Audyssey Crossover Setting for HTM-200 SE

[Johnny_Mac_III]

I am using HTM-200 SEs for my surrounds. Audyssey continues to give me a crossover setting of 120 hz no matter where I place them (I even tried replacing my center with an HTM-200 SE and it still gives me 120 hz). My CMT-340 at the same center position gets set at 60 hz. Is their anything I can try or is this a normal crossover setting for the HTM-200 SEs? Thanks.

My room is sealed 13x18x8.

[davef]

I am using HTM-200 SEs for my surrounds. Audyssey continues to give me a crossover setting of 120 hz no matter where I place them (I even tried replacing my center with an HTM-200 SE and it still gives me 120 hz). My CMT-340 at the same center position gets set at 60 hz. Is their anything I can try or is this a normal crossover setting for the HTM-200 SEs? Thanks.

My room is sealed 13x18x8.

I suggest manually setting all of the speakers to 80Hz. Auto-Eq rarely gets the crossover settings right.

[Johnny_Mac_III]

Thanks Dave

[Kisakuku]

I suggest manually setting all of the speakers to 80Hz. Auto-Eq rarely gets the crossover settings right.

The problem with using Audyssey and lowering the crossover frequency is that now there's no correction applied in the 80-120Hz range.

[davef]

The problem with using Audyssey and lowering the crossover frequency is that now there's no correction applied in the 80-120Hz range.

I am far from an expert on Audyssey, but this is the first I have head of this.

[natetg57]

This what I found from the Audyssey 'Zendesk'

Chris Kyriakakis Audyssey
"The whole point of measuring the speakers in your room is to see where they roll off. Placement changes the theoretical "full range" spec that doesn't know about your room. You can move the crossover lower, but Audyssey won't be applying any correction below the point it found as the roll off."

[Kisakuku]

I am far from an expert on Audyssey, but this is the first I have head of this.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#c4

"Is it OK to change the Crossovers from Audyssey's recommendation?

Raising (never lowering) the Crossovers is fine and will not affect the calibration that Audyssey has made. Indeed, there are good reasons to raise the Crossover settings as mentioned elsewhere in this FAQ.

If you decide to change any of the Crossovers determined by Audyssey, note that it is always OK to RAISE the Crossovers from those suggested but never to LOWER them. This is because Audyssey corrects down to the -3dB point of the speaker's frequencies response, so if you lower the Crossover from Audyssey's suggested setting you will create an uncorrected 'hole' in the frequency response. It's fine to raise them and doing so does not harm the Audyssey calibration in any way at all."

[davef]

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-1726.html#c4

"Is it OK to change the Crossovers from Audyssey's recommendation?

Raising (never lowering) the Crossovers is fine and will not affect the calibration that Audyssey has made. Indeed, there are good reasons to raise the Crossover settings as mentioned elsewhere in this FAQ.

If you decide to change any of the Crossovers determined by Audyssey, note that it is always OK to RAISE the Crossovers from those suggested but never to LOWER them. This is because Audyssey corrects down to the -3dB point of the speaker's frequencies response, so if you lower the Crossover from Audyssey's suggested setting you will create an uncorrected 'hole' in the frequency response. It's fine to raise them and doing so does not harm the Audyssey calibration in any way at all."

Thanks for posting this. It is very good information to know....

[Mag_Neato]

What if Audyssey sets the mains to large +sub? That's how it set my Sierra-2's with 12" Rythmik. I manually set it to small with a 60hz crossover. I prefer running the mains in pure direct, which leaves the sub out of the mix, but it sounds better to me. The image seems to shift to the left in stereo mode crossing over to the sub. Not sure if it's collapsing towards the sub for some reason or if the room is contributing. So effectively Audyssey is not running in pure direct.

[natetg57]

Which receiver do you have? I'm running mine I'll in Bypass L/R mode. It doesn't equalize the front I and R but equalizes the rest of the speakers to match their frequency response. I think it works well because my fronts measure fairly flat. The surrounds and my F15 are what really need it.
Are you running Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume? I like Dynamic EQ but I have it set to -10 offset so the bass isn't overpowering.
I always turn dynamic volume off. Just some tips that are working for me. I'm hoping to upgrade to a x4100 to get xt32 later in the year.

[natetg57]

And to answer your question, it's fine to set a higher crossover point like you've done. I think 60 or 80 is best. Take a look at 'Parameter Check' it'll tell you if audyssey is applying a significantly different frequency correction curve to each speaker. You might need to rerun auto setup.

[Mag_Neato]

I'm using a Marantz SR6003 AVR which has an early version of MultEQ. No Dynamic EQ or volume. There is no L/R bypass either, but I only use it in a 2.1 setup.

[davef]

This what I found from the Audyssey 'Zendesk'

Chris Kyriakakis Audyssey
"The whole point of measuring the speakers in your room is to see where they roll off. Placement changes the theoretical "full range" spec that doesn't know about your room. You can move the crossover lower, but Audyssey won't be applying any correction below the point it found as the roll off."

The problem is that with such a high crossover point, those frequencies are then sent to the subwoofer. Definitely don't what your sub reproducing directional frequencies.

The other side to this is that when Audyssey sets speakers to full range based on how the speakers measure in the room, there is no way of Audyssey knowing what the actual capabilities of the speaker are. Sending low frequency signals which are below the port tune frequency of a ported speaker, or below the resonant frequency of a sealed speaker, can result in blown woofers. Customers then unknowingly put the blame on the speaker as being faulty while the actual truth is that the speaker is being abused. Don't get me wrong, I am generally a fan of Auto-Eq systems, but I have seen many damaged drivers because of incorrect Auto-Eq settings....

I would suggest that Auto-Eq systems allow the user to enter certain speaker parameters prior to the system running the EQ procedure, this way the room response can be optimized while taking into account the speaker's actual capabilities...

[Johnny_Mac_III]

The problem is that with such a high crossover point, those frequencies are then sent to the subwoofer. Definitely don't what your sub reproducing directional frequencies.

The other side to this is that when Audyssey sets speakers to full range based on how the speakers measure in the room, there is no way of Audyssey knowing what the actual capabilities of the speaker are. Sending low frequency signals which are below the port tune frequency of a ported speaker, or below the resonant frequency of a sealed speaker, can result in blown woofers. Customers then unknowingly put the blame on the speaker as being faulty while the actual truth is that the speaker is being abused. Don't get me wrong, I am generally a fan of Auto-Eq systems, but I have seen many damaged drivers because of incorrect Auto-Eq settings....

I would suggest that Auto-Eq systems allow the user to enter certain speaker parameters prior to the system running the EQ procedure, this way the room response can be optimized while taking into account the speaker's actual capabilities...

Yes, I guess I would rather have 90-150 hz not being eq'd than have directional sound coming through my LV12r. For me, it's going to come down to getting a UMIK 1 with REW and figuring out what the issue is. I'm either going to have to move my seating or placement of speakers to get that rolloff closer to at least 100 hz. I wonder if instead of keeping them on mounts with 6 inches of space behind them, if it would be better to place them directly on the wall to possibly give them extra gain in the low frequencies that I need?

[natetg57]

I agree with all of what you said. I have mine set at 60 for that same reason. When I had my 200's directly on the wall Audyssey measured the response at 80 I think.

[Johnny_Mac_III]

Thanks. I'll update you when I do some measurements and move things around a bit.

[davef]

I agree with all of what you said. I have mine set at 60 for that same reason. When I had my 200's directly on the wall Audyssey measured the response at 80 I think.

60 is a bit low for the 200's. I do recommend 80Hz, but if all sounds good at 60Hz and you don't notice any mechanical distress at loud volumes, you are good to go.

[natetg57]

60 is a bit low for the 200's. I do recommend 80Hz, but if all sounds good at 60Hz and you don't notice any mechanical distress at loud volumes, you are good to go.

I'm sorry, my statement wasn't clear. I'm using a 60hz crossover with my Sierra-2's so I don't get localization out of my sub which is positioned to the side of the room.
When I used to have 200's as my surrounds, I used an 80hz crossover.

[davef]

I'm sorry, my statement wasn't clear. I'm using a 60hz crossover with my Sierra-2's so I don't get localization out of my sub which is positioned to the side of the room.
When I used to have 200's as my surrounds, I used an 80hz crossover.

Thanks for the clarification, this is perfect :)

[Johnny_Mac_III]

Just wanted to update. After doing some measurements with my UMIK-1 and REW I found a large null at 130 hz, which could be why my crossover is getting set so high. My HTMs definitely play low enough for a 80hz crossover. Now to get some room treatments and/or other placement options to fix this issue.

[N Boros]

The problem is that with such a high crossover point, those frequencies are then sent to the subwoofer. Definitely don't what your sub reproducing directional frequencies.

The other side to this is that when Audyssey sets speakers to full range based on how the speakers measure in the room, there is no way of Audyssey knowing what the actual capabilities of the speaker are. Sending low frequency signals which are below the port tune frequency of a ported speaker, or below the resonant frequency of a sealed speaker, can result in blown woofers. Customers then unknowingly put the blame on the speaker as being faulty while the actual truth is that the speaker is being abused. Don't get me wrong, I am generally a fan of Auto-Eq systems, but I have seen many damaged drivers because of incorrect Auto-Eq settings....

I would suggest that Auto-Eq systems allow the user to enter certain speaker parameters prior to the system running the EQ procedure, this way the room response can be optimized while taking into account the speaker's actual capabilities...

I just recently listened to an AVRant interview with Chris Kyriakakis, again, that was originally from last fall: http://www.avrant.com/av-rant-402-interview-with-chris-kyriakakis-of-audyssey/


Chris addressed this issue specifically. It is not Audyssey that decides the crossover points based on the measurements, but the receiver/preamp manufacturer that decides based on Audyssey's measurements. Usually the crossovers for the surround and center channels will be what Audyssey recommends, based off of the measurements. However, the front speakers in most cases are almost always set, by the manufacturer to large, with no crossover. It is not based on any logic other than the user may take offense to their speakers being "small" (which means at some point the bass is handed off to the subwoofer) as opposed to "large". Chris mentioned in the interview, that even very capable tower speakers (in terms of ability to play down to 20 Hz at reference levels) would benefit from having a crossover and Audyssey can accurately measure good crossover points in general, even though it is almost never implemented by the receiver/preamp manufacturer.