request recommendations on mid-price integrated or receiver to replace old separates

[Lojo]

Hi Ascend community,
My old stereo separates died after 30+ years and I'm looking to simplify with a receiver of decent sonic quality or an integrated that is modern enough to connect new tv and dvd to. Prefer money go to quality stereo sound but I'm open to multi-channels of amp if the overall value is there. For context, my old set up had a Soundcraftsman amp, Parasound pre and a special edition Marantz 5 disc cd player. I really want Ascend speakers but I want to have the electronics selected before I get the speakers so I'll have a full month to evaluate them during the return period should that be needed.
Anyone's thoughts or experiences here will be much appreciated....thank you!
Lojo

[MusicHead]

What power level are you looking for? If you want new, I'd suggest, in no particular order:

- Marantz PM8005:
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=HiFiComponents&SubCatId=&ProductId=PM8005
- Outlaw RR2150 (if you do not mind the retro look):
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html
NAD C 3xx series:
http://nadelectronics.com/products/hifi-amplifiers

Multi-channel gets more difficult, as to keep cost reasonable a 5-ch or 7-ch AVR will have to cut corners somewhere. In the mainstream brands usually the tendency is to provide more of the bells & whistles and skimp on the power section. With the more audio enthusiast oriented brands (Emotiva, Anthem, NAD, Cambridge Audio, Rotel, etc.) the opposite is often true: less "gadgetry", more money put into the power stages.

I had for many years a NAD T-752 AVR, 5X80W or 2x100W. Now I have a Emotiva Fusion 8100 AVR, 7x65W, 5x80W or 2x110W. Very happy with both in my 17x13x8 room, whether with movies or music. The NAD I used with passive speakers only, the same with the Fusion 8100 initially, but now supplemented by a Rythmik L12 sub.

[Todd WI]

Check out the Marantz SR7008 receiver. I think it offers a lot of value at current (discounted) prices if you can live without the latest features like Atmos and 4K.

[sludgeogre]

Looking for HDMI connectivity in stereo limits your options quite a bit. Most stereo receivers are quite terrible, except for the Outlaw Audio one that was linked above, that guy is fantastic.

There are some OK ones here on Accessories 4 Less that have all of the conectivity options that you need, but just as a previous post here said, they skimp on power in favor of more gadetry and connectivity options.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/stereoreceivers/home-audio/receivers-amps/stereo-receivers/1.html

The PM8005 is a great unit, but it doesn't have HDMI connectivity, only analog audio in, so you'd need to use the DAC's in your separate devices, or have a separate DAC. The Outlaw stereo receiver is in the same category.

So, if you really want it all in one unit, you'll either have to buy a decent multi channel receiver (The SR7008 is a great recommendation) or a stereo receiver with a decent power section and the right connectivity options, which is hard to find.

[Lojo]

Dear Todd WI,
Thankyou very much for taking time to reply. Much appreciated!
Lojo

[Lojo]

Dear Sludgeogre,
I'm finding out that you are so right; hard to find just the right thing: hi quality sound amp combined with the most modern connectivity. Truly grateful for your reply!
Lojo
PS Y'all are the best.

[Todd WI]

Dear Sludgeogre,
I'm finding out that you are so right; hard to find just the right thing: hi quality sound amp combined with the most modern connectivity.


Yep, I apologize for suggesting a receiver that has 9 amplified channels, 7 of which you wouldn't use, but there isn't a lot of middle ground. The high(er) quality receivers typically come with a lot of other "features". I think this is what you are looking for

http://www.arcam.co.uk/products,FMJ,Integrated-Amplifiers,sr250.htm

but probably not at its $3600 list price.

It doesn't sound like you need/want all the latest bells and whistles, maybe you could find a similar used Arcam unit? Another option might be to replace your separates with errr separates. Maybe something like a used Arcam AVP 700 AVP700 ($300 used on Amazon now) paired with a new Marantz MM7025? Just thinking out loud.

Todd

[Lojo]

Hey Todd,
one more thing....what does "errr" mean? I assume it means used but not sure.
Thankyou,
Lojo

[Todd WI]

Hey Todd,
one more thing....what does "errr" mean? I assume it means used but not sure.
Thankyou,
Lojo

Just bad grammar meant to make me sound smart when in fact it does the opposite, like an ummm, or an ahhhh, or "wait for it...".

[merrymaid520]

Check audiogon. There's a Parasound halo integrated up right now.

[Lojo]

Thank you merrymaid520. I love all these wonderful suggestions.

[freesole]

How about the Anthem MRX 510 or 520? About a $1,200-1,400. Great receiver with your basic features and connectivity but what makes me love this receiver is its ability to perform in music. It doesn't sound all that far off from my dedicated Oppo Dac.

[sludgeogre]

How about the Anthem MRX 510 or 520? About a $1,200-1,400. Great receiver with your basic features and connectivity but what makes me love this receiver is its ability to perform in music. It doesn't sound all that far off from my dedicated Oppo Dac.

I'm saving for an Anthem AVM 60 or maybe an Emotiva XMC-1. Have no idea which way I want to go, but with all of the great things I'm hearing about Anthem's new products, it looks like it's the way to go.

[yesplease]

Here's how I would rate the AVRs (or prepro):

1. Arcam - Dirac Live FTW
2. Anthem - ARC is really good but a step below Dirac
3. Yamaha - Good quality and YPAO is pretty good, but below the other 2.
.
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10. Denon/Marantz - After hearing the 3 systems listed above, I will never ever ever use Audyssey again.

[curtis]

Here's how I would rate the AVRs (or prepro):

1. Arcam - Dirac Live FTW
2. Anthem - ARC is really good but a step below Dirac
3. Yamaha - Good quality and YPAO is pretty good, but below the other 2.
.
.
.
.
.
.
10. Denon/Marantz - After hearing the 3 systems listed above, I will never ever ever use Audyssey again.
It isn't in the same price range, but have you ever heard a system using Trinnov? Thoughts?

[yesplease]

It isn't in the same price range, but have you ever heard a system using Trinnov? Thoughts?

No, I've made a point not to just in case I'm so blown away I begin planning/scheming to get one. I should already be putting more into my IRAs.

I really wish they were in the 10k-15k range. In the receiver market now, pretty much everything is in the sub 5k range and then you have to jump up to 20k+ to dance with the big boys.

[curtis]

No, I've made a point not to just in case I'm so blown away I begin planning/scheming to get one. I should already be putting more into my IRAs.

I really wish they were in the 10k-15k range. In the receiver market now, pretty much everything is in the sub 5k range and then you have to jump up to 20k+ to dance with the big boys.
Yeah...if/when I want to upgrade to 4K and/or Atmos....or anything new for that matter, I'm going to have to weigh that against giving up Trinnov...it is just too expensive.

[jlb14ski]

Here's how I would rate the AVRs (or prepro):

1. Arcam - Dirac Live FTW
2. Anthem - ARC is really good but a step below Dirac
3. Yamaha - Good quality and YPAO is pretty good, but below the other 2.
.
.
.
.
.
.
10. Denon/Marantz - After hearing the 3 systems listed above, I will never ever ever use Audyssey again.

I purchased the Sierra 2s, and I made the mistake of pairing them with a Denon AVR-X2000. The sound is not what I was hoping for. I just registered for this forum, clicked this thread, and within 20 seconds I see this post re: Audyssey, confirming what I thought to be true for the last 6 months: that Denon stinks. Should I go with a Yamaha Aventage? I need a theater receiver because I do plan on using the receiver for movies (and getting a center channel Sierra 2) even though as of now I only have a 2 speaker system with no sub, but music is my primary concern. Can someone suggest a decent quality receiver in the 1000$ range that will provide me with quality sound for music? Thank you very much.

[sludgeogre]

I purchased the Sierra 2s, and I made the mistake of pairing them with a Denon AVR-X2000. The sound is not what I was hoping for. I just registered for this forum, clicked this thread, and within 20 seconds I see this post re: Audyssey, confirming what I thought to be true for the last 6 months: that Denon stinks. Should I go with a Yamaha Aventage? I need a theater receiver because I do plan on using the receiver for movies (and getting a center channel Sierra 2) even though as of now I only have a 2 speaker system with no sub, but music is my primary concern. Can someone suggest a decent quality receiver in the 1000$ range that will provide me with quality sound for music? Thank you very much.

What are you missing? Could just be that you need a subwoofer for your space. Anyway, I have a Marantz AV7701 connected to an Emotiva XPA-5 and I love the sound, but it certainly sounds a little sweeter with my Schiit Bifrost Multibit connected, but, like you, I also need my other three speakers for movies.

[jlb14ski]

What are you missing? Could just be that you need a subwoofer for your space. Anyway, I have a Marantz AV7701 connected to an Emotiva XPA-5 and I love the sound, but it certainly sounds a little sweeter with my Schiit Bifrost Multibit connected, but, like you, I also need my other three speakers for movies.

I'm not really sure what I am missing, because this is my first foray into a real setup. The bass on the Sierra 2s is more than sufficient, I just think the Denon is poor quality and could be affecting the way I hear my music. I am just not impressed with the mids, and I know the mids are supposed to be the Sierra 2's strong suit. What is the benefit of a preamp connected to the emotiva? I am considering a Yamaha Aventage 1050, with the hope that it will improve overall sound.

[Todd WI]

Have you tried taking Audyssey out of the loop by running in pure direct mode?

[jlb14ski]

Have you tried taking Audyssey out of the loop by running in pure direct mode?

Yes, I use the pure direct mode when listening to music. My real question is whether or not a higher end receiver will improve my sound. If I spend around $1000 is it possible that my listening experience will be improved over my AVR-X2000.

[curtis]

Yes, I use the pure direct mode when listening to music. My real question is whether or not a higher end receiver will improve my sound. If I spend around $1000 is it possible that my listening experience will be improved over my AVR-X2000.
The issue may very well be your expectations and what you are accustomed to hearing are affecting what you are expecting.

[sludgeogre]

I'm not really sure what I am missing, because this is my first foray into a real setup. The bass on the Sierra 2s is more than sufficient, I just think the Denon is poor quality and could be affecting the way I hear my music. I am just not impressed with the mids, and I know the mids are supposed to be the Sierra 2's strong suit. What is the benefit of a preamp connected to the emotiva? I am considering a Yamaha Aventage 1050, with the hope that it will improve overall sound.

Well, with a receiver you're not getting the best DAC implementations out there, and the amps are a bit noisier, from what I see out there. If you want totally flat mids, you are going to need a more expensive receiver with a better DAC impelentation combined with room correction and room treatments. It's not easy to get your speakers to reproduce flat mids. Headphones are much easier. That being said, I'm still very happy with my system the way it is, but I could do with more vocal clarity, but I'm only going to get that with a better room and some treatments and/or a better processor with better room correction.

I think you'll be totally blown away if you invest in something that has Dirac Live, everything I've ready about it is pretty amazing, and midrange presence is supposed to be vastly improved over other room correction implementations from what I've read, but Dirac is really expensive to get. I haven't heard any of Yamaha's receivers or researched them, so I can't really tell you how they stack up.

As far as putting in a preamp, it just allows me to run a really beefy amp with tons of headroom instead of using a receiver amp that tends to be far less powerful. In my experience, having a lot of headroom makes a huge difference, especially in loud passages where your speakers may be dipping down into very low impedance ranges. Most receivers are only rated at two channels driven, and barely give you enough juice to make your music satisfying, but I listen to a lot of metal, so I really need power.

Unfortunately your current receiver doesn't have preamp outputs so you can't really test that theory if you were to purchase an amp. I think you should definitely get an amp with honest, decent power ratings (above 150 watts per channel is what I typically prefer for larger, HT purposed speakers) and a a good DAC. The stuff that has been mentioned here will get you there. I honestly don't think the Yamaha Aventage 1050 will be that much of an upgrade. It uses another lower tier DAC and is only rated at 110 watts with 2 channels driven. That is barely an improvement over what you have. You'd really only be hoping that the room correction makes a huge difference, and I wouldn't hold my breath for that.

I think Outlaw is the best value you're going to find and which fits your budget. For $999 you can get their Model 975 processor and Model 5000 amp that is 120 watts into all channels driven. This will give you lower THD, higher filter capacitance, and many other big pluses IMHO.

http://outlawaudio.com/products/975.html

[white_darren]

I purchased the Sierra 2s, and I made the mistake of pairing them with a Denon AVR-X2000. The sound is not what I was hoping for.


I'm not really sure what I am missing, because this is my first foray into a real setup. The bass on the Sierra 2s is more than sufficient, I just think the Denon is poor quality and could be affecting the way I hear my music. I am just not impressed with the mids, and I know the mids are supposed to be the Sierra 2's strong suit.

I would focus first on room integration. Optimize speaker placement and then give Audyssey a chance. Or maybe 3. It may not be the absolute best room correction on the market but it's actually quite capable. I had to go through the process a few times with variations on mic placement before I finally got good results but it made a huge difference in my room and I have absolutely no complaints about the results (I've got a Marantz SR-6008 AVR).

I've got LCR Sierra-1, which is supposed to have a little deeper bass than the Sierra-2. A lot of people say they have plenty of bass for music but, in my very large and open listening area with lots of glass and tile, I always felt they sounded a little thin until I added in a Rythmik E15. For me it took a combination of speaker placement, a good sub and Audyssey to really let my Sierras shine. I can't even relate to the improvements the Sierra-2 or RAAL Towers would offer (although someday I will go visit Ascend, meet Dave and audition the RAAL Towers).

Curtis also has a good point about your expectations. Perhaps the Sierra-2 are just such a step up in clarity from what you're used to listening to that your ears are still "missing" the sounds that never really should have been coming from your old speakers to begin with.

I guess the point I'm trying to get at is not to jump to conclusions about the equipment. While receivers can definitely color the sound, I'd be truly surprised if your disappointment is strictly due to your Denon AVR. Even if it's a contributing factor, don't assume replacing it will be a magic bullet.

Also, while I have no first hand experience with either of the receiver models you mention, internet lore would indicate that Denon tends to be a warmer/smoother sounding receiver and Yamaha brighter/harsher. If there is any truth to that, I'd think you would be moving in the wrong direction with the Yamaha. There's only one sure way to know how something is going to sound in your room though... and that is to listen to it in your room.