What would you compair to the Seirra towers?

[nino]

My reasoning for asking this question is I recently went to a local store to demo some speakers in a listening room. I need to get a job at an audio store! what a pleasant afternoon!

so the speakers I listen to:

monitor audio silver 6- Was not a fan. Found the speaker to be harsh/bright. The midrange was anything but pleasing. Did not give me the sound I was looking for. Sounded almost cheap. Did play much louder than the totem hawks.

Totem Hawks- I really enjoyed listening to these speakers. It was on a A/B switch with the monitor audio silver 6. These speakers were very clear, never bright, the imagining was fantastic. My favourite speaker I have heard to date.

B&w-805- These speakers were much more pleasing then the monitor audio. Found them to be bright, fatiguing. They were quite dynamic. The totems were much better in my opinion.

The sales guy I was dealing with told me I should avoid ribbon tweeters if i was not a fan of monitor audio/ B&w. Is there any truth to this? How does the seirra tower compair to the totem hawk? I would love to demo the seirras but it is not cost effective since I live in Alberta,Canada

Any input is welcome!
Cheers,
Nik

[randyrlee2]

I am not an audiophile. I can afford much more expensive speakers than I bought. I have the RAAL Towers because I couldn't find anything better. The RAAL tweeter is simply the finest top end of any I've heard.

I understand 90% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border. Maybe you can find someone just across the border to let you listen. I live in Seattle and have had a couple of folks from this site ask to listen.

[nino]

I have no doubt ,they are fantastic speakers. I know the type of sound I am after and was hoping someone would have listened to both the Totems( hawks or Forests) /Sierra towers and could tell me there perceived differences/ similarities in sound. I have had lots of problems in the past with listeners fatigue. My ears are quite sensitive and hoping to finally buy speakers that I wont need to replace. I know i'm beating the same question thats been asked a million times.


With all the listening I have done over the past couple years, the Totems have been my favourite and they are by far one of the cheapest I have looked at. Originally set my budget quite a bit higher. I would love to audition the Sierra towers before buying. A A/B comparison with the totems would be ideal but not realistic. Its just hard to buy something I have never heard, knowing I have sensitive hearing.

Im in the 10% of the population that is quite far from the US border. Im in Edmonton, Alberta about 12 hours from the Seattle boarder.

Appreciate your reply!

[freesole]

I haven't heard the Totem's but I did a direct comparison between the RAAL towers and the Focal 936's which retail for quite a bit more than the Sierra's. I ended up choosing the Sierra Towers. They are really that good. The Focals were no slouch either but in terms of transparency and details, the Ascends really did end up on top.

[MusicHead]

The sales guy I was dealing with told me I should avoid ribbon tweeters if i was not a fan of monitor audio/ B&w. Is there any truth to this? How does the seirra tower compair to the totem hawk? I would love to demo the seirras but it is not cost effective since I live in Alberta,Canada

Any input is welcome!
Cheers,
Nik

Can't help you with the Totem vs Sierra comparison, however absolute statements like that always raise a red flag.

I put it in the same league as stuff like "All solid state amps sound harsh" or "Front wheel drive is better than rear wheel drive" or "Training with free weigths is already better then training with machines".

In my experience such wide generalization statements come from either ignorance/misinformation or a vested interest in an option rather than another.

[justthinking]

I wouldn't use the word bright and harsh to describe RAAL, I think they are crisp, clean, transparent, has more detail and resolution than any other tweeters I have heard

That been said, it does take a while to get used to the RAAL sound and you may indeed find them to be bright (at least initially) just due to the extra details you are going to hear that maybe missed by other dome tweeters

Actually, I am pretty familiar with Monitor Audio, B&W and Totem and I think the perceived brightness and harshness you are experiencing may have a lot more to do with the room and placement than the actual speakers themselves..

You may like how Totem sound in that particular room but same may not be true once you bring the speakers home, so if you can, try to see if you can do in home demo..

[nino]

Can't help you with the Totem vs Sierra comparison, however absolute statements like that always raise a red flag.

I put it in the same league as stuff like "All solid state amps sound harsh" or "Front wheel drive is better than rear wheel drive" or "Training with free weigths is already better then training with machines".

In my experience such wide generalization statements come from either ignorance/misinformation or a vested interest in an option rather than another.

I totally agree. It was a blank statement that caught me off guard.It went against everything I have read /the spec charts in regards to the RAAL Ribbons.

[nino]

I wouldn't use the word bright and harsh to describe RAAL, I think they are crisp, clean, transparent, has more detail and resolution than any other tweeters I have heard

That been said, it does take a while to get used to the RAAL sound and you may indeed find them to be bright (at least initially) just due to the extra details you are going to hear that maybe missed by other dome tweeters

Actually, I am pretty familiar with Monitor Audio, B&W and Totem and I think the perceived brightness and harshness you are experiencing may have a lot more to do with the room and placement than the actual speakers themselves..

You may like how Totem sound in that particular room but same may not be true once you bring the speakers home, so if you can, try to see if you can do in home demo..

Just had a "DUH" moment to myself. The speakers were never adjusted, they where simply set up and I went left with an Ipad/ controller to switch through music. As you could tell by my initial thoughts I found the Monitor audios terrible and didn't even think about the in room acoustics. I simply Blamed the speakers. Could it be the totems are easier to place?

With the speakers I have listened to, how would you rate them against the Seirra towers with Raal?
Similarities? Differences? I do understand it is all very subjective.

[curtis]

That been said, it does take a while to get used to the RAAL sound and you may indeed find them to be bright (at least initially) just due to the extra details you are going to hear that maybe missed by other dome tweeters

IMO, they don't sound bright initially...in fact, I think the opposite. In fact, when you hear the detail, you wonder how they do it.

[XEagleDriver]

Concur with curtis, I did not find the RAALs in my S2s bright at all, just much more accurate and detailed.

To me this difference in the RAAL can be described as it produces delicate sounds I was previously unaware of, but upon hearing them knew I should have been hearing them all along; in contrast, bright speakers just emphasize HF sounds which rapidly are unpleasant to listen too and clearly are NOT part of the music performance/recording.

- Over several years, I have slowly discovered I do not particularly like the few metalic dome tweeters I have heard or owned, particularly in Monitor Silver and PSB Image. I found Wharfdales silk domes to be much more pleasing, but they are incapable of providing the detail and accuracy of the RAALs. I did not know this until I jumped in and bought a pair of S2s and was able to do a side-by-side comparison at home.

[justthinking]

My point is, for someone who is not familiar with RAAL and listen to them for the first time, they maybe mistake the clarity and detail as been bright

There were quite a few cases over at avs forum where the new owner of either Sierra-2 or Sierra Tower w/ RAAL wondering what they were hearing but after a week or so, they found themselves fully in love with the RAAL

I auditioned Totem Hawk and Element Fire last year, as far as I can recall, they sounded very neutral and I liked them a lot.
Current version of Totem Hawk I believe uses SEAS aluminum dome tweeter and SCAN-SPEAK woofer, both are good units, but the main problem I have is Totem is their price, I just felt their price is way way over inflated
Also, the SEAS aluminum dome tweeter while is nice, IMO is not as good as the SEAS NrT that comes standard on Sierra Tower

Actually, if you like the sound of Totem Hawk, then you will probably love the sound of Sierra Tower w/ standard NrT tweeter (some actually prefer the NrT over RAAL, it all depend on ones preference)

[sludgeogre]

The sales guy I was dealing with told me I should avoid ribbon tweeters if i was not a fan of monitor audio/ B&w. Is there any truth to this? How does the seirra tower compair to the totem hawk?


I don't think the sales guy has heard this ribbon tweeter, because it puts everything else to shame. I know what you're talking about with how those speakers sound, it's very unnatural and odd how they sound. The RAAL is in a different league. The last thing I would call it is harsh. They're extremely smooth and detailed. They completely lack the harsh and thicker sound of most other tweeters. Mine did take a few days to break in, but after that they've been so sweet sounding and so resolving that they completely grab your attention. I've been watching movies and shows like Vikings and Ash vs The Evil Dead like an addict because of how engaging these speakers are.

As far as comparison, the only other speakers that I've heard that even come close to them are the Magnepan 1.7, which are extremely clear and have an even bigger, but not as deep, soundstage, but totally lack the dynamic punch that the Sierras are capable of. The Vandersteen, Paradigm, KEF, and Triad speakers I've heard don't even come close to how resolving, dynamic, and natural the Sierra Towers are.

[curtis]

They're extremely smooth and detailed.
When some local enthusiasts and myself first heard the Tower w/RAAL, that is what everyone said. "How can it be smoother and more detailed at the same time?"

[sludgeogre]

When some local enthusiasts and myself first heard the Tower w/RAAL, that is what everyone said. "How can it be smoother and more detailed at the same time?"

Yep, it's pretty magical. The only thing I can compare it to is the Audeze LCD-2 headphones that I have. They share the same quality in that regard. I think that the smoothness comes from the fact that the driver is not connected to anything and the detail comes from the well designed driver and extremely high magnetic field, as well as other factors, of course. Those just seem to be the things that I notice and that each driver has in common.

The thing that really knocks me out is the combination of detail, smoothness, AND dynamics, while presenting a wide and deep soundstage at the same time. Usually, when you are spending this kind of money on speakers and without a well measured and acoustically treated room, you're going to get one or two of those things and compromise on the others. The Sierra Tower is a no-compromise speaker. You really can have it all!

[curtis]

I think that the smoothness comes from the fact that the driver is not connected to anything and the detail comes from the well designed ribbon and extremely high magnetic field, as well as other factors, of course. Those just seem to be the things that I notice and that each driver has in common.

I think Dave mentioned somewhere before, when describing the measurements of the RAAL, is the lack of stored energy that eliminates harshness/brightness, but retains detail.

[davef]

The sales guy I was dealing with told me I should avoid ribbon tweeters if i was not a fan of monitor audio/ B&w. Is there any truth to this? How does the seirra tower compair to the totem hawk? I would love to demo the seirras but it is not cost effective since I live in Alberta,Canada

Hi Nik,

That is really a horrible blanket statement made by that salesman and shows his/her complete lack of industry experience. That is equivalent in saying you should avoid dome tweeters just because you didn't like the way one sounded - or avoid steak altogether just because one you received at a restaurant tasted bad...

There is an overabundance of very inexpensive mass produced so called "ribbon" tweeters out there these days. Truth is, none of these tweeters are really ribbon tweeters and they have more in common with dome tweeters than they do with a True Ribbon Tweeter.

The RAAL is a true ribbon tweeter, such that the only moving part is the actual electrical conductor itself -- there is no coil that is glued or imprinted to the diaphragm. These mass produced AMT, Planar Dynamic, Leaf often have even greater moving masses than high quality domes and they sound nothing like a True Ribbon Tweeter. They capitalize on the term "ribbon" tweeter but in all honesty, they have nothing in common with the ribbons we use. Fact is, you will never see a RAAL true ribbon tweeter in a typical brick and mortar speaker because these ribbons are extremely expensive. To this date, the only retail speakers I have seen use a RAAL 70-20XR had a retail price of over $50K / pair. No joke... Each of these tweeters is hand assembled and cost many more times what these other ribbons cost.

For lack of harshness, detail and smoothness -- nothing compares to RAAL True Ribbon Tweeters, and there is plenty of objective data to back this as well. A quick examination of both the CSD plot and polar response reveals this...

Hope this helps!

[sludgeogre]

To this date, the only retail speakers I have seen use a RAAL 70-20XR had a retail price of over $50K / pair. No joke... Each of these tweeters is hand assembled and cost many more times what these other ribbons cost.

For lack of harshness, detail and smoothness -- nothing compares to RAAL True Ribbon Tweeters, and there is plenty of objective data to back this as well. A quick examination of both the CSD plot and polar response reveals this...

This is no joke. If you look at the speakers that RAAL has made themselves, they're in the tens of thousands, and they're hand made behemoths. I've only seen a few other speakers using RAAL tweeters that are anywhere close to my price range, and many of them use much smaller models.

The whole reason I went with Ascend was:

- Well engineered and constructed cabinets that aren't just another chunk of Chinese MDF of unknown quality. This was a big deal to me, as I work for a company that makes resin (glue) for MDF, particle board, plywood, etc, and I know what it takes to make a quality product. It's not something I trust a crappy factory to make.
- Drivers from SEAS, one of the best driver companies on the planet. Only a few companies offer SEAS drivers in an affordable package, namely Tekton, but their designs are odd and the designer is kind of a lunatic. Pretty much every other company at this price point is using PVC and rubber crap, using fancy buzz words and frilly names to sell them instead of quality parts and engineering.
- The previously mentioned RAAL tweeters. Can't describe how incredible these things are. They never cease to amaze me. I'm not really wanting to listen to my LCD-2 anymore. These things are the most accurate treble representation I've ever heard. The LCD-2 is actually really treble deficient, but lush and smooth and very accurate in the bass and midbass. Between the RAAL tweeter and Rythmik subs, who needs the LCD-2 or anything else.

I researched this purchase for a year and a half. Trust me, you won't find another speaker company that makes anything even close to this. You'll find a lot of fancy marketing that will make you think you're buying something special.
-

[nino]

Appreciate all the feedback!, I always find it amazing the amount of misleading information that get thrown around at so called - Hi-end audio stores. I have come to the conclusion that its either a lack of knowledge, ignorance or simply which brand gives the highest "kick back".
Thank for you all your support on this thread!

-Speakers have been chosen! Seirra towers with Raal, it is!

[sludgeogre]

Appreciate all the feedback!, I always find it amazing the amount of misleading information that get thrown around at so called - Hi-end audio stores. I have come to the conclusion that its either a lack of knowledge, ignorance or simply which brand gives the highest "kick back".
Thank for you all your support on this thread!

-Speakers have been chosen! Seirra towers with Raal, it is!

Right on, good call!

I've found that the store owners I've talked to are very honest and open about their preferences, but they usually just haven't heard enough gear and haven't set up a lot of it properly to get a good audition. If a dealer has an audition room where they properly set up speakers and spend some time listening to them, then that's a dealer you can trust, but most of them just hook them up in a big open room, listen for five minutes, and move on. The one dealer I could actually talk to always spent a few hours auditioning everything he had in the store, his biggest limitation was only hearing big box speakers instead of all of the amazing things out there like Ascend, Salk, Philharmonic, Magnepan, etc.

[nino]

Went to another local store to audition some speakers this past weekend. Its something I really enjoy doing, just to see whats out there. The sales person this time was very knowledgeable and not pushy, it was quite pleasant.

Magenpan 1.7- Beautiful sounding planars, very much what I like listening to. The speakers just disappeared, it was magical. I cant say enough about them. Anyone else have any experience with them? Do they have a similar sound to the Sierra towers with raal?, I have been told is a similar sound, with the sierras having a more midrange presence

Revel F206/208- Overall a good sounding speaker, just didn't do it like the magenpan 1.7's for me. I guess it all comes down to personal tastes.

Rel subwoofers- I listened with the magenpan. The T-9 and the S2 /S3. I found they blended seamlessly, but have always wondered how they would compare to an Rhythmic f12( originally wanted the E15hp, but have decided it would be overkill and the box size is also a factor)

Thank you for all the input!

[sharkman]

Totem and Magnepan. Two speaker companies that have a loyal customer base, and for good reason. I've never owned planars, but those I've talked to who have really love them. They say they do need to be 2 or 3 feet off a wall for best sound though, is that how they were set up?

Totem, I do have a couple of Totem products though not the Hawks, but I can see why Totem is so highly thought of as the quality of workmanship as good as it gets, and the speaker components are quality stuff.

I do have to concur with the comments on the ribbon tweeter though. I bought the Sierra-2 sight unseen and compared them side by side to the speakers I was hoping to replace them with, the Paradigm Monitor 7, in my theater. Throwing track after track and A/B'ing them with an upscale Denon AVR. Well the Sierra's simply thrashed these decent for-the-money towers from Paradigm. They were so good I put them into the 2 channel system to compare with Paradigm Sigs that have the Beryllium dome tweeters. Again I preferred the Sierras. The vocals were more open without being bright or harsh, just clear, open and gorgeous. The highs were a tie in my mind. I paid a lot of money for those S6 Paradigms, and I was somewhat taken aback. The S6 did have superior bass, as they are towers, but I ended up selling them and putting the Sierra 2 in their place, getting some of my investment back. I've got a sub with them and couldn't be happier, spending significantly less.

With the ribbon tweeter and good electronics, for the first time, I noticed something new in my go-to audition tracks. The start of one song has a shimmering cymbal build up to the first verse, about 4 seconds. With the Raal ribbons for the first time I can hear each individual drum stick strike on the cymbal. They have so much detail it is simply unreal. I never heard that with either Paradigm speaker. Also with some Dianna Krall tracks, her voice sounded too warm, veiled I think is the word they use. I was never happy with the S6 in this regard, and the Sierras simply took it to another level. I expect that the towers would be voiced in the same way.

[nino]

Totem and Magnepan. Two speaker companies that have a loyal customer base, and for good reason. I've never owned planars, but those I've talked to who have really love them. They say they do need to be 2 or 3 feet off a wall for best sound though, is that how they were set up?

Totem, I do have a couple of Totem products though not the Hawks, but I can see why Totem is so highly thought of as the quality of workmanship as good as it gets, and the speaker components are quality stuff.

I do have to concur with the comments on the ribbon tweeter though. I bought the Sierra-2 sight unseen and compared them side by side to the speakers I was hoping to replace them with, the Paradigm Monitor 7, in my theater. Throwing track after track and A/B'ing them with an upscale Denon AVR. Well the Sierra's simply thrashed these decent for-the-money towers from Paradigm. They were so good I put them into the 2 channel system to compare with Paradigm Sigs that have the Beryllium dome tweeters. Again I preferred the Sierras. The vocals were more open without being bright or harsh, just clear, open and gorgeous. The highs were a tie in my mind. I paid a lot of money for those S6 Paradigms, and I was somewhat taken aback. The S6 did have superior bass, as they are towers, but I ended up selling them and putting the Sierra 2 in their place, getting some of my investment back. I've got a sub with them and couldn't be happier, spending significantly less.

With the ribbon tweeter and good electronics, for the first time, I noticed something new in my go-to audition tracks. The start of one song has a shimmering cymbal build up to the first verse, about 4 seconds. With the Raal ribbons for the first time I can hear each individual drum stick strike on the cymbal. They have so much detail it is simply unreal. I never heard that with either Paradigm speaker. Also with some Dianna Krall tracks, her voice sounded too warm, veiled I think is the word they use. I was never happy with the S6 in this regard, and the Sierras simply took it to another level. I expect that the towers would be voiced in the same way.

Yes, the Magenpans where 2- 2.5 feet from the wall in both directions. They were crystal clear. Something about the sound I really enjoyed. From what Ive been reading, the serrias seem to be similar to the maggies?
What totem products do you have? Would you recommend them?
Knowing the serria 2's sound as wonderful as they do, would you ever consider an upgrade to the Serria towers with Raal?

[sharkman]

For Totem I have some of their lesser stuff, 4 Lynks dipoles and the Kin sub. I would certainly consider moving up to the Sierra Towers(upgraded Raal ribbons), but I've spent so much on audio in the last 4 years, I really need to cool it! That said, I'm starting to think I'm a bookshelf guy. The simplicity of 2 drivers per speaker, properly crossed over, can really be amazing for me when the lows are routed to a sub.

Everyone has their own preferences, and knowing what they are is half the battle.

[curtis]

Yes, the Magenpans where 2- 2.5 feet from the wall in both directions. They were crystal clear. Something about the sound I really enjoyed. From what Ive been reading, the serrias seem to be similar to the maggies?
What totem products do you have? Would you recommend them?
Knowing the serria 2's sound as wonderful as they do, would you ever consider an upgrade to the Serria towers with Raal?
I have heard Magnepans on a couple of occasions, don't remember the models. While I found the soundstage huge...like a wall of sound, I didn't think they imaged very well.

[sludgeogre]

I have heard Magnepans on a couple of occasions, don't remember the models. While I found the soundstage huge...like a wall of sound, I didn't think they imaged very well.

I have a pair of Magnepan Tympani 1D's that my Dad gave me and I upgraded from. They were bi-amp'd by my Emotiva XPA-5. I really did enjoy them, but they are not very dynamic speakers, and yes, they don't image very well. The soundstage is massive on them, because they're 6 foot tall panels, but that soundstage is flat. You're just bathed and immersed in sound. It is really quite fantastic for music, but it really leaves you wanting for movies, which is what I mostly do.

I also prefer the Sierra Towers with RAALs with music because of how dynamic they are. I listen to a lot of metal and feeling the kick drums with the towers and F12 subs is awesome. My room is pretty terrible right now, but I'm in the process of applying to get a house built, and it's going to have an enclosed loft that I'll be using for a theater. Can't wait to get moved into it and get some treatments finally Right now I'm in a big open room with vaulted ceilings and skylights, but it still sounds pretty spectacular, even in a crappy room.