DaveF's HTPC - Come Help Dave Get the Most Out of His New Toy!

[FirstReflect]

Hi, everyone!

As a thank you for Dave's tremendous work on my order of 11 custom speakers, I made him a Windows Media Center movie server with 10 Blu-ray movies that I thought would make good demo material loaded onto it.

I love my own HTPC, but I really only use it as a movie and music playback machine. I'm far from an expert on HTPCs. So I'm hoping some of you knowledgeable folks will be willing to chip in and offer additional advice!

Dave and I have already chatted back and forth a few times about different formats and expanding the capabilities of the HTPC that I made for him. But I can only offer my own opinions, experiences, and limited knowledge.

I made a whole bunch of videos showcasing the hardware, software, and setup that I used. For anyone who is brand new to HTPCs, they might be helpful to you. For folks who know a lot more than me, you can see what I've provided as a starting point for Dave :)

I had intended to put all these videos on YouTube for easy viewing, but a bunch of them got blocked because they show some video from the movies that I loaded onto the HTPC :mad: It really ought to fall under Fair Use as I am narrating over top of the video, and it is for instructional purposes, but YouTube isn't into making that kind of judgement call -- haha.

So, I've uploaded them to some Dropbox folders. I'm not sure how well they will work, or if Dropbox will place a limit on the bandwidth and number of downloads. But you should be able to either view the videos directly, or download the folders as .zip files.

Here are the folder links:

Most Important Vids (16): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pgfm4l84lr5dw6u/aFtoqwxEcW

Common Glitches (6): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7g20179oi7wb628/goQfIeUvtF

Backing Up (Ripping) Blu-rays (7): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/k2camvpgb7hqarm/hvdMy2sPGP

More Information Vids (8): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/axvzdcqy6xorsd0/NmJeChLM3i

Movie Startup Demos (7): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8r9tknb4qx7jq8u/ux_5i8Bjsu

Since there is more than an hour of video, I split them up into topics. But you'll notice the videos are numbered; so, if you'd like to view them all in sequence, I'd recommend just downloading the full folders and then you can watch the videos in numbered sequence more easily :)

Please let me know if there are any problems with viewing/downloading the videos.

Oh, and if anyone happens to recognize my voice, I guess I can reveal my "secret" identity now -- haha. I am actually Rob H. from the AVRant podcast, better known as FirstReflect on social media, or FirstReflection on the Audioholics forum. I've never intended to mislead anyone -- I joined the forum here at Ascend way, way back when I was still in high school! And this "Jonathan Teller" screen name was simply a character I happened to be playing in a play at the time, and I used the name here as my screen name on a whim, and just never bothered to change it -- haha.

So, feel free to call me "Rob" or "Jonathan" or "weirdo" -- doesn't matter to me :) But, yeah, sorry if anyone feels put off by the whole name thing, but it really was just me picking a screen name on a whim many years ago :p

I'd love to read anyone's feedback! Dave seems to be genuinely enjoying this gift, but I'd really like to help him get the most out of it, and to hopefully have it do everything that he wants from it!

Thanks,

Rob H. / Jon / weirdo -- ;)

[eliwankenobi]

Hello Rob!!

Always looking forward to hear you, Liz and Tom at AVRant... By the way.. The "Eli" from my screenname "eliwankenobi" is from my second name Eliazar. Heard on the podcast that somebody else has a name like mine and you guys wondered if there is another person with that name as well....well, here I am!

Any who... Will download the videos. If I can help with anything I will sure post it here.

I have a laptop from work that is also my htpc, and I love the convenience it brings... Htpc is the way to go in my opinion.

[Harro]

I recently bought http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/nuc.html an Intel Nuc for my bedroom and wow this little thing runs great. I use a free software program called XBMC http://xbmc.org/. I house all my media in a 32TB NAS server and the NUC just streams everything to my TV. I love it.

Great work building a HTPC. Enjoy.

[eliwankenobi]

Hello,

I watched almost all of the videos. Very well laid out and easy to understand. Kudos on that Rob!!

The only thing that I could recommend is the use of JRiver Media Center software for media playback in general. Many people think that JRiver is just audiophile music software, but all it does with audio, it does as well very very good with video and then some.

Once you have your folder structure well planned, the same way it is on Dave's HTPC, and Any DVD HD as it is configured on the PC, the file management is much better from what I have seen on the videos. The software itself loads all the metadata from IMDB like MyMovies does, it has a very cool interface for loading movies similar to the Kaleidescape server (once you load the theater view) but much more cheap. And on top of that you have all the good stuff in regards to audio that the software is most famous for which can be applied to the audio on the video files, Like Using Wasapi to bypass the native Windows mixer and send bit perfect audio to the AVR through the hdmi ouput. So with the software you have all the playback capability for audio and video in one package.

I usually jump from a stereo file to a multichannel audio file, and when I feel like it, within the program I go to Netflix, or watch a movie, and the go back to another album or specific song, all within the program itself. It's very versatile.

The only thing I am not sure of is if it will do 3D video playback. I can't confirm that since I don't have a 3D display and it is not high on my list right now.

I concur with you Rob on the aspect of using the keyboard. Sometimes you can do things a little quicker with the mouse or some keys on the keyboard.

I don't have a media center remote, I would need to buy the adapter to make it work with my harmony one, but I also use the WebGizmo app that can access the software from any tablet or smartphone and control the program through there.

Anyways I hope this helps.

Enjoy your gift Dave!

[FirstReflect]

Thanks, guys!

@Harro -- I might have to pick your brain about XBMC. I'm strongly considering switching everything over to XBMC in my own setup, for the simple reason that WMC does not seem long for this world :( WMC is clearly being ignored by Microsoft at this point. And, apparently, the upcoming Windows 8.1 update completely breaks almost all of the existing WMC plug-ins! MyMovies, for example, is completely broken in the current 8.1 build. There's some hope that fixes will be made. Microsoft's decision to about-face (yet again) and actually release 8.1 to developers ahead of its consumer release has revealed MANY issues.

But all of it makes me think that XBMC will be the better choice going forward. Being open source and user-driven, the sky's the limit!

@Eli -- hey, hey! Fancy meeting you here :D

Thanks so much for being an AVRant listener! And thanks for the kind words about the videos. Good to know you were able to download and view them! haha

Yes, when it comes to metadata, file organization, and interface, there are quite a few options. Dave is very much focused on music, and he's said that he never ever uses 3D. So JRiver might very well be the better solution for him.

Just to explain where I was coming from -- I'm much more movie-centric, myself. I just use iTunes for my music and podcasts. I rip all of my CDs to Apple lossless, and then anything I've downloaded is in there, too, of course. Inside WMC, I simply have all my audio within my "My Music" folder. So it all gets imported into WMC, and for MY usage, it works fine, since I really just need access to my music and other audio, but I'm not music-centric enough to demand a better interface.

On the movie side, though, I personally really want the FULL Blu-ray discs to be available. For one thing, the backups themselves are perfectly legal this way, as they are full 1:1 backups WITH all the copy protection still intact! But I also like to still have the discs' menus, all the special features, plus full 3D and HD Audio support.

It gets a bit tricky sometimes when you start converting to MKV. But one of the things Dave wants to be able to do is to have the full quality backups, and then be able to play those on pretty much any device that connects to his network. I pointed him to a good tutorial on using MakeMKV to create MKV movie files, and then to potentially use HandBrake to transcode into something that will play on, say, an iPad or AppleTV.

On the metadata side, to me, it's a bit of a balancing act between automation and user control. I'm really not familiar with how JRiver handles movie metadata. But something like MediaBrowser is what a lot of people prefer.

The reason I went with MyMovies, though, is because I find it much easier to understand and manage. All of the data is right there and easily editable. Want to rename a movie in your collection so that, say, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight show up next to each other when you're looking through your collection? No problem. Want to add more actors or crew? Go right ahead. Any of the metadata incorrect? You can easily change it.

Naturally, the trade off is that it's far less automated. As I mentioned in the videos, I don't even recommend using its automatic disc ID detection.

So it becomes a choice: more manual control, or saving far more time by having it be automated, but not as easy to fine tune. I opted for MyMovies because I like the greater degree of control, and because, as I say, I'm MUCH more into full discs. With MyMovies, I can easily have, say, Watchmen, Watchmen Director's Cut, and Watchmen Ultimate Cut all as separate entries with their own, individual cover art, running times, etc. With the more automated metadata programs, they all show up as the same, or I have to edit the XML files, which is fine, but not as user-friendly as MyMovies Collection Management interface.

Anywho, it's great to have choices! But it can also become a bit overwhelming when there are so many. I think the problem is that none of them are going to be 100% "perfect" for every user. So it's a bit of a "pick your poison" situation ;)

The good news, though, is that Dave can play around with any or all of these choices now :D I was saying to him in an email, he's probably going to end up like the rest of us HTPC users: with an open rig that he winds up just using as a guinea pig to try out all sorts of different configurations.

I think the trickiest thing with HTPCs is that, once you have yours working nicely, it is scary as hell to make any changes! haha. We've all had far too many experiences where an update or a "patch" winds up breaking functionality. So when it came to providing an HTPC as a gift, I just opted to go with what I knew would at least function well as a movie server. But Dave would like to do a lot more with it, so there are sure to be some adventures along the way -- haha.

Thanks!

[eliwankenobi]

True... pick your poison would be the best way to put it. Certainly, the way you have it setup works very well, even with the few glitches that you documented very well in your videos. I could pick that poison. JRiver is also not without its problems either. But I find that given all of the functionality it brings under "the same roof", it's amazing all it does and metadata editing is one of its greatest attributes. So far I haven't found any problems with it the 2+ years I've been using it.

The best review I've read of JRiver is from Andrew Robinson here: http://hometheaterreview.com/jriver-media-center-software-reviewed/

There is also a video overview here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6YYsYX41e4
But again, it doesn't cover all that it can do either.

I wish I had enough time to make some video tutorials showing all of what the software can do in very much the same way you did Rob. It would really be along overview, that's for sure.

You can try the software for free for a month. I think its worth a try and the price of admission. I feel like I'm sounding like an infomercial.. I have no affiliation with JRiver..LoL! I'm just very excited about it. If you or Dave want to try it, I am sure you are gonna end up liking it very much.

Take Care!

[FirstReflect]

@Eli

No worries! I always sound like an ad for the things that I enjoy, too! haha :D

I'm glad you're enthusiastic in your JRiver recommendation. You make a compelling case! As I mentioned, in my own system, I'm strongly considering alternatives to WMC, simply because Microsoft really looks like they're on the verge of dropping it entirely :(

Since the review to which you linked mentions that for full ISO Blu-ray backups, JRiver just ends up launching playback software (such as PowerDVD or TotalMedia Theatre), I see no reason why full disc playback (including 3D and HD Audio) would be any different vs. WMC. It's all up to the playback software at that point, so it ought to be identical once playback starts.

For myself, I would have two main questions:

1) can JRiver also act as an HDTV DVR?

That is possibly WMC's greatest feature. Whether using an OTA antenna or a CableCard adapter, WMC's DVR interface and functionality set it apart from most other media interfaces. And once you're using it as a DVR, it's just sort of inertia that makes it feel natural to also use WMC as my movie and music interface, too.

2) What is the metadata editing interface like?

This is just my own ignorance. The mentions of automatically "monitoring" folder locations and then "scrubbing" the files and pulling in metadata from TheMovieDB and the like -- that's basically identical to the way MediaBrowser works. And systems like the PopCorn Hour, DuneHD, or Plex are similar.

But you say that editing the metadata is one of JRiver's strengths. So I'm very interested in that! As cool as the automated metadata retrieval can be, like I mentioned, personally, I much prefer to have more manual control and an easier way to edit the data to my liking than rewriting XML files ;) But if JRiver provides a metadata editing interface for all the data it pulls down automatically, that would be a huge positive in my book!

Looks like my "guinea pig" system will be making itself useful yet again! haha :D I've gotta say, though: I've got Windows 8 on that "guinea pig" system right now, and what a pain that is. It's really to the point where I'm just petrified to change anything on my actual HTPCs in my theatre and other rooms. It's like, right now, my HTPCs are all functional and handling all my media ok. Switching ALL of it over to a new interface and metadata program is scary! haha. But for Dave, now would be the time to strongly consider it. When it's only dozens of movies, and not hundreds that you've already edited and managed so that they show up exactly how you want them, it's much easier to stomach the idea of a change ;) But I'm thinking I will probably be forced to change at some point, anyway.

It's like I said to Dave: I gave him a gift, and he was really happy with it, but I probably ended up adding even more work to his already cram-packed schedule! haha. Oh well. At least this "work" is more for fun, and honestly, it's a VERY first world problem! "Oh no. I have to put a physical disc into my player, and my only alternative is a magical box that can let me do it at the press of a button instead, but there are OPTIONS! The horror!!!"

haha

Yup, it's a tough life :p

[FirstReflect]

@Eli

Ooh, I have another JRiver question! :p

Do you happen to know how JRiver handles 1080p24 playback or automatic refresh rate changing?

One of my main reasons for using MyMovies is that it handles automatic refresh rate changing very well (once you "unlock" that feature by accumulating or buying enough points, anyway).

Obviously, with JRiver, one could simply use the refresh rate changing that is built into the playback software; PowerDVD and TMT both have their own automatic refresh rate changing and 1080p24 support. But, in my experience, the playback software solutions do not work as well as MyMovies' solution. That's mainly because the playback software doesn't make the change until the content actually starts playing. For poorly authored discs (like that darn Chris Botti in Boston Blu-ray), that results in errors sometimes, such as the disc menu freezing or hanging when the playback software tries to switch to 24p. And the player software's automatic switching doesn't work for 3D titles. So if you want 24p during 3D playback, you either have to force a 24Hz refresh rate manually in your driver settings, or you have to use something that changes the refresh rate BEFORE playback begins! So, for me, MyMovies is a great solution on that front. Obviously, that's a very niche concern :p But I'm curious if JRiver offers a similar solution :)

[Harro]

I guess my take on the whole HTPC thing is that everyone has his or hers own idea in what it should be and what it should do.

I do not have a dedicated home theater and use my living room as such. I used to use my desktop for my HTPC because it had the power and also had all my media on it. But it was loud. Hated to be sitting watching a good flick when a silence occurs in the movie and I keep hearing the hum of my fans blaring in the back ground. So I am now at the point where, if it will do what I want for a reasonable price, look pleasing to the eye, cost less to run, is quiet and if at all possible blend in with the rest of my equipment without having to add more racks or shelving, then I will build or buy it.

I have roughly 6 computers that could be used as a HTPC. The last HTPC is my NUC. It measure 4"x4"x1.5" high. It is extremely small, but has the power to play all my 1080's flawless. It has 2 hdmi ports along with an Ethernet port and 3 usb ports. I am running the Celeron variety of NUC but have been told by others who have the i3 variety that it will play 3d no problem. It really is an impressive little box.

For the software side.

I, myself use XBMC not because it is the best (IMO it is) or the cheapest (which it is free) but because it fit my needs. If I had a dedicated theater I might look for something else but highly doubt it.

What I wanted was a media center that would organize, display and add a wow factor on screen while being customizable to fit my needs. XBMC filled those needs. XBMC is not the easiest to configure but once you do it will be a most pleasing experience.

I will add one last thing about what makes my HTPC the show stopper for friends that stop in to watch movies. It is an add on for XBMC called "Cinema Experience". This add on brings the true feeling of watching a movie into your home, from dimming lights, theater introductions, intermissions, movie trivia, snack or refreshment ads, movie trailers, rating for the movie and audio videos for the movie codecs (DTS, Dolby,THX,etc..) it makes a full experience for all watching. I have a outdoor screen I set up and invite friends or family over and then on the invite say movie starts at 9 pm, I then start my Cinema experience up at 8:30. 30 minutes before the movie will actually play, this way people can have time to load up on snacks, beverages, and food, along with chit-chat. It makes for great evening.

I better stop this before I run the limit on my characters in the forum for a post. Any way if any one is interested more on my setups send me a PM.
Thanks

[eliwankenobi]

@Eli

No worries! I always sound like an ad for the things that I enjoy, too! haha :D

I'm glad you're enthusiastic in your JRiver recommendation. You make a compelling case! As I mentioned, in my own system, I'm strongly considering alternatives to WMC, simply because Microsoft really looks like they're on the verge of dropping it entirely :(

Since the review to which you linked mentions that for full ISO Blu-ray backups, JRiver just ends up launching playback software (such as PowerDVD or TotalMedia Theatre), I see no reason why full disc playback (including 3D and HD Audio) would be any different vs. WMC. It's all up to the playback software at that point, so it ought to be identical once playback starts.

For myself, I would have two main questions:

1) can JRiver also act as an HDTV DVR?

That is possibly WMC's greatest feature. Whether using an OTA antenna or a CableCard adapter, WMC's DVR interface and functionality set it apart from most other media interfaces. And once you're using it as a DVR, it's just sort of inertia that makes it feel natural to also use WMC as my movie and music interface, too.

2) What is the metadata editing interface like?

This is just my own ignorance. The mentions of automatically "monitoring" folder locations and then "scrubbing" the files and pulling in metadata from TheMovieDB and the like -- that's basically identical to the way MediaBrowser works. And systems like the PopCorn Hour, DuneHD, or Plex are similar.

But you say that editing the metadata is one of JRiver's strengths. So I'm very interested in that! As cool as the automated metadata retrieval can be, like I mentioned, personally, I much prefer to have more manual control and an easier way to edit the data to my liking than rewriting XML files ;) But if JRiver provides a metadata editing interface for all the data it pulls down automatically, that would be a huge positive in my book!

Looks like my "guinea pig" system will be making itself useful yet again! haha :D I've gotta say, though: I've got Windows 8 on that "guinea pig" system right now, and what a pain that is. It's really to the point where I'm just petrified to change anything on my actual HTPCs in my theatre and other rooms. It's like, right now, my HTPCs are all functional and handling all my media ok. Switching ALL of it over to a new interface and metadata program is scary! haha. But for Dave, now would be the time to strongly consider it. When it's only dozens of movies, and not hundreds that you've already edited and managed so that they show up exactly how you want them, it's much easier to stomach the idea of a change ;) But I'm thinking I will probably be forced to change at some point, anyway.

It's like I said to Dave: I gave him a gift, and he was really happy with it, but I probably ended up adding even more work to his already cram-packed schedule! haha. Oh well. At least this "work" is more for fun, and honestly, it's a VERY first world problem! "Oh no. I have to put a physical disc into my player, and my only alternative is a magical box that can let me do it at the press of a button instead, but there are OPTIONS! The horror!!!"

haha

Yup, it's a tough life :p


Your guinea pig PC sounds like a good idea! If you have 100s of movies files in there, you don't want to mess that up!

OK so first of all, JRiver is its own blu-ray player and supports ISOs natively. It has its own clone drive for this, though you can use another one (like Slysoft's own VCD) so you choose to do so as well You just have to point the software to the .exe file.

Now there are caveats that I forgot to mention.

1) You need AnyDVD HD for it to decrypt the disc so JR can access the content and play it (which you already have, so I guess is no worries there I guess).

2) This might be a deal breaker - When you play the content, it will go straight to the movie as it will look for the main title from the ISO. You can access subtitles and languages from its own navigation menu. You can also access the trailers and special features or extras on the disc as well, but those will be displayed as titles from within the disc, sort of like the tracks on a CD, and you choose what you want to see.

3) This might be another deal breaker - It does not support 3D officially, but there is a workaround. It seems that if you rip the 3D movie to MKV, it will play it just fine. You would have to experiment with the ISO file to see if it happens. But you need to have a HDMI 1.4a compliant HDMI connection from the HTPC. Though you might experiment with this on your guinea pig. Reference is here: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72174.0

4) This might be another potential deal breaker - It won't natively decode DTS-HD-MA. It needs a .dll file to be loaded onto it. You may have it already on your other blu-ray playback software. More info here on their wiki page: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Blu-ray Go to HD Audio

Now on to your main questions....

1) can JRiver also act as an HDTV DVR?

Yes it can. I don't use it as such. I don't even watch TV on it. Here is a link to the official website regarding this matter: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80602.0

2) What is the metadata editing interface like?

Easy... select title you want to edit. Select Tag from the "Action Window" on the left of the software or go to Edit/Tag or press Alt+Enter. You will see all tag info it downloaded from TMDB, IMDB, etc on the left...You can edit all of the fields in there. You just select the field and type away. You may also choose for JRvier not to autodownload the metadata if you want. You can also right click select any additional fields you would like to add. To use a different poster/artwork for your movie title, just copy the image file.


You know, I haven't used Win8 a lot to feel familiar with it, but I hear that after installing "Classic Shell" app, which gives you back the start button, Win8 is not so bad. In case you didn't know about it.

I hope this helps and ends up helping Dave along the way too.

[eliwankenobi]

@Eli

Ooh, I have another JRiver question! :p

Do you happen to know how JRiver handles 1080p24 playback or automatic refresh rate changing?

One of my main reasons for using MyMovies is that it handles automatic refresh rate changing very well (once you "unlock" that feature by accumulating or buying enough points, anyway).

Obviously, with JRiver, one could simply use the refresh rate changing that is built into the playback software; PowerDVD and TMT both have their own automatic refresh rate changing and 1080p24 support. But, in my experience, the playback software solutions do not work as well as MyMovies' solution. That's mainly because the playback software doesn't make the change until the content actually starts playing. For poorly authored discs (like that darn Chris Botti in Boston Blu-ray), that results in errors sometimes, such as the disc menu freezing or hanging when the playback software tries to switch to 24p. And the player software's automatic switching doesn't work for 3D titles. So if you want 24p during 3D playback, you either have to force a 24Hz refresh rate manually in your driver settings, or you have to use something that changes the refresh rate BEFORE playback begins! So, for me, MyMovies is a great solution on that front. Obviously, that's a very niche concern :p But I'm curious if JRiver offers a similar solution :)

Hello Again,

JRiver can output at the native refresh rate of the connected display. For automatic FPS switching, you have to activate it on the video options of the software. I've never had a problem when switching between 30fps and 24fps material. They play natively no problem. I can't confirm on 3D titles as I don't have a 3D display and my laptop is not hdmi 1.4 compliant either. I really don't know the inner workings of how it works, but here is a brief official description of the video options and playback here:

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Video_Playback_Customization

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Video_Playback_Options

[FirstReflect]

My my! I will definitely have to check out JRiver :) If nothing else, it's good to know there's a comprehensive alternative if WMC eventually gets discontinued completely.

It makes sense. There's no reason why someone shouldn't be able to replicate all the functionality of WMC. And building in metadata management makes perfect sense.

it seems as though, if you try hard enough, spend enough time, and look for enough plug-ins and add-ons, you can get pretty similar functionality out of WMC, JRiver, XBMC, or even Plex. But trying to become an expert on ALL of them, man, that seems rather overwhelming! haha

The one thing that concerns me more and more these days, though, is longevity. So long as JRiver sticks around and keeps updating and improving, I could definitely see it becoming the most user-friendly solution. At the same time, being open source and user-driven means that XBMC will almost certainly stick around.

Anywho, I hope no one will think I was too far off base with what I gave Dave. Still better than a kick in the teeth, yeah? haha :D This discussion has definitely made me want to deep dive into these alternatives, though. Back when I was first setting up my own HTPCs, WMC with AnyDVD HD, MyMovies, and separate Blu-ray player software (either PowerDVD or TMT) was what worked well, and what I found the easiest to understand. Since that's what I was familiar with, that's what I gave Dave. So I hope that makes sense.

In my own case, HD DVD support was a big consideration, too. Arcsoft TMT was and still is the only current software of which I'm aware that can still play back HD DVD ISOs. Thankfully, AnyDVD HD has full HD DVD support. And MakeMKV works with HD DVD discs, too. And I really liked the way that MyMovies clearly separates and visually represents all the various disc formats, so that was another plus in my book for that metadata software :)

[eliwankenobi]

My my! I will definitely have to check out JRiver :) If nothing else, it's good to know there's a comprehensive alternative if WMC eventually gets discontinued completely.

It makes sense. There's no reason why someone shouldn't be able to replicate all the functionality of WMC. And building in metadata management makes perfect sense.

it seems as though, if you try hard enough, spend enough time, and look for enough plug-ins and add-ons, you can get pretty similar functionality out of WMC, JRiver, XBMC, or even Plex. But trying to become an expert on ALL of them, man, that seems rather overwhelming! haha

The one thing that concerns me more and more these days, though, is longevity. So long as JRiver sticks around and keeps updating and improving, I could definitely see it becoming the most user-friendly solution. At the same time, being open source and user-driven means that XBMC will almost certainly stick around.

Anywho, I hope no one will think I was too far off base with what I gave Dave. Still better than a kick in the teeth, yeah? haha :D This discussion has definitely made me want to deep dive into these alternatives, though. Back when I was first setting up my own HTPCs, WMC with AnyDVD HD, MyMovies, and separate Blu-ray player software (either PowerDVD or TMT) was what worked well, and what I found the easiest to understand. Since that's what I was familiar with, that's what I gave Dave. So I hope that makes sense.

In my own case, HD DVD support was a big consideration, too. Arcsoft TMT was and still is the only current software of which I'm aware that can still play back HD DVD ISOs. Thankfully, AnyDVD HD has full HD DVD support. And MakeMKV works with HD DVD discs, too. And I really liked the way that MyMovies clearly separates and visually represents all the various disc formats, so that was another plus in my book for that metadata software :)

Yes! Give it a try!.. Wait until you get to the DLNA part of it, Or its room correction settings where you can set distance, level, bass management, etc for each individual speaker to better integrate your speakers to your room, also parametric eq, Its crazy. Another thing that is not common on most other software is its convolution engine that has options to load room correction filters in case you use something like Dirac Live RCS or Acourate and want to bypass your AVR processing, though that is more useful for the music guys with a lot of 24bit/96khz with the fancy stereo preamps, etc.

I would not worry about longevity. They've been doing yearly releases and now they are up to v.19. Which brings me to mention another thing, the software is $50, and that includes all future updates within that version. Any update for a future version starts at $18 and then $25. And that is yearly. I feel its fair, given the higher level of functionality its been getting with any new version and even within the same version updates.

Wow, you still have HD-DVDs!! I almost forgot those existed. Lol! well, I don't know about support for that, but the audio and video codec are also supported in the blu-ray format, the only thing different would be the folder structure from the ISO itself, but like you mention, you could do MKV files of those and play those no problem...

[eliwankenobi]

I guess my take on the whole HTPC thing is that everyone has his or hers own idea in what it should be and what it should do.

I do not have a dedicated home theater and use my living room as such. I used to use my desktop for my HTPC because it had the power and also had all my media on it. But it was loud. Hated to be sitting watching a good flick when a silence occurs in the movie and I keep hearing the hum of my fans blaring in the back ground. So I am now at the point where, if it will do what I want for a reasonable price, look pleasing to the eye, cost less to run, is quiet and if at all possible blend in with the rest of my equipment without having to add more racks or shelving, then I will build or buy it.

I have roughly 6 computers that could be used as a HTPC. The last HTPC is my NUC. It measure 4"x4"x1.5" high. It is extremely small, but has the power to play all my 1080's flawless. It has 2 hdmi ports along with an Ethernet port and 3 usb ports. I am running the Celeron variety of NUC but have been told by others who have the i3 variety that it will play 3d no problem. It really is an impressive little box.

For the software side.

I, myself use XBMC not because it is the best (IMO it is) or the cheapest (which it is free) but because it fit my needs. If I had a dedicated theater I might look for something else but highly doubt it.

What I wanted was a media center that would organize, display and add a wow factor on screen while being customizable to fit my needs. XBMC filled those needs. XBMC is not the easiest to configure but once you do it will be a most pleasing experience.

I will add one last thing about what makes my HTPC the show stopper for friends that stop in to watch movies. It is an add on for XBMC called "Cinema Experience". This add on brings the true feeling of watching a movie into your home, from dimming lights, theater introductions, intermissions, movie trivia, snack or refreshment ads, movie trailers, rating for the movie and audio videos for the movie codecs (DTS, Dolby,THX,etc..) it makes a full experience for all watching. I have a outdoor screen I set up and invite friends or family over and then on the invite say movie starts at 9 pm, I then start my Cinema experience up at 8:30. 30 minutes before the movie will actually play, this way people can have time to load up on snacks, beverages, and food, along with chit-chat. It makes for great evening.

I better stop this before I run the limit on my characters in the forum for a post. Any way if any one is interested more on my setups send me a PM.
Thanks

That software is very cool! I got the see how it works when I visited merrymaid520's home and he did a demo for me, and for movie playback that is a great solution!! and its FREE too. Options and more options....it all goes back to pick your poison!

[FirstReflect]

Nice!

Whelp, we can easily go back and forth when it comes to metadata programs and front end choices, but I think we can all agree: AnyDVD HD and MakeMKV are critical pieces of software for pretty much any setup. I'm not sure what I'd do without those two.

One other thing I haven't mentioned yet -- at least for a WMC-based setup like the one I provided to Dave -- is the Shark007 codec pack. I know a lot of people will do practically anything to get away from Windows Media Player. But with the Shark007 codec pack loaded onto your system, WMP really does become an extremely powerful and versatile playback program. And, of course, it's seamlessly integrated into WMC :)

So, that's on Dave's system, too, in case anyone was wondering ;)

[eliwankenobi]

Nice!

Whelp, we can easily go back and forth when it comes to metadata programs and front end choices, but I think we can all agree: AnyDVD HD and MakeMKV are critical pieces of software for pretty much any setup. I'm not sure what I'd do without those two.

One other thing I haven't mentioned yet -- at least for a WMC-based setup like the one I provided to Dave -- is the Shark007 codec pack. I know a lot of people will do practically anything to get away from Windows Media Player. But with the Shark007 codec pack loaded onto your system, WMP really does become an extremely powerful and versatile playback program. And, of course, it's seamlessly integrated into WMC :)

So, that's on Dave's system, too, in case anyone was wondering ;)

Funny! Shark007! That sounds similar to JRiver's Red October (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Red_October) Where do they come up with these crazy names?

[Harro]

Like you say each person picks their own poison.

I guess you could call me a media addict. My collection consist of 2200 movie and 150 TV shows. I have been collecting for over 30 years. Everything now resides on my NAS but I can access anything from anywhere. Which is kinda cool when I venture to a friends house, bring my tablet and plug into their TV with HDMI watch a movie or I can start watching something in my living room, go to my bedroom and pick it up from where I left off in my living room.

Every platform has it's good points and bad points, just need to try things until you find which is best. I myself have never really given WMC and fair chance, only for the fact that I never liked all the resources it wanted to hog up or start up on my computers. But if it works and you are happy with it, Then enjoy it. Nothing brings more joy then sitting on the couch and scrolling through your collection to play something.