New to Ascend - how do they compare to Paradigm?

[Joe12pack]

I've been out of the speaker markets for a long long time. My current pair of Paradigm Titans from my college days (almost 20 years ago) finally died and I am in need of new speakers. I auditioned some bookshelf speakers (mini-monitor 7 and Prestige 15B for $600 and $1600 per pair respectively) and they sound very good to me.

However I don't like the fact that the mini-monitor 7's are made in China. Seems like Paradigm has sold out. The Prestige 15B are made in Canada. After reading various reviews I found myself on this site and the reviews have seemed amazing to me. I am wondering if the Sierra 1's would be fine for me? Or should I just go with the Sierra 2's? My receiver is just as old as my paradigm's:

Onkyo TX-SV424
6 Ohms Front 2x50 watt
8 0hms Center 1x50 watt
8 0hms Rear 2x15 watt

At some point in the future I imagine I have to upgrade.

I use the speakers mainly for my computer and watching movies through my computer but would like a nice pair of speakers that I could use in my living room if I decided to do that.

thanks!
-David

[FirstReflect]

It's so tricky to try and describe sound or a comparison of different speakers just using words in text. I can offer you some very quick and easy answers:

"Would the Sierra-1 be fine for me?"

Yes. Yes, they would. They are objectively very good speakers that provide flat on-axis frequency response, even off-axis frequency response, very good transient response, and an easy load for just about any amplifier to drive.

"Should I just go with the Sierra-2?"

If you can easily afford them, yes.

Out of all the speakers you mentioned, you have not heard a speaker as refined as the Sierra-2. It would be a new experience for you, and if you appreciate realism and extreme clarity, the Sierra-2 will deliver a level of quality that you have not previously experienced.

A funny thing happens when you get into truly exceptional speakers like the Sierra-2; they actually put out LESS sound than speakers that are not quite as refined. Allow me to explain...

:)

Technically speaking, ANY deviation away from the original signal is a form of distortion. The signal in any recording is telling the speaker to play a certain note at a certain loudness for a certain length of time. Speaker that flat out cannot play all the notes are just plain bad - although one could argue that if the only notes they fail to produce are extremely high or extremely low in frequency, then they're still a "fine" speaker that could be very enjoyable. But in my own definition, in order for a speaker to be called "good", it needs to at least play all the notes!

For a speaker to be "very good", it needs to play all the notes extremely close to the volume level that the signal requested. This is easier said than done! No speaker has completely flat frequency response, which means every speaker is deviating at least slightly away from what the signal actually requested at some frequencies. But when a speaker is very close to being completely linear - and it's playing all the notes - then it's a very good speaker.

But the signal is also requesting every note be played for a very specific length of time. And this is where the very good speakers are separated from the excellent speakers. Speakers make sound by physically vibrating. This means they have inertia. They have to go from a dead stop to instantaneous motion and instantly back to a dead stop when requested to do so by the signal in the recording. Simply put, this is impossible. Due to inertia, there is always some length of time where the woofers and tweeters are still motionless even though the signal just asked them to move, and there's always some length of time where they continue to move even after the signal asked them to stop. There's no way around it!

But excellent speakers bring this delay down to a minimum - and that's what we call the transient response. To put it simply, the Sierra-2 have incredibly quick transient response. This is due to its ribbon tweeter having exceedingly little mass, which means it has very low inertia. Combine this trait with linear response and an ability to play all the notes (other than extremely low bass that ought to be handled by subwoofers anyway - http://www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/small-room-acoustics ), and you have an excellent speaker unlike any speaker you've heard up to this point.

When all of these traits are combined, they lead to a better sense of realism. We are all familiar with hearing a song playing and just inherently knowing that it is being played through speakers as opposed to being real, live musicians playing real instruments in the room. It can be very difficult to pin point exactly why we know it's sound coming through a speaker rather than real instruments. And, of course, the recording itself plays a huge role in whether or not it's even possible to be "fooled" into thinking it's real, live instruments rather than speakers. But that extremely fast transient response is a pretty big piece of the puzzle. When a device like a speaker is attempting to recreate the sounds of other instruments, ANY form of distortion clues our brains into the fact that we're listening to a speaker rather than the genuine instruments.

So the Sierra-2 remove more sources of distortion than a great many other speakers out there. And that leads to a greater sense of realism. As long as the recording allows it, you will hear a greater number of instances where you are "fooled" into thinking you're listening to real, live instruments and voices. It's extremely gratifying when it happens, and it can even be downright eerie sometimes. If you have pets, you'll notice them prick up their ears and wig out more often when sounds coming through the Sierra-2 make them think they're hearing real sounds rather than recreations.

So is that worth the asking price? Given that you were willing to consider the $1600/pair Paradigm speakers, absolutely! For very close to the same price (after shipping), you can make the step from very, very good speakers to excellent speakers.

Let's be honest, buying ever more expensive speakers is an excellent way to experience diminishing returns. It gets to the point where if we were truly honest and we were listening blind, we'd either be completely unable to tell speakers apart, or we might be able to tell them apart, but it would be a total back and forth game as to which one we preferred. One speaker might sound slightly preferable with one particular recording, then the other speaker sounds preferable with a different recording. So there's no clear "winner", which is kind of what we'd want if we're starting to spend thousands or tens of thousands of dollars.

But there are some products that sort of "stick out" at certain price points. I really enjoy trying to find those speakers. The Sierra-2 are an example of such a speaker. Is it diminishing returns? Sure. But I have to say, that jump in realism is a bigger, more noticeable difference than a lot of other "price gap" diminishing returns. That said, I've certainly had at least one person tell me that while they had no trouble hearing a difference, they just couldn't quite justify spending around $1500 vs. around $300 for a pair of speakers. They gap in performance was there, but for that person, the gap in price was too large to justify it. It wasn't a "five times better" sort of performance gap in their mind.

On the other end of the spectrum, though, I've also had people tell me that they had previously only heard the same sort of realism from $9000 speakers. So for them, this was a relatively small increase in price, and a tremendous value because they were thinking they were going to have to spend six times as much to reach this level of performance.

So I can't speak to value. That is a personal decision for each buyer. But what everyone who has heard the Sierra-2 agrees upon is that there is an audible - and an objectively measureable - difference in their sound quality. Is it "five time better" than Ascend's own CBM-170SE speakers? Given that the CBM-170SE are "very good", I would have to say, no. The Sierra-2 aren't "five times better". It's not like you'll think you're hearing a totally different song or something. But you will hear a difference. And given how "very good" the CBM-170SE are, for a lot of folks, being able to hear and measure ANY audible improvement is reason enough to get really excited! Especially if it's been your experience that $9000 can only equal the Sierra-2, but not surpass them in any way.

So it's all a matter of perspective. But we are talking about going from "very, very good" to "excellent". The Paradigm Prestige speakers sounded "very good" to you? I'd completely agree. They are "very good" speakers. So are the Sierra-1. But the Sierra-2 are "excellent speakers", and they don't cost any more than the Paradigm Prestige 15B. So that's like getting a slight performance upgrade for "free". What's not to like about that?

;)

- Rob H. - AV Rant Podcast Co-Host

[Joe12pack]

hey Rob-- thanks so much for the thoughtful reply. I had not even considered the CBM-170SE but perhaps I might start with a pair of those and if they are as good as I am reading I can then step up to the Sierra-2's and still keep the 170's. I'm tempted to just go straight for the Sierra-2's right off the bat however. I might have to connect with someone with Sierra-2's that lives in the SF Bay area. In a way I'm glad I was able to find these speakers before I pulled the trigger on the Paradigm's. Something about the way their product lines have been changing so much makes me think the bean counters have taken over and its all about maxing out every cent. At least Ascends are made in the U.S. of A. So awesome. I'll let everyone know what I end up purchasing.

[tknice]

Man Rob, I love when you talk about the Sierra-2! :D

[marriJAI]

Hi Joe 12 Pack!

I wanted to share that I've had my "New" Sierra 2's for about 1 week now. They sound amazing! The sound is very clear, detailed, smooth, true and immersive. I am listening on a 30 year old Marantz Receiver. I am currently on the hunt for a new one. It's difficult to purchase a sound system sight unseen relying on other people reviews. I'm so glad I took the plunge. Read the reviews and listen through other owners ears. Good luck and Good Listening!

MarriLi

[FirstReflect]

Hi Joe 12 Pack!

I wanted to share that I've had my "New" Sierra 2's for about 1 week now. They sound amazing! The sound is very clear, detailed, smooth, true and immersive. I am listening on a 30 year old Marantz Receiver. I am currently on the hunt for a new one. It's difficult to purchase a sound system sight unseen relying on other people reviews. I'm so glad I took the plunge. Read the reviews and listen through other owners ears. Good luck and Good Listening!

MarriLi

If you're on the hunt for a new Receiver, this article that I wrote might be of interest :)

http://www.avrant.com/a-guide-for-future-proof-bang-for-buck-av-receivers/

I will add a comment here that even if you are only using two speakers in a strictly stereo setup, I still highly recommend getting a Surround Sound Receiver these days. Given the price points of Surround Sound AVRs vs. 2-channel-only integrated amps, you are gaining absolutely nothing in the sound quality department by using 2-channel-only gear. And since almost none of the 2-channel-only units out there include automatic EQ and setup (such as Audyssey), it's really no contest.

So I would highly recommend to ANYONE looking for the pre-amplification and amplification part of their system that they have a gander at my write-up there.

:)

- Rob H. - AV Rant Podcast Co-host

[marriJAI]

Hi Rob H

I am definitely going to get a Surround Sound Receiver. I will be purchasing The Towers with Raal and a Horizon Center with Raal along with, probably, one sub to start. I think I will want two subs. I just don't think I can swing it all at once.
It may be that I don't get the "best" receiver now or the one I really want. That's okay. It's a start. I am leaning toward starting off with the Marantz SR 7010 or SR 7009. Although the Denon X5200 has a lot of good features. I will read your Article.

Thank you so very much! MarriLe

[GPeaslee]

I can comment about the Prestige 15B vs. the Sierra 2, as I just picked up a demo pair of 15B's to replace my HTM-200 SE side surrounds. My front speakers are the Sierra 2's and a center Sierra Horizon (RAAL tweeter). Due to severe space limitations, I could not use Sierra's for the side surrounds. To my ear, the Sierra 2 sounds better, but the Prestige is not far behind. I think the difference is the RAAL tweeter which is a little smoother and sweeter, but the overall timbral match between the 2 speakers is pretty close. If in your price range, I would go for the Sierra 2's.

[Dxman]

Hi GPeaslee,

I recently purchased the Sierra 2 for fronts and I'm liking the sound but I'm wondering if you or any other Sierra 2 owner can recommend good stands for the 2s. I would also like your observations on the Horizon RAAL center with 2s combo. I'm considering either the Horizon RAAL or the Sierra2 Center.
I'm 50/50 music and movies.

Thanks,

Sorry for going off topic folks, I haven't figured out yet how to start my own post/thread.

[davef]

Hi GPeaslee,

I recently purchased the Sierra 2 for fronts and I'm liking the sound but I'm wondering if you or any other Sierra 2 owner can recommend good stands for the 2s. I would also like your observations on the Horizon RAAL center with 2s combo. I'm considering either the Horizon RAAL or the Sierra2 Center.
I'm 50/50 music and movies.

Thanks,

Sorry for going off topic folks, I haven't figured out yet how to start my own post/thread.

For stands, I highly recommend these: http://amzn.com/B004T7VCM0

Between the Horizon center or Sierra-2 center, without question - if you can fit the Horizon within your budget and space, go for the Horizon. It is an absolutely incredible center speaker. Feel free to send me an email to discuss.

[GPeaslee]

Hi GPeaslee,

I recently purchased the Sierra 2 for fronts and I'm liking the sound but I'm wondering if you or any other Sierra 2 owner can recommend good stands for the 2s. I would also like your observations on the Horizon RAAL center with 2s combo. I'm considering either the Horizon RAAL or the Sierra2 Center.
I'm 50/50 music and movies.

Thanks,

Sorry for going off topic folks, I haven't figured out yet how to start my own post/thread.

I completely agree with Dave. The center speaker is extremely important for movies/TV and for multi channel music. The Horizon RAAL center is a perfect match for the Sierra 2's. I also highly recommend Rythmik's servo subs to complete the bottom end.

[Dxman]

For stands, I highly recommend these: http://amzn.com/B004T7VCM0

Between the Horizon center or Sierra-2 center, without question - if you can fit the Horizon within your budget and space, go for the Horizon. It is an absolutely incredible center speaker. Feel free to send me an email to discuss.

Thanks Dave

[Dxman]

I completely agree with Dave. The center speaker is extremely important for movies/TV and for multi channel music. The Horizon RAAL center is a perfect match for the Sierra 2's. I also highly recommend Rythmik's servo subs to complete the bottom end.

Thanks GPeaslee,

That's what I was curious about, whether the Horizon will be a good match with the Sierra 2. I figured they wouldn't be far off but wondered if the Sierra 2 center are a better match since they are identical. Probably the only thing I might sometimes need to do is adjust the level for the center when listening to music since the Horizon is more sensitive.
I'm definitely considering the Horizon. I just need to decide if I want to pay double the price for it. I've got an Axiom EP500 for the low end right now and it's playing well with the Sierras.