Sierra-1s set to large? Bad or good?

[JustABrah]

My avr sets the Sierra-1s LR at large, is this ok? I had them set at 80, 60 and 40 before but I think they sound much better at large? It also sets my Sierra-1 center at 200 isn't that a little high? I use to have it at 60, why would it set my Sierra-1 LR as large but the exact same speaker as center it does it at 200, my surrounds are HTM-200 se and it sets them at 100.

Dave would love your feed back on the center and if the Sierra-1 as large will blow the woofer? It says under sub mode L/R + LFE? Not sure that's good?

[Blutarsky]

My YPAO set my old Sierras at large and immediately blew a woofer. This was my first experience with auto set up. I learned to allow my common sense review all the settings, and tweek them before firing things up. Smart of you to check it out.

B.

[davef]

My avr sets the Sierra-1s LR at large, is this ok? I had them set at 80, 60 and 40 before but I think they sound much better at large? It also sets my Sierra-1 center at 200 isn't that a little high? I use to have it at 60, why would it set my Sierra-1 LR as large but the exact same speaker as center it does it at 200, my surrounds are HTM-200 se and it sets them at 100.

Dave would love your feed back on the center and if the Sierra-1 as large will blow the woofer? It says under sub mode L/R + LFE? Not sure that's good?

You need to be real careful with this... Running the Sierra-1's at large and using auto-EQ is a bad combination. Auto-EQ does not know the low frequency capabilities of any loudspeaker, it can not differentiate between a bookshelf speaker like the Sierra-1 or a huge full range tower. Auto-EQ will attempt to flatten out the low frequency response, thus significantly boosting the lows and this can be very problematic for any loudspeaker not designed for full range.

Set the Sierra-1 at 60 or 80Hz, and the same with the center. The reason your AVR is setting the center at 200Hz is due to room / placement issues.

[JustABrah]

I set the LCR Sierra-1 to 60 and the HTM-200se to 80 and I think it sounds better. Such a killer system for an affordable price.

[GirgleMirt]

Are you using a sub? If not, you should run them as large since setting them to 60hz will basically cut the low frequencies and you'll be missing on quite a bit the Sierras could deliver... As for auto-EQ, hmmm... yeah for the bass it could be touchy... Is there any way to see and alter what the auto-EQ settings are in terms of boost and cut? If so then leaving as is below 50 hz and letting above the auto-EQ settings might the better idea.

But if you have a sub, yeah, as Dave said :) Or, if you have no sub but are playing it really loud / huge room, and your amp/speakers are clipping then yeah, 60hz too, but that's pretty loud...

[edgeh2o]

You need to be real careful with this... Running the Sierra-1's at large and using auto-EQ is a bad combination. Auto-EQ does not know the low frequency capabilities of any loudspeaker, it can not differentiate between a bookshelf speaker like the Sierra-1 or a huge full range tower. Auto-EQ will attempt to flatten out the low frequency response, thus significantly boosting the lows and this can be very problematic for any loudspeaker not designed for full range.

Set the Sierra-1 at 60 or 80Hz, and the same with the center. The reason your AVR is setting the center at 200Hz is due to room / placement issues.

So if we want to run the Sierra-1 full-range, it is best to run Audyssey and then turn off Audyssey's Dynamic EQ? This way we still get the level and distance tuned without Audyssey bumping the low frequencies to obtain a flat curve. Sorry if I'm reiterating what you said, just want to make sure I got it. Never thought about that before.

Just checked my settings and I had Dynamic EQ off. My center is cut at 60hz and L/R set to full. No sub as I'm in an apt... as it is I have to turn the bass down -10db on my Onkyo at night so neighbors don't complain lol. Love these speakers. Just listened to the new Daft Punk album which you can listen to for free on itunes and it sounded blissful.

[davef]

So if we want to run the Sierra-1 full-range, it is best to run Audyssey and then turn off Audyssey's Dynamic EQ? This way we still get the level and distance tuned without Audyssey bumping the low frequencies to obtain a flat curve. Sorry if I'm reiterating what you said, just want to make sure I got it. Never thought about that before.

That is not quite right. Audyssey's dynamic EQ is different than the standard EQ... Dynamic EQ is an additional feature that is similar to what the old "loudness" control used to do, it changes the frequency response of the system depending on volume level.

If running the Sierra-1 full range, to avoid having Audyssey attempt to flatten the bass response as it would with a true full range speaker, manually set a 40 or 50Hz crossover (even if not using a subwoofer)

[Pianist718]

I am glad someone started this thread ..... here is something I still don't get...

I think that for movies, you should have speakers set to Large and for music, do cross over at whatever 60, 80, 100.

Reasoning. ...... tell me if I got it wrong .........

1. For music .. I get it .... let sub handle the deep bass and don't strain speakers. Plus .. sub may handle it better even at 80hz or 100hz than the speakers.

2. For movies. I always thought that in movies they even call it the LFE (low frequency...) meaning that ... the way sound editors edit movies is they pick and choose what sound should be dropped to the LFE (Sub) and what sound can go to speakers. Thus if we filter out speakers producing 60hz 80hz, we miss on the sound that was meant to be in the movie ... no?? just curious. And even if Sub does pick that sound at 40, 60, 80hz, it's not surround, so does it really reproduce what speakers should have produced?

maybe I am way off here, but that was my understanding.

[Kisakuku]

I am glad someone started this thread ..... here is something I still don't get...

I think that for movies, you should have speakers set to Large and for music, do cross over at whatever 60, 80, 100.

Reasoning. ...... tell me if I got it wrong .........

1. For music .. I get it .... let sub handle the deep bass and don't strain speakers. Plus .. sub may handle it better even at 80hz or 100hz than the speakers.

2. For movies. I always thought that in movies they even call it the LFE (low frequency...) meaning that ... the way sound editors edit movies is they pick and choose what sound should be dropped to the LFE (Sub) and what sound can go to speakers. Thus if we filter out speakers producing 60hz 80hz, we miss on the sound that was meant to be in the movie ... no?? just curious. And even if Sub does pick that sound at 40, 60, 80hz, it's not surround, so does it really reproduce what speakers should have produced?

maybe I am way off here, but that was my understanding.

While there is some merit in running capable speakers as full range for music, for HT applications they should absolutely be set to small. Bass management in your receiver will redirect all low frequencies below crossover point from satellite channels to the subwoofer, so nothing will be lost. If the crossover is set at or below 80Hz, there shouldn't be a concern about bass "soundstage" being "compressed" and redirected to the subwoofer, since low frequencies are perceived as omnidirectional.

[cynan]

I think this whole debate largely hinges on room size and listening levels.

If you are listening in a smaller room (eg, not much more than 1000-1500 cubic feet or less) at moderate listening levels (ie, 90 db or less), then it shouldn't really matter so much as the extra strain Audyssey puts on the lower range will not be of sufficient power to damage anything. In fact, in such conditions with smaller rooms, with Sierras placed closer to a wall, the in-room base response might be sufficient that Audyssey wouldn't event be substantially boosting bass with Sierras set to large. In larger rooms/louder levels, though, all bets are off.

As far as whether setting speakers to "small" results in missing bass with home theater - this depends on your receiver and how it is set up. On most I've seen, you can assign whether the subwoofer receives LFE only or LFE + base from other channels. Also, on some receivers, if a subwoofer is detected, setting the speakers to "small" might result in automatically directing frequencies below the crossover point to the sub. I'm not sure that these settings are uniform across all receiver brands/audyseey implementations.

[Kisakuku]

As far as whether setting speakers to "small" results in missing bass with home theater - this depends on your receiver and how it is set up. On most I've seen, you can assign whether the subwoofer receives LFE only or LFE + base from other channels. Also, on some receivers, if a subwoofer is detected, setting the speakers to "small" might result in automatically directing frequencies below the crossover point to the sub. I'm not sure that these settings are uniform across all receiver brands/audyseey implementations.

That's not how "LFE + main" setting works. If selected and if fronts are set to large, it results in frequencies below crossover point of front channels to be directed both to those channels and to the subwoofer, which give you "double" bass. If the fronts are set to small, the subwoofer always reproduces frequencies below their crossover point regardless of the LFE / LFE + main setting. No combination of settings will result in the low frequencies for the fronts being "lost".

[cynan]

That's not how "LFE + main" setting works. If selected and if fronts are set to large, it results in frequencies below crossover point of front channels to be directed both to those channels and to the subwoofer, which give you "double" bass. If the fronts are set to small, the subwoofer always reproduces frequencies below their crossover point regardless of the LFE / LFE + main setting. No combination of settings will result in the low frequencies for the fronts being "lost".


Yes. You are correct. Thank you for the clarification. I did not mean to imply that there is a setting on an AVR that results in loosing all bass - I was replying to the above poster - but yes, that is sort of how what I wrote reads. Also, I was not sure if all AVRs worked this way...

Whatever the case, "double bass" or "LFE + MAIN" should be avoided at all costs - it will just result in muddier sounding bass with the mains and the subs fighting over the same signal.

[Kisakuku]

Yes. You are correct. Thank you for the clarification. I did not mean to imply that there is a setting on an AVR that results in loosing all bass - I was replying to the above poster - but yes, that is sort of how what I wrote reads. Also, I was not sure if all AVRs worked this way...

Whatever the case, "double bass" or "LFE + MAIN" should be avoided at all costs - it will just result in muddier sounding bass with the mains and the subs fighting over the same signal.

Turns out we were both saying the same thing all along. And yes, there's really no good reason for LFE+main.

As a side note, a lot of Audyssey questions and misconceptions that come up on this forum could easily be clarified just by reading the Audyssey FAQ on AVS.

[noteworthy]

I have a Denon AVR-1712. I am not using a sub. Should I use a crossover frequency, particularly with movies, to avoid damaging my Sierra-1s? Currently I am trying my Sierras set to Small with a crossover frequency of 60Hz. Is there a way to set them to Large and still use a crossover frequency? I have not run Audyssey.

[davef]

I have a Denon AVR-1712. I am not using a sub. Should I use a crossover frequency, particularly with movies, to avoid damaging my Sierra-1s? Currently I am trying my Sierras set to Small with a crossover frequency of 60Hz. Is there a way to set them to Large and still use a crossover frequency? I have not run Audyssey.

If you have not run Audyssey, there should be no issues running the Sierra-1 full range. It is only when using room equalization in combination with running the Sierra-1 (or any non full-range speaker) that you can run into problems as Audyssey will boost the low end output.

[noteworthy]

Dave,

Thanks for the info. The Audyssey subject can get confusing. I'll run the Sierras full range until I run Audyssey then.