Help with a new 2 channel amp

[ematthews]

Can anyone here help recommend a really good quality 2 channel amp. I have had multiple issues with my Emotiva XPA-2 amp and think I need to get away from the brand...This is a maybe. It's been hard to find something to replace it. Budget is $1000.
Parasound and Outlaw are what I have found.. Have no idea if their quality is any better.
I have quality on the mind with a china budget:(

[Mag_Neato]

Parasound has several 2 channel amps at or below your budget. Outlaw does not offer a 2 channel amp so you would have to get a multi channel model or 2 of their mono block amps. Either brand should be reliable.

[ematthews]

I was looking at the Outlaw Mono amps. Nad is another consideration...Would like to find a warm sounding amp if I could over the very neutral Emo amp.

[shinny]

Odyssey Stratos 175 watts, very authoritative, can be had used under $1,000. Built like a tank--smooth and powerful.

[FirstReflect]

Just one man's opinion, my favourite brands for amps are ATI and Anthem. In the case of Anthem, my particular favourite models in their lineup are towards the higher end, so that leaves ATI as the run away favourite in your case, IMO.

Just so you know, ATI is the OEM for a great many amplifier brands. B&K, Lexicon, Mark Levinson, Theta, Earthquake, Cinepro, and quite a few others that they don't state publicly due to their licensing agreements. Oh yeah, and Outlaw ;)

ATI also sells their own B-Stock amplifiers directly via ClassicAudioParts.com . You are dealing directly with ATI in the case of ClassicAudioParts (if you call them or you call ATI, the same people answer the phone ;) ). And while the items there are sold as B-Stock due to extremely minor cosmetic flaws, they still come with ATI's 7 year warranty!

So that is where I would point you in a heartbeat. If you don't see the exact ATI model you'd want to buy for the price you'd like currently listed at ClassicAudioParts, call 'em up on the phone. They're great to talk to, and they'll help you out with getting the amp you want.

That said, if you're more comfortable with brand new, Outlaw's great, too :)

[curtis]

+1 on ATI...I'm using 1505 that is around 10 years old...robust.

[merrymaid520]

I'm partial to Parasound amps. The A21 is well built and powerful! Easy to grab on used market. The high end models also run in class A for the first few watts.

[petmotel]

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-M-5010-2-Channel-Amplifier-Black/dp/B00A8EIO2E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393686926&sr=8-1&keywords=denon+amplifier+2+channel

Here is an Onkyo 75 watt stereo amp for a mere $219. I've had good luck with Onkyo gear in the past. Should be enough power unless you listen at extremely loud levels.

I am currently using 3 Anthem MCA series amps, the 2 channel version I bought this summer was $1300. My 5 channel is about 8 years old now and still works flawlessly. Very nice build quality.

Edit: One feature I really like about the Anthem amps is the signal sensing circuit that turns them on when a signal is present, and turns them off when no signal is present for about 15 minutes. I would imagine other amps will also trigger in this manner, it is very nice.

Many amps can also be triggered by another device such as the preamp, but I rarely turn mine off.

Jay

[petmotel]

Another route, here is a 250 watt Yamaha pro amplifier. $420

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-P2500S-Dual-Channel-Watt/dp/B0002E516C/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1393689028&sr=8-14&keywords=yamaha+amplifier+2+channel

Jay

[billy p]

I would like to find a 3 ch amp for my fronts....3ch amps designs are rare and expensive...like the MCA30($2500.00 cdn). I might as well go with a 5 ch amp for about the same cost my biggest concern is the chassis design, it will need to fit a certain requirement. The outlaws look really appealing but shipping restraints....I know pro amps are often a good compromise if you factor cost to power ratio but I don't like their looks...I might as well take my time and buy the right amp will last me the next 20+ yrs...like the MCA30...

Besides my MRX would have pretty good synergy with the MCA or PVA amp...

[Kisakuku]

Crown XLS 1500 for around $360 is another cost-effective option.

[SpeedD408]

I would like to find a 3 ch amp for my fronts....3ch amps designs are rare and expensive...like the MCA30($2500.00 cdn).

Look into Emotiva. They have 3-ch amp for $800 US.
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa-3

[ematthews]

So many threads recommend Pro Audio live amps? If they are so good and cheap why aren't more people buying them? I mean the Yamaha 3500 is half the price of the Parasound? Makes me really wonder if they are good for home systems.

[rsmt2000]

I am currently driving my Towers/RAAL with a marantz 1603 ( 50 watts ) which has pre outs. Just wondering if If its a good idea to add this crown NXLS1500 amp for a 2.0 set up.

[ematthews]

You need some more power in my opinion. I am pushing my Sierra 2's with a Marantz PM8004 which is 70 per channel. Not enough again..

[SpeedD408]

So many threads recommend Pro Audio live amps? If they are so good and cheap why aren't more people buying them? I mean the Yamaha 3500 is half the price of the Parasound? Makes me really wonder if they are good for home systems.

From what I can tell, the pro audio market goes for volume and the HT/audiophile market goes for quality. I say this as most of the pro audio amps I've seen used (mostly Crown and QSC) are Class D or H amps, meaning high output with low power draw. And honestly lets face it, in a concert with a 1000 screaming fans, there is so much background noise that all the details are lost so maintaining a pure Class A sound is just not needed. Also a lot of pro audio amps are designed to be rack mounted and have internal fans. Therefore they are meant to be put away in a closet and not see or heard.

[Kisakuku]

And honestly lets face it, in a concert with a 1000 screaming fans, there is so much background noise that all the details are lost so maintaining a pure Class A sound is just not needed.

You're assuming that there is an audible difference between well-implemented Class A and Class D amps.

[SpeedD408]

You're assuming that there is an audible difference between well-implemented Class A and Class D amps.

Maybe a little. I am assuming the background noise is higher because it is (people talking, etc.) However, I if you look at my signature line you'll notice that I use an Emotiva MPS-2 amp. That amp chassis, as 7 EPM-300 modules in it, which are Class H amps (200@8, 300@4 and 400@2 ohms). So I'm not one of those "Class A tube amp" or nothing type people.

I honestly think the big issue with pro gear is that they have internal fans to keep them cool and most of them are not nice looking. Therefore people don't like the fan noise and the wife/girl friend things they are ugly (which most of them are).

[Kisakuku]

Maybe a little. I am assuming the background noise is higher because it is (people talking, etc.)

Not sure if I follow. We're talking about both amp types being used in a home theater environment, right?

[ematthews]

Well for me this is in a music only system. 11x13 room. I listen to a lot of ambient rock/prog rock.. some call it space rock.. there is times when this type of music really gets low for some times...I need a quiet amp by all means.

[bkdc]

I'll rock the boat here. I used to own some expensive and heavy Class A/B amplifiers. People think they can hear the difference between solid state amplifiers, but if you blind them, it's all fantasy. You can hear the difference when there's distortion (tube amplifiers). Otherwise, the role of the amplifier is to be transparent. And solid state amplifiers are all essentially transparent. Find an amplifier that has the stability and power output you need and don't look back.

I recommend you do a little reading on psychoacoustics and amplifiers. All the audiophiles insist that their ears are superhuman and they perceive differences. But psychoacoustics is like that. Even when there is no difference, you will perceive one.

I switched to Class D amplifiers to save my back from lifting 80-pound monoliths. I built some out of ICEpower and Abletec modules. And I have no regrets. Human ears cannot hear the distortions of class D switching.

[ematthews]

So with that said, the Emotiva amps should sound as good and the same as any other Hifi amp?
I am guessing that it's my preamp {emotiva usp-1} that has the sound change then......Because the Harmon Kardon HK3490 sounds better to my ears than the USP-1 and XPA-2 set up.. The HK3490 doesn't sound as bright..
So we established that amps sound the same but Pre-amps don't... Correct?

[shinny]

So with that said, the Emotiva amps should sound as good and the same as any other Hifi amp?
I am guessing that it's my preamp {emotiva usp-1} that has the sound change then......Because the Harmon Kardon HK3490 sounds better to my ears than the USP-1 and XPA-2 set up.. The HK3490 doesn't sound as bright..
So we established that amps sound the same but Pre-amps don't... Correct?

Find a Wyred4Sound amp to audition-class D, powerful, good bass and clarity, reasonable $. My 250w ST500 is great and as a bonus runs very coool.

[billy p]

Find a Wyred4Sound amp to audition-class D, powerful, good bass and clarity, reasonable $. My 250w ST500 is great and as a bonus runs very coool.

Yup the mini MC 3ch has being high on my radar for some time...As for the pro audio stuff they simple don't meet my criteria for home use...regardless of the excellent value they offer I don't like their looks at all. For me that matters unfortunately in the end, that's going to cost me!

My AV stuff goes in a credenza...I don't like the look of AV racks in my case. Space is also limited... width is fine but depth & height is more of a concern since I'll need to use my MRX as a pre in this case and sit on top.

Its not always about shear value...like in the case of pro audio gear...I for one put a large emphasis on aesthetics...I just do...sorry if I offend some of you value seekers out there.:)

[ematthews]

I hear you. Love the way my stuff looks on the rack. It's all apart of the fun.

[bkdc]

Yes. The summary is -- reasonable solid state amplifiers are transparent to sound and they will all sound the same on blind testing. The audiophile reviews about this and that amplifier sounding a certain way is hogwash designed to try to sell you expensive equipment. The exception is if there is intentional distortion introduced (such as in a tube amplifier). You merely need your amplifier to have enough power and be stable enough to drive your speakers at the levels you need them driven at. And obviously, you want one that's well built since you want to want it to keep cranking out sweet music for decades.

If you plan on keeping them in a credenza, the only issue would be with air circulation and heat if you're leaning toward a class B or class A/B amplifier. Your amp may run warm. The benefit of class D (except for the small weight and size) is that they are 85+% efficient and generate very little heat due to their efficiency. Much safer in an enclosed case.

[ematthews]

Anyone here have an opinion on running the Outlaw Audio 2200 mono amps with my Sierra 2's? I am wondering if this is a better way to go instead of going to the Parasound amp or even as a last resort, another Emotiva XPA-2.

[shinny]

Yup the mini MC 3ch has being high on my radar for some time...As for the pro audio stuff they simple don't meet my criteria for home use...regardless of the excellent value they offer I don't like their looks at all. For me that matters unfortunately in the end, that's going to cost me!

My AV stuff goes in a credenza...I don't like the look of AV racks in my case. Space is also limited... width is fine but depth & height is more of a concern since I'll need to use my MRX as a pre in this case and sit on top.

Its not always about shear value...like in the case of pro audio gear...I for one put a large emphasis on aesthetics...I just do...sorry if I offend some of you value seekers out there.:)
Sure, I understand, to each his own. I gave up the receiver thing for separates quite a while ago and having been enjoying ever since. I liked the look in my college room though.

[curtis]

You need some more power in my opinion. I am pushing my Sierra 2's with a Marantz PM8004 which is 70 per channel. Not enough again..
With that much power, you should be hitting 97db peaks at 10' with two speakers in a typical room if the speakers are away from walls...closer to wall would be even louder.

97dB is pretty loud.

Of course, that is if the volume dial is turned all the way up and the spec is honest.

[curtis]

I have a 500wpc 2-channel ICEPower based amp that I am willing to let anyone try if we can work out shipping and assurances.

I am simplifying my system, and just using all five-channels of my 150 wpc ATI amp.

[ematthews]

I haven't turned the volume on the PM 8004 past 12:00
Let me know about that amp.. im looking as you can see.

[curtis]

I haven't turned the volume on the PM 8004 past 12:00
Let me know about that amp.. im looking as you can see.
You should just turn it up higher.

The amp uses 1000ASP ICEpower modules.

[ematthews]

Just an update. Emotiva stepped up and helped me out in a big way. Thanks to everyone here and at Emotiva..

[sesquipedalian]

So with that said, the Emotiva amps should sound as good and the same as any other Hifi amp?
I am guessing that it's my preamp {emotiva usp-1} that has the sound change then......Because the Harmon Kardon HK3490 sounds better to my ears than the USP-1 and XPA-2 set up.. The HK3490 doesn't sound as bright..
So we established that amps sound the same but Pre-amps don't... Correct?

I had the USP-1 and XPA-2 for a while, but the volume step control of the USP-1 was too much (perhaps even more pronounced with the 32dB gain of the XPA-2). I replaced the USP-1 with an XSP-1, and that made a significant difference in the sound quality and level of volume control. I ended up selling my XPA-2 (gen 1) and purchased a pair of XPA-1L monoblocks. The harshness/brightness of the XPA-2 was evident (to my ears) compared to the XPA-1L (29dB gain), but it was a subtle difference. Perhaps the 30W of initial class A power helped smooth things out? I only tend to listen at 70-85dB levels and rarely above 80dB if that matters.

I am happy with the XPA-1L amps and XSP-1 pre-amp combined with the Sierra Towers.

[ematthews]

I do know they turned the gain down to 29 on the Gen 2 version. To be honest, I don't know what this means.. In any case I had an issues with the USP-1 volume as well. I used attenuates on the XPA input to help with the harsh volume.. I think the new XSP would help with this too.

[sesquipedalian]

Most of what I know comes from this Audioholics article (http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/amplifier-voltage-gain)

I tried attenuators for a while, but they seemed to reduce both the volume and the detailed sound (dynamic range?) that I was used to hearing. It was a good stop-gap measure at the time. I wonder if people find any need for attenuators with the USP-1 and Emotiva Gen 2 amps.

Emotiva has excellent customer service.

[ematthews]

I only used them for a short time for the same reason as well... I do think they took some of the harshness out when music was played loud... I am in the process of either getting the XSP or the Parasound P5.

[curtis]

Reducing the gain...depending on the pre-amp/reciever, may mean you are not able to utilize the full power of the amplifier.

[ematthews]

As far as I know the specs on the XSP-1 and the Parasound should be fine with the XDA-2 Gen 2 @ 29db gain.. Correct me if I am wrong. If so then I need to find an different preamp to buy.

[curtis]

As far as I know the specs on the XSP-1 and the Parasound should be fine with the XDA-2 Gen 2 @ 29db gain.. Correct me if I am wrong. If so then I need to find an different preamp to buy.
Yeah...I would hope they would work well together.

I'm always skeptical of manufacturers' specs/claims if I can't get first hand experience...so I let others test first. :)

[RPM]

I went from a parasound 2100 to the Emotiva XSP-1 Pre-amp ...the precision and repeatability
of the Emo volume control is fantastic, running with a Gen2 XPA-2 (which replaced a parasound 2125)
for the money is a fantastic combo.

[ematthews]

Thanks for the info on that. I was looking at the P5 over the 2100..

[merrymaid520]

Thanks for the info on that. I was looking at the P5 over the 2100..

I just got the P5 which replaced a 2100. No major differences besides the nicer volume control etc. I didn't directly compare them. Both sound leaps and bounds better than my yamaha receiver.

[ematthews]

Any thought here on if the Parasound 2100 is better than the Emo USP-1? The volume control on the USP-1 is not so good...

[bkdc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

[RPM]

Ive heard nothing but bad things on the USP-1 volume control, I thought the 2100
control was not bad. And the unit sounds very good.