Considering Ascend with RAAL Tweeter

[BilboBaggins]

Hello,

I'm considering purchasing a pair of Ascend speakers with the RAAL tweeter and the center with RAAL tweeter. I was going to purchase the B&W CM10s2 and its matching center, which I heard at Best Buy, but my curiosity about Ascend based on what I've read at AVS stopped me short.

Has anyone heard both the CM10s2 and either the Ascend Towers with RAAL tweeter or Sierra 2s? If so, can you comment on how they compare? Imaging, soundstage, dialog in movies? How about the center?

Also, if I am going to get a subwoofer, would there be any reason to go with the more expensive towers over the 2s?

Thank you.

[Mag_Neato]

I have not heard the B&W's you make reference to, but I did own the original 602's which had the gold colored metal dome tweeter with plastic lens ring. They were very dynamic but those domes.....my ears paid the price. Not saying the ones you refer to are the same, but when I replaced the 602's with my first pair of Ascend's.....original CBM-170's, I was a happy camper. Not only were the ear bleeding highs gone, but overall balance was much better and the imaging improved.

I now have Sierra-2's and will not be replacing them anytime soon. You've read all the stuff on them most likely so I will not go into a list of virtues. With a sub they are as much speaker as most people will likely ever need.

Having said that, the towers employ more drivers and a dedicated, custom made midrange. They will have more mid clarity, detail and power. The larger RAAL tweeter will have more dynamic ability, and the dual woofers will provide deeper, more powerful bass. If a money landfall came my way I would have a pair. On their own, the Sierra-2's are among the finest monitor speakers out there. Next to the Sierra RAAL towers you will learn the differences. Not a huge difference from those who have heard both, but enough to justify the extra cost.

So, If space and budget are not an issue I say go for the towers.

[rsmt2000]

Hello,

I'm considering purchasing a pair of Ascend speakers with the RAAL tweeter and the center with RAAL tweeter. I was going to purchase the B&W CM10s2 and its matching center, which I heard at Best Buy, but my curiosity about Ascend based on what I've read at AVS stopped me short.

Has anyone heard both the CM10s2 and either the Ascend Towers with RAAL tweeter or Sierra 2s? If so, can you comment on how they compare? Imaging, soundstage, dialog in movies? How about the center?

Also, if I am going to get a subwoofer, would there be any reason to go with the more expensive towers over the 2s?

Thank you.

I have BW CM9 with CMC2 ( the better center channel at at time) in a 7.1 set up downstairs and Ascend towers with RAAL in my family area mostly for music and an occasional movie.

I find BW has their signature sound which is on warm..er side and not neutral. The thing that I really mot like much with them is the tweeter. Having listened to the RAAL which is open and airy, there is no way I like the metal/dome tweeter of BW. I think the upgrade in CM series 2 is that they moved the tweeter to the top side of the speaker and enhanced the bass from the previous series. I listened to CM 10 as well and compared to my CM9s and found the most difference in bass and not treble. Since anyway I am running my BWs with a Rythmik F15, I did not think the upgrade to CM10s is justified.

On the Sierra towers with RAAL, as I said RAAL is the game changer. The bass is also too tight and it's unbelievable that 2 small woofers are putting that much clean bass out. For my smallish family area I don't have a sub for now but itching to add a sub or two soon to beef up the low end.

Finally Audio is purely subjective. What one loves just sounds ok to others. I have had some people prefer CM9s and some prefer the towers. I find that most newbies pick BWs as they are instantly pulled to their signature sound while people with some audio experience prefer towers with RAAL ( in my observation at my place)

[BilboBaggins]

Thanks a lot for your replies.

Do you think the 5.25" woofers are an issue? The other towers I've been looking at have 6.5" woofers. Do towers with 5.25" woofers output noticeably less bass than towers with 6.5" woofers?

Also, do you know how the RAAL tweeters compare to a horn loaded compression driver?

[curtis]

Do you think the 5.25" woofers are an issue? The other towers I've been looking at have 6.5" woofers. Do towers with 5.25" woofers output noticeably less bass than towers with 6.5" woofers?

Diameter is only one aspect of the design. All things being equal, yes, a bigger woofer moves more air...but all things are not equal.



Also, do you know how the RAAL tweeters compare to a horn loaded compression driver?
Two different worlds. If you like horn loaded compression driver tweeters, the RAAL is not for you. The RAAL on the otherhand will have more detail but not call attention to itself.

[BilboBaggins]

Thanks, curtis. I haven't heard ribbon tweeters before, so I may like them more for all I know.

Do you happen to know if Ascend sales is open today?

[curtis]

Thanks, curtis. I haven't heard ribbon tweeters before, so I may like them more for all I know.

Do you happen to know if Ascend sales is open today?
In my listening, horns to the RAAL is a large difference and a change in taste may take a lot of listening and comparison of both.

I also want caution, like with all dome tweeters, soft and metal, there are great ones, bad ones, and everything in between. Ribbons are the same way. I have heard ribbons that do not sound good to me...at all, so I was skeptical of RAAL first, but RAALs are the best ribbon I have heard...and my favorite of any tweeter I have heard.

I don't know if Ascend is open today or not.

[BilboBaggins]

In my listening, horns to the RAAL it a large difference and a change in taste may take a lot of listening and comparison of both.

I also want caution, like with all dome tweeters, soft and metal, there are great ones, bad ones, and everything in between. Ribbons are the same way. I have heard ribbons that do not sound good to me...at all, so I was skeptical of RAAL first, but RAALs are the best ribbon I have heard...and my favorite of any tweeter I have heard.

I don't know if Ascend is open today or not.

I've never owned speakers with a horn compression driver, I just heard them in a demo recently which was why I was curious how they compare. For that reason, a change in taste likely wouldn't be required. :)

Does a French horn such as those used in the Star Wars theme song (I think) still sound like a French horn with that... grit and texture with the RAAL tweeter not calling attention to itself?

Regarding asking if you knew whether sales was open today, I thought you might be affiliated since it says you're the forum founder.

[curtis]

I've never owned speakers with a horn compression driver, I just heard them in a demo recently which was why I was curious how they compare. For that reason, a change in taste likely wouldn't be required. :)

Does a French horn such as those used in the Star Wars theme song (I think) still sound like a French horn with that... grit and texture with the RAAL tweeter not calling attention to itself?

Regarding asking if you knew whether sales was open today, I thought you might be affiliated since it says you're the forum founder.
I think the RAAL portrays everything accurately. I also think that grit of the french horn comes from midrange reproduction more that the tweeter.

A lot of people think I am affiliated. I did start the forum before it was affiliated with Ascend....but Ascend long ago, decided to make it their own. :) Now I just volunteer moderate, and even then, Dave does most of that.

[BilboBaggins]

How many watts would a receiver (avr) need to have to adequately power a pair of towers, a horizon center, and four 170ses on surround duty? I think the ratings most of them give are 2 channel and you get 75% of that when you hook up other channels, etc. Would the Marantz 6010 with 110 watts per channel (when driving 2 channels) be enough to power the 7.1 system described?

[rsmt2000]

Dave suggests that you can play the towers with 50 watts per channel too. I myself was using a marantz 1603 with 50/watts. I find it OK for music ( 2 channel ) but straining for movies even without a center channel. I am also trying to add a couple of rythmiks to this set up.

Speaking of horns, I want to explore that part of the world for a dedicated home theatre set up. There is some awesomeness in leaving the articulate world and just enjoy dynamic sound close or at reference level.lol.

[BilboBaggins]

Dave suggests that you can play the towers with 50 watts per channel too. I myself was using a marantz 1603 with 50/watts. I find it OK for music ( 2 channel ) but straining for movies even without a center channel. I am also trying to add a couple of rythmiks to this set up.

Speaking of horns, I want to explore that part of the world for a dedicated home theatre set up. There is some awesomeness in leaving the articulate world and just enjoy dynamic sound close or at reference level.lol.

A few people keep trying to direct me toward horns instead of Ascend with RAAL. My question is, if the Ascend with RAAL sound incredible with music, why wouldn't they sound equally incredible with movies/games/home theater?

Are the Ascend towers not "dynamic"? What does that even mean?

[curtis]

A few people keep trying to direct me toward horns instead of Ascend with RAAL. My question is, if the Ascend with RAAL sound incredible with music, why wouldn't they sound equally incredible with movies/games/home theater?

Are the Ascend towers not "dynamic"? What does that even mean?
Dynamics are lowest level of sound a speaker can make to the loudest. A more dynamic speaker has a wider gap between those two.

Home theater buffs that like it loud, don't usually appreciate the nuances in music. Horn compression tweeters are very efficient and can play very loud. What many people don't realize is how loud they really listen to music or movies, and most never play anything louder than a good non-horn tweeter can play.

[BilboBaggins]

Dynamics are lowest level of sound a speaker can make to the loudest. A more dynamic speaker has a wider gap between those two.

Home theater buffs that like it loud, don't usually appreciate the nuances in music. Horn compression tweeters are very efficient and can play very loud. What many people don't realize is how loud they really listen to music or movies, and most never play anything louder than a good non-horn tweeter can play.

Thanks, Curtis! Do the Ascend towers and 170se have enough dynamics for a great home theater experience?

[curtis]

Thanks, Curtis! Do the Ascend towers and 170se have enough dynamics for a great home theater experience?
That is a subjective question...for me, they have more than enough.

I use Sierra-2's and HTM-200SE...which are less dynamic, and they even have enough for me, and I like my movies fairly loud.

[davef]

How many watts would a receiver (avr) need to have to adequately power a pair of towers, a horizon center, and four 170ses on surround duty? I think the ratings most of them give are 2 channel and you get 75% of that when you hook up other channels, etc. Would the Marantz 6010 with 110 watts per channel (when driving 2 channels) be enough to power the 7.1 system described?

There are too many variables to give a firm answer for this. How far back are you seated from the speakers? What volume levels do you like to listen at? Is your room lively or well damped?

That said, for the majority of listeners, 110 watts is plenty and you would likely never come close to actually using all of this power.