Outlaw Audio 5000 Amp>Sierra 2 Speakers

[Blutarsky]

I hooked up my new Outlaw Amp today and am overwhelmingly pleased. I had been driving my Sierra-2 LCRs with my Yamaha Aventage RX A1010 and really didn't appreciate the RAAL tweeters. I finally figured out that they were clipping at moderate to high levels. (Boy, do the RAALs reproduce clipping well)
http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000
The Outlaw has to be the best $600 I ever spent on audio. The S-2s developed better bass and the tweeters bloom all the way up to -10db volume with no clipping.
Fortunately, my Yammie had pre amp outs and a 12v trigger
You are cheating yourselves to think a receiver will drive the S-2s to their abilities. The Sierra 2 speakers are astonishing, as good as my Usher Tiny Dancers were.
B.

[benj805]

Your Yamaha is specified to deliver 110W with 2 channels driven. The amplifier is specified to deliver 120W at 8 ohms and 180W at 4 ohms. With less than double the power output, you should get less than a 3dB increase in SPL. I wouldn't expect this to be very noticeable. In addition, unless your room is huge, or you are sitting very far away, I wouldn't expect you to be anywhere near clipping levels at -10dB. I don't doubt that you hear an improvement, but I wonder if any of the other variables changed in your system or room. I am quite interested because I previously had contemplated my next upgrade in my Sierra 2 system to be an external amplifier, but was convinced not to after working the numbers.



I hooked up my new Outlaw Amp today and am overwhelmingly pleased. I had been driving my Sierra-2 LCRs with my Yamaha Aventage RX A1010 and really didn't appreciate the RAAL tweeters. I finally figured out that they were clipping at moderate to high levels. (Boy, do the RAALs reproduce clipping well)
http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000
The Outlaw has to be the best $600 I ever spent on audio. The S-2s developed better bass and the tweeters bloom all the way up to -10db volume with no clipping.
Fortunately, my Yammie had pre amp outs and a 12v trigger
You are cheating yourselves to think a receiver will drive the S-2s to their abilities. The Sierra 2 speakers are astonishing, as good as my Usher Tiny Dancers were.
B.

[Blutarsky]

The Yamaha was clipping in 2 ch mode. I think receivers are usually over rated for amp power. Unless you buy an Anthem or NAD, etc. for mega bucks.

The Yamaha puts out 65 WPC X 5 in surround mode. Not enough, in my opinion, to drive the S-2 speakers well. The Outlaw weighs 50 lbs and puts out minimum 125W X 5 high channels....Something is going on! Seriously sounds better now Top to bottom.

I think an inexpensive receiver with Pre-amp outs coupled with the Outlaw to be a great option for you. Get one with a DC trigger.

The Outlaw is a very high value upgrade. I am impressed enough to share this.

[N Boros]

Your Yamaha is specified to deliver 110W with 2 channels driven. The amplifier is specified to deliver 120W at 8 ohms and 180W at 4 ohms. With less than double the power output, you should get less than a 3dB increase in SPL. I wouldn't expect this to be very noticeable. In addition, unless your room is huge, or you are sitting very far away, I wouldn't expect you to be anywhere near clipping levels at -10dB. I don't doubt that you hear an improvement, but I wonder if any of the other variables changed in your system or room. I am quite interested because I previously had contemplated my next upgrade in my Sierra 2 system to be an external amplifier, but was convinced not to after working the numbers.


The Outlaw amp was measured as delivering 135 Watts for all 5 channels driven continuously (one of the most difficult tests) into 8 ohms with under 0.1% THD+N.

http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000/measurements

I doubt the Yamaha will be able to match that. I think most receivers are measured with one or two channels driven at 1 kHz and there may not even be a restriction on how much distortion is allowed in the measurement.

The Outlaw amp seems like it performs very well for a very reasonable price. The reviewer, Gene over at Audioholics, said that it did an excellent job driving his difficult to drive speakers. That said, the Sierra 2s do present a difficult load for any competently made AVR. The original poster did say that he noticed these differences, when the speakers were pushed hard at high volume levels. So I think what he is saying seems to make sense.

[Blutarsky]

After years of chasing expensive hi end audio, I decided to look for the best gear that I could find for my money. Ascend speakers are the anchors of my system. Still, they require quality gear upstream from them.
I am busily patting myself on the back for finding values like OPPO, Ascend, Blue Jeans, Outlaw, etc. to build a system that punches way above its weight for less than $10,000.
Good Sound, indeed.
B.

[davef]

That said, the Sierra 2s do present a difficult load for any competently made AVR. The original poster did say that he noticed these differences, when the speakers were pushed hard at high volume levels. So I think what he is saying seems to make sense.

Just a minor correction, the Sierra-2 are an exceptionally easy load for any AVR. Impedance never drops below 6 ohms, and remains well above 8 ohms for 5 of the 8 octaves the speaker will reproduce. In addition, the phase angle (reactance) of the speaker is very benign. This speaker is an exceptionally easy 8 ohm load.

That said, the RAAL ribbon is capable of reproducing details that most tweeters simply can not reproduce. If you are playing them loudly and your receiver is reaching its headroom limitations (ie - clipping or the onset of compression) - you will hear it...

When matching the Sierra-2 to amplification, it is important to consider your listening distance in combination with your typical volume levels to determine if your amp/receiver might be approaching its limitations.

[N Boros]

Just a minor correction, the Sierra-2 are an exceptionally easy load for any AVR. Impedance never drops below 6 ohms, and remains well above 8 ohms for 5 of the 8 octaves the speaker will reproduce. In addition, the phase angle (reactance) of the speaker is very benign. This speaker is an exceptionally easy 8 ohm load.

That said, the RAAL ribbon is capable of reproducing details that most tweeters simply can not reproduce. If you are playing them loudly and your receiver is reaching its headroom limitations (ie - clipping or the onset of compression) - you will hear it...

When matching the Sierra-2 to amplification, it is important to consider your listening distance in combination with your typical volume levels to determine if your amp/receiver might be approaching its limitations.

Thanks for the correction. I meant to type "do NOT present a difficult load for any competently made AVR".

[Blutarsky]

Thanks' for weighing in Dave.
I am certainly not the most technical person. I noticed brittle sounds at -25 dB using my Yamaha. The Outlaw is smooth at -15 dB . Also, I can now hear the faint brush cymbals in the background of track One on the "Jazz From the Pawn Shop" SACD that I now use to "test" tweeters.
The S-2s are so good that they can be taken to another level with better amplification that most AVRs can provide.
B.

[davef]

Thanks' for weighing in Dave.
I am certainly not the most technical person. I noticed brittle sounds at -25 dB using my Yamaha. The Outlaw is smooth at -15 dB . Also, I can now hear the faint brush cymbals in the background of track One on the "Jazz From the Pawn Shop" SACD that I now use to "test" tweeters.
The S-2s are so good that they can be taken to another level with better amplification that most AVRs can provide.
B.

Jazz From the Pawnshop is one of my reference CD's :) It is unbelievable on the Sierra-2 and Ribbon Towers....

[Blutarsky]

It was recommended to me by Dina. What a recording! I am listening to music nonstop since inserting my new amp.
B.