sierra 2's without subs?

[Blingleberry]

How do the sierra 2's sound without subs for music and HT? I think the towers might just be too big and pricey.

Thx

[Mag_Neato]

They do very well for a medium size bookshelf monitor, but a lot depends on other factors. How large is the room? How loudly do you generally listen? Do you like action movies with big baddabooms? Even some seemingly innocent non-action, drama type movies can have some deep content for atmospheric effect. A sub will help pressurize the room and create a more immersive sonic experience.

[curtis]

I'll add that even with the Towers, I would suggest a subwoofer, especially for HT.

[Blingleberry]

Thx!!


They do very well for a medium size bookshelf monitor, but a lot depends on other factors. How large is the room? How loudly do you generally listen? Do you like action movies with big baddabooms? Even some seemingly innocent non-action, drama type movies can have some deep content for atmospheric effect. A sub will help pressurize the room and create a more immersive sonic experience.

The room is ~18 x15 with one side open into the kitchen. I don't listen to music that loud. TV usually is louder. BUT I hate hate hate the sound of action movie explosions and the awful low end crap they add to sports and commercials!!! I turn down the bass effects on my receiver for HT. For music I use pure mode. I have a marantz 5009.

I guess my real underlying q is whether sierra 2's are enough or whether I need to splurge (and spare the space) for towers.

But I just get no thills from the sub bass domain. And I play drums, electronic drums, and have a shelf full of synths! In my studio I get what I need from good sony headphones and fairly small near fields.

[theophile]

Thx!!



The room is ~18 x15 with one side open into the kitchen. I don't listen to music that loud. TV usually is louder. BUT I hate hate hate the sound of action movie explosions and the awful low end crap they add to sports and commercials!!! I turn down the bass effects on my receiver for HT. For music I use pure mode. I have a marantz 5009.

I guess my real underlying q is whether sierra 2's are enough or whether I need to splurge (and spare the space) for towers.

But I just get no thills from the sub bass domain. And I play drums, electronic drums, and have a shelf full of synths! In my studio I get what I need from good sony headphones and fairly small near fields.

BB,

The Sierra 2's can do it all in that size room! If, as you state, your listening taste for Music is more like "background", then you will appreciate the virtues of these fine monitors full range. However, you may discover that HT audio a challenge if you like to listen close to realistic "theater" levels for movies, etc. You can always add in the future a musical sub (like the Rhythmic L12) to remove And easily control deep "audible bass" from the S2's WITHOUT creating any extra "bass boom" to your HT audio sound. Remember, using a sub, You maintain matching or control volume reduction that will protect the S2's from possibly being over-driven.

On the other hand, just getting the Towers (even the NRT's), can possibly be all you might want in your Music\HT application (an equal cost to S2's + Sub). As far as "space", S2's on stands will take up as much floor real-estate as the floor-standing towers. Maybe, you need to answer the question as to what your plans are for the rest of a Music\HT 5.0 or 5.1 system first?!

Ted

[Blingleberry]

Thx, I actually hate going to the movies these days. Too frigging loud. (and I sometimes play in punk and heavy rock bands). But I really do hate the explosive effects.

Pretty much the rest of the system is in place, although I will eventually upgrade the marantz. But I have a decent NAD cd player and a good Rega TT.

I need a center too but can't fit a horizon in my cabinet. More likely I would get 3 Sierra 2's, with one configured as a ctr.

BTW, I wouldn't say music is background. I've been a musician for over 40 years so more like life is background for music ;-)

Thx!

[mikesiskav]

If you don't care for loud room shaking, pounding bass, I think the Sierra 2's might be just fine for you. They don't have a ton of bass, but the bass that they do have is very tight and has good impact.

[sonicboom]

If you don't care for loud room shaking, pounding bass, I think the Sierra 2's might be just fine for you. They don't have a ton of bass, but the bass that they do have is very tight and has good impact.

I have CMT 340s and looking to upgrade. How will the Sierra 2s compare in bass performance?

[theriddler07sms]

I actually had a 2.0 system with Sierra 2's before I got my sub and before I got my center. You will enjoy a 2.0 system for movies. I stream HBO from my xbox and it doesnt play 5.1 only 2.0 and I have to walk up to my center S2 and touch the driver to realize theres no sound coming from it. A Sierra 2 phantom center works very well (if the Left and Right are correctly positioned).

I will add that a sub is almost a much for HT applications. I went from TV speakers to 2.0 Sierra 2 and was blown away. Added a center and, although was a nice addition, didnt have the same effect. Like I said, sometimes I have to walk up to center to realize its not actually playing haha.

However, Once you get a sub things will change once again. I have been listening to my system in 4.0 instead of 5.1 due to shipping back my current sub and center and the thing I miss the most is the bass.

[mikesiskav]

I have CMT 340s and looking to upgrade. How will the Sierra 2s compare in bass performance?

That would be an interesting comparison. Looking at the specs, the Sierra 2 is rated down to 41hz, whereas the 340 is rated to 45hz. So the Sierra 2 can play a little deeper when it comes to bass. The 340 is a spectacular bargain. Amazing performance for the money. With the dual woofers, you probably get higher output in the mid bass range with the 340. They're also rated to handle more power and they have a higher sensitivity than the Sierra 2, which means they'll play louder with the same amount of power compared to the Sierra 2.

That being said, the Sierra 2 has a pretty big advantage when it comes to pure sound quality. The Sierra 2 has so many things going for it. Technologically advanced CURV woofer, the incredible RAAL tweeter, and the solid bamboo cabinet all work together to reveal details and nuances in music that just isn't possible with the 340, and most other speakers out there.

All that being said, if you plan to play at high volumes with bass heavy music or movies, you really should have a good quality subwoofer.

[Mag_Neato]

Blingleberry,
From the description of your listening tastes I'd say the -2's will be just fine. If at any point you decide you need more bottom end heft than you can always add a Rythmik in the future.

[theophile]

Thx, I actually hate going to the movies these days. Too frigging loud. (and I sometimes play in punk and heavy rock bands). But I really do hate the explosive effects.

"I Hear You"...Theaters have way over accentuated bass boom that simply overpowers dialogue, the music, Everything! I certainly Enjoy My HT audio much more (my sub setting starts at 6 o'clock, have it set one notch at 7 o'clock for proper overall balance)! Movie low\sub bass effects are in their place!


I need a center too but can't fit a horizon in my cabinet. More likely I would get 3 Sierra 2's, with one configured as a ctr.

As riddler stated, properly set up S2's in a stereo only configuration yields an excellent "phantom" center image. You may find this sufficient and satisfying enough, but can easily incorporate full SS in the future.


BTW, I wouldn't say music is background. I've been a musician for over 40 years so more like life is background for music ;-)

Agreed...I listen to Music (2.1 in 90sf room) and HT (5.1 in 440sf room) at "live" listening levels (well maybe a little less with spouse in attendance)! I have no issues with the Sierras in my dedicated music listening room achieving realistic acoustically concert levels (except maybe punk and heavy rock at absurd volumes)! :rolleyes:

Ted

[sludgeogre]

I think the Sierra speakers have to be great for people that don't need a lot of bass, because as people said, what's there is really punchy and impactful. If you don't care for LFE, then no big deal. I have to say that although I haven't heard the Sierra 2, I think you should go for the Towers, which I have. They are the same footprint as the Sierra 2 on a stand, but you get so much speaker in that compact package. Then you can do full range down to 32 Hz perfectly with stereo music, no need for a sub at all (although I enjoy my F12s in a big room). Get a Sierra 2 center for movies and you're golden. That's my two cents.

[Blingleberry]

thanks Ed and Alex.

I think you sum up my fundamental decision! Get S2, which will look better in our small space, probably will sound perfect, and maybe get a sub if needed someday. Or just splurge for the Towers.

Either way I still only have room for an S2 center, unless I replace the cabinet.

Decisions decisions!

[theriddler07sms]

Check out the B-stock Sierra 2's the money you save from those compared to Sierra Towers will net you an F12 sub.

I bought B-stock and cannot find anything wrong with them, other than my pesky fingerprints.

[Jaybeez]

I find the bass very acceptable on my 2's. I do have a Rhythmik sub, but it's set quite low and adds just a touch of low end which is really only noticeable on music with REALLY low end (e.g. Stanley Clarke's "Silly Putty", etc.). The bass at both distance and near field are quite impressive.

I would start with the 2's and add a sub if (and only if) you think you're missing anything.

I'm a drummer and my whole family is musicians. I find loud / heavy sub settings to be unnatural. My 24 x 20 kick never gets that low.

[Blingleberry]

Wait, are you J.. on cymbaholics and drumforum?! Too funny if so. We've traded cymbals.

Anyway that's a very helpful answer. As a drummer too I totally get what you're saying. I've given up all my big BD's and just use 16"-20" ones these days. But even the biggest drums I've played in the past, tuned as low as possible, with kickports and superkick 3's, don't go that low in real life. Its all in the mix :-)

Silly Putty. I just had to listen to it. It's been years. Thx!

-Bill (wolfereeno)

[Jaybeez]

Wait, are you J.. on cymbaholics and drumforum?! Too funny if so. We've traded cymbals.

Anyway that's a very helpful answer. As a drummer too I totally get what you're saying. I've given up all my big BD's and just use 16"-20" ones these days. But even the biggest drums I've played in the past, tuned as low as possible, with kickports and superkick 3's, don't go that low in real life. Its all in the mix :-)

Silly Putty. I just had to listen to it. It's been years. Thx!

-Bill (wolfereeno)

Ha! Yeah, I use the same name on all the forums! Small world.

[goldark]

In a related note, for those who use a sub with their Sierra 2's, what subwoofer are you guys using? And how does it blend with the speakers? Do you use any room correction as well?

[theriddler07sms]

In a related note, for those who use a sub with their Sierra 2's, what subwoofer are you guys using? And how does it blend with the speakers? Do you use any room correction as well?

Check out the Rythmik Subs. I had an F12 and it blended perfectly with the speakers. Wasnt enough bass for my liking so I am switching it to a FV15HP.

There is a lot of people who say the rythmik subs are very musical. Check Them out, you wont find anything bad said about them.

[theophile]

In a related note, for those who use a sub with their Sierra 2's, what subwoofer are you guys using? And how does it blend with the speakers? Do you use any room correction as well?

GA,

I'm using an Axiom EP500 sub (12" ported-10 yrs old & crossed over at 60hz). It has always been very musical, articulate, has great low bass tonality and blends perfectly well with my Sierra's. I can't detect any severe room modes at my listening positions thus at this time and in my 90sf music-only listening room, I have no need for other room treatments or any equalization. My carpeted flooring, window shades and sofa (for listening party of "2") appears to work for me, contributing to a well balanced subsonic to ultrasonic audio spectrum. :D

The Sierra's bass is excellent and I can enjoy all of "my" music (jazz, R&B, orchestral, a capella and solo vocals, wind ensembles, etc.) full range w\o a sub. However, there is about 10% of the time that the music demands to be filled in at the bottom octave and a sub capable of going solid to 20hz really sounds natural and feels great!! But overall, even this 12" really is an "overkill" in my 9x10x11ft room as the output on the sub amp I set for proper monitor response balance at only the 6:30 position (adjust from 6 to 6). But when I do replace the Axiom, the Rythmik F12 will be at the top of my list. Once you hear what a well set up musical sub can do, it's hard to go backwards! :cool:

Ted

[curtis]

In a related note, for those who use a sub with their Sierra 2's, what subwoofer are you guys using? And how does it blend with the speakers? Do you use any room correction as well?
Rythmik F15HP here.

Before I got a Rythmik, I had Hsus and also tried SVS. The Rythmik had better decay and transitions in my room.

FWIW...I went with Rythmik before Ascend started selling them.

[Mag_Neato]

12" sealed Rythmik here. I, like Curtis, found Rythmik before Ascend teamed up with them. I actually purchased the 12" Direct Servo kit from Rythmik and installed the parts in a custom built 2cu.ft. sealed cabinet.

I have been using it in a 2 channel setup with the sub amp handling the crossover duties. I feed the signal from preamp stage to it and it sends the filtered signal, 80hz, to my amp which then powers the Sierra-2's.

I have it setup in an open, finished basement of approx. 1600-1700 sq.ft. and it does terrific. I could probably benefit from the 15" version but I may add another 12" in the future depending on budget, etc.

[eyecatcher]

sierra 2 bass is pretty awesome by itself as far as bookshelves go at critical listening levels, the bass is super tight and so musical.. it is just missing the bottom octave, i had them with a large ported svs sub and it was great blend also. i found no room correction is truly best for the ascend's IMHO and i have used audyssey xt32, extensive listening and rew measurements. I'm currently using my srt towers with a rythmik f15hp through an anthem 520.

[curtis]

FYI...my system is EQd below 300hz.

[Blingleberry]

I'll post a review when I get more used to the S2's and they break in, but so far I am feeling like I am missing the bass my older sound dynamic speakers had with their front ported 8" woofers. What would the smallest decent sub be that I might look into? Thx

[justthinking]

What is your budget? I assume you are looking for a sub for music only?
If you are using separated preamp and power amp, I would recommend take a look at Rythmik F12 with PEQ amplifier which has HPF build in

If you are using AVR and LFE connection, then either L12 or F12 with PEQ3 amplifier will work fine...

[Blingleberry]

Not sure what all your acronyms mean. I would use the sub out of my marantz 5009 receiver. I mainly care about music. Don't want room shaking explosions - hate that. The smaller the better and internal amp. Budget < 700. Even under 500 if I could find something good.

I almost grabbed an F8 on clearance that I saw last night but it seems to be gone.

[mikesiskav]

What's the model number of your old speakers? With an 8" inch woofer, it sounds like a larger speaker. Keep in mind, the Sierra-2 bass response is extremely linear and accurate. Many speakers have a boosted lower end to make them sound more impressive, but it is far from accurate. I'm not saying for sure this applies to your old speakers, but it is a possibility.

Also, can you give us an idea of your listening room size, shape, and seating position? All of those things can greatly affect the sound of your speakers particularly in the bass frequencies. For example, if your seating position is near the middle of the room, you'll be sitting in a bass null, which means the bass will be sucked out of your music.

[Blingleberry]

My old speakers are Sound Dynamic 300TI. Good speakers but too soft in the high end for me these days which led me to want to switch. My listening room is http://billwolf.com/temp/home1.jpg.

Maybe I can push the couch a little forward from mid room.

Thx!

[mikesiskav]

Those look like pretty big speakers. And with an 8" woofer, I wouldn't be surprised if they had more bass output than the Sierra-2.

For your couch, I think you'll get a bit more bass output by moving the couch further back instead of forward. Moving forward, you'll probably get less bass.

[Blingleberry]

Moving the couch but also toeing the speakers less seems to help a bit. And the backs of the speakers are about 15" away from the back wall.

I was watching the latest star wars movie last night and noticed a lot more bass for sure. But some of the really low bass breaks up the sound a bit - and you can really see the woofers jumping around during explosions and stuff. I may need to figure out how to filter that out a bit. Or go the sub route.

[theophile]

I was watching the latest star wars movie last night and noticed a lot more bass for sure. But some of the really low bass breaks up the sound a bit - and you can really see the woofers jumping around during explosions and stuff. I may need to figure out how to filter that out a bit. Or go the sub route.

BB,

Movie audio mixes Can\Does carry bass passage demands "well below" the S2 port tuning. If you noticed the upper bass\lower midrange getting muddy or music\voice clarity "break-ups", the 6" curvy woofers may be over driven...Be Cautious! It is for these reasons most integrate a quality sub to playback HT audio while -protecting- their precious high-end monitors from the possible evils of Hollywood! :rolleyes: ;)

Ted

[Blingleberry]

BB,

Be Cautious! It is for these reasons most integrate a quality sub to playback HT audio while -protecting- their precious high-end monitors from the possible evils of Hollywood! :rolleyes: ;)

Ted

Thx - other than hooking up a sub, how does one get the receiver to filter that content out of the main channels? I was playing around with trying to fool my amp into thinking a subwoofer existed, but it was still sending the deep bass.

[mikesiskav]

You can set a crossover in the receiver even if you have no sub. Just set the speakers to small and set the crossover where you like (since you don't actually have a sub right now, I'd set the crossover fairly low, either 40 or 60hz). This will filter out the low frequencies going to your Sierra-2. 60hz will filter out more bass than 40hz.

[mikesiskav]

Also, if your receiver has Audyssey Dynamic Volume, try turning that on. That will boost dialogue, and bring down the loud explosions. This is reducing the dynamic range of your system, but some people prefer it this way.

[Blingleberry]

Thanks!! I will try that. When I set the speakers to small it didn't give me an option to say there was no Sub so I left them at large.

I also need to play around with Audyssey again, which I gave up on a while back and instead started setting things by ear. But that was mainly because I wanted to override the EQ settings to compensate for the weak treb in my old speakers. I get a sense already that I don't need to do that with the ascends.

TIA