Center Speaker Dilemma

[MbA7601]

Hey guys,

Hoping I could get some advice.. I recently got a set of LCR Sierra 1s NRT in Piano Black..

Not only are they amazing to look at, I am absolutely blown away by them, and my klipsch towers have been sold.

So, here starts my question/issue. They not only sound great with music, but TV and movies also sound great, and the center is very clear.. However, I can't help but now be curious about the Horizon.. I definitely have the space, and would be willing to spend the cash if it is well worth it. Like I said the Sierra center sounds great, no complaints.. Not sure if getting the RAAL will blend well with the NRT on the Sierra? I don't think I could afford the RAAL upgrade for the Sierras for a bit, so id probably keep the NRTs for a while..

Thoughts/opinions?

Thanks for all the help.

Mike

[natetg57]

Are you eventually getting the towers? If so, getting the Horizon now makes some sense so as to split up the investment. If your keeping the bookshelves for your front mains, than maybe it'd be better to upgrade all three to Sierra-2's. I think getting a Horizon in piano black is difficult/costly as well.

[MbA7601]

Nate thanks for the response. I also considered upgrading all 3 to the RAAL, as opposed to the Horizon... Wanted to get some opinions first..

[FirstReflect]

I have 3 custom Sierra Horizon RAAL speakers up front, and Sierra-1 NrT speakers in the Surround positions. I also have a pair of custom Sierra bookshelf speakers with the Horizon dedicated mid-range driver and the same RAAL 70-20XR ribbon tweeter in them as my Front Wide speakers.

I can tell you, based upon my listening experience, that there is a discernible difference and improvement in going from the Sierra-1 NrT speakers to the Sierra Horizon RAAL.

Now, you are already experiencing for yourself how excellent the Sierra-1 NrT speakers are. What the Horizon RAAL does is it refines that sound, and takes it to a level of realism that is basically about as good as it gets when it comes to sound reproduction. I've listened to a ton of speakers. A VERY scant few can deliver that sort of uncanny realism - where you're fooled into thinking that it's not even speakers making the sound, but just real live voices and instruments in your room. That's where the Horizon RAAL takes things. You go from the Sierra-1 NrT where you're saying, "man, these are excellent speakers!" to, "what speakers? Everything just sounds real!"

As such, if you're going to upgrade to the Horizon RAAL Center, you should plan on eventually upgrading your Front Main speakers, as well. You don't have to do it immediately. You don't have to do it at all if you really don't want to. But, I'm just letting you know: once you hear the Horizon RAAL, you're just going to want to upgrade your Front Mains - I can practically guarantee it. haha

It's really, really important that I stress how good the Sierra-1 NrT speakers are. I do NOT want you thinking that you're "missing" something or anything like that. You're hearing for yourself how good they are. Do not doubt your own impressions for a minute! You're on the money :) And the timbre match between the Sierra-1 NrT and the Horizon RAAL remains very, very good. It's not as though voices or instruments take on a different tonal quality if they pan from a Sierra-1 NrT to a Horizon RAAL. The sound remains very neutral and accurate through both speakers.

But, the way I would describe it, it's like you're looking through a very clean window when the sound is coming through the Sierra-1 NrT, and then when it comes through the Horizon RAAL, it's like the glass is removed entirely. It's just, like, "oh, wow. That's just clearer, and pristine, and REAL."

So, continuing to use your Sierra-1 NrT while using a Horizon RAAL Center is not a terrible idea or anything. You won't be sitting there regretting the purchase because there's some big mismatch in the overall sound quality. The NrT tweeter and the RAAL tweeter offer very similar frequency response and dispersion, so they sound more alike than different. But, the RAAL is just the ultimate refined version. It's just clearer and more real-sounding.

The bigger difference is in the mid-range. The dedicated mid-range driver in the Horizon is a significant step up over the Sierra-1 NrT's woofer. And that is really saying something! Again, you're already hearing how good the Sierra-1 NrT is! But, it's a similar situation. It's most apparent with voices, since we've naturally evolved to hear the mid-range best, and the human voice falls within the mid-range. It all makes sense :) Again, it's just the extra level of refinement, clarity, and realism. And since our hearing is so attuned to the mid-range, and human voices in particular, if you're going to notice any sort of "mismatch" between the Sierra-1 NrT and the Horizon, that is where it will be. Voices coming out of the Horizon will just have that extra level of uncanny realism, whereas the Sierra-1 NrT will just continue to sound like excellent, excellent speakers ;)

I don't know if any of that is helpful -- haha. But, I'm seeing all of the early Sierra-2 owners and upgraders describing VERY similar attributes. It really does seem as though the Sierra-2 is just a miniature Tower RAAL or Horizon RAAL. And that's amazing!

The Tower RAAL and Horizon RAAL remain the flagship speakers because they still have the edge in sheer loudness of output and dynamics. They have bigger boxes, more drivers, and a physically larger tweeter. So, if you know you're going to want to crank things up, I think your goal should be to eventually upgrade to the Towers RAAL and Horizon RAAL as your Front 3 speakers.

But, if you don't need the absolute maximum in output capabilities, upgrading all of your existing Sierra-1 NrT to Sierra-2 does seem like an excellent path! Like I say, as far as I can tell from what everyone is saying about them - and those are their own words, just commenting on what immediately strikes them about the Sierra-2's sound quality - the Sierra-2 have the added clarity and realism offered by the Horizon RAAL. It's just a smaller, less expensive version that can't play quite as loud. That's a pretty sweet deal :D

Hope that's of some help!

- Rob H.

[MbA7601]

I have 3 custom Sierra Horizon RAAL speakers up front, and Sierra-1 NrT speakers in the Surround positions. I also have a pair of custom Sierra bookshelf speakers with the Horizon dedicated mid-range driver and the same RAAL 70-20XR ribbon tweeter in them as my Front Wide speakers.

I can tell you, based upon my listening experience, that there is a discernible difference and improvement in going from the Sierra-1 NrT speakers to the Sierra Horizon RAAL.

Now, you are already experiencing for yourself how excellent the Sierra-1 NrT speakers are. What the Horizon RAAL does is it refines that sound, and takes it to a level of realism that is basically about as good as it gets when it comes to sound reproduction. I've listened to a ton of speakers. A VERY scant few can deliver that sort of uncanny realism - where you're fooled into thinking that it's not even speakers making the sound, but just real live voices and instruments in your room. That's where the Horizon RAAL takes things. You go from the Sierra-1 NrT where you're saying, "man, these are excellent speakers!" to, "what speakers? Everything just sounds real!"

As such, if you're going to upgrade to the Horizon RAAL Center, you should plan on eventually upgrading your Front Main speakers, as well. You don't have to do it immediately. You don't have to do it at all if you really don't want to. But, I'm just letting you know: once you hear the Horizon RAAL, you're just going to want to upgrade your Front Mains - I can practically guarantee it. haha

It's really, really important that I stress how good the Sierra-1 NrT speakers are. I do NOT want you thinking that you're "missing" something or anything like that. You're hearing for yourself how good they are. Do not doubt your own impressions for a minute! You're on the money :) And the timbre match between the Sierra-1 NrT and the Horizon RAAL remains very, very good. It's not as though voices or instruments take on a different tonal quality if they pan from a Sierra-1 NrT to a Horizon RAAL. The sound remains very neutral and accurate through both speakers.

But, the way I would describe it, it's like you're looking through a very clean window when the sound is coming through the Sierra-1 NrT, and then when it comes through the Horizon RAAL, it's like the glass is removed entirely. It's just, like, "oh, wow. That's just clearer, and pristine, and REAL."

So, continuing to use your Sierra-1 NrT while using a Horizon RAAL Center is not a terrible idea or anything. You won't be sitting there regretting the purchase because there's some big mismatch in the overall sound quality. The NrT tweeter and the RAAL tweeter offer very similar frequency response and dispersion, so they sound more alike than different. But, the RAAL is just the ultimate refined version. It's just clearer and more real-sounding.

The bigger difference is in the mid-range. The dedicated mid-range driver in the Horizon is a significant step up over the Sierra-1 NrT's woofer. And that is really saying something! Again, you're already hearing how good the Sierra-1 NrT is! But, it's a similar situation. It's most apparent with voices, since we've naturally evolved to hear the mid-range best, and the human voice falls within the mid-range. It all makes sense :) Again, it's just the extra level of refinement, clarity, and realism. And since our hearing is so attuned to the mid-range, and human voices in particular, if you're going to notice any sort of "mismatch" between the Sierra-1 NrT and the Horizon, that is where it will be. Voices coming out of the Horizon will just have that extra level of uncanny realism, whereas the Sierra-1 NrT will just continue to sound like excellent, excellent speakers ;)

I don't know if any of that is helpful -- haha. But, I'm seeing all of the early Sierra-2 owners and upgraders describing VERY similar attributes. It really does seem as though the Sierra-2 is just a miniature Tower RAAL or Horizon RAAL. And that's amazing!

The Tower RAAL and Horizon RAAL remain the flagship speakers because they still have the edge in sheer loudness of output and dynamics. They have bigger boxes, more drivers, and a physically larger tweeter. So, if you know you're going to want to crank things up, I think your goal should be to eventually upgrade to the Towers RAAL and Horizon RAAL as your Front 3 speakers.

But, if you don't need the absolute maximum in output capabilities, upgrading all of your existing Sierra-1 NrT to Sierra-2 does seem like an excellent path! Like I say, as far as I can tell from what everyone is saying about them - and those are their own words, just commenting on what immediately strikes them about the Sierra-2's sound quality - the Sierra-2 have the added clarity and realism offered by the Horizon RAAL. It's just a smaller, less expensive version that can't play quite as loud. That's a pretty sweet deal :D

Hope that's of some help!

- Rob H.

Yes! Thank you very very much for your help. That definitely answered my question.. Lastly, does the High Gloss Black Horizon somewhat match the piano black Sierras? Or would there be a big difference between the two finishes?

Mike

[FirstReflect]

I haven't seen it in person, but it's a pretty big difference between the high gloss black and the piano black, apparently. The piano black that you have is like a mirror finish. The high gloss black is just glossy, but not like a mirror.

It's a challenge because Ascend has two different cabinet makers. One is domestic in the USA, and the second one is overseas.

The piano black finishes are done overseas to keep the cost lower, I believe. But, they don't make any Horizon cabinets over there.

You can get a piano black Horizon, but it will have to be a custom order. Ascend either has to have a cabinet finisher do a piano black finish domestically, or they have to ship your Horizon all the way overseas to have it finished as a one-off, and then ship it all the way back. So, either way, that makes the cost go up by several hundred dollars, and there's a wait time, obviously, plus, you wouldn't be able to return the speaker for a full refund -- custom order sales are final.

Sorry that I forgot to address that issue, but it does throw a bit of a wrench into things.

Do you use your speakers with the grills on, though? If you do, there's a decent chance that the high gloss black finish would suffice. With the grill on, not much of the speaker cabinet is visible from the front (the grill covers the entire front face), so, that is one option. If you use the speaker with the grill off, though, then the difference in the finish will be pretty obvious, I would think.

When it comes to anything to do with the finish, though, it is definitely best to email or call Ascend, or send DaveF a private message here on the forum. Ascend is very accommodating when it comes to such things :) It is very much worth your time to speak with them, regardless! I think you'll be just as impressed with their customer service and willingness to answer your questions and address your concerns as you are with the Sierra-1 NrT speakers! So, give them a ring because they will also help you in making your decision about your Center speaker :)

[MbA7601]

I haven't seen it in person, but it's a pretty big difference between the high gloss black and the piano black, apparently. The piano black that you have is like a mirror finish. The high gloss black is just glossy, but not like a mirror.

It's a challenge because Ascend has two different cabinet makers. One is domestic in the USA, and the second one is overseas.

The piano black finishes are done overseas to keep the cost lower, I believe. But, they don't make any Horizon cabinets over there.

You can get a piano black Horizon, but it will have to be a custom order. Ascend either has to have a cabinet finisher do a piano black finish domestically, or they have to ship your Horizon all the way overseas to have it finished as a one-off, and then ship it all the way back. So, either way, that makes the cost go up by several hundred dollars, and there's a wait time, obviously, plus, you wouldn't be able to return the speaker for a full refund -- custom order sales are final.

Sorry that I forgot to address that issue, but it does throw a bit of a wrench into things.

Do you use your speakers with the grills on, though? If you do, there's a decent chance that the high gloss black finish would suffice. With the grill on, not much of the speaker cabinet is visible from the front (the grill covers the entire front face), so, that is one option. If you use the speaker with the grill off, though, then the difference in the finish will be pretty obvious, I would think.

When it comes to anything to do with the finish, though, it is definitely best to email or call Ascend, or send DaveF a private message here on the forum. Ascend is very accommodating when it comes to such things :) It is very much worth your time to speak with them, regardless! I think you'll be just as impressed with their customer service and willingness to answer your questions and address your concerns as you are with the Sierra-1 NrT speakers! So, give them a ring because they will also help you in making your decision about your Center speaker :)

Yeah, I would use it with the grill on, so I doubt it would be very noticeable from my sitting area. I will talk to him about it and see if I can get some pics or something to compare.

FR, thank you for all your help, you've been great.

Mike