AVR alternatives to marantz 5009?

[Blingleberry]

Any recommendations for an AV receiver for upgrades to a Marantz 5009? Pref an all in one unit for cost and simplicity's sake.

I struggle with Audessy results and the various surround modes to get the sound I like. For example if you use the audessy settings you can't change the graphic EQ. So the audessey results might be 80% of what I want but maybe I want to tweak the treb in the center and can't.

I'd also like to be able to save multiple preset sound settings which it doesn't support. So if I change a setting it can affect all modes. I'd like to be able to switch between nighttime and daytime settings or news vs movie preferences.

For music, generally I'm pretty happy with pure direct mode, which sounds much better than the processed music modes.

This will probably take a while to settle on something but I might as well start looking. Budget prob < 1750 I think.

My setup: Sierra 2 LRC, Rythmik F12, Orb surrounds, Rega 2, Cambridge pre, NAD CD, apple tv, pioneer plasma.

Thx!

[Mag_Neato]

You can check/view the EQ settings which Audyssey applies after setup, but you are correct that you cannot alter them WITHIN THE AUDYSSEY MODE. So, What I have tried in the past was to take a screen shot of the Audyssey settings and duplicate them in your own EQ setup. Once you have that, you can then play around with different settings.

As for remembering input-specific modes, etc. you may be better served with a Denon model.

[sludgeogre]

If you want to do that much customization to your room correction/EQ you're going to need a Dirac or Anthem enabled system. They are really expensive. Anthem's most affordable receiver, which is 5.2, is $1,399.

http://www.anthemav.com/products-current/type=av-receiver/model=mrx-520/page=overview

The cheapest Dirac receiver is a few grand I think, but that is rumored to change as people are talking about Pioneer partnering with Dirac.

[Blingleberry]

Thx. I really don't want to do that much. Ideally I'd like to set and forget! And with direct mode working well for music, I don't think the space requires a lot of correction. Usually I turn audesesy off but I often keep trying it to see if I can get better movie sound performance. And usually it's the dialog that's a problem. That's one of the reasons I upgraded to the sierra 2's. But the modes just seem to suck.

I had a crap yamaha soundbar once that had really good settings for stuff like watching news or late night mode, and it worked great. It has a setting that basically gave me the compressed mono quality of a single 6" tv speaker so I could watch the news.

anyway I'm pretty sure that when I use audyessey, it disables the graphic EQ choice afterwards. I'll double check but I find myself in the menus all the time tweaking stuff. And what works in one situation might not work on something else so the lack of personal settings is a PIA.

I'll look at Anthem. Emotiva has been mentioned in the past too.



Thx

[enricoclaudio]

All 2016 Marantz and Denon models are Audyssey New Smartphone app ready/enable.

"As Audyssey Pro is phased out, this app will provide many of the same features in an easier to use fashion, making it accessible to consumers as well as custom installers. The app will guide the user through the Audyssey calibration, using the included Audyssey microphone for auto-calibration. The app will also allow the user to check correction results, set target sound options, adjust frequency roll-off, set mid-range compensation controls and save/load/view/print results"

The New Audyssey Smartphone app will be available for purchase ($20) by the end of 2016. In your case I would go with the Marantz 6011 which have Audyssey XT32.

[Blingleberry]

Hmm upgrading the marantz to another marantz wouldnt be the worst thing, in general I like it but I'm skeptical.

Is the audessey xt32 a big improvement over the silver in the 5009?

What's the difference between the 6011 and the 7010? They seem almost the same.

Thx!

[enricoclaudio]

Audyssey XT32 is a HUGE upgrade over Audyssey XT for both, speakers and subwoofers. Also, not only you get XT32, you also get SubEQ HT which set independent distance and level for two subwoofers then EQ them together. This is very helpful when you run dual subwoofers and they are at different distance from MLP. The 7010 is a very good receiver as well but it's not Audyssey Smatphone app enable. Only 2016 models from Marantz and Denon are Audyssey Smartphone app ready. The Audyssey Smartphone app allows to make changes to Audyssey results, that's why I'm recommending it.

[Blingleberry]

Got you. Thx

I need to look into whether it can handle my audio presets idea. I really would like a low-fi setting for just watching the news among others. Unfortunately my TV doesn't have an internal speaker otherwise that would work for that.

I see you're with Rythmik, I doubt I'll ever get a second sub. Carrying the F12 up 5 flights of stairs was enough for me ;-) Also it already sounds great for the smallish room.

[Blingleberry]

Any idea what the differences are between the 6011 and the 7011 that justifies such a big price jump? On the prod comparison tool on crutchfield they seem very close.

I wonder if I can find a place that would do a trade in for the 5009 or should I just sell it on my own if I go that route.

Thx

[enricoclaudio]

The 7011 has 125w per channel and the 6011 has 110w per channel. Both receivers have 9 internal amps and can process up to 11.1 channels. The 7011 has dual LCD screens (blue ring + large LCD screen behind the door) and finally the 7011 comes with HEOS module while the 6011 not. Last year the 6010 did not come with Audyssey XT32 so the difference between models was bigger. This year I think the 6011 is a best bang for the buck deal.

[Mag_Neato]

I thought another difference between the two was where they were made, the 60xx models being made in China and the 70xx series in Japan?

[Mag_Neato]

As far as trading your 5009 in towards a new model, I found this site:
http://www.overtureav.com/shop/marantz?_vsrefdom=oav_ppc&gclid=CPWesqDJstACFU9MDQodGvwM9Q

[enricoclaudio]

The last 70xx model made in Japan was the 7007. My 7008 is made in China. Currently, the only Marantz model made in Japan is the AV8802. Even the New AV7703 is made in China. BTW, I forgot to mention that the 7011 has dual HDMI main zone out + Zone 2 HDMI out. The 6011 has one HDMI Main out + Zone 2 HDMI out. In my case I need dual main zone HDMI out because I'm running a projector + LCD TV in main zone.

[Blingleberry]

Thx guys!

Any idea if the 6011 allows audio presets?

Being able to save a custom EQ curve, sub out setting, and compression would be hugely useful. As would being able to A/B old and new Audessey settings.

Thx

[Blingleberry]

Doesn't look like it handles presets. But the ipad app might let you switch to dif profiles. Not exactly convenient!

Any thoughts about the Emotiva XMC-1 instead?

Thx!

[curtis]

Any thoughts about the Emotiva XMC-1 instead?

Thx!
It's a pre/pro, so you will need an amp as well.
It's a nice unit...I think I'm getting one in the future.

[enricoclaudio]

Since 2013 all Denon and Marantz receivers allow to save/load settings in your computer via web browser. Just put your receiver IP address in your browser and the receiver menu will pop up. Save and recall settings take a bit more than a min so it's not useful for A/B testing.

[Blingleberry]

It's a pre/pro, so you will need an amp as well.
It's a nice unit...I think I'm getting one in the future.

Ahh, I wasn't sure about that. That makes it a bit out of budget.

Any other all in one receivers worth looking at?

[eyecatcher]

For that price point I would strongly recommend you check out the latest Anthem and Yamaha.

The latest Anthem ARC correction is at 96khz resolution now afaik and use 32bit AKM DAC's, doesn't perform any video processing and entry point is restricted in channels.
The top end Yamaha's use 64-bit DSP chips, YPAO is @ 96kHz resolution, and it uses 32bit Sabre DAC's and can now EQ down to 15.6 Hz just like the other competition.

Marantz/Denon Audyssey MultEQ XT32 operates @ 48kHz, so higher resolutions are output @ that maximum resolution when using Audyssey. They also incorporate 32bit AKM DACs in their premium models.

[Blingleberry]

Since 2013 all Denon and Marantz receivers allow to save/load settings in your computer via web browser. Just put your receiver IP address in your browser and the receiver menu will pop up. Save and recall settings take a bit more than a min so it's not useful for A/B testing.

Thx, so what I've realized is that if Audessey is on, I can not use the graphic EQ - it's disabled. But pushing up the high end has a big improvement for me.

So can I edit the audyssey settings and do the equivalent of tweaking up the high end?

[Mag_Neato]

Thx, so what I've realized is that if Audessey is on, I can not use the graphic EQ - it's disabled. But pushing up the high end has a big improvement for me.

So can I edit the audyssey settings and do the equivalent of tweaking up the high end?

I do not believe you can edit the settings nor use the EQ while in the Audyssey modes. What you can try to do is duplicate the audyssey applied EQ settings in the graphic EQ by creating your own custom setting and then tweak it there.

[Blingleberry]

I was wondering about that - how would I know the settings it makes? Is that apparent in the settings file itself?

Thx!!

[Mag_Neato]

I was wondering about that - how would I know the settings it makes? Is that apparent in the settings file itself?

Thx!!
I did a quick search and found this: http://manuals.marantz.com/SR5009/NA/EN/GFNFSYdgawypva.php

I viewed the Audeyssey results and copied them.

[MusicHead]

Thinking out of the box, why not go separates with Emotiva?

The new MC-700 pre-pro looks intriguing and they have plenty of multi-channel amps choices:

MC-700:
https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/mc-700?gclid=COy0s4X-9NACFceBfgodkB8ATQ

Amps:
https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/mc-700?gclid=COy0s4X-9NACFceBfgodkB8ATQ

The MC-700 does not have Audissey, but their Emo-Q is pretty good. I have their Fusion 8100 AVR which has an earlier version of it. There is the usual automatic room correction with the microphone, but you can tweak it manually afterward. The 8100 also has three completely independent sets of presets and of course a direct mode.

Not many details yet on the MC-700 Emo-Q, but I'd find hard to believe it is not as good or better then in the 8100.

With careful pairing of pre-pro and amps you would still be within your budget

[davef]

Thx, so what I've realized is that if Audessey is on, I can not use the graphic EQ - it's disabled. But pushing up the high end has a big improvement for me.

So can I edit the audyssey settings and do the equivalent of tweaking up the high end?

The default Audyssey EQ rolls off the top end. If you have the option for "Audyssey Flat" under the Audyssey settings, I recommend you give this a try.

[Blingleberry]

The idea of separates is interesting. I could pair a used amp with a new processor. I'd estimate amplifiers have not changed much over the years but the processors constantly do. An Emotiva 700 seems to go for around $300-400.

Thx

[Blingleberry]

Thinking out of the box, why not go separates with Emotiva?

The new MC-700 pre-pro looks intriguing and they have plenty of multi-channel amps choices:

MC-700:
https://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/mc-700?gclid=COy0s4X-9NACFceBfgodkB8ATQ


What are the differences between the Emotiva MC-700 and the XMC-1?

I'm still thinking this whole thing over. Mainly because I'm really enjoying the sierra-2s for music. Usually I use pure direct mode and have my F12 sub attached to the pre outs instead of the sub out. I can listen all day and settle right in. Sounds amazing for CD's and vinyl.

But for HT I'm still often frustrated by the Marantz. Sometimes it's hard to hear dialog or there's just poor balance of the surround sound. I've tweaked and messed with everything. So I decided I can up my budget to about $2.2K.

So emotiva, anthem, what else?

Tx!

[MusicHead]

Cambridge Audio, going back to the idea of a (beefy) AVR:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_779CXR200B/Cambridge-Audio-CXR200.html?tp=179

NAD used to have good stuff too, but they seems to have dropped the ball with AVRs. What they have left is still good power-wise, but way behind in other features, especially on the video side. Had their T-752 for many years and loved it.

[MusicHead]

What are the differences between the Emotiva MC-700 and the XMC-1?

You mean other than the almost 4x price difference? :-)

XMC-1 has Dirac Live, XLR in/out, more analog inputs, better DACs, more powerful DSP and most likely better components all around. And it is US-built.

[Blingleberry]

Thx! - the XMC-1 seem to popup used/refurbed for about 1400 every now and then. What would be a good (but modestly priced) 7 channel amp to use with it?

Do people often use more than one amp such as a higher end tube amp for their LR mains but then something else for the center and surrounds?

-Bill

[MusicHead]

Be aware that the first-gen XMC-1 had a HDMI board non DHCP and HDR compatible. Emotiva now sell a new version with an upgraded board or you can have older unit upgraded by Emotiva. Cannot do that on your own.

I have never owned or heard a system with one, but reviews and feedback by owners is overwhelmingly good.

Emotiva had many choices for 7-ch amps, just have a look at their website, Other good value alternatives are Outlaw, Monoprice and ATI.

Many people use a combination of separate amps for LR mains and the remaining channels, so, yes, nothing wrong with mix and match. A prevalent line of thought is that you want to have the L, R and C with the same type of amp and power and matched LCR speakers, to have a seamless audio "front". Not so critical if you care more about 2-ch music and HT is secondary.

[sludgeogre]

Be aware that the first-gen XMC-1 had a HDMI board non DHCP and HDR compatible. Emotiva now sell a new version with an upgraded board or you can have older unit upgraded by Emotiva. Cannot do that on your own.

You can upgrade the HDMI board by yourself, they said its like swapping a card in a PC, but the new Atmos board you can't do yourself, that one has to be sent in. You can still send it in for any of the upgrades if you don't want to do it yourself, but since I just bought a 1080p projector and have no interest in 4K or HDR, I doubt I'll be sending mine in for the upgrade any time soon.

[Blingleberry]

Thanks!

I've read about the add on board - some said it could be done without sending it in. I'm reasonably comfortable working inside electronic gizzards. But I might be confused because they seem to have sold more than one board upgrade.

>> The new 2.0b board is due for release late Q1 2017.
We will support self install if you are willing to accept liability for any screw ups...
It's not that complicated if you are mechanically competent and careful.<<

[MusicHead]

You can upgrade the HDMI board by yourself, they said its like swapping a card in a PC, but the new Atmos board you can't do yourself, that one has to be sent in. You can still send it in for any of the upgrades if you don't want to do it yourself, but since I just bought a 1080p projector and have no interest in 4K or HDR, I doubt I'll be sending mine in for the upgrade any time soon.

Ooops, sorry for the involuntary bit of misinformation. I must have mixed up the HDMI upgrade with the Atmos upgrade. Thanks for setting me straight! :o

[Blingleberry]

The HDMI board is for the encryption change or for 4K? Both's probably critical. But I don't think I care much about ATMOS though. Thx

[sludgeogre]

The HDMI board is for the encryption change or for 4K? Both's probably critical. But I don't think I care much about ATMOS though. Thx

The HDMI board is just for HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 support. It is already 2160/60 and 4k capable, has been since shortly after launch. It's just that the 1.4b ports were locked at 6 gbps instead of the 18 needed for 4k, and HDCP 2.2 support is needed for 4k players.

The Atmos upgrade board is a separate board. It replaces the board that has the Zone 2 outputs on it for the 4 Atmos channels. It hasn't been released yet, but is due out very soon.

[Blingleberry]

Thank you!