RAAL upgrade after purchase?

[Joechoes]

Sorry if this topic has been covered. I have been searching for about an hour (probably in the wrong places) and could not find the answer.

I think the title covers my question, but I will restate it for clarity.

I plan to buy some Sierra Towers and would LOVE to get them with the RAAL tweeters, but could not possibly afford that any time soon and I am anxious to replace my Aperion's.

So, is it possible to buy the Sierra Towers and then at a later date when I have more money buy the tweeters and put them in myself?

Thanks

[Mag_Neato]

Yes, you can.

However......It would involve swapping the crossover as well. Also, You would have to physically modify the tweeter cutout in the NrT equipped cabinet.

[Joechoes]

Yes, you can.

However......It would involve swapping the crossover as well. Also, You would have to physically modify the tweeter cutout in the NrT equipped cabinet.

That (modifying the tweeter cutout) sounds well beyond my capabilities....
I suppose the cost to send it in and have Ascend make the change for me would cost well over the $700 it would cost to have them installed initially then?

Guess I will be saving for a while longer...:(

[Mag_Neato]

I don't think it is anything too extreme. Simply cutting out a bit of the opening for the housing of the RAAL tweeter. The faceplate is the same fit as the NrT including the screw holes. I think if you have a Dremel or similar you are good to go.

[Joechoes]

Ok, that sounds do able.
How much for the parts?

If you do the upgrade at the initial purchase then you don't have to factor in the "original" tweeter and crossover into the cost, so I assume it will be more than $700 to buy the RAAL tweeters and crossovers for two speakers when buying them as a later upgrade.?

[RicardoJoa]

I think it would be cheaper to buy it straight the raal version. Otherwise, you would be paying extrz for the parts you dont need when you upgrade to raal.

[pierreterrier]

Plus just paying for the shipping of those towers both ways will set you back about $200 I believe.

[billy p]

If you feel that strongly about going with the RAAL...then just wait it out. Having paid for return shipping a couple of times it does starts to add up....although...I have no regrets it wasn't like adding a postage stamp and sending them off...:D

[Joechoes]

I will wait.
I will keep an eye out for some b-stock or used ones on Audiogon.

I originally thought I wanted Aperion Verus Grands, but the more I research the more I believe I will be happier with Sierra's. I am looking for neutral sound that does not sound like it is coming from a box.
I have not auditioned any speakers yet though.

[Mag_Neato]

I will wait.
I will keep an eye out for some b-stock or used ones on Audiogon.

I originally thought I wanted Aperion Verus Grands, but the more I research the more I believe I will be happier with Sierra's. I am looking for neutral sound that does not sound like it is coming from a box.
I have not auditioned any speakers yet though.

If you can wait and save a little longer, it will definitely be more economical in the long term than buying the NrT Tower now and upgrading later.

[FirstReflect]

Yes, in total price, upgrading to the RAAL tweeters later will be more expensive than just paying $700 up front for the upgrade. But there's some value in having the standard NrT Tower right away, and then paying maybe a couple hundred extra over the $700 upgrade cost later.

The RAAL 70-20XR is not a "drop in" replacement for the NrT. You do have to cut the cabinet for the 70-20XR. Since I'm no good at that stuff, I'd personally choose to ship the Towers back to Ascend and have them do it. But, if you're handier than I, I'm certain the good folks at Ascend could tell you the exact dimensions for the RAAL tweeter opening. As was mentioned, the front face plate is exactly the same shape and size as the NrT. So, it's only the cut out that needs to be modified. I'm certain it is doable :)

But, yeah, it's not quite as easy as the Sierra-1 bookshelf speaker upgrades. Dave went to great lengths to make sure that the new Sierra-2 drivers would swap right into those cabinets -- no cutting or modification needed to the cabinet what-so-ever! The Sierra Towers and Horizon have to be cut, though.

Dave is ridiculously reasonable when it comes to pricing. Just due to shipping and the crossover change that would also be required, it will have to cost more than $700 to upgrade the tweeters at a later date. But, I'd suggest contacting Ascend and finding out. They honestly charge as little as possible for these sorts of things, so it might be very acceptable to you :)

Anywho, yes, you'd have to modify the cabinets a little bit, and pay a bit more than $700 when all is said and done. But, how much is being able to enjoy the standard NrT Towers for a few months (or however long) in between? If it's worth maybe a couple hundred dollars extra to you, then it might be totally worth your while to buy the standard towers right now, and upgrade to the RAAL tweeters when you're able.

:)

[Joechoes]

Yes, in total price, upgrading to the RAAL tweeters later will be more expensive than just paying $700 up front for the upgrade. But there's some value in having the standard NrT Tower right away, and then paying maybe a couple hundred extra over the $700 upgrade cost later.

The RAAL 70-20XR is not a "drop in" replacement for the NrT. You do have to cut the cabinet for the 70-20XR. Since I'm no good at that stuff, I'd personally choose to ship the Towers back to Ascend and have them do it. But, if you're handier than I, I'm certain the good folks at Ascend could tell you the exact dimensions for the RAAL tweeter opening. As was mentioned, the front face plate is exactly the same shape and size as the NrT. So, it's only the cut out that needs to be modified. I'm certain it is doable :)

But, yeah, it's not quite as easy as the Sierra-1 bookshelf speaker upgrades. Dave went to great lengths to make sure that the new Sierra-2 drivers would swap right into those cabinets -- no cutting or modification needed to the cabinet what-so-ever! The Sierra Towers and Horizon have to be cut, though.

Dave is ridiculously reasonable when it comes to pricing. Just due to shipping and the crossover change that would also be required, it will have to cost more than $700 to upgrade the tweeters at a later date. But, I'd suggest contacting Ascend and finding out. They honestly charge as little as possible for these sorts of things, so it might be very acceptable to you :)

Anywho, yes, you'd have to modify the cabinets a little bit, and pay a bit more than $700 when all is said and done. But, how much is being able to enjoy the standard NrT Towers for a few months (or however long) in between? If it's worth maybe a couple hundred dollars extra to you, then it might be totally worth your while to buy the standard towers right now, and upgrade to the RAAL tweeters when you're able.

:)

You make a very compelling argument since I am very anxious to have the speakers. Also, I read somewhere in these forums a person state they preferred the NRT's for ht. That person also stated they were listening to towers with the NRT's and the Horizon with a RAAL and it integrated quite well. My listening will be primarily ht (probably 90%) so I might prefer the NRT's on my left and right channels.

[Mr McIntosh]

Are the Raals less fatiguing?

My wife has an issue listening to an overly bright tweeter...is the Raal a "warmer" tweeter over the Nrt?

Listen to music 80% of the time.

[Mag_Neato]

The RAAL tweeter actually extends higher than the NrT. It simply has no harshness with greater detail. It's hard to imagine what that sounds like but when you hear it you will have an "Aha" moment.

[choirbass]

Hm. I suppose you could think of the differences as, real vs not real. That's way overly simplified, but maybe that's honestly the biggest difference. I haven't 'yet' ordered the S-2s myself.. but that really is something to look forward to :)

[petmotel]

Someone contemplating the NRT to RAAL upgrade might want to check on the pricing for doing this. Remember that the $700/pair price is for upgrading from the NRT, which is itself a rather expensive tweeter. The NRT is a $300 upgrade over the standard Sierra-1 tweeter, which itself has some worth. Point being, to outright purchase the 70-20 XR tweeters (plus crossovers) is likely going to be a good bit more than $700. I have a feeling it would be quite a bit less expensive to order the RAALs up front.

Jay

[Mag_Neato]

Someone contemplating the NRT to RAAL upgrade might want to check on the pricing for doing this. Remember that the $700/pair price is for upgrading from the NRT, which is itself a rather expensive tweeter. The NRT is a $300 upgrade over the standard Sierra-1 tweeter, which itself has some worth. Point being, to outright purchase the 70-20 XR tweeters (plus crossovers) is likely going to be a good bit more than $700. I have a feeling it would be quite a bit less expensive to order the RAALs up front.

Jay

Are we talking about modding the Sierra-1 to the 70-20XR RAAL w/crossover, or the Sierra-2 upgrade? Two very different paths. For me to upgrade my Sierra-1 NrT's to the Sierra-2 was intro-priced at $388 per speaker. There is a refund on original parts. For the NrT tweeter & crossover + original woofer I will receive $63 per speaker($126 total) back from Ascend. The original Sierra-1 components are roughly 1/2 this amount.

The NrT upgrade was a tweeter and crossover swap. The Sierra-2 is a complete gutting of the components: RAAL tweeter, SEAS woofer and new crossover. Each speaker alone cost more than the total NrT upgrade for both speakers.

[petmotel]

Are we talking about modding the Sierra-1 to the 70-20XR RAAL w/crossover, or the Sierra-2 upgrade? Two very different paths. For me to upgrade my Sierra-1 NrT's to the Sierra-2 was intro-priced at $388 per speaker. There is a refund on original parts. For the NrT tweeter & crossover + original woofer I will receive $63 per speaker($126 total) back from Ascend. The original Sierra-1 components are roughly 1/2 this amount.

The NrT upgrade was a tweeter and crossover swap. The Sierra-2 is a complete gutting of the components: RAAL tweeter, SEAS woofer and new crossover. Each speaker alone cost more than the total NrT upgrade for both speakers.

The OP was questioning upgrading Sierra Towers at some point after purchase of standard NRT equipped. So that would mean cutting the cabs to fit the 70-20 XR, new crossover, and installing the tweeters.

Jay

[Mag_Neato]

The OP was questioning upgrading Sierra Towers at some point after purchase of standard NRT equipped. So that would mean cutting the cabs to fit the 70-20 XR, new crossover, and installing the tweeters.

Jay

Ah.....gotcha. I have Sierra-2 on the brain!

Yeah, the tower upgrade is a bit more complex as Jay said, and may make more sense to bite the bullet upfront if you plan on going with them at some point.

[petmotel]

Are the Raals less fatiguing?

My wife has an issue listening to an overly bright tweeter...is the Raal a "warmer" tweeter over the Nrt?

Listen to music 80% of the time.

If you think about the fact that a true ribbon speaker has as its only moving part the thin aluminum ribbon element, you might visualize that the moving mass of these RAAL tweeters is extremely small. As a result, the sounds they reproduce are very true to the signal, without ringing, or artifacts common to transducers with voice coils, and domes/cones. Because a tweeter is operating at such high speeds, this is a tremendous advantage due to the frequency range in which they operate.

Jay

[Mr McIntosh]

If you think about the fact that a true ribbon speaker has as its only moving part the thin aluminum ribbon element, you might visualize that the moving mass of these RAAL tweeters is extremely small. As a result, the sounds they reproduce are very true to the signal, without ringing, or artifacts common to transducers with voice coils, and domes/cones. Because a tweeter is operating at such high speeds, this is a tremendous advantage due to the frequency range in which they operate.

Jay


Thanks Jay..that answers my question