Sierra 2's with Bob Latino VTA ST-120 Tube Amp?

[monkuboy]

I was wondering if anyone here uses a Bob Latino amp (the ST-120 in particular) to power their Sierra 2's, and what sort of synergy that combo has. Maybe Dave could give his thoughts on it as well?

I've never used a tube amp before but the VTA ST-120 has gotten good reviews. I'd like to know if it's a good match and confirm it has enough power to drive the speakers. Thanks for any input!

[davef]

I was wondering if anyone here uses a Bob Latino amp (the ST-120 in particular) to power their Sierra 2's, and what sort of synergy that combo has. Maybe Dave could give his thoughts on it as well?

I've never used a tube amp before but the VTA ST-120 has gotten good reviews. I'd like to know if it's a good match and confirm it has enough power to drive the speakers. Thanks for any input!

I have no experience with this amp, but the Sierra-2 sound wonderful with tube amps. The 2's are a very easy load -- I wouldn't worry too much about synergy and 60 watts is plenty of power. I say go for it and report back :)

[monkuboy]

I have no experience with this amp, but the Sierra-2 sound wonderful with tube amps. The 2's are a very easy load -- I wouldn't worry too much about synergy and 60 watts is plenty of power. I say go for it and report back :)

Thanks, Dave! I couldn't resist temptation so I went ahead and ordered the VTA ST-120 kit today and it should be shipping tomorrow. I plan to be diligent and take my time with it so it will probably take me 2x or 3x longer than the estimated 10-12 hour build time but it should be worth it and then I'll report back on it.

Meanwhile, I absolutely love my Sierra 2's. Just amazingly good sound. And I love the CBM-170's for the surround speakers, too!

[davef]

Thanks, Dave! I couldn't resist temptation so I went ahead and ordered the VTA ST-120 kit today and it should be shipping tomorrow. I plan to be diligent and take my time with it so it will probably take me 2x or 3x longer than the estimated 10-12 hour build time but it should be worth it and then I'll report back on it.

Meanwhile, I absolutely love my Sierra 2's. Just amazingly good sound. And I love the CBM-170's for the surround speakers, too!

Excellent... I look forward to your feedback on the amp and don't forget pics :)

[monkuboy]

I'm reporting back now that I finished building the amp. The instructions are excellent but I am thankful for the help I got from someone who is familiar with them just to clarify a few things and also to help troubleshoot when it didn't work properly at first (turns out a few solder joints had to be redone). But now the amp is up and running and I am a bit skeptical because it sounds fantastic.

Why skeptical? Because right away I heard a difference between it and the solid state amps I've used. This new amp sounds pure and clean, has an uncanny 3D soundstage in which everything is precisely placed, and excellent transients. I was happy with the sound before but this is a definite step up. Thing is, I wonder if my ears/mind are just playing tricks on me because I want it to sound better. The amp is also really quiet. With my ear right up to the speakers, I can barely hear a really faint buzz in the left channel and nothing at all from the right. I thought the right channel wasn't working because it was dead silent.

I listened to Santana's "Europa" with the ST-120 and then with my current amps, Crown XLS-1500's in monoblock mode. Through the ST-120, the track was cleaner, with Carlos Santana's guitar work sounding very precise and dynamic. The instruments were more precisely placed whereas with the Crowns imaging seemed fuzzier. I'm not sure how to really describe it but the ST-120 did a noticeably better job. Prior to this, I've always had solid state amps and when operated within their specs, I've never heard any real differences or anything I could consistently point out as different. But this new tube amp is wowsers for me. I still am wondering if my mind is playing tricks so I'm looking forward to extended listening sessions this weekend just to validate my first impressions.

Oh - and of course everything is so much better because the sound is coming through a pair of Sierra 2's. These speakers are incredibly good.

Sorry, no pics yet as I forgot to take them! Too excited listening, I guess.

[sludgeogre]

The only experience I have with tubes is the Vali 1 headphone amp, and it did indeed sound very lush and sweet, but I'm a big metalhead so it didn't jive too well with most of the music I listen to. I'm sure a more expensive headphone amp with better tubes would sound better to me.

One thing about the soundstage and imaging, though. The XLS-1500's are pro amps, and most pro gear is tailored to have a different kind of sound than home gear. It's usually less euphonic and more straight forward to help people mix better. What other kind of solid state amps have you had? I have my towers hooked up to an Emotiva XPA-5 and the soundstage is certainly 3D and the dynamics are astounding. I listened to my towers in pure stereo 2.0 mode again last night and I'm still floored by just how much bass and impact they can put out.

[monkuboy]

The only experience I have with tubes is the Vali 1 headphone amp, and it did indeed sound very lush and sweet, but I'm a big metalhead so it didn't jive too well with most of the music I listen to. I'm sure a more expensive headphone amp with better tubes would sound better to me.

One thing about the soundstage and imaging, though. The XLS-1500's are pro amps, and most pro gear is tailored to have a different kind of sound than home gear. It's usually less euphonic and more straight forward to help people mix better. What other kind of solid state amps have you had? I have my towers hooked up to an Emotiva XPA-5 and the soundstage is certainly 3D and the dynamics are astounding. I listened to my towers in pure stereo 2.0 mode again last night and I'm still floored by just how much bass and impact they can put out.

Actually, the dedicated amps I've had before the Crowns have all been Emotiva. I've owned quite the range, starting with the XPA-3 and after that, UPA-2, a pair of XPA-1's, XPA-5, XPA-2 gen 1 and XPA-2 gen 2 at varying times. The most recent before the Crowns was the XPA-2 Gen 2 and XPA-5. I didn't directly compare the Crowns versus the Emotiva amps, but nothing really struck me as any different. I don't play music at real high volumes so I don't think I've ever driven any of my amps near their limits. I listen mainly to classic rock, jazz of all types and some classical. The main difference I've noticed between the Crowns and Emotiva is the Crowns have a little more background hiss with just the speakers connected to the amp with no source playing.

With the new ST-120, I wasn't listening for any sort of difference but the differences struck me pretty much right away which actually surprised me. That's why I want to listen a lot more this weekend to validate those impressions.

I realize it is a tough job but I'll make the sacrifice. ;)

[sludgeogre]

Actually, the dedicated amps I've had before the Crowns have all been Emotiva. I've owned quite the range, starting with the XPA-3 and after that, UPA-2, a pair of XPA-1's, XPA-5, XPA-2 gen 1 and XPA-2 gen 2 at varying times. The most recent before the Crowns was the XPA-2 Gen 2 and XPA-5. I didn't directly compare the Crowns versus the Emotiva amps, but nothing really struck me as any different. I don't play music at real high volumes so I don't think I've ever driven any of my amps near their limits. I listen mainly to classic rock, jazz of all types and some classical. The main difference I've noticed between the Crowns and Emotiva is the Crowns have a little more background hiss with just the speakers connected to the amp with no source playing.

With the new ST-120, I wasn't listening for any sort of difference but the differences struck me pretty much right away which actually surprised me. That's why I want to listen a lot more this weekend to validate those impressions.

I realize it is a tough job but I'll make the sacrifice. ;)

Awesome, very interesting. I'm a big fan of Emotiva versus the McIntosh gear that my Dad has and the receivers that my friends have. I've always found them to be cleaner and more dynamic. The background hiss from the XPA-5 is already enough, the crowns would probably drive me nuts :p

I believe this is the very reason that so many people get sucked into tube audio and end up spending absurd amounts of money importing tubes from all over the planet. Bottlehead is another DIY company that has some really, really die hard fans. I can't tell you how much I've heard about the Sennheiser HD 650 paired with a Bottlehead Crack headphone amp. People really claim it to be an end game setup for headphones. You should check it out if you ever need some open headphones!

[monkuboy]

Awesome, very interesting. I'm a big fan of Emotiva versus the McIntosh gear that my Dad has and the receivers that my friends have. I've always found them to be cleaner and more dynamic. The background hiss from the XPA-5 is already enough, the crowns would probably drive me nuts :p

I believe this is the very reason that so many people get sucked into tube audio and end up spending absurd amounts of money importing tubes from all over the planet. Bottlehead is another DIY company that has some really, really die hard fans. I can't tell you how much I've heard about the Sennheiser HD 650 paired with a Bottlehead Crack headphone amp. People really claim it to be an end game setup for headphones. You should check it out if you ever need some open headphones!

I'm also a big fan of Emotiva. I've had a bunch of their products, although now I just have the XMC-1, ERC-2, Airmotiv 4's and a CMX-2. The reason for selling the other stuff has nothing to do with product quality as I've always been pleased with them but I just tend to keep turning over gear (bad habit). Mainly I hang out over at their forum and I guess people would consider me one of the "fanboys."

I've had a bunch of speakers but I seriously believe that quest has stopped with the Sierra 2's. I have no desire for anything else.

I also have a Schiit Valhalla 2 tube amp but don't really notice that much difference between it and solid state stuff. As far as tube gear, I purchased the ST-120 mainly out of curiosity as to how much difference a tube amp would make, and also wanting the challenge of building one from a kit. Despite my having to resolder some joints, it was really enjoyable and I'd love to do another kit, having learned some things along the way.

Now one thing I don't plan on doing is getting addicted to tube rolling! That's just too darn expensive. Only real "drawback" so far with the amp is how hot those tubes get. Kind of scares me but everyone says that's normal.

Oh, and I have the Senn HD650's and really like them. But recently I got the HD800's and those are definitely a step up. Those are really, really good. To me that one is the end game. :)

[MusicHead]

I'm reporting back now that I finished building the amp. The instructions are excellent but I am thankful for the help I got from someone who is familiar with them just to clarify a few things and also to help troubleshoot when it didn't work properly at first (turns out a few solder joints had to be redone). But now the amp is up and running and I am a bit skeptical because it sounds fantastic.

Why skeptical? Because right away I heard a difference between it and the solid state amps I've used. This new amp sounds pure and clean, has an uncanny 3D soundstage in which everything is precisely placed, and excellent transients. I was happy with the sound before but this is a definite step up. Thing is, I wonder if my ears/mind are just playing tricks on me because I want it to sound better. The amp is also really quiet. With my ear right up to the speakers, I can barely hear a really faint buzz in the left channel and nothing at all from the right. I thought the right channel wasn't working because it was dead silent.

I listened to Santana's "Europa" with the ST-120 and then with my current amps, Crown XLS-1500's in monoblock mode. Through the ST-120, the track was cleaner, with Carlos Santana's guitar work sounding very precise and dynamic. The instruments were more precisely placed whereas with the Crowns imaging seemed fuzzier. I'm not sure how to really describe it but the ST-120 did a noticeably better job. Prior to this, I've always had solid state amps and when operated within their specs, I've never heard any real differences or anything I could consistently point out as different. But this new tube amp is wowsers for me. I still am wondering if my mind is playing tricks so I'm looking forward to extended listening sessions this weekend just to validate my first impressions.

Oh - and of course everything is so much better because the sound is coming through a pair of Sierra 2's. These speakers are incredibly good.

Sorry, no pics yet as I forgot to take them! Too excited listening, I guess.

Oversimplifying, tube amps sound different mainly because they interact differently with speakers.

For a more elaborated answer and certainly far more qualified than mine I suggest this:

http://sound.westhost.com/valves/valve-trans.html

Did your amp assembly come out as those pictures you posted on the "other" forum? :-)

[monkuboy]

Oversimplifying, tube amps sound different mainly because they interact differently with speakers.

For a more elaborated answer and certainly far more qualified than mine I suggest this:

http://sound.westhost.com/valves/valve-trans.html

Did your amp assembly come out as those pictures you posted on the "other" forum? :-)

Thanks for the link. So far so good with the amp! Here's some pics. As for did the assembly come out looking like the instruction manual picture, well it was close but not as neat.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1VwLDX5BsvE/Vx2Df8rd13I/AAAAAAAAAp0/Tjl3o7ZZWh4pmQJOB7lXNrMyaUUH_OLIQCLcB/s1600/IMG_0238.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f5lPufBF6Jc/Vx2DfwR-IJI/AAAAAAAAApw/FpiDzodZjdMjXZWkI-itJ1zlmJ6fwDsmwCLcB/s1600/IMG_0240.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dnWdhDLNrbc/Vx2DfwoS4hI/AAAAAAAAAps/_Z2PNtAJgi0ktutxvw57Ql7y6HSI-XN3wCLcB/s1600/IMG_0242.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qCDIAzLX8as/Vx2DgXqipCI/AAAAAAAAAp4/QiGvlPGBhz4viSCRdu1GKdFj8BdutbDTwCLcB/s1600/IMG_0248.jpg

[MusicHead]

Hey, looks pretty cool, nice job. It is not like 90 degree bends in a wire have magical properties :-)

If you go one level up in the website from the page I linked, you'll find even more, if you are interested.

The article on tubes (valves) myths is quite interesting as well.