170's and Sibilance

[jerrymb]

I just ordered a pair of 170's. With the other speakers I've had over the last several years I always had a problem with strong sibilance. Some speakers more than others. I had a pair of the Wharfdale Diamond 10.2's and the sibilance on those was strong. I know that some recordings are poorly mastered and have more sibilance than well recorded cds do. How are the 170's on vocals? Will they tame sibilance or enhance it?

[curtis]

I just ordered a pair of 170's. With the other speakers I've had over the last several years I always had a problem with strong sibilance. Some speakers more than others. I had a pair of the Wharfdale Diamond 10.2's and the sibilance on those was strong. I know that some recordings are poorly mastered and have more sibilance than well recorded cds do. How are the 170's on vocals? Will they tame sibilance or enhance it?
Sibilance almost always starts with the recording/source. The 170's certainly won't add to it.

Do you feel you are more susceptible to sibilance than others? Have you ever had your hearing checked to see what frequencies are bothering you?

Don't you own 340's?

[jerrymb]

I haven't had the 340's in at least 4 years. One speaker was damaged beyond repair. My hearing was checked and is perfect.

[curtis]

I haven't had the 340's in at least 4 years. One speaker was damaged beyond repair. My hearing was checked and is perfect.
Did the 340's cause you any problems with sibilance?

[jerrymb]

Honestly I can't remember. I don't believe so.

[curtis]

Honestly I can't remember. I don't believe so.
Do you remember why you moved away from the 340's rather than just replacing the damaged one?

IMO...no Ascend speaker has any problem with sibilance.

The 340 is slightly more forward sounding than the 170, so if it didn't cause you any problems with sibilance, the 170 certainly won't either...of course all things being equal such as your source.

One comment you had in some old postings were you felt the 340's didn't have a lot of bass...I replied that that the 340's don't have exaggerated bass, and don't play very deep. The 170's, have less bass extension than the 340's.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4434-340s-and-Bass-Question

[jerrymb]

I couldn't afford to replace the damaged 340. I've had Whardale,Epos,Polk and JBL speakers since then and the sibilance on all was strong. The JBLs were the smoothest but the sibilance was still there.

[moris4wildlife]

Hi jerrymb - I owned a pair of the original 170s for 11 years or so; they are still in my home but being used by my son. I agree with Curtis that sibilance starts with the recording, even on audiophile recordings. Case in point - I have a Steely Dan Aja LP by Mobile Fidelity. The lead singer's lisp is evident and comes across as sibilance through the 170s. But on other recordings which are not "hot", the speakers did not add sibilance and sounded crisp and clean. Now, there are speakers out there that nearly take away sibilance even from hot recordings. I own a speaker that has a ribbon tweeter, and the highs are noticeably sweeter than the 170s, but they also cost about 2.5 times more.

So, will the 170s tame or enhance sibilance? Only you can be the judge of that, based on your experience with your current speakers. At least there is a trial period. -moris4wildlife

[jerrymb]

Thanks for your reply. The 170's arrive tomorrow.

[moris4wildlife]

Thanks for your reply. The 170's arrive tomorrow.

Congratulations! Let us know what you experience regarding sibilance vs your other speakers.

[DougMac]

I couldn't afford to replace the damaged 340. I've had Whardale,Epos,Polk and JBL speakers since then and the sibilance on all was strong. The JBLs were the smoothest but the sibilance was still there.
Hmm That leads me to believe you've got problems somewhere else in the chain. Is the sibilance from all sources? Do you have a turntable? Sibilance is problematic with records and can indicate setup problems, the quality of the cart/stylus or even a damaged stylus.

I hope you are pleased with the 170's. I use them as side surrounds in my home theater and they do a great job.

[jerrymb]

The sibilance has to be on the recordings themselves because I've tried several receivers,several cd players,several different speakers and I still hear it. I just don't remember ever being this bothered by it before as I have lately. My hearing was checked and is perfect. Also I only hear sibilance on cds. Not from any other source.

My 170's just arrived and I'm unpacking them now.

I notice that on the ports on the rear of the speakers if I run my finger around the inside of the port the inner edge of the black plastic is really jagged and rough like it wasn't cut properly. Not a big deal but I expected a bit more quality for $380.

[jerrymb]

I also just noticed that the Ascend logo on one speaker is crooked. It's easy to see even from several feet away.

[curtis]

I also just noticed that the Ascend logo on one speaker is crooked. It's easy to see even from several feet away.
But how do they sound?

I'm sure Ascend will help you witht the logo.

[jerrymb]

They sound OK. Really no better or no worse than many of the other speakers I've had. Maybe I'm at the point in my hearing where any halfway decent speakers will all pretty much sound similar? Even though my hearing is good? I think I may return them. I'm just not happy with the overall qulaity.The crooked logo. The seem at the bottom is a bit tacky.

[curtis]

Might be time to take a step up or two.

[DougMac]

Your call. The first thing I did is remove the logo. They are just tacked on with adhesive. They left no mark. I agree with Curtis, you seem to be stuck in speaker purgatory. Maybe a speaker at a notch or two higher would be more to your liking.

[GirgleMirt]

What would you replace them with?

For the logo, unless you really want to have the ascend logo, you could probably just remove them... Well, after talking to Ascend I guess, if you're really planning to return then, then I wouldn't remove the logo. ;) But even better, remove the entire grill, as even the best grills out there aren't measured in how much they help the sound, but by how much they degrade it...


They sound OK. Really no better or no worse than many of the other speakers I've had.
Hard to believe, as speakers, especially around that price, usually sound quite different... But anyway, at the price point you can't expect RAAL tower sound quality... I may be in the minority but the way I judge speakers isn't how 'great' they sound, but by how little they do wrong. And when you're looking at 175$ a speaker, this becomes a lot more significant. The 170s have a very flat frequency response, I guess that's something you appreciate, or not. Quickly googling the Wharfedales, they also seem like decent speakers for the money, though they potentially seem to have very serious issues (http://www.audioexcite.com/?page_id=4417).

I think it's 30 days for the return period? You could definitely buy a couple different speaker sets and compare them side by side, then decide which you want to keep.


Maybe I'm at the point in my hearing where any halfway decent speakers will all pretty much sound similar? Even though my hearing is good?
I think it's different for each person. 1) for what you notice and 2) what you care or don't care about. For instance, it bugs the hell out of me when a speaker doesn't have a balanced/neutral sound. Others often can't seem to tell the difference or don't seem to care. Varies for each.

Audiophiles sometimes mention 'listening ability'. And there's even training for people who are to be hired as blind speaker testers for instance. You basically have to know what to listen for... If you don't, eventhough you might have 20/20 hearing, you might just not be able to interpret you're hearing.

For build quality, can't really speak for your particular set, but the way I've always seen the 170/340 line, is you're buying a performance package. Speakers designed to give you the best performance for the money. For me, the 340SE definitely delivered in that regard. For the cut port tube, if it's inside the speaker, why worry at all about it when it won't have any significant impact? For the seam, I think my 340SE have the same thing, it's simply a small 'gap' where the front baffle and cabinet meet? Well not really a gap, but font baffle is very slightly larger. Again, no impact whatsoever maybe aside cosmetics, but if it bothers you... Well... There's probably other speakers without it, but in my experience, odds are the sound quality won't be equal. At this price point it's all about compromises, and cosmetics were 2nd to performance IMHO.

If you can manage, the Sierras might be more to your liking...

[markie]

Jerry, out of curiosity was there much sibilance on the 170s compared to the other speakers you've tried?

You said, "I only hear sibilance on cds. Not from any other source. "

If you were to rip a sibilant CD to your hard drive and play it from your computer, do you think there still be sibilance?

Mark

[jerrymb]

The sibilance on the 170's was stll there but maybe a touch less compared to other speakers I've had. I have the 170's boxed back up and I'm just waiting to hear from Ascend on the return. I tried to remove the logo and reposition it but when I try to remove it part of the grill starts to pull away with the logo and I don't want to tear the grill.

[moris4wildlife]

The sibilance on the 170's was stll there but maybe a touch less compared to other speakers I've had. I have the 170's boxed back up and I'm just waiting to hear from Ascend on the return. I tried to remove the logo and reposition it but when I try to remove it part of the grill starts to pull away with the logo and I don't want to tear the grill.

I'm thinking that Curtis (and others) may be right. It sounds like you're going to need to move up a notch or two for the sound you're looking for, since all the speakers in your budget range are sounding similar regarding the "sssssss" frequency. Unfortunately, your budget would have to increase for a speaker with a top-notch dome or ribbon tweeter that will sweeten the top end.

Just out of curiosity, though, can you name some of the CDs that give you problems? Do you get the same results listening to an audiophile quality CD? Because if you do, then something other than the speaker could be at play (as suggested by others), since I had never heard sibilance on the 170s from well recorded CDs.

[jerrymb]

I hear sibilance on many Dylan cds especially his latest Tempest. I don't have any audiophile cds. I know that what i'm hearing is in the recording because I have planty of cds that sound nice and smooth.

[DougMac]

I hear sibilance on many Dylan cds especially his latest Tempest. I don't have any audiophile cds. I know that what i'm hearing is in the recording because I have planty of cds that sound nice and smooth.
Well, I thought it was a universal problem. Better speakers won't hide a problem. My experience is that better speakers make good source sound better, but also reveal more clearly shortcomings in the original material. I fear you are on an unobtainable quest. You put the problem at the feet of speakers though the problem is with certain recordings.

[moris4wildlife]

I concur with DougMac. That you can hear certain CD recordings to sound nice and smooth suggests that the speakers may not be the problem. Your situation sounds universal, that is, most of us have gone through what you are experiencing. We all want nice and smooth sound all the time, but I'm not sure if that's even possible, regardless of the cost of the speakers or electronics. In my situation, I don't listen to many of my older CDs and LPs any longer because they sound fatiguing. Now, for the genre/groups I like, I spend time beforehand looking at such details as who mastered the CD, the bit rate/depth, is it SACD, HDCD, etc, before I purchase. On the one hand, it's kind of a bummer that good speakers keep me from listening to some of what I enjoyed in the past, because they are so revealing. But, when I do find well recorded music, the listening experience is deep satisfaction.

Best of luck with the sibilance issue.