S-1 NrT's or S-2 ?!

[theophile]

Amazing comparison snaabster (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?6024-Sierra-2-Review-%28vs-B-amp-W-803D%29&p=51686#post51686)! I'm sure the B&W 803D's are no slouch (better not be for $10K)! But, to effectively hear the Sierra 2's as being equal or even better is a wonderful tribute to the efforts of Dave, Ascend, RAAL and Seas!!!

My background: I have formal training in classical piano and a BA degree is in instrumental education. I taught instrumental music for a few years and have attended many "acoustical concerts" in the past 30+. During the 80's, my tested hearing showed that 75% of my frequency sensitivities were at or below 0db (especially from 1,000 to 18,000hz). Today (40+ yrs later), I still test at the thresh-hold of the equipment (0db) to 10db (thanks mom). SHMBO understands I have "selective hearing"...can't hide or lie! On 2-C Stereo, In the 80's I purchased ADS 1290 Series II studio monitors w\bia-amped PA-1 modules installed. Sounds were very open, detailed and powerful, with a soundstage that jumped out into the room and beyond the wall interiors...Very Nice. Started with vinyl, but moved to CD in 1982 (NAD). I visited many audio salons and heard some very expensive and unbelievable 2 channel stereo systems. I know what acoustical piano, jazz, vocals, BB, symphonic and R&B sounds like Live and wanted those sounds in my listening room presentation...but with 4 children, family became priority for the next 35 years!

Just finally had the opportunity to set-up my 9ft x 10ft dedicated near field 2-channel intimate "Music Room" in our home! With Dave's patient professional set-up advice, I paired the new Sierra 1 NrT's (stored since 2011) with Emotiva Pre-USP1, Power-UPA2, Sub-Axiom EP500 and an oldie but goodie Player-Phillips Reference CD880.

I now have the Sierra's 6ft apart (8in. away from the 9ft setup wall) and about 8ft from my listening position (.75 ratio-see pic). Due to the near field listening position, I have no toe-in of the Sierras. The small room size with entry and furniture restrictions doesn't allow me much lead way in opening the speakers up or relocating the electronics and sub, sigh...oh well. These past 2 weeks has been a long process and follow up listening sessions to equipment and speaker arrangements, cleaning up equipment boxes, removing a large exterior cabinet enclosure, stabilizing the Sierra stands, trying different interconnects\speaker wires, testing sound with old Sony receiver (vs Emotiva Separates=Big Improvement) and even discovering that the 28 yr old Philips CD player sounds better than the new Emotiva ERC-2 CD player (now going to oldest son)!

HOWEVER, this current and swift journey into audio bliss has been rewarding and worth it! I'm now at 100% satisfaction with the Glorious Sounds coming forth from the Sierra NrT's!!! :) Wow, Wow...I'm rediscovering my instrumental and vocal CD libraries with stunning R&B, Jazz, Acapella, Big Band and Orchestral recordings! Soundstage precision, air and dimentionality extends well beyond my 9ft listening wall confinement, both with lateral accuracy and hall\studio ambient depth! Attacks, delays, harmonics, overtones, character, tonalities and timbre are all very realistic and alive in instrumentals, vocals and percussion. It seems there is no audible end to the liquid, smooth and very open top end, the midrange clarity, resonances and resolve, and now, the articulate, natural and quick upper and lower bass (w\o sub)! Overall, superlative descriptions such as Engaging, Emotional, Live, Real and of course, Fidelity all come to mind (and Ears)! I do have some bad recordings, but the great stuff is jaw dropping and mind blowing! It's the Best I've ever heard from any of my recordings, my previous stereo, or any I've Experienced before in audio specialty\salon stores (likes of B&W, Rogers, Spendor, Paradigm, Vandersteen, etc...)...Period!!! :cool:

Other than on-site live music performances, It's difficult to imagine any listening room sound reproduction being much better! But, I've read about and learned much concerning the Sierra 2's, their design work and ultimate successes hear (pun intended)! I'm certainly not ready to throw my Sierra 1's out (just yet), but would love to hear comments\experiences from previous owners who scaled up to the newest and greatest S2 design. As I've stated my new findings and appreciation for the above NrT's, do you think in my intimate music room, with my current electronics and my S1-NrT satisfaction, would a step up to the Sierra-2 could\would make a substantial improvement as I heard from my old 80's set-up to now???

Any comments, suggestions or recommendations will be greatly appreciated!

Ted

[theophile]

...I'm certainly not ready to throw my Sierra 1's out (just yet), but would love to hear comments\experiences from previous owners who scaled up to the newest and greatest S2 design. As I've stated my new findings and appreciation for the above NrT's, do you think in my intimate music room, with my current electronics and my S1-NrT satisfaction, would a step up to the Sierra-2 could\would make a substantial improvement...???

Any comments, suggestions or recommendations will be greatly appreciated!

Ted

Any Sierra 1 to 2 owners (either through upgrade or direct comparison) care to give some feedback...pros or cons...please!

Ted

[curtis]

I owned the Sierra-1's for a long time...I bought the second set sold.

I listened to the Sierra-1NrT at Ascend. I liked it, but not enough for me to make the upgrade a priority.

When I heard the Sierra-2...I was hooked. The sound is different than the Sierra-1. The transients and detail stand out more with the 2, without sounding the least bit harsh. I would call the Sierra-1 "polite" and the the Sierra-2 "honest"...if that makes sense.

[natetg57]

Any Sierra 1 to 2 owners (either through upgrade or direct comparison) care to give some feedback...pros or cons...please!

Ted

I haven't listened to the NRT's but I am super happy with the upgrade going from 1's to 2's. The change is a clearer, more realistic, more dynamic sound. I have no doubt that you would hear an improvement upgrading to the 2's, but I can't say if you'll consider it a slight improvement or a huge jump. Another thing to consider would be getting a few sound treatments for your room as well as pulling the speakers out from the wall some, if possible. That might be a bigger 'bang for buck' upgrade.

[theophile]

I listened to the Sierra-1NrT at Ascend. I liked it, but not enough for me to make the upgrade a priority.

When I heard the Sierra-2...I was hooked. The sound is different than the Sierra-1. The transients and detail stand out more with the 2, without sounding the least bit harsh. I would call the Sierra-1 "polite" and the the Sierra-2 "honest"...if that makes sense.

Curtis,

Thanks for your quick response!

I no doubt and believe going from the S1 to the S2 is a big step in the "real\live acoustic" sound reproduction direction! What you state makes sense...probably like lifting a veil off the S1 speaker, creating much more openness, better focus in imaging and stage presence and clarity of details in tonality and transients, from top on down to the bottom registers!

As per my review, I'm hearing so much more in my recordings than in the past (thanks Ascend), but then again I stepped right into the S1 NrT upgrade and never heard the original Sierra 1 design. From what I gather from your comments, you seem to be stating that a step up from the S1 NrT's to the Sierra 2's would be a greater increase in performance than what you heard with the step up for the S1 to the S1 NrT?

Not wanting to assume or misrepresent your experience, but I don't want to pull the plug on a set of S2's and discover just a marginal increase in realistic sound reproduction from what I currently have.

Thanks again for your assistance,

Ted

[theophile]

I haven't listened to the NRT's but I am super happy with the upgrade going from 1's to 2's. The change is a clearer, more realistic, more dynamic sound. I have no doubt that you would hear an improvement upgrading to the 2's, but I can't say if you'll consider it a slight improvement or a huge jump. Another thing to consider would be getting a few sound treatments for your room as well as pulling the speakers out from the wall some, if possible. That might be a bigger 'bang for buck' upgrade.

Got it Nate, thanks for your comments!

Guess I'm really looking for S1 NrT to S2 upgrade comparisons, and would it be a substantial or just a slight improvement. :confused:

Unfortunately in my 90sf "music room", if I move the right speaker out another 1-2" from the 9' wall, I'm at greater risk of it getting knocked over too easily (room entry way foyer is in that right corner).

Fortunately, I can not detect any room nodes or dead spots, All sounds pretty darn clear, uncluttered, defined, balanced, tight and very extended on extreme highs and lows. However, I have never used room treatments and any suggestions \ info on products that could possible improve the sound that I do have would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Ted

[cynan]

I'm currently contemplating upgrading my L/C/R Sierra-1 NrTs to Sierra-2s (or maybe even the towers with RAAL + Sierra 2 center).

I think the main improvement would be somewhat better detail afforded by the RAAL tweeter and perhaps a bit better detail in the mids with the new SEAS woofer. As far as voicing (ie, how forward or laid back), I think they are somewhere in the middle of the Sierra 1 and 1 Nrt.

From what I have been able to glean, a quick summary on the differences between the Sierra options are that the original 1s were voiced a bit toward the laid back of neutral, producing a bit more of a warmer, smooth/lush sound. The NrTs were voiced a bit on the forward side, providing a bit more energy to the mid treble and treble. The Sierra-2s are purportedly somewhere in between (ie, the most neutrally-voiced Sierra Ascend has made.)

Note that the above are in relative terms. I consider both the Sierra 1 and 1 NrT to be fairly neutral speakers.

In contrast to Nate, I did the upgrade from Sierra-1 to Nrt. I found that for HT, rock and higher energy acoustic music, the NrTs were a bit more lively and dynamic sounding. However, for most classical and mellow acoustic/jazz, etc (particularly strings and horns) the more laid back voicing of the original Sierras were probably a bit more appealing due to the slightly smoother treble. I am inferring from what I've read that the Sierra-2 is as close to a "best of both worlds" as you can get, the less forward voicing of the Sierra-2 relative to the NrT made up for by the improved resolving/detail of the RAAL.

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone can tell you if the difference is worth it to you. Most probably can't even tell you objectively if the difference was truly worth the cost to them due to confirmation bias, etc... On the other hand, if you don't "upgrade" then you'll never know. :D

[theophile]

I'm currently contemplating upgrading my L/C/R Sierra-1 NrTs to Sierra-2s (or maybe even the towers with RAAL + Sierra 2 center).

I think the main improvement would be somewhat better detail afforded by the RAAL tweeter and perhaps a bit better detail in the mids with the new SEAS woofer. As far as voicing (ie, how forward or laid back), I think they are somewhere in the middle of the Sierra 1 and 1 Nrt.

From what I have been able to glean, a quick summary on the differences between the Sierra options are that the original 1s were voiced a bit toward the laid back of neutral, producing a bit more of a warmer, smooth/lush sound. The NrTs were voiced a bit on the forward side, providing a bit more energy to the mid treble and treble. The Sierra-2s are purportedly somewhere in between (ie, the most neutrally-voiced Sierra Ascend has made.)

Note that the above are in relative terms. I consider both the Sierra 1 and 1 NrT to be fairly neutral speakers.

In contrast to Nate, I did the upgrade from Sierra-1 to Nrt. I found that for HT, rock and higher energy acoustic music, the NrTs were a bit more lively and dynamic sounding. However, for most classical and mellow acoustic/jazz, etc (particularly strings and horns) the more laid back voicing of the original Sierras were probably a bit more appealing due to the slightly smoother treble. I am inferring from what I've read that the Sierra-2 is as close to a "best of both worlds" as you can get, the less forward voicing of the Sierra-2 relative to the NrT made up for by the improved resolving/detail of the RAAL.

Unfortunately, I don't think anyone can tell you if the difference is worth it to you. Most probably can't even tell you objectively if the difference was truly worth the cost to them due to confirmation bias, etc... On the other hand, if you don't "upgrade" then you'll never know. :D

Thanks for your comments Cynan!

Seems you and I are in a similar boat, so to speak. I did get to talk with Dave and his take on a S1 NrT to S2 upgrade was very close to yours. Voicing between the S1 and S1 NrT, but with wider, more focused imaging, deeper sound stage and a more effortless top end \ midrange that is extremely natural. When I do pull the plug on the S2's, I'll keep the S1 NrT's for a direct (in-my-room) comparison and report where I'll go from there (either return the S2's or sell the S1 NrT's).

I Love the Gloss Dark Cherry finish of my S1's, just wish the S2's were still available in that finish. Oh well, the #1 goal is the same and achievavble, get the best 2-channel audio out of my recordings...is it Live or is it Memorex (now I'm telling my age)! :o

Ted

[Mag_Neato]

As someone who has had them all, let me sum it up like this:

The Sierra-1's are excellent in their own right. The NrT upgrade "Enhanced" them by creating more detail and air in the treble, while pushing the mids more to the front. The highs from the NrT dome never seemed to compress dynamically or lose composure. I was not sure that they could be significantly improved upon by the RAAL, but I was really wanting to experience what the reports were saying about the realism, super detailed without any harshness and imaging the RAALs could provide.

When I first started listening to the -2 upgraded Sierra's I had to concentrate on the sound. The highs "appeared" to have less energy and sparkle than the NrT's. After a few tracks of music I was familiar with it became obvious what was going on. While the highs seemed to lack those qualities, the fact is that they were giving me all, and more of, the detail of the NrT's yet did not impart any added flavor. They sounded so lifelike that you really have to wrap your brain around the sound at first. I have always had dome tweeter speakers so this was a whole new experience.

The other half of the Sierra-2 equation is the new SEAS woofer. Working together with the RAAL is a thing of sonic beauty.

I know the differences tend to get downplayed somewhat, but if the NrT can be called an "Enhancement" to the -1's, the -2's are in another league!

[natetg57]

Thanks for your comments Cynan!

Seems you and I are in a similar boat, so to speak. I did get to talk with Dave and his take on a S1 NrT to S2 upgrade was very close to yours. Voicing between the S1 and S1 NrT, but with wider, more focused imaging, deeper sound stage and a more effortless top end \ midrange that is extremely natural. When I do pull the plug on the S2's, I'll keep the S1 NrT's for a direct (in-my-room) comparison and report where I'll go from there (either return the S2's or sell the S1 NrT's).

I Love the Gloss Dark Cherry finish of my S1's, just wish the S2's were still available in that finish. Oh well, the #1 goal is the same and achievavble, get the best 2-channel audio out of my recordings...is it Live or is it Memorex (now I'm telling my age)! :o

Ted

What about buying two of the Sierra-2 upgrade kits? That way you can keep the cabinets you like. Install the kit in just one speaker to start so you can easily switch back and forth from NRT to S-2. If you don't love the S-2 upgrade, return shipping would be a lot less for just the kits.

[theophile]

What about buying two of the Sierra-2 upgrade kits? That way you can keep the cabinets you like. Install the kit in just one speaker to start so you can easily switch back and forth from NRT to S-2. If you don't love the S-2 upgrade, return shipping would be a lot less for just the kits.

Thought of this Nate. Although I really like the Gloss DC finish, the Satin DC still looks real nice and if I'm going to go with the S2's, want a full OEM warranty (my S1's only have 2 years left). Besides with my luck, I'd mess up the gloss finish when changing out the components! :rolleyes:

Ted

[theophile]

As someone who has had them all, let me sum it up like this:

The Sierra-1's are excellent in their own right. The NrT upgrade "Enhanced" them by creating more detail and air in the treble, while pushing the mids more to the front. The highs from the NrT dome never seemed to compress dynamically or lose composure. I was not sure that they could be significantly improved upon by the RAAL, but I was really wanting to experience what the reports were saying about the realism, super detailed without any harshness and imaging the RAALs could provide.

When I first started listening to the -2 upgraded Sierra's I had to concentrate on the sound. The highs "appeared" to have less energy and sparkle than the NrT's. After a few tracks of music I was familiar with it became obvious what was going on. While the highs seemed to lack those qualities, the fact is that they were giving me all, and more of, the detail of the NrT's yet did not impart any added flavor. They sounded so lifelike that you really have to wrap your brain around the sound at first. I have always had dome tweeter speakers so this was a whole new experience.

The other half of the Sierra-2 equation is the new SEAS woofer. Working together with the RAAL is a thing of sonic beauty.

I know the differences tend to get downplayed somewhat, but if the NrT can be called an "Enhancement" to the -1's, the -2's are in another league!

Ed,

Thanks, just the first hand experience details I was looking for!

I too have always owned\used and have been satisfied with domes (aka: ADS 1290 Series II Studio Monitors). My S1 NrT's are such a startling improvement in "Any Dome System" I've ever heard, that I still can't imagine the S2's being in another league, but don't doubt they are. :D

Unless the world ends tomorrow, I'll be auditioning the Sierra 2 RAAL\Seas Monitors in my own intimate 90sf music room. I've a strong feeling that I'll be offering my S1 NrT's for sale to a good home, at a great price!! :cool:

Ted

[curtis]

As someone who has had them all, let me sum it up like this:

The Sierra-1's are excellent in their own right. The NrT upgrade "Enhanced" them by creating more detail and air in the treble, while pushing the mids more to the front. The highs from the NrT dome never seemed to compress dynamically or lose composure. I was not sure that they could be significantly improved upon by the RAAL, but I was really wanting to experience what the reports were saying about the realism, super detailed without any harshness and imaging the RAALs could provide.

When I first started listening to the -2 upgraded Sierra's I had to concentrate on the sound. The highs "appeared" to have less energy and sparkle than the NrT's. After a few tracks of music I was familiar with it became obvious what was going on. While the highs seemed to lack those qualities, the fact is that they were giving me all, and more of, the detail of the NrT's yet did not impart any added flavor. They sounded so lifelike that you really have to wrap your brain around the sound at first. I have always had dome tweeter speakers so this was a whole new experience.

The other half of the Sierra-2 equation is the new SEAS woofer. Working together with the RAAL is a thing of sonic beauty.

I know the differences tend to get downplayed somewhat, but if the NrT can be called an "Enhancement" to the -1's, the -2's are in another league!
I'm pretty much in agreement with Mag on this.

[theophile]

Interesting Sierra 1 NrT development HERE (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?6228-Cut-the-Cord-!!!) ...S2's In-the-House purchase may have to wait after out vacation in June!?

Ted

[theophile]

With the Memorial day B-stock sale, I ordered and received the Sierra-2's in PB in early June. The exterior box displayed typical shipping handling wear, but internal box and cabinets were in great shape. As others have stated, a quick look over created the question, were these really B-stock cabinets, they look fantastic. A closer examination with an angled bright light reveled an extremely light scratch on the top of each cabinet and a very light scuff mark on the bottom of each cabinet, all totally invisible with normal room lighting. Cosmetically, I'd consider these perfect and a great value!

I invested around 50 hours of break-in time and listening in my intimate music room. I did find the S2 RAAL's had to be aimed forward in the vertical plane for the top end\midrange to open up properly (limited vertical dispersion). Sitting level on my non-adjustable tubular 31" metal stands, I was loosing too much treble as the woofers were closer to my ear level. I ended up achieving optimum listening with the S2's atop isolation pads that angled them down 4 degrees, bringing the RAAL's into ear alignment, opening up the top end very nicely. 25" to 28" stands would have placed leveled S2 RAAL's for optimum tweeter listening positions, but these stands are what I was had to work with. As with the S1 Nrt's, to achieve the most coherent holographic center image along with the widest and deepest soundstage, no toe in was needed (spaced 6ft apart).

With a host of well recorded musical genre (vocals, orchestra, jazz ensembles, etc.) in my listening environment (9'x10'x11'), and with my auditory experiences and hearing capabilities, I believe I came away with an accurate assessment of their musical prowess (for me). Firstly, congrats to Dave in creating one of the most natural transducer reproduction systems I've ever heard. From their excellent bass through their ultrasonic top end, balance, coherency and imaging are supreme and after looking at the included response curves after these extended listening sessions, I can understand why...an almost ruler flat FR from 200 to 30K hz! They offer an extremely smooth, delicate and effortless presentation that is Always Musical. At less than comfortable playback levels, the S2's hold their composure very well while handling dynamical peaks with ease. Overall, I consider the S2's to be one of the most accurate monitors in the audio marketplace, competing with bookshelf's costing 5 to 10x more on the retail market, truly a great achievement!!

Then why did I request an RA# for these auditory jewels? I have found that my music room acoustics (pretty dead), my listening taste (natural ambient recordings), my hearing capabilities (or lack there of) and possibly my dome dispersion preferences all combine to create greater pin-point imaging, a deeper and wider sound-stage and most importantly, a more natural 3D Open Holographic Auditory Image (equal with eyes closed Or wide open) when listening with the Sierra 1 NrT's! Even though the NrT's have dips (@400hz) and peaks (@2.3K and 14K) and are not ruler flat, their FR anomalies seem to compensate my room and hearing deficiencies to create a very wide and deep sound-stage that better presents the ultimate illusion of Live Emotional & Involving Music. The increase in realism is close between the two Sierra's, however for me in my particular music room, the S1 NrT's clearly are more open and present the most Natural Timbre of vocals, strings and instruments that I have ever heard!!! Having the musical education, teaching and exposure of live performances, I feel I have a very keen and sensitive feeling for the naturalness in recorded music. The Sierra 2's are simply a phenomenal and accurate transducer that I feel under most other environments and with other listeners and music, certainly could have the edge over the Sierra 1 NrT's...just not for me at this time and in my space.

I greatly appreciate this opportunity from Dave and AA to audition the Sierra 2's with my music and in my environment. Also thanks to all the members who added their thoughts and experiences to assist me in getting the Sierra 2's in-the-house. The AA business model is truly a win\win scenario for all of us music lovers!

Ted