Mixing Sierra-1 LR with HTM-200SE Center

[kdaq]

I've been easing my way up in my home theater / listening room, and currently have five HTM-200SEs with a Rythmik LV12R.

For movies, this is a stunning setup and I have no complaints. These little speakers are really special (amazing design work, Dave!).

For music? It seems I'm never satisfied, and I feel like I want to keep climbing the ladder. I rather skip over the 170 and 340 and jump to a Sierra-1 pair.


So here's the $500 question: is it really a big deal to wait on a Sierra-1 center? If I mix a Sierra-1 LR pair with a HTM-200SE center, will it ruin my movie watching?

Yes, I know. The center channel gets the most material, so on and so forth. But here's my thinking:


I'm talking stock Sierra-1, not NRT-upgraded, not a ribbon-based Sierra-2.
A quick search tells me that many folks use HTM-200SE as surrounds with Sierra LCR and it works well, so that's a good start.
I use Audyssey XT32, and expect that it can help this situation.


Also note...I'd get one eventually. It's just easier for me to do my upgrades piecemeal.

[donaldekelly]

No law against it but I'm guessing a phantom center would sound better. That is, no center. I guess you could try the 200 as center with no cost until you get the sierra center. I would experiment but others may know better.

[kdaq]

Well, it certainly is easy enough to just shut it off if it does end up sounding better that way.

I was just curious if anyone has tried this, or has insight into expected results.

[donaldekelly]

Sorry. I misunderstood.

If someone with more knowledge doesn't chime in I will hook up a 170 as center between my 1s and give you my opinion. That might be close enough.

You're probably better off with someone else's ears doing the listening, though.

[kdaq]

Too kind of you to offer! I certainly appreciate any impressions, though please don't trouble yourself if rewiring is a hassle.

Also, I see no reason to distrust your ears -- you thought enough of them to treat them to Sierra-1s, after all. :)

[mde8965]

So here's the $500 question: is it really a big deal to wait on a Sierra-1 center? If I mix a Sierra-1 LR pair with a HTM-200SE center, will it ruin my movie watching?

Yes, I know. The center channel gets the most material, so on and so forth. But here's my thinking:


I'm talking stock Sierra-1, not NRT-upgraded, not a ribbon-based Sierra-2.
A quick search tells me that many folks use HTM-200SE as surrounds with Sierra LCR and it works well, so that's a good start.
I use Audyssey XT32, and expect that it can help this situation.


Also note...I'd get one eventually. It's just easier for me to do my upgrades piecemeal.

Because I have a buddy with S1's and 200's as surrounds, I would have to tell you with some certainty that NO it will not ruin your movie experience. And it will certainly benefit your 2 channel music listening experience. I would say that for movies, you will not notice a ton of difference from what you have now. Because the center is reponsible for almost all of the dialogue. Before I bought my Ascends I listened to his setup critically, and had him play both his S1's and 200's as mains to give me an idea what the benefit of the Sierra's was. And the timbre was not that different, but the mids and lower frequencies were more ...pronouced (not the best word, but can't think of a better descriptive word) and the sound stage was much bigger. Since you use a sub and probably cross at 100 or 80 anyway, it should not be a big deal. I am not saying for movies that S1's is not a big upgrade over the 200's, but am saying thaat the tibre differences will not be a big deal.

But for 2ch music, in my option, it is a nice upgrade that you will notice!. Heck even if you like multi-channel music you will notice as more sounds comes from the FR and FL than it does with movies in a 5.x system.

Point being, if there is any noticable timbre mismatch for movies that Audyssey cannot tame, it will be negligible compared to the improvement you should hear in 2 channel music.

Get the S1 center when funds allow

But don't say you have not been warned, once you have the S1's, you will be wondering what all the buzz is about with the S2's

All IMHO

[kdaq]

Excellent impressions, thank you. I love the HTM-200, but what I'm missing for music (in my 20 x 10 x 8 room) is exactly what you mentioned -- some mid-lows and more presence.

As for the S2 -- oh yeah, I fully expect I'll cave eventually. Nothing against trying different brands, but from my experience in the headphone world I want to climb the ladder with neutral stuff, so where better than Ascend?

Let's just say I wouldn't be shocked if I progressed something like this, with months or years between hops:


Sierra-1 for LR
Sierra-1 for C
Second sub
Sierra-2 upgrade LCR
Sierra towers for LR, move Sierra-2 to surround or dedicated listening room
Sierra Horizon for C, sell Sierra-2 C

Of course by the time I have the coin, maybe they'll be more Sierra successors? :)

[donaldekelly]

Of course by the time I have the coin, maybe they'll be more Sierra successors? :)

That is what I am thinking too. Maybe woofer, crossover and tweeter to turn the S1s into S3s!

Dave - how long till the S3 upgrade is ready to ship? The one that makes bad recordings sound great and gives you 30 different flavors of soda and frozen yogurt in the same size enclosure!

[mde8965]

As for the S2 -- oh yeah, I fully expect I'll cave eventually. Nothing against trying different brands, but from my experience in the headphone world I want to climb the ladder with neutral stuff, so where better than Ascend?

Let's just say I wouldn't be shocked if I progressed something like this, with months or years between hops:


Sierra-1 for LR
Sierra-1 for C
Second sub
Sierra-2 upgrade LCR
Sierra towers for LR, move Sierra-2 to surround or dedicated listening room
Sierra Horizon for C, sell Sierra-2 C

Of course by the time I have the coin, maybe they'll be more Sierra successors? :)

So you get me. I originally was merely curious about Ascend because of my buddy. So was thinking I might replace some aging Paradigm speakers with S1's or something. Well by the time it was said and done, I now have:
Sierra Towers with RAAL - FR & FL
Sierra 2's - Surrounds
Horizon Center with RAAL

in my 7.2 system...

So much for minor upgrades...

[kdaq]

So you get me. I originally was merely curious about Ascend because of my buddy. So was thinking I might replace some aging Paradigm speakers with S1's or something. Well by the time it was said and done, I now have:
Sierra Towers with RAAL - FR & FL
Sierra 2's - Surrounds
Horizon Center with RAAL

in my 7.2 system...

So much for minor upgrades...
Nice setup!

I did something similar money-wise in the headphone world, starting with my eyes on a Grado SR-60. Now have HF-1, MS-2i, HF-2, similar stuff from Sennheiser, Etymotics, Shure, Denon. It was more about trying different stuff there. In the speaker world it makes more sense to upgrade a single system, and I look forward to climbing the ladder. :)

[davef]

That is what I am thinking too. Maybe woofer, crossover and tweeter to turn the S1s into S3s!

Dave - how long till the S3 upgrade is ready to ship? The one that makes bad recordings sound great and gives you 30 different flavors of soda and frozen yogurt in the same size enclosure!

Lol ---, sorry -- absolutely no plans for a Sierra-3 at this point. I have, however, just finished up a special version of the Sierra-2 with the NrT dome (as requested by several customers who prefer dome tweeters)

[donaldekelly]

I have, however, just finished up a special version of the Sierra-2 with the NrT dome (as requested by several customers who prefer dome tweeters)

Interesting - several customers prefer dome tweeters. I haven't heard of that - or why domes would be preferred.

I figured Dave was working on something. I wonder what is next after the domed Sierra 2?

[davef]

Interesting - several customers prefer dome tweeters. I haven't heard of that - or why domes would be preferred.

With auditions here at our office, on average, 80% of listeners prefer RAAL ribbons to our NrT dome. RAAL True Ribbons and our NrT dome do sound different, and have different characteristics. Much depends on the type of music the customer prefers. Domes tend to sound more "in your face" -- a bit more forward sounding, less "polite", and with more residual energy being released combined with wider vertical dispersion, they also tend to sound louder. For those who prefer hard rock and heavy metal, and like to play at very loud volume levels, our ribbons can sound too relaxed and too polite for this particular customer base.

Here is another way to consider it, our NrT dome towers tend to sound like one is at the concert with the band playing through a full PA system in a large loud venue. Our Ribbon Towers tend to sound more like you are at a live acoustic performance in a smaller more intimate setting (no PA system)

Hope this makes sense!

[donaldekelly]

Makes sense. I think I would be more of ribbon guy - but just got the Sierra 1s and have no need to "gut renovate" my speakers after two weeks! They sound great, but one day the ribbon upgrades will be next.

Thanks

[JasonT35]

Would using a HTM 200SE for a center channel be a bad idea when my L and R are Sierra 2s? Or should I just continue to go with a phantom center? Due to space constraints, I cannot use a Sierra 2 for a center channel unfortunately.

[curtis]

Would using a HTM 200SE for a center channel be a bad idea when my L and R are Sierra 2s? Or should I just continue to go with a phantom center? Due to space constraints, I cannot use a Sierra 2 for a center channel unfortunately.
Definitely not a bad idea...worth a try to see what you prefer.

[davef]

Would using a HTM 200SE for a center channel be a bad idea when my L and R are Sierra 2s? Or should I just continue to go with a phantom center? Due to space constraints, I cannot use a Sierra 2 for a center channel unfortunately.

I agree with Curtis. Give it a try, we have other Sierra-2 customers doing the same.

[donaldekelly]

I suppose using a 170 for a center between two S1s is a no brainer. I don't watch many movies, though. 95% music. Worth a try or just a downgrade for music?

Guess I could try it - I guess the question is more general - surround sound (or a center channel at least) recommended for music? I am sure I can find this topic discussed several places.