Funky audio chain issues, time to upgrade! (Towers)

[nball]

Howdy ya'll,

early adopter of the Sierra Towers here. I've listened to them all day long, every day, for the past 4 years and I'm loving life. They live in my at home office, well positioned and fed a daily diet of everything. I do mean that too. Everything from poorly recorded, highly compressed audio books and podcasts to 24 bit FLAC, with a solid 60-75% being ripped AIFF's and HD streaming from Spotify. My set up is a bit odd from a connectivity standpoint, thus this post.

Currently my audio chain looks like this:


iMac > Thunderbolt 2 optical cable > Thunderbolt 2 dock > HDMI cable > Onkyo TX-NR709 > Monoprice 10 ga. wire > Sierra Towers (piano black, of course)


The issue is two fold: :o


Mac and dock get confused about HDMI and my external monitor. I am told this is due to my use of both Thunderbolt and Display Port, where the iMac is driving the external monitor via Display Port and remaining I/O is the Thunderbolt dock. Mixing them (T2 + DP) mostly works but sometimes it fails in spectacular fashion. The Mac sees the HDMI connection to the AVR as a monitor and likes to decide, completely at random, that the other monitors do not exist. Super double plus un-fun when trying to work.
My buddy's Sierra-1 NrT's sound amazing driven by an older NAD integrated. Arguably better than my set up. I imagine the room has a lot to do with this but his is not obviously better than mine. To test this I am adding some replica oil paintings with rock wool behind them in various places in the near future. Our sources are effectively the same.



Get to the point dude! :mad:
After owning too many AVR's over the years, only a few being used for surround honestly, I am coming to grips with a more focused, long term approach. I've wasted enough money already. It's time to drive these beauties with something more dedicated.

What would you do? :cool:
Stereo integrated amp with external DAC (https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-nad-c-390dd-c390dd-direct-digital-amplifier-dac-with-manufacturer-s-warranty-free-s-2016-10-11-integrateds-01060-florence-ma)? An actual DAC>Pre>Amp chain? My budget is under $2,000 USD to solve this, with less being better within reason. I am a buy it for life kinda guy, AVR's not withstanding.

If this is in the wrong place or the wrong way to ask please let me know! I appreciate this community and don't seek to dilute it!

Big love,

nball

[sludgeogre]

I owned an Onkyo receiver a few years ago and I was not impressed by it either. I'm not a fan of any of their newer stuff, it's a lot of buzzwords that they pay licensing for and then whatever money is left over in the budget goes into the amps. If you want to get a receiver, go with one of the newer/higher model Marantz or Denon receivers, they sound pretty good.

If you don't plan on doing more than two channel it doesn't make sense to me to have a receiver, though. You get more value through regular two channel setups as you can focus your cash on your two channels. Schiit's new offerings that are coming out soon look incredibly attractive, especially since you aren't using a subwoofer either. I'd go with the new Saga preamp that is being released this month, it's only $349, and it has a passive and tube stage. Insane, crazy value there. No other product out there that can really compare to that for a price like that, IMO.

http://schiit.com/products/bifrost

http://schiit.com/news/news/schiit-previews-2-channel-line-at-rmaf

To go with that fantastic preamp I'd get a Schiit Bifrost Multibit. I own one and I absolutely love it, incredibly accurate, immense soundstage, deep dynamics, love everything about it. If you want to go a step further go with the Gungnir and the Freya preamp, but I'd be super happy with the Bifrost and Saga.

The last piece is the amp, and unfornuately Schiit's Vidar amp won't be ready until sometime in Q1 of 2017. It looks like it'll be a total beast, 100 W into 8 ohm and 200 into 4 ohm, rarely see ratings like that anymore on gear below many thousands of dollars. That being said, I love my Emotiva amps and they are a great value as well, or you could go with NAD. The Sierra Towers aren't hard to drive so as long as you go with a quality class A/B amp or maybe a quality NAD class D amp you should be good to go.

As for your HDMI issues, I've had problems with that when changing through video handshakes, which is when devices are making a connection with each other and verifying that there isn't any piracy going on. When you're going through more than one step they can hang up and get confused, leading to your hassles. I would probably just go to your new DAC through USB and send video through the dock. Keeping them separate can sometimes lessen the problems, as your computer shouldn't turn that sound device off when you connect via HDMI. I don't know about Macs, but this works in Windows 10, I just make sure the USB Schiit driver is defaulted and plugging stuff in and out doesn't mess with it.

[justthinking]

My buddy's Sierra-1 NrT's sound amazing driven by an older NAD integrated. Arguably better than my set up. I imagine the room has a lot to do with this but his is not obviously better than mine. To test this I am adding some replica oil paintings with rock wool behind them in various places in the near future. Our sources are effectively the same.



When you say replica oil paintings, do you mean oil painting printed on breathable fabric or do you mean actual oil painting?

If it is actual oil painting, then it will not do you any good as the sound most likely will not travel thru to the rock wool inside the frame

[nball]

Ouch, I hadn't considered that. The oil media would reflect sound like a hard surface wouldn't it? Dang. Maybe a tapestry then…

Just realized I did not answer your question. The paintings would be hand painted oil, not prints.

[nball]

You've given me a lot to consider here, thank you! The Schiit stuff has been on my radar but I didn't think to purpose them to the speakers for some reason. I am only using HDMI to pass audio up to the AVR for DAC purposes. With a USB DAC there's no need for HDMI at all, which is nice.

Bifrost -> Saga -> XPA Gen 3 could be a sweet set up. Heck at this rate I may want to upgrade the towers to the RAAL model while I am at it!

Would you consider the Emotiva XPA a good deal at $900 for a pair of towers or is that overkill? I could get a decent used NAD for half that.

[sludgeogre]

You've given me a lot to consider here, thank you! The Schiit stuff has been on my radar but I didn't think to purpose them to the speakers for some reason. I am only using HDMI to pass audio up to the AVR for DAC purposes. With a USB DAC there's no need for HDMI at all, which is nice.

Bifrost -> Saga -> XPA Gen 3 could be a sweet set up. Heck at this rate I may want to upgrade the towers to the RAAL model while I am at it!

Would you consider the Emotiva XPA a good deal at $900 for a pair of towers or is that overkill? I could get a decent used NAD for half that.

You're welcome! A lot of people don't consider Schiit since they were so desktop/headphone oriented in the past, but the advantages of multibit technology in two channel systems is amazing. Jason Stoddard, one of the co-founders of Schiit, has written about it a little bit in his blog on Head-Fi.

I don't think an XPA Gen 3 is overkill, but that's just me. I think the value of that amp is pretty staggering, but some people are critical of the "Class H" topology, I really don't know much about it, but my Gen 2 sounds great and if the Gen 3 is an improvement, I say go with it.

I have not heard an NAD amp before, so I can't really comment on that. I just know that the combination of Schiit and Emotiva is a monstrous value proposition. You just have to wait a week or two for Saga to appear on the website.

[Ascend0577]

Ouch, I hadn't considered that. The oil media would reflect sound like a hard surface wouldn't it? Dang. Maybe a tapestry then…

Just realized I did not answer your question. The paintings would be hand painted oil, not prints.

Nball,

GIK Acoustics has acoustic panels that can have different prints for aesthetics: http://http://www.gikacoustics.com/product-category/artpanels/.

Although I only have the standard Tri-Traps and a Monster Bass Trap in off-white, I hear significant improvements throughout the frequency range, in particular, from the midrange down to the expected bass frequencies.

Ascend0577

[shinny]

I'm running a current model Shiit Bifrost+Wyred4Sound 250wx2 amp+Odyssey Candela (tube) pre+ Ascend Towers NRT (new)=really, really nice combo. Next up Rythmic FV15HP (big room:).

[nball]

I'm running a current model Shiit Bifrost+Wyred4Sound 250wx2 amp+Odyssey Candela (tube) pre+ Ascend Towers NRT (new)=really, really nice combo. Next up Rythmic FV15HP (big room:).

That's an incredible investment to drive those towers! What kind of music do you listen to?

[shinny]

all kinds of music (new, older, acoustic, rock, classical, vocals) t.v. audio also, no center-- mostly higher bitrate Spotify from laptop. Schiit DAC nice addition to chain, particularly for the price.

[nball]

When you say replica oil paintings, do you mean oil painting printed on breathable fabric or do you mean actual oil painting?

If it is actual oil painting, then it will not do you any good as the sound most likely will not travel thru to the rock wool inside the frame

You've kicked off another post for me! Assess the next step: "beyond the towers …" :confused:

[Jaybeez]

Some good advice here. I started my room treatment with GIK bass traps, and they clearly know what they are doing. Personally, I'd spend less on electronics if it meant I could treat my listening space properly.

I also have a Schiit Bifrost with Multibit upgrade. Am streaming from an iMac with a long optical cable and the DAC has made a huge difference.

[nball]

LIFE IS GOOD.

I am now auditioning the Modi Multibit --> Modi Magni Über --> Nuprime STA-9 --> Sierra-2 (sans ceiling mounting, subs, and room treatments) and it sounds incredible. The high gain is not needed from the Magni at all. The amp is probably overpowered for my office. It will be interesting to see where/whether it ends up with the Emotiva on the way. My buddy may bring by an older Parasound for fun too. I will report in more detail as my understanding evolves.

Thank you everyone!

[sludgeogre]

LIFE IS GOOD.

I am now auditioning the Modi Multibit --> Modi Magni Über --> Nuprime STA-9 --> Sierra-2 (sans ceiling mounting, subs, and room treatments) and it sounds incredible. The high gain is not needed from the Magni at all. The amp is probably overpowered for my office. It will be interesting to see where/whether it ends up with the Emotiva on the way. My buddy may bring by an older Parasound for fun too. I will report in more detail as my understanding evolves.

Thank you everyone!

Nice, right on! Those Multibit DACs are truly amazing. Stoked to hear about how the STA-9 compares to the Emotiva amp.

Also, the gain adjustment on the Magni is only for the heaqdphone output, not for the preamp output. Try it with some headphones soon, though, it's an incredible amp. It'll make almost any headphones sound better it seems.