Sierra 1 vs. CMT-340 For Older Music Lovers...

[Mojo]

I am replacing 30+ year ESS HD1000 speakers; the woofers are literally disintegrating. (I still have the original receipt from Pacific Stereo from 12/3/1982; I paid $299.90 but if I remember correctly I got a refund check for $100 when the speakers went on sale within a month of my purchase. I definitely got my money out of those speakers!)

Several years ago I did a lot of online research about replacement speakers and came up with the usual suspects in the sub-$1000 price-range. I auditioned the CMT-340SE speakers. When I did the A/B thing with the two sets of speakers I found them to be virtually identical sound-wise. The Ascends were a touch "brighter" than the ESS. Since I have always enjoyed the ESS I see no reason to look any further. And the Ascend customer service was so fabulous I resolved to do business with the company in the future.

I am not an audiophile and next week I turn 59, so my hearing has lost a bit over the years... I did an online hearing test a few years ago and a high tone that is commonly missing in elders' hearing was totally kaput. (I blame it on an over-amped CSNY concert in Portland around six years ago; even the acoustic set was way too loud. It was the loudest concert I've ever been to and I've attended a lot of rock concerts over the years...)

I have around 750 CDs and a couple of hundred LPs. But I do most of my listening via iTunes streaming AAC files encoded at 320kbps/44.100 and a fair amount of streamed music via MOG at 320kbps.

When I finally tossed the Outlaw 1050 into the trash after the right channel went out for the third time, I went with a Harmon Kardon HK3390 because I couldn't settle on a higher-cost 2-channel receiver with a built-in phono preamp. The HK was downright cheap at Amazon and while I don't like the sound quite as much as the 1050 and the ergonomics are terrible, it suffices for the time being. (I have to boost the bass to get it closer to the 1050's "warmth.")

The HK has 80 watts/channel 20Hz-20kHz at 8 ohms and 100 watts at 4 ohms. I'll probably be upgrading in the future but I'll be sticking with two-channels; I got the Outlaw AV receiver thinking that I would get into multi-channel music but that went nowhere since the music selection was so limited. We don't give a hoot about movie soundtracks; except for PBS most of our video comes via Netflix streaming. (DVDs are rare around here.) We tend to listen at low to moderate volume levels so I want a speaker that doesn't sound good only at higher volume levels.

My dilemma: I already know that the CMT-340s meet my expectations. But I do like the bamboo Sierra 1 cabinets and from what I have read they sound like great speakers. My wife tells me to go with what I want since after our experience with the ESS speakers, whichever Ascend speakers I choose will probably outlive us. :eek: She considers them a lifetime investment.

So are the Sierras overkill for us?

[natetg57]

I don't think the sierra's are overkill. I love mine. They sound good with everything. They sound detailed and realistic. I've never heard the CMT340's but the Sierras are supposed to be more musical. The Sierra-1's are detailed enough that I strongly prefer the sound of FLAC over MP3. Hard drives are cheap enough that space shouldn't be an issue for lossless music files.

[Mojo]

Hard drives are cheap enough that space shouldn't be an issue for lossless music files.

I've toyed with the idea of going to lossless files but the likelihood of my re-ripping 700+ CDs is remote. (I wore out the optical drive in my 2006 iMac...) I don't even have an optical drive for my Mac Mini, although our 2011 MacBook Pro does have one... I also think that our musical future is going to be MOG-centered; I may never buy another CD. $5.99/month and we have access to a wide variety of genres and new releases seem to immediately appear on MOG. Natalie Maines's "Mother" just came out and I was surprised to find it on MOG the same week it was released.

When I first began ripping CDs the research I did led me to decide that 192kbps was the point where most humans wouldn't notice a huge difference in sound quality. When drives became larger and less expensive I upped it to 256kbps and later to 320, but the majority of our music is 192. But even my ears can immediately tell the difference between a 192kbps AAC file and a well-mastered CD. Unfortunately, I don't have many CDs that fall into that category...

[FirstReflect]

I would never consider any of Ascend's speakers to be "overkill". It's more just a matter of how much money you are able to spend, the size of the room you are trying to fill, the distance from your seat to the speakers that you are trying to cover, the acoustics of your room with which you must contend, whether or not you are using subwoofers to handle the deep bass, what content you listen to, and what electronics will be driving your speakers.

Many variables :) But, for example, you mentioned wanting to be able to play your music at lower volume levels while still getting all of the detail and clarity. That is something that the Sierra Towers with the RAAL ribbon tweeter upgrade absolutely excel at better than almost any other speakers out there! But those are also the most expensive pair of speakers in Ascend's standard lineup ;) Worth paying almost $3000 for (depending on finish and shipping)? I'd say, yes! But that's quite a lot of money, especially if you were looking to pay more in the $500-$1000 range. And it's also diminishing returns. The Sierra Towers with RAAL are phenomenal, but it's not as though the standard NrT Towers sound terrible by comparison or something. Far from it! You're paying an extra $700 for the RAAL tweeters to inch yourself closer to perfection, that's all :)

Assuming you want to keep the price tag closer to the range of the CMT-340SE and standard Sierra-1, there's definitely no "overkill" choice. But one might better meet your needs than the other.

If you are not using a subwoofer, this might be surprising, but the Sierra-1 do a better job, IMO, of playing full range than the CMT-340SE. Even though the CMT-340SE are physically larger, they really are BIG bookshelf speakers, and shine best when used along with a subwoofer. That said, if you have a very large room and a far seating distance, the CMT-340SE can really belt out the loudness better than the Sierra-1. Not by a huge margin. But if maximum output is a priority, then the CMT-340SE are champs :)

It sounds like quieter output is more of a priority for you, though. And it seems, from your description, that you might be using this pair of speakers all on their own - no subwoofer. If that's the case, I'd recommend the Sierra-1 more highly. And I'd even say that the NrT tweeter upgrade would be worthwhile for those lower volume listening sessions. But if price is a bigger concern, the standard Sierra-1 is still a great speaker for music.

[Mojo]

Thanks for the feedback. I ordered natural finish Sierra 1 "B stock" speakers. They are arriving Friday.

[FirstReflect]

Congrats!

I think you will be very happy with the Sierra-1. I'm really glad we could be of some help to you.

Enjoy your new speakers!

[Blutarsky]

:cool:In a small to Medium room, the Sierra-1's will be beyond your wildest dreams.

Rock On!

[Mojo]

If these are "B Stock" the "A Stock" speakers must glow in the dark... I haven't looked at them with a magnifying glass but I didn't notice any defect(s). It may be behind the front speaker cover but since I don't plan on removing it it's a moot point...

My wife and I spent the weekend listening to a variety of music to see what the amazingly small boxes could do... Most of the music was on CDs that I consider to be well-mastered vs. the CDs we own that were released without any perceivable digital tweaking to take advantage of the new format. Here is (most) of what we played:

American Beauty/Workingman's Dead The Grateful Dead from the remastered The Golden Road boxed set. I hear instruments on some of these CDs that I never even noticed on the LPs and earlier CDs...

Exodus Deluxe Edition Bob Marley and The Wailers.

Rhythms of Peace Nawang Khechog. Tibetan flute.

Love's Illusion Anonymous Four.

Ravi Shankar- Carnegie Hall 2000

Live Anthology Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers

We also listened to some music via MOG and iTunes. While the 320kbps MOG music sounded very good (except for rare streaming glitches...) the 192kbps iTunes album (Graceland was definitely missing something... I think that I will be listening to a lot more CDs and I may just have to re-rip some iTunes files.

To make a long story short, the Sierra 1s are fantastic. We played 'em loud and soft and in-between and they surpassed our expectations. My wife was blown away; she didn't want to let go of our old speakers but after a few hours she wasn't missing them one bit. An added bonus: The Sierra 1 speakers look really good in our living room. I'm glad that we passed on the black 340s and as far as the faux walnut ESS cabinets go, it's simply no contest. We are not going to miss those large dark-brown boxes that dominated the living room...

I do have a question that hopefully someone can help with: My wife asked if it is possible to replace the damaged woofers in the ESS speakers so we can put them in our spare room? It seems like it would be a simple thing to do but I don't know where to find replacement speakers. I'm going to pull one of the ESS woofers so I can see what brand of speaker was used.

I'd appreciate any advice about the feasibility of doing this and reputable speakers suppliers.

I think that covers it. Two more very happy Ascend Sierra 1 speakers owners to add to the list!

[curtis]

If these are "B Stock" the "A Stock" speakers must glow in the dark...
That's funny! I've been around Dave when he was looking at speaker enclosures/cabinets. His perfectionism evident in all aspects of his products.

Glad you are enjoying the Sierra-1's! I still love mine too!

What part of the woofer is damaged on the ESS's?

[FirstReflect]

Congrats!

It's so great to read that you're enjoying your new Sierra-1 speakers, and finding them to have met and exceeded your expectations! Certainly makes it easier to feel good about the purchase and the (very slightly) higher price. Definitely worth the money, yes? :D

parts-express.com would be a good starting point for looking for replacement woofers for your old ESS speakers. They have a pretty healthy and helpful forum over there, so I would definitely hit them up for advice about specific woofers that might fit and work well in your existing ESS speakers.

And getting back to your Sierra-1: another great thing about them is that they are upgradeable, should you ever decide you want to eek out even a tiny bit more detail and tighter transient response. It's diminishing returns, for sure. It's not as though the improvement in going from the stock Sierra-1 to the upgraded NrT Sierra-1, or the soon-to-be-released Sierra-2 are as huge as the improvement in going from, say, some HTiB speaker to the stock Sierra-1! But it's nice to know that if you ever decide you want to "tweak" your sound and improve it even further, you can! And you can do so at a greatly reduced cost vs. buying entirely new speakers! So that's very cool, IMO :)

Long before you ever consider upgrading to the NrT or the Sierra-2, though, I would highly recommend adding a subwoofer (or two ;) ) to your speaker system. Adding a subwoofer will make a much larger difference than any other upgrade. I think you'll agree, the Sierra-1 produce a surprising amount of bass for such relatively small speakers! Enough that they are really quite satisfying for music, even all on their own. But it can be a rather transformative experience if you hear them mated with a great subwoofer. The Rythmik brand subwoofers offered by Ascend are an ideal match. The exact size and model really have more to do with your room size than anything else. But if movies are a low priority, I do believe you'd be happiest with one of the sealed Rythmik models.

Happy listening, and enjoy!

[Mojo]

What part of the woofer is damaged on the ESS's?

The edge of the woofers in both speakers has disintegrated; in one speaker it is totally gone. It's amazing that we didn't notice a significant change in the sound earlier. But a month or so ago I began hearing a "puffing" sound from the left speaker. The first thing I did was remove the front cover and I saw what was causing the problem. The right speaker wasn't as far along in the process but pieces of the woofer fell out of the cabinet when I removed its cover. :eek:

804

Do you think that I can sell the old woofers on CraigsList? ;)

The other speaker components are small "horns" made of plastic so I assume that they are OK.

Thanks for the info about speaker parts and the forum. After I remove the woofer from one of the speakers I'll see what forum members have to say about the feasibility of replacing the woofers. If it doesn't cost very much they would make nice speakers streaming music from my Mac. I'll have a spare Airport Express when an upgrade arrives this week; all I would need is a basic amp to drive the speakers.

[Mag_Neato]

The edge of the woofers in both speakers has disintegrated; in one speaker it is totally gone. It's amazing that we didn't notice a significant change in the sound earlier. But a month or so ago I began hearing a "puffing" sound from the left speaker. The first thing I did was remove the front cover and I saw what was causing the problem. The right speaker wasn't as far along in the process but pieces of the woofer fell out of the cabinet when I removed its cover. :eek:

804

Do you think that I can sell the old woofers on CraigsList? ;)

The other speaker components are small "horns" made of plastic so I assume that they are OK.

Thanks for the info about speaker parts and the forum. After I remove the woofer from one of the speakers I'll see what forum members have to say about the feasibility of replacing the woofers. If it doesn't cost very much they would make nice speakers streaming music from my Mac. I'll have a spare Airport Express when an upgrade arrives this week; all I would need is a basic amp to drive the speakers.

Looks like the surround is rotted but the woofer cone is still intact. If so, you could simply buy a re-foam kit and replace the woofer surround. Google speaker re-foaming kits.

[curtis]

Here you go!

http://speakerrepair.com/

They even have re-foaming kits for various ESS drivers:

http://www.speakerrepair.com/page/category/ess-re-edge-kits.html

[davef]

My wife and I spent the weekend listening to a variety of music to see what the amazingly small boxes could do... Most of the music was on CDs that I consider to be well-mastered vs. the CDs we own that were released without any perceivable digital tweaking to take advantage of the new format. Here is (most) of what we played:

American Beauty/Workingman's Dead The Grateful Dead from the remastered The Golden Road boxed set. I hear instruments on some of these CDs that I never even noticed on the LPs and earlier CDs...

Exodus Deluxe Edition Bob Marley and The Wailers.

Rhythms of Peace Nawang Khechog. Tibetan flute.

Love's Illusion Anonymous Four.

Ravi Shankar- Carnegie Hall 2000

Live Anthology Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers

We also listened to some music via MOG and iTunes. While the 320kbps MOG music sounded very good (except for rare streaming glitches...) the 192kbps iTunes album (Graceland was definitely missing something... I think that I will be listening to a lot more CDs and I may just have to re-rip some iTunes files.

To make a long story short, the Sierra 1s are fantastic. We played 'em loud and soft and in-between and they surpassed our expectations. My wife was blown away; she didn't want to let go of our old speakers but after a few hours she wasn't missing them one bit. An added bonus: The Sierra 1 speakers look really good in our living room. I'm glad that we passed on the black 340s and as far as the faux walnut ESS cabinets go, it's simply no contest. We are not going to miss those large dark-brown boxes that dominated the living room...

....I think that covers it. Two more very happy Ascend Sierra 1 speakers owners to add to the list!

Excellent, I am very happy to learn that you are enjoying them and thanks for sharing the experience!

[bry72]

Hi Mojo,

First, I want to say thanks for mentioning MOG. Never heard of the website before and after doing the trial period, I joined.

I have a question about how you are hooking up your computer to your AVR for streaming your music. You mentioned that you are using a Mac Mini that does not have an optical out. Are you just using RCA cables from the headphone jack to your AVR?

The reason I ask is that I am wondering if there is a big difference in sound quality from RCA cables and optical. My computer does not have an optical either and I am thinking about getting an external USB sound card that will allow optical to my AVR.

[merrymaid520]

I recently joined MOG (still in free trial period) and so far I like it. I was leaning towards it mainly for the quality of the streaming at 320kbs versus Pandora which is less than half that.

For those who are familiar with it, anyway of mixing the stations/artists up rather than it just playing that particular station or genre? Pandora was able to offer a "quickmix" which shuffled all of your favorite stuff at once. So far I cannot find if MOG offers this or not?

Thanks.

[arkiedan]

No reason at all to replace those woofers or trash the entire speakers.

All you have is deteriorated foam surrounds. Very easy to replace at around $25 for two and the woofers will be like new. I've done ten sets of speakers and all were fine. Replace the surrounds! You'll experience a "job well done" moment and have some fine speakers again. :cool:

As for the Sierra 1s, I've had my standard versions for two years and love them! Maybe the Sierra 2 will push me into an upgrade but I have no, repeat no!, complaints about my Ascend Sierra 1s! Love 'em! :)

Good luck and good listening,

old arkiedan

[davef]

I recently joined MOG (still in free trial period) and so far I like it. I was leaning towards it mainly for the quality of the streaming at 320kbs versus Pandora which is less than half that.

For those who are familiar with it, anyway of mixing the stations/artists up rather than it just playing that particular station or genre? Pandora was able to offer a "quickmix" which shuffled all of your favorite stuff at once. So far I cannot find if MOG offers this or not?

Thanks.

I too am looking for a way to quickly make a random mix. I have also been experience some dropouts that I don't get with Pandora, but the sound quality with MOG is definitely superior.

[merrymaid520]

I too am looking for a way to quickly make a random mix. I have also been experience some dropouts that I don't get with Pandora, but the sound quality with MOG is definitely superior.

Hey Dave,
I continued my search using MOG and even spotify which also offers higher quality streaming and still no luck with a "quick mix" type option. Pandoras nice being it shuffles all your favorite artists etc which is great. From what I can tell most other services do not offer this:(

If you find one, please do share! Hope all is well!

[curtis]

Because of you guys, I am giving MOG a try.

Using it primarily through my Sonos.

[rsmt2000]

Are you guys using a pc/mac to stream MOG and have it play thorugh an AV receiver to the speakers? My receiver has pandora and spotify ( works only with paid service) but no MOG.

I am planning to buy a WD live or roku to stream MOG

[Kisakuku]

Because of you guys, I am giving MOG a try.

Using it primarily through my Sonos.

Google Play Music All Access seems like an interesting new alternative. $8/mo for 320kbps.

[curtis]

Are you guys using a pc/mac to stream MOG and have it play thorugh an AV receiver to the speakers? My receiver has pandora and spotify ( works only with paid service) but no MOG.

I am planning to buy a WD live or roku to stream MOG
I'm streaming it through Sonos that is digitally connected to my AVR.


Google Play Music All Access seems like an interesting new alternative. $8/mo for 320kbps.
Yes...that looks to be another great option, the problem is it is not available on Sonos yet.

[curtis]

Here's where MOG is better than Spotify...

With a Spotify paid subscription, my kids and I found that you can only use one portable device at a time. So, if one kid is listening to Spotify on their phone, and the other kid or I fired it up on another portable device, the music for the first kid stops.

MOG does not do that.

[davef]

Here's where MOG is better than Spotify...

With a Spotify paid subscription, my kids and I found that you can only use one portable device at a time. So, if one kid is listening to Spotify on their phone, and the other kid or I fired it up on another portable device, the music for the first kid stops.

MOG does not do that.

Oooooh-- so if I join, am I correct in assuming that multiple devices can use the same MOG account?

[curtis]

Oooooh-- so if I join, am I correct in assuming that multiple devices can use the same MOG account?
I am on a the 14 day trial.

We had it running, with different songs, on two iPhones, Sonos, and a computer, all at the same time, with the same login.

[curtis]

Wait...apparently more testing is needed. My daughter said a message came up on her computer about another device was in use.

We just tried two iPhones and it worked fine.

[curtis]

So, it must be a delayed reaction, but the kids told me today that they both can not be online with MOG at the same time.

[davef]

So, it must be a delayed reaction, but the kids told me today that they both can not be online with MOG at the same time.

That's a deal breaker for me...

[Blutarsky]

I am Using MOG via my ROKU. We can use all our other devices without problems.

B.

[Mag_Neato]

I am Using MOG via my ROKU. We can use all our other devices without problems.

B.

Simultaneously? I have MOG on my ROKU 2 as well, though I am doing the free trial and have not actually sync'd it up yet. Have to go to the website and enter the code, etc. just have not been able to sit down and do it.

[Blutarsky]

It works fine, the lists are a little cumbersome to manage on the MOG site.

For $4.99 a month!!! Cowabunga!

We can use smart phones, PC, and all our time gobbling toys at the same time.

B.

[curtis]

It works fine, the lists are a little cumbersome to manage on the MOG site.

For $4.99 a month!!! Cowabunga!

We can use smart phones, PC, and all our time gobbling toys at the same time.

B! Are you sure? You have never seen the "MOG is being used on another device" message? It can take a few minutes or so for the message to show up.

And isn't the $4.99 deal to use only on PC's and laptops?

[Blutarsky]

I have a $4.99/month MOG account that can be used via any device. Also, I use my ROKU to send content to my A/V set up and MOG is one of my ROKU Channels. I am listening to my ROKU>MOG>Receiver as I write this, and my wife is surfing the Web with her iPad.

You can get a 30 day free MOG trial to verify this.

I turned into a glutton the moment I started this. All the CDs' that I had on my wish list went into my ears in a 5 day orgy.

B.

[curtis]

I have a $4.99/month MOG account that can be used via any device. Also, I use my ROKU to send content to my A/V set up and MOG is one of my ROKU Channels. I am listening to my ROKU>MOG>Receiver as I write this, and my wife is surfing the Web with her iPad.

You can get a 30 day free MOG trial to verify this.

I turned into a glutton the moment I started this. All the CDs' that I had on my wish list went into my ears in a 5 day orgy.

B.
I am doing the 30 day trial, and we can't have two iPhones "online" with MOG at the same time.

Your wife is "surfing" with her iPad, but is she also listening to MOG at the same time?

[Blutarsky]

OK- I am able to listen to MOG via my ROKU and one other device simultaneously.

(Two different songs)

But I can't listen to MOG on our PC and smart phone at the same time.

Go to the MOG site to see more. I wonder if you need multiple subscriptions?

B.

[Blutarsky]

From the Horses Mouth...
https://moghelp.zendesk.com/entries/21396181-Can-I-use-MOG-from-multiple-locations-

ROKU/MOG is a separate Channel that MOG pays ROKU to stream.

Blutarsky

[curtis]

Thanks Bluetarsky!!

I think that is the same case with Sonos.

[JustaSheep]

Any other Spotify users here? Does MOG have any advantage as opposed to Spotify?

[Blutarsky]

Mog is 1/2 the price. My friend just cancelled Spotify for MOG..He felt the functioning was equal.

B.

[davef]

Can someone please try this... with the $9.99/month membership that allows for downloading music to your mobile device (not streaming it), is it possible to download music to two different devices? And if yes, can both devices play these downloaded tracks at the same time? Again, I am not asking about streaming.

Thanks guys!

[JustaSheep]

Thanks for the input, B.

Dave, with Spotify, yes you can download music to multiple devices. I have done this on my laptop and iTouch. I have not tried playing them both at the same time, but I assume you can since you would likely be doing this offline.

I have not used MOG and given there is an extra cost (that makes it equal to Spotify) to download music, I will stay w/ spotify as I use the downloaded music often.

[curtis]

Can someone please try this... with the $9.99/month membership that allows for downloading music to your mobile device (not streaming it), is it possible to download music to two different devices? And if yes, can both devices play these downloaded tracks at the same time? Again, I am not asking about streaming.

Thanks guys!
I am told, by my son, that this works, but we will test it out.

[davef]

I am told, by my son, that this works, but we will test it out.

Curtis, what was the result?

[curtis]

Curtis, what was the result?
We only tested this a little bit, but when offline, two devices can play downloaded music without issue.

[davef]

We only tested this a little bit, but when offline, two devices can play downloaded music without issue.

Great .. thanks Curtis!

[curtis]

BTW....although I don't know the specifics, both my kids seem to gravitate towards Spotify.

[JustaSheep]

Spotify just changed their "home page" when you launch the app to a page dedicated to discovering new music. It's pretty slick.