regarding dialogue volume vs special effects volume, that is fairly common. What you are experiencing is dynamic range and it is not necessarily a bad thing. A movie or CD is supposed to accurately recreate the sounds and visuals of the real thing. A grenade exploding would obviously be many times louder than a typical conversation. It wouldn't be very realistic if an explosion was only a little louder than the dialog. The lack of dynamic range is actually a pretty common problem in a lot of music these days. Wide dynamic range is a good thing.

Now that being said, if you have neighbors or people sleeping in your house, then I can understand how this could be a problem. In that case, you can look into your receiver, as already mentioned, for the dynamic range compression options like "midnight mode."

Also, as already mentioned, some movies just have poorly recorded dialog and sometimes actors will mumble their lines. Even turning up the volume doesn't help in these cases.

[kingcrowing]

Dave, with pure direct for my receiver if plays what it's sent - so with a record it's stereo, with a 5.1 track on Netflix or a DVD/blu Ray it plays 5.1, with a CD or stereo movie/Netflix track it plays stereo.

I'm definelty going to look into midnight mode tomorrow when I've got some free time. I do live in an apartment so while at times I can be loud I like to be somewhat reasonable! As I said - when I had it loud enough to hear the dialogue clearly the soundscapes and effects were BY FAR the best I've ever heard in a home theater setup, it almost sounded better than real life if that's possible (honestly check out Dr. Strange just for the Trippy soundscapes), it just way too loud for normal listening levels, and I sadly don't think I'll have a home theater room where I can play at that level any time soon.

[Mose Harper]

I didn't see that until after, I'm going to look into the midnight type settings and try that out! I'll also be trying more videos, I really started this thread to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious - so maybe that'll do the trick or it could just be a poorly mixed soundtrack!


This is the big problem with stepping up to really nice speakers. Your eyes (ears) are opened to just how poorly mixed and mastered so much of the content out there really is.

[kingcrowing]

I guess the reality is I'm going to listen to old records, live recordings, sitcoms, YouTube videos etc. so while I love really well recorded stuff that's by far not all I'm listening too - could it be that these are just too revealing for much of the stuff I'll be listening to?? I never thought this could be an issue!

[mikesiskav]

I guess the reality is I'm going to listen to old records, live recordings, sitcoms, YouTube videos etc. so while I love really well recorded stuff that's by far not all I'm listening too - could it be that these are just too revealing for much of the stuff I'll be listening to?? I never thought this could be an issue!

I watch a lot of Youtube and Netflix on my Sierra-2's and although you can tell the quality is not great, overall it still sounds pretty good. It sounds to me like your room is causing some issues. You said the bass is overwhelming and you ears were getting fatigued. I'd recommend playing with the bass and treble controls on your receiver to see if it helps. How far are the speakers from the walls? If you bring them further into the room, that may help tame the bass.

[kingcrowing]

"Still sounds pretty good" isn't what I want from $2000 speakers! Maybe I'm just over analyzing this but I feel like playing with bass and treble shouldn't need to be done on high end speakers, I feel like you should only need to do that to compensate for bad speakers, which these aren't!

They're about 6-8" away from the walls which is about all I can do.

[kingcrowing]

Here is my setup, as you can see I don't have much room for placement options, I can't really move it to the right at all, and can't pull it forward that much because there needs to be room to get in from the door. The armchair on the left is about 10' from the setup for reference. http://i.imgur.com/h0j67Qu.jpg

[mikesiskav]

"Still sounds pretty good" isn't what I want from $2000 speakers! Maybe I'm just over analyzing this but I feel like playing with bass and treble shouldn't need to be done on high end speakers, I feel like you should only need to do that to compensate for bad speakers, which these aren't!

They're about 6-8" away from the walls which is about all I can do.

You would be compensating for your poor room acoustics and your poor placement, not the speakers. And do you really expect the speakers to sound amazing when listening to low quality sources??? That isn't going to happen. Garbage in, garbage out.

Edit: Just to clarify, my Sierra-2's "still sound pretty good" when listening to low quality sources. When listening to high quality sources (well recorded, uncompressed music) it sounds Amazing. Literally, the best sound I've ever had in my living room.

The room also has a huge effect on the sound. Even with proper placement (speakers 2-3 feet from any walls) and several acoustic panels, I still need EQ (Dirac) to get the best sound out of my system.

[kingcrowing]

Ok I Just A/B'd the Sierra Towers and my Paradigm Bookshelves I'm listening at -37db on my receiver for both speakers in "Pure Direct" more which I realize is unscientific but I'd say this is a normal listening level for me.

Starting with Golden Age by Beck off Sea Change (320Kbps MP3)

The Sierras go much lower, very punch on the drums and bass, and go much higher. The high guitar strings and cymbals are crisper and clearer. The word tinny comes to mind but not in a harsh way, it's like I'm hearing the metal of the cymbal more clearly. These are definitely showing more of the musical spectrum. But even after one song I'm getting a bit of fatigue...

Now playing To Change by Smalltalker of the Wall Talk EP (320kbps MP3). Amazing Album by the way.

Instantly I can hear more in the vocals, I can hear the breath/spit into the mic, the bass guitar is smoother and more pronounced, I feel like the decay on the speakers (I think this is the Time Domain?) is way better on the sierras, it's like each beat is a fast punch to the ears whereas with the Paradigms it's like a slow friendly punch on the shoulder. The bassline really sings but again I'm getting that fatigue after just one song.

Next up, I Could Have Been Your Girl by She & Him from The Capitol Studio Sessions (320kbps MP3)

I feel like Zooeys vocals are smoother on the paradigms and much sharper on the sierras, I'd give the edge to the paradgims! Now the sierras I can hear the individual strings being plucked on the rhythm guitar, whereas on the paradigms I kind of just hear it as a single strum. Very cool to get that level of detail, that's certainly where these sierras are shining.

Next: The Numbers by Radiohead off A Moon Shaped Pool (320kbps MP3)

I hear some laughing type effect I didn't hear on the paradigms, the piano and chimes have more sparkle, Thom's voice sounds crisper (I think of the saying that "a veil was removed" from his voice). Again I'm feeling too much bass, this isn't a super bass heavy song but it feels too powerful.

This was close enough though that I needed to go back to the paradigms, I have to say, at the end the Paradigms made me smile more..

Final song, and this is an important one for me: Stealing Time From the Faulty Plan Live 6/1/16 @ SPAC by Phish (302kbps VBR MP3, this is a direct download from LivePhish.com where I get a lot of my music, and I was at this show).

Mike's bassline is way clearer, the cymbals feel like they're in the room, and Trey's vocals are much clearer, and I again feel like I can hear him breahting in the mic... but this is the first song I almost instantly want to turn down, again I wouldn't say I'm listening to these loud at all but the both the highs and the lows just sound aggressive to my ears. I'm really hearing the "sparkle" of the cymbals to a point that's uncomfortable to my ears. When the song ended the quiet was refreshing to my ears.

So this is all good quality music representing a lot of what I regularly listen to, I can 100% tell the Sierras are better speakers, they're playing a much wider range with more clarity, and letting me hear things I couldn't hear before... but these are the most expensive things I've ever bought after a car and the fact that I'm on the fence between these bookshelves makes me think that the law of diminishing returns has hit me here.

Any recommendations on where to go from here?

[kingcrowing]

You would be compensating for your poor room acoustics and your poor placement, not the speakers. And do you really expect the speakers to sound amazing when listening to low quality sources??? That isn't going to happen. Garbage in, garbage out.

Edit: Just to clarify, my Sierra-2's "still sound pretty good" when listening to low quality sources. When listening to high quality sources (well recorded, uncompressed music) it sounds Amazing. Literally, the best sound I've ever had in my living room.

The room also has a huge effect on the sound. Even with proper placement (speakers 2-3 feet from any walls) and several acoustic panels, I still need EQ (Dirac) to get the best sound out of my system.

That's all fair, I guess what I'm saying is I didn't know I was giving garbage sources before. I've always loved listening to vinyl, it's a big hobby of mine and I've been listening to it and collecting it for most of my life, the upgrades I've done to my turntable, phono stage and even cables have made a difference, so I naturally assumed better speakers would help even more! But I think these may be too good! I don't want to stop listening to and collecting vinyl because it doesn't sound as good anymore and just listen to super high quality digital music.

I'm honestly feeling like I got in over my head with these right now.

[kingcrowing]

I just tried out the "Midnight" mode on my receiver, and you can't use it while in either Direct, Pure Direct, or just using room correction via MCACC, you can only use it when you go into the different modes like "Movie", "Rock", or "Dolby Pro Logic"/"Dolby Pro Movie" etc.

[mikesiskav]

That's all fair, I guess what I'm saying is I didn't know I was giving garbage sources before. I've always loved listening to vinyl, it's a big hobby of mine and I've been listening to it and collecting it for most of my life, the upgrades I've done to my turntable, phono stage and even cables have made a difference, so I naturally assumed better speakers would help even more! But I think these may be too good! I don't want to stop listening to and collecting vinyl because it doesn't sound as good anymore and just listen to super high quality digital music.

I'm honestly feeling like I got in over my head with these right now.

I haven't listened to much vinyl, but I know there are lots of people with high end systems who do listen to vinyl, so it can't be all bad. Be careful with digital files as well. There's tons of digital files that sound really bad too, especially low bit rate MP3s.

My only recommendation to you would be to try adjusting the placement of the speakers. Even if it's only temporary experiment, it might be worthwhile to see if it makes any difference. If you're up to the task, just try moving the speakers forward a couple feet and to the right about a 1-2 feet. Walls reinforce bass, so this should reduce the excessive bass a little bit.

Also where is your subwoofer? Behind the left speaker? Try turning the volume down on the subwoofer, or completely off. You could also try running the speakers full range by setting the speakers to "large" in your receiver and subwoofer to "none."

[kingcrowing]

Ok, I'll try pulling them out a couple feet just to see if that makes a difference, unfortunately that would have to be for testing only since I can't keep that layout in my current space and don't want to have to move the speakers every time I use them...

My sub is behind the left tower, it's a down firing and that's the only place I can fit it. I do have all speakers set to "Large" and when listening to music I'm using "Pure Direct" mode on my receiver so it's only sending music to the L & R channels, no sub. That's only coming into play with 5.1 movies/tv. While that could be part of the huge dynamic range I'm seeing, I haven't changed the sub settings from my old speakers and I never had such a huge difference so I don't think that's the issue with movies,

[kingcrowing]

Ok, I've pulled them out 2' and I do feel like the bass is a bit smoother, but now I'm hearing more aggressive highs from the cymbals, I'm not sure if it's overall better or not, but either way I can't keep them here so I'm not totally sure what the point of trying this is?

Edit: ok, Dave said use the MCACC to adjust channel levels but not the built in EQ stuff since it's not always very good - I thought that was happening when in "Pure Direct" mode but that defeats channel adjustments, going into "Direct" bypasses all EQ stuff but does keep the channel levels - immediately made a huge difference going back to Dr. Strange, I feel much better already. I think I may be able to use this Direct mode to change the volume levels a bit and that will resolve my movie issues! I think I'm going to give my ears a rest and try music again in the afternoon and see if my ears will adjust with more listening.

[mikesiskav]

Just trying to show you how the room and placement can affect the sound. I rearranged my whole living room to improve my sound. My TV is now sitting in front of my window and my left speaker is blocking my fireplace. Do I care? Nope, because my system sounds amazing. But hey, it's your room and your equipment. It's up to you to decide what you are willing, or not willing to do to get good sound.

[kingcrowing]

You're right, it's good to try some different things! I think in my current setup the ideal placement would have my setup completely blocking my only windows and one speaker right next to my heater which I don't think is a compromise I can make now... All of the feedback has been very helpful though, as I'm going through settings and adjusting placement I think I can get this to work with some more tweaking.

[mikesiskav]

Well, good luck to you. I hope they can work out and that you will be happy with them. If it comes down to it, Ascend has a fair return policy. So it should not be a problem.

[Beave]

Looks like a VERY reflective, lively room to me. Bare floor, no carpeting, not even a rug. Bare walls, windows, no curtains.

Edit: Also, low ceiling parallel to floor. And two long parallel sidewalls.

Get a big blanket or comforter or sleeping bag (or several) and put them on the floor in between the speakers and listening position. Maybe hang some from side walls. See if you like the sound a little better that way.

[kingcrowing]

I think I have a sheepskin rug I could put right in that area I'll try that.

[r0nski2000]

I have to say, I think u are crazy - u know it is possible that even though u recognize the Sierra to be the better speakers, they simply don't work for your sources/environment/etc..

I don't want to derail your thread, but I absolutely have to say that some of the feedback u received simply rubs me the wrong way - u are a better man than me...

[kingcrowing]

I think you're right. They're better speakers but they just aren't working in my admittedly bad space. I've kept A/Bing and I think I've decided I just cannot justify the price difference (only because I got this $1000 pair of paradigms for $100).

[mikesiskav]

$1,000 pair of speakers for $100 is an incredible deal. It would be difficult for any speaker purchased at regular price to compete against that in a performance per dollar comparison.

[kingcrowing]

And it was actually a better deal than that, the speakers were just under $1000 for the pair, and it came with a matching $500 sub and speaker stands all for $100... I picked these up to put in my office but just swapped them in my main setup before the Sierra Towers came and was blown away thinking they would just be a small step up from normal computer speakers, I had no idea they would be some much better than my old B0se towers.

I think if I get a dedicated listening room in my next place (looking to buy a home in the next couple years) I think I would love these speakers but I think they're too much for my bad space.

[crazycuz2k]

Just a couple of my observations.

1. When watching movies, you definitely want to use MCACC, or better yet an SPL meter so that all your speaker channels are at the same level. That's probably why when watching movies you're messing with the volume for center channel dialog. Also make sure that the center channel's tweeter is pointed ear level at the primary listening position. Make sure that the source material is being bitstreamed to the receiver so you're getting the multichannel track and that your reciever is processing that signal correctly. The Dolby Digital/True HD/DTS/Master HD should light up. If it's netflix the Dolby Digital +

2. For 2 channel listening, you're room seems to be poor for optimal acoustic performance. If you think bass is too much, then installing bass traps in the corners of the room. You can try using REW and manually calibrate the EQ as well, but you'll need a decent USB mic. The other thing is, the Paradigm Monitor 3 v3's are awesome speakers. Well worth the $100 you paid, and if new would cost $700-$800 a pair. Their neutral, efficient, have great extension for their size. You're really only missing the low end which is boosted in your listening room. So yeah, based on your room and listening preferences, for 2 channel listening, are the Sierra Tower's sounding 2000% better than the Paradigm's at $100, probably not, but do they sound 2 - 2.5x better at the $700 msrp, if you don't have a subwoofer. Probably. The last point is, yes there are diminishing returns to audio, but once you've heard better speakers, you'll miss that additional 10%-20%. That's been my experience anyways... I can always move forward and ignorance is bliss... but once I've heard better quality audio for a period of time, it's hard to go backwards.

[DWG]

A few points to ponder (based on more years of critical listening than I care to admit).

1. While reviews, awards, and other peoples opinion are nice, TRUST YOUR EARS! You have to live with these and Dave provides a very nice evaluation period and return policy.

2. The original post was two weeks ago today. I can't tell how much listening was done before the original post was made. In April I purchased a pair of Sierra 2s. At first I was a bit underwhelmed. Sometime between weeks 3-4 (averaging about ten hours of play a day - I wasn't always in the room) I feel these finally really broke in and their true potential shone through. Interesting enough at the end of the trial period was over I told Dave I liked the speakers, but for my listening room and musical tastes I needed the fuller bottom end the Towers provide. Dave told me that the Towers would not be available until July and allowed me to keep the Sierra 2s until I can take delivery on the Tower. I have absolutely fallen in love with the Sierra 2s and they are not going back. I'm still picking up the Towers when they become available again. Once again, I suggest holding judgement until you put a solid 150-200 hours on these.

3. Synergy. As sound reproduction is a chain of events the quality of sound may be limited by the weakest link. Keep in mind the room is the last link in the chain and there have been several comments about this ahead of mine. Please don't discount this however. I tried various electronics (solid state, tube, integrated, separates) with the Sierra 2s and got mixed results, so not every combination of components works. I recently found a deal on some solid state separates (class D amp no less) that perform so well that I am left speechless.

Audio nirvana is a journey. The path is different for each of us. Trial and error is inevitable. Discovery is a great part of this journey. Most of all trust your ears. The only golden ears that matter are yours.

Good luck with your journey.

[kingcrowing]

Thank you both for the advice! I've tried 4 different speakers and the $100 Paradigms just sound right to my ears, if I had the space (and the budget...) to keep the towers I totally would but I honestly am totally surprised that these bookshelves do it for me! I found the matching center online for just over $100 and the bookshelves came with a matching 10" sub. So in my small room for just over $200 I can't believe how good they're working.

As you said its your ears that matter and while the towers do sound better, they don't sound better in my place with my equipment.

[DWG]

Besides being a new owner of Ascend speakers, I own a pair of Zu Audio speakers and it seems that guys seem to either really love or really hate the sound of these - no middle ground. There is no absolute best sounding speaker (or any other component) for all people, if there was there would only be one manufacturer at each price point and we would have a boring hobby. I think you're really lucky to found something at $100 meets your needs and satisfies you. If you decide to return these, use the extra money and go buy some music - that's what all this is about anyway. Over time your tastes and needs will change and I'm sure Ascend will be here to offer what i consider to be very high value products.

By the way, we're audiophiles. We're all crazy. Good luck.

[kingcrowing]

Ha! I actually ordered a pair of Zu Omens before I ordered the Sierra Towers! They weren't for me either, but I thought they were great speakers they just didn't work for my ears, that's just how it goes though! Everything seems very subjective with audio stuff.